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The 380ACP Reloading Project Diaries - Finished! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/25/2009 7:46:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AssaultRifler][Edited]
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Decided it's time to reload 380ACP and I'll be doing it on the 550B. I'll be doing this from scratch, working up and then test firing loads then settling on the load I want. Then I'll crank them out in massive quantities. If you ever find yourself with a bunch of pistol components and a Dillon 550B and wondered what it takes to make ammo, read and find out  Part 1 - Gathering the components First thing I did was gather all my small primer pickup tubes and filled them up, I had 11 in all  Next thing I did was go and raid my bullet hoard for 380ACP projectiles. I found some, they were still packaged the way I got 'em off EE 2-3 years ago  I filled the bullet tray of the 550 with some  And put some of the rest in a container and left the ones that came in the case in the case.   That's a lot of bullets. I wondered for a second if I had enough brass, primers, and powder to load them all. Then I realized what a silly question  Before I decide on a load I have to know what I had bullet wise, I weighed a couple and they were 95 grain FMJ's. The scale says 94.6 grains. Yeah, you'll find that bullets hardly weigh their stated weight exactly. Their weight will vary.  |
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Part 2 - Making test loads OK, I have 95 grain projectiles and I use Accurate Arms powder. So I went to http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf and found this entry: No.5 95 SIE FMJ 4.3 784 4.8 891 14,000 0.945 I have AA#5. So I decided to make the follow test loads: 10 x 4.3 grains AA#5 10 x 4.5 grains AA#5 10 x 4.7 grains AA#5 10 x 4.8 grains AA#5 The next step was to convert the 550 over to 380ACP Initially it was like this:  No shell plate, no dies in the toolhead. So I put the 380ACP shell plate, locator buttons on it. Then the 380ACP toolhead. I cleaned the dies for good measure, lubed the main ram, made sure the small primer feed system was working. At this point I kept the machine dry: no primers no powder  The sizing die was already adjusted from the last time I did 380. So I didn't have to do anything special at station 1. Next step was to adjust the case mouth belling, that's done at station 2 with the powder funnel. It was set from the last reloading session but I needed to adjust it some. This is always a minor PITA. Anyway, when I had enough bell, I moved on to station 3 and seated a bullet in a sized but unprimed and uncharged case My goal at this point is to get the cartridge OAL adjusted. From another reloading manual the min cartridge OAL is 0.940" and the max is 0.984". I figured somewhere halfway, around 0.960" would be perfect. After twiddling with it I got it at .962" and figured it was close enough and locked down the die rings. Note you can see the case mouth belling in this pic. It wont be removed until the case is taper crimped  Here's the dummy round taper crimped  Here's the dummy round in the case gage being checked  Next step was to fill the priming feed system with small pistol primers which was easy since I already filled the tubes. Then I calibrated the powder measure to drop 4.3 grains of AA#5 The first live round is always exciting and should be checked  Looks good. I finished the other 9 with the 4.3 grain charge  Then I did 10 rounds of 4.3, 4.5, 4.7, and 4.8 grains  I marked the cases in case I dropped the box. My method is the more marks on a case the more powder it has. the 4.3 grain loads have no marks, the 4.5 have one ticky mark, the 4.7 have 2 ticky marks, the 4.8 grain loads have an "X" That's it for now, nothing more I can do until I test fire the loads |
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Part 3 - Range Session Went to the range this morning to try the new reloads. A little range session planning is in order here. You don't want to just show up, pop off a few rounds, then head back to the reloading bench. You need a methodology that will allow you to determine what powder charge you're going to settle on. The method I follow is: 1) Warm up by shooting some known good ammunition. This gets you in the groove and ensures the gun is in good working order. If you just started popping off your test loads and you get a jam, is it the gun or the loads? If your groups suck is it because the loads suck or you're just a bit rusty? Warming up helps in both regards. 2) Clean up the brass from the warm up session 3) Shoot the test loads with the lowest powder charge first at a target, then the ones with the next higher powder charge, and so on until you've shot all your test loads. Before moving on to the the loads with the next higher powder charge, retrieve the brass from the previous test loads. Examine them for signs of over pressure, if you see any then STOP! If you have any test loads left you'll have to pull the bullets and dump the powder. 4) When it's all done, look at the target, which powder charge gave you the tightest group and still cycled the gun? That's the load you want to crank out in quantity. Here's how my session went. I brought two guns and went through the methodology for both. The guns are a Sig 230 and a Beretta 84F. I bring my magazines already loaded to the range so I don't have to waste time loading them at the range. I brought a cheap cigar, a JR alternative.  Testing with the Sig 230 I set up the target for the practice session with the Sig 230. The target was at 7 yards  Then I practiced away. Some groups are better than others, The one in the middle kicks butt. Practice makes perfect!  Next I slapped on a new target, with a bullseye to shoot at for each powder charge. I went through the test loads starting with the 4.3 grain load and worked up until I finished them all. Here's the results:  Here's the brass  All the brass looked ok, no signs of over pressure. All rounds cycled perfectly, no jams. Based on the results so far I'm liking the 4.7 grain loads. I already lost 2 pieces of brass to the Brass Gods. I always let the Brass Gods take what they want. They're firm but fair. Testing with the Beretta 84F I went through the same process with the 84F that I did with the Sig. Started out by popping off some mags to get warmed up.  It started to rain. The rain dampened my target, but not my spirits. I continued on.  I shot away at 4 different bullseyes, 1 for each powder charge.  I like the 4.7 grain charge with the Beretta 84F as well  And the brass is looking OK as well. Overall the Brass Gods demanded a sacrifice of 4 pieces of brass from me.  That settles it, my load is going to be 4.7 grains of AA#5  Hopefully this is a good example of how to work up and ultimately choose a load. There's no substitute for doing your homework. Don't just pick a load from a book or somewhere you found online and then crank out a bunch of rounds. Use other people's data to verify your own findings not as a way to weasel out of working up the loads yourself. |
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Part 4 - Production I calibrated the powder measure to toss 4.7 grains of AA#5 and methodically cranked out round after round. Here's what my current work environment looks like. The motor oil is straight 30 weight and used to lube the ram on the 550B. Note the new to me Dillon press mounted wrench set. It saves a lot of time trying to find the right allen wrench.  I ran out of the initial 1100 primers I had loaded up in the tubes and here's the result so far. I won't consider these "done" until I check them with a case gage, but I'll do that after loading up all the projectiles.  I raided my primer stash and got another 3K out ready for action!  I'm up to 1900 or so now, that's a lot of cranking! No big issues. I found a 1/2 dozen 9mm cases in my 380 brass stash, as well as a 9x19 Mak case. They don't fit in the 380ACP resizing die so they're caught immediately. The 550B is staying relatively clean powder dribbling wise, but I get about 5 spent primers out of every 100 that miss the primer catch bin and end up on the table top, floor, etc.  Here's a closeup, suitable for reloading porn  Finished! I cranked out the final round Saturday sometime. Ended up with about 2900 or so since I shot some at the range last week. Here's the final batch  Like I said I don't consider them "done" until every round is checked with a case gage. It's a good habit to get into and the results pay off. It takes a while but it makes your reloads virtually 100% reliable. Here's what I found:  The 2 on the left were sized and primed cases, but case mouths not belled. I can only surmise I dropped these into the output bin along with some finished rounds and didn't notice. 380ACP cases are tiny and my fingers and big and fat, they're hard to hold on to! Third from the left is a 32ACP case that thought it'd be funny to sneak into my 380ACP brass stash. Who's laughing now? He looks like an idiot! Next 2 are missing the primer The last 4 failed to seat all the way in the case gage, mostly due to dinged up rims. I pulled all the bullets and made 7 good rounds with the salvaged projectiles. I'm so cheap I even saved the live decapped primers See you at the range |
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I reloaded .380's back in the 1970's for a Walther PPK/S and a Browning (the only fixed breech .380) Accuracy and reliability were excellent and Bullseye was my powder of choice then. Pressure is an issue because of the extremely limited volume of the case. Be very careful about bullet setback as pressures can go wild. I can see in your pictures that your case sizing appears to be very good and the case walls appear to be narrower behind the bullet, a light crimp holds better than a massive inversion of the case mouth... a second word to the wise. Now as to your approach for this post: Bravo !!! |
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/AccurizedRifle.jpg
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Biggest issue with loading .380 is that data is all over the freaking place, some manuals max loads are below other manual's MAX.
I've had ok luck with W231, but some of the manuals loads are really conservative, in this case conservative means 2 tenths of a grain difference. |
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Originally Posted By NVGdude:
Biggest issue with loading .380 is that data is all over the freaking place, some manuals max loads are below other manual's MAX. I've had ok luck with W231, but some of the manuals loads are really conservative, in this case conservative means 2 tenths of a grain difference. You mean some manuals max loads are below another's minimum? I use Win 231 for .380 most of the time, about 3.1 grains for 95 grain bullet. Some manuals say 3.2 is the max, some say it's the starting load. YMMV, but it shoots fine out of my PPK, and recoils about the same as the Federal 90gr Hydrashok loads, so it's not harsh at all. |
| I reload .380 using 3.1Gr of Hodgdon Universal and 100Gr Berry's plated bullets. Both my Llama IIIA and Kel-Tec shoots good with that combo. My reloads are just for range use so I keep mine light. I was amazed at all the different reloading data for .380, its all over the place. I use Hodgdons data since that's what brand powder I am using. |
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I reload .380acp for my LCP (for range use, as this is the Peoples Republik of New Jerseystan, where the only people that carry are jersey cops and the bad guys.
I use Roger's Better Bullets (really hard lead) 95gr LRN over a trickled charge of 2.9gr Hodgdon Titegroup for an average 851fps. A Lee Factory crimp finishes the job. It's a snappy load in that little pistol, and pretty damn accurate at 15yds considering the lack of a front sight on the LCP. |
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Originally Posted By njJoniGuy:
I reload .380acp for my LCP (for range use, as this is the Peoples Republik of New Jerseystan, where the only people that carry are jersey cops and the bad guys. I use Roger's Better Bullets (really hard lead) 95gr LRN over a trickled charge of 2.9gr Hodgdon Titegroup for an average 851fps. A Lee Factory crimp finishes the job. It's a snappy load in that little pistol, and pretty damn accurate at 15yds considering the lack of a rear sight on the LCP. Same bullets I use but I use Unique powder. |
There's hope with a scope! .308 holes make invisible souls.
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Range session post is another winner.
Our methods are very similar for load testing. I give you extra credit for not letting a little rain stop such important work. We have a saying in Washington, "we're going fishing/hunting/shooting rain or shine". |
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Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Great job, and nice writeup.
I just so happened to have done the same thing over the last couple of weekends. Finally got ahold of some .380ACP dies, and set up my 550B. 95gr FMJ's like yours (look the same - mine were Remingtons). I went with 4.0gr of Unique with a Winchester SP primer. Loaded up a few and tested them over the weekend, and was quite happy with them. Cranked out 260 of them yesterday, until I ran out of bullets. Darn shortages! |
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Originally Posted By 308Sako:
I reloaded .380's back in the 1970's for a Walther PPK/S and a Browning (the only fixed breech .380) Be very careful about bullet setback as pressures can go wild. I can see in your pictures that your case sizing appears to be very good and the case walls appear to be narrower behind the bullet, a light crimp holds better than a massive inversion of the case mouth... a second word to the wise. Bravo !!! Fixed breach or locked breach designs are now used on the Ruger and Kel Tec .380s these days; anyone know if the old Colt Pony .380 also used a locked breach? The .380 case is quite tough. In a locked breach design, the case can handle FAR hotter loads than in the little blow-back guns - some of which are over 100 years old now (hence, published load data is made appropriate for 100+ year old antiques). |
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Something's funny here. That press is more an aqua than Dillon blue. Are you sure you didn't get a Dirron? Are the instructions in pigden Engrish? Your range technique is pretty much like mine. I do use a chronometer, and I fire off some WWB first to get rid of any lube in the barrel. I also pick up my groups as I finish them to let the pistol cool somewhat. BTW, that group in the upper left hand corner (Sig) looks good too. |
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Originally Posted By callgood: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/toyotatacoma03/reload2/380Project/Dillon380ACPProject26.jpg Something's funny here. The funky aqua blue is from my Sony Cybershit 85 camera. Look at Part 2 - Making test loads and the first 2 pics, the first one without the flash is normal looking, the second one with the flash is goofy. Sharp eye!  |
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Your camera's white balance is off-should be an option to reset it or have it automatically adjusted.
I'm looking at running up some .380s in the near-term future. Thanks for the tutorial. Looks really good. Any idea who made those projectiles? Just curious. |
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: Any idea who made those projectiles? Just curious. Seller had no idea on the brand, claimed there was 3167 Found the EE post in the archives http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=7&f=114&t=446368 |
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Originally Posted By CBR900:
Fixed breach or locked breach designs are now used on the Ruger and Kel Tec .380s these days; anyone know if the old Colt Pony .380 also used a locked breach? The Colt Pony was the DAO version of the Mustang, yes it was locked breach same as the Mustang, Mustang Pocketlite, and .380 Government. |
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That's a lot of bullets. I wondered for a second if I had enough brass, primers, and powder to load them all. Then I realized what
a silly question 
I'll be working up a new load in 9mm for 124gr plated bullets soon. Your post motivated me to get started.
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Waterboard 'em.
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Here is a thread about what happens when you accidentally load a .380 case with a 9mm load using a 124 grn Jacketed montana gold bullet and fire it out of a 9mm handgun:
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85685 (apparently it worked just fine. The .380 case is quite strong. The weakness comes from the older, antique blow-back action guns out there). |
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Originally Posted By CBR900:
Here is a thread about what happens when you accidentally load a .380 case with a 9mm load using a 124 grn Jacketed montana gold bullet and fire it out of a 9mm handgun: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85685 (apparently it worked just fine. The .380 case is quite strong. The weakness comes from the older, antique blow-back action guns out there). I have actually loaded a 147gr Zero bullet into a .380 case. I did not fire it, as I caught it on final inspection before it went into an ammo box. Even without significant crimp... the bullet was not loose at all. I would guess it would have loaded and fired just fine in my G19 or G17. |
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Nice job! I ordered a .380 crimp die from Dillon last week. I will have to swap out a powder measure, but otherwise the toolhead is ready to go.
Thanks for taking the time to post all this info. Rick |
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Originally Posted By kyreb: Nice job! I ordered a .380 crimp die from Dillon last week. I will have to swap out a powder measure, but otherwise the toolhead is ready to go. Thanks for taking the time to post all this info. Rick Good thing about the 380 on a Dillon: it uses the same small priming system as .223 and the same shell plate and the same locator buttons It uses the same powder funnel as 9mm The sizing die is different than the 9mm, and I'm guessing the taper crimp die as well. Not sure about the seater |
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"All the brass looked ok, no signs of over pressure. All rounds cycled perfectly, no jams. Based on the results so far I'm liking the 4.7 grain loads. I already lost 2 pieces of brass to the Brass Gods. I always let the Brass Gods take what they want. They're firm but fair.
BRASS GODS. LOVE IT!!!
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: Well done, great wrap up. That's about a 1 year supply? Call it a dozen 380 range sessions, sometimes they come in spurts, other times it's a while between 380 sessions. |
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| Fantastic read! Doing a little research on reloading, some of the different types of ammo are harder to find than I'd like in my home town =) Thanks! |
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Good write up.
I just wish more people would read "other threads" that may not sound like "their current problem." I figure, that they could probably learn the "lessons" of TESTING. So next time, MAYBE they won't have to ask.......... "I'm just beginning to reload whatever caliber. How should I start? And, what will be the BEST load?" Aloha, Mark |
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Thanks for all the kind words. That was a fun project. 12 gauge will be my next reloading project, running way low on shotshells  |
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Excellent write up indeed! Thanks.
I've been loading for the LCP, unsized 105 SWC cast from range lead using a Lee six cavity mold and lubed with Liquid Alox. They are seated so the front shoulder is just a few thousandths in front of the case mouth. Powder is 2.2 gr of Win 231. (small rifle primers won't go boom reliably in the LCP) They look like cycling would be impossible but they cycle 100% and are very accurate, well accurate enough to hit a torso sized plate 4 out of 6 at 50 yards without trying seriously. The press is a Dillon 550B. There is one problem, the tarnished .380 brass is very hard to find. |
The 380ACP Reloading Project Diaries - Finished! (Page 1 of 2)
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