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Posted: 7/29/2010 6:27:12 PM EDT
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picked up some interesting bb's in a garage sale this afternoon. the package was marked 223 Berger VLD's 103gr....
cant find this bullet on Bergers website so am wondering what i happened upon..???.. 
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Those are 6mm bullets. |
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sent a note to Walt Berger asking about them and here's his response...
You will not find any load data for the 103 grain 0.224 bullet. Yes we did make a few many years ago for the military along with other weights and the bullet that ended up from this was our current 90 grain VLD bullet and the 103 might have been the heaviest we made. Don't try shooting them as I think it will take a 1-6 twist or faster to stabilize them.
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Most people have had trouble shooting the 90's, so I bet you're in trouble if you think these will shoot. Northern Competion sell 6.5 twist barrels for people shooting 90 grain .224" bullet. It will probably (maybe) shoot the 103's.
They are a collectors item at best. A great conversation piece. Try to post a picture with them next to a Sierra 80 or 77. |
i guess i'll find out tomorrow as my curiosity got the best of me so i loaded some up to try in a bolt gun and a 1x7 twist LMT barrel on an AR. i was surprised they could be loaded to magazine length but they did. also noted how much shorter they are than 75gr VLDs so after weighing some to confirm they were 103gr (they were) i cut one open and the things are composed of some type of powder under the jacket...tungsten perhaps? heck if i know.....
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Quoted: here u go.... from left to right....loaded cartridge to mag length with 103gr Berger, 103gr Berger bullet, 75gr VLD Berger, 60 VMAX http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx316/burnsome123/DSC01958.jpg burnsome... Looks to me the 75 gr Berger VLD is a few thousandths longer than the 103. I bet a 1/7 twist will stabilize it. I wouldn't be surprised to learn those 103's have tungsten cores. I seem to remember our very own B&T ammo lab had some very positive test results with some 100 gr .224" projectiles, but they wouldn't/couldn't reveal the manufacturer. I wonder if these might be the same.. A 1/7 twist .22-250 with a chrome bore and chamber would be the heat for quite a few .224" projectiles on the market. Thanks for the pics! |
well, i loaded a few up late last night (early this am actually) with some benchmark powder (not really knowing what i was doing) and fired these 5 shots at 30 yards out of my old workhorse savage 110. it has a 20-inch barrel, 1x9 twist and has a tasco 3x9 scope on it....
i was pretty pleased with that so moved on out to a hundred and fired a few more..... 
i figured that was acceptable accuracy since i just threw about 23grs of benchmark in a few win cases and fired away. muzzle velocity out of the 20-inch barrel averaged 2250-2300fps. i think some N140 powder would do just fine once i figure out some powder charges, etc.... also fired about 20 out of my full auto M4 and they cycled the action with acceptable accuracy. it sports a 1x7 twist LMT barreled upper. all in all a pretty good day of testing. i wonder what the hell these bb's might be good for? i should have pinged some metal plates and see how that tungsten core reacts with steel... 
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They're powdered tungsten core bullets. The 103's I shot had pretty good accuracy. The 87 grain bullet was awesome, those are the same length as a 69 grain bullet.
Try a slower gunpowder such as H4831SC. VV N140 and Benchmark are pretty fast for that bullet, so be careful. I think I was using charge weights around 23 grains of H4831 with the 103's and I don't think I recorded the charge. |
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I would love to have a few thousand of those and work up a subsonic load.
i guess that would make a quiet hammer for sure... i did fire a few thru my AR with suppressor this afternoon and they were pretty quiet. still wondering why i didnt try any out on steel....maybe tomorrow.... |
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Quoted:
They're powdered tungsten core bullets. The 103's I shot had pretty good accuracy. The 87 grain bullet was awesome, those are the same length as a 69 grain bullet. Try a slower gunpowder such as H4831SC. VV N140 and Benchmark are pretty fast for that bullet, so be careful. I think I was using charge weights around 23 grains of H4831 with the 103's and I don't think I recorded the charge. Is N-140 really a fast powder, from what I have seen it's a good bit slower than Benchmark(I use allot of Benchmark) and just slower than or as slow as Varget which I think would be quite good with the 103's but maybe on the bulky side, any way I've never used N-140 but am planing on getting some N-140 or N-135 for 69, 75, 77gr bullets for target shooting and wanted to make sure it's as slow as VV list it as. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
They're powdered tungsten core bullets. The 103's I shot had pretty good accuracy. The 87 grain bullet was awesome, those are the same length as a 69 grain bullet. Try a slower gunpowder such as H4831SC. VV N140 and Benchmark are pretty fast for that bullet, so be careful. I think I was using charge weights around 23 grains of H4831 with the 103's and I don't think I recorded the charge. Is N-140 really a fast powder, from what I have seen it's a good bit slower than Benchmark(I use allot of Benchmark) and just slower than or as slow as Varget which I think would be quite good with the 103's but maybe on the bulky side, any way I've never used N-140 but am planing on getting some N-140 or N-135 for 69, 75, 77gr bullets for target shooting and wanted to make sure it's as slow as VV list it as. "Fast" is relative. |
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N-140, Varget, RE-15 and IMR-4064 are very close to each other as far as burn rate goes.
I'm amazed that those bullets are no longer than the 75 grain VLD's. Obviously your 1/9 will stabilze them, a 1/8 or 1/7 will prbably give an added measure in that regard. Take a look at N-150, N-540 and N-550 powders. |
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I'm amazed that those bullets are no longer than the 75 grain VLD's.
Obviously your 1/9 will stabilze them, a 1/8 or 1/7 will prbably give an added measure in that regard. yeah its pretty cool. i just picked up a schneider s/s heavy barrel in 1x8 that i'm getting chambered to put on the savage rifle i shot the above groups with. once i find a load that shoots in it these will be fun to experiment with. i want to keep a few but am interested in selling most of them. anybody got a clue what they might be "worth"?... |
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Well, tell us the charge weight. "Some" ain't gettin' it.
some of dis and some of dat...ask and ye shall receive ... 23.5gr N140. Fired 35 rounds this afternoon and MV's averaged 2310fps. out of 20-inch bbl. 10-shot groups were a tad under an inch with Savage 1x9 bolt gun and 3x9 scope. no pressure signs on the brass or primers. shoots good.-about as good as any other load the rifle is capable of shooting well. have a schneider barrel to chamber and put on the gun and i'll shoot a lot better. shot some steel targets and they hit hard... similar results yesterday shooting 23gr Benchmark i'd post some pictures but i went off from the range and left my camera up there after taking pics of the groups. will post 'em when i get my camera back... |
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wish i had a 22-250 with a tight twist barrel to try 'em out on....i bet if they stabilize they'd be hell on coyotes .....or if they do stabilize in a 223 i wonder if they would have any subsonic applications? Thinking the same thing, except for match shooting. Any info on the BC? |
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DRT in Missouri is producing powdered tungsten core bullets. They bought the Powell River Labs business 4 or 5 years ago.
http://www.drtammo.com/ The bullets I shot came from PRL back when my rifle building buddy was tuning Bubba Beall's bikes in trade for bullets. We were shooting them through my 24 inch gun to see how much speed we could get. My recollection was in the 2350 to 2400 fps range with the 103's and H4831SC, and I don't recall what I measured with the 87's except that it was pretty darn good, almost as fast as I could get with 80 grain Bergers and MK's. I would like to have a 5 gallon bucket full of those 87 grain bullets. |
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Quoted:
picked up some interesting bb's in a garage sale this afternoon. the package was marked 223 Berger VLD's 103gr.... cant find this bullet on Bergers website so am wondering what i happened upon..???.. I want to know how everyone goes to these "garage sales". I go and all I see is a bunch of worthless old lady crap...........
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DRT in Missouri is producing powdered tungsten core bullets. They bought the Powell River Labs business 4 or 5 years ago.
http://www.drtammo.com/ The bullets I shot came from PRL back when my rifle building buddy was tuning Bubba Beall's bikes in trade for bullets. We were shooting them through my 24 inch gun to see how much speed we could get. My recollection was in the 2350 to 2400 fps range with the 103's and H4831SC, and I don't recall what I measured with the 87's except that it was pretty darn good, almost as fast as I could get with 80 grain Bergers and MK's. I would like to have a 5 gallon bucket full of those 87 grain bullets. thanks for the insight into the one's you were shooting and the MV's with corresponding powder info. interesting that DRT only sells the 223 in a 79gr pill. i wonder why they dont pick up the 87's or 103's? their 79's aint cheap! |
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If you're going to use them in a 5.56 then I'd recommend VV N540.
The beauty of the short-heavy tungsten core frangibles is due to their weight (vice length) you can shoot them from standard-twist barrels and they will cut through wind really well (less windage correction required). Don't push them too fast with the thinner J4 jackets, though. They work well in 22-250 and Hornets for coyotes. You could probably use them for deer as well. |
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Quoted:
DRT in Missouri is producing powdered tungsten core bullets. They bought the Powell River Labs business 4 or 5 years ago.
http://www.drtammo.com/ The bullets I shot came from PRL back when my rifle building buddy was tuning Bubba Beall's bikes in trade for bullets. We were shooting them through my 24 inch gun to see how much speed we could get. My recollection was in the 2350 to 2400 fps range with the 103's and H4831SC, and I don't recall what I measured with the 87's except that it was pretty darn good, almost as fast as I could get with 80 grain Bergers and MK's. I would like to have a 5 gallon bucket full of those 87 grain bullets. thanks for the insight into the one's you were shooting and the MV's with corresponding powder info. interesting that DRT only sells the 223 in a 79gr pill. i wonder why they dont pick up the 87's or 103's? their 79's aint cheap! I could buy the 87 grain bullets from PRL for $2 each. The last time I looked at DRT's prices it didn't take too long to decide I didn't need theirs, either. I could probably bum or trade for a few, but only enough to fiddle with, maybe a magazine full. |
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They work well in 22-250 and Hornets for coyotes. You could probably use them for deer as well.
interesting....will be loading some more up Friday for the weekend . my sister has quite a few coyotes over her way and i'm going to try to tag one with one of these 103's. will report results if successful, plus retrieve my camera from last weekends range use and post results.. |
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