Armory Sponsor
Posted: 12/4/2008 8:28:21 AM EDT
|
Well, I am sending in my GSG5 to Ray Caton at ATI who is the head of the repair department. From the moment I took the thing out of the box it was having feeding issues. I have tried 4 different mags through my GSG and it still fails. I am having issues with the bolt not going into battery because of extractor issues. I am getting a lot of light strikings on the rims. A lot of times it will rack a round into the chamber but it will pull a second round out of the mag and that round stops the bolt from going all the way into battery by sitting in the way of the bolt.
Ray tells me from how I am explaining it to him that my ejector is having issues since they are pressed in and not riveted. He said out of the 28,000 GSG's in the U.S. that about 70 or so have had this problem I am currently undergoing. He also says that anyone and everyone who owns a GSG will at some point be sending their rifle back to him and have it riveted in place since he says this is a major flaw in the design the Germans will not fix on their end. He said he brought it up to GSG executives and they will not budge on riveting them in since they apparently say they are not having many come back in Germany with this problem. He also said if for some reason it is not the extractor that he will still rivet it in place since he would be seeing my rifle again if this was not fixed. So, today is the day I say goodbye for a few to my beloved GSG in hopes of getting it fixed.  If I get it back and it fails again then I am going to give it the driveway test
|
|
Quoted:
Well, I am sending in my GSG5 to Ray Canton at ATI who is the head of the repair department. From the moment I took the thing out of the box it was having feeding issues. I have tried 4 different mags through my GSG and it still fails. I am having issues with the bolt not going into battery because of extractor issues. I am getting a lot of light strikings on the rims. A lot of times it will rack a round into the chamber but it will pull a second round out of the mag and that round stops the bolt from going all the way into battery by sitting in the way of the bolt. Ray tells me from how I am explaining it to him that my ejector is having issues since they are pressed in and not riveted. He said out of the 28,000 GSG's in the U.S. that about 70 or so have had this problem I am currently undergoing. He also says that anyone and everyone who owns a GSG will at some point be sending their rifle back to him and have it riveted in place since he says this is a major flaw in the design the Germans will not fix on their end. He said he brought it up to GSG executives and they will not budge on riveting them in since they apparently say they are not having many come back in Germany with this problem. He also said if for some reason it is not the extractor that he will still rivet it in place since he would be seeing my rifle again if this was not fixed. So, today is the day I say goodbye for a few to my beloved GSG in hopes of getting it fixed. If I get it back and it fails again then I am going to give it the driveway testhe is wrong about everyone sending back in...my has functioned 100 percent flwalessly and im not letting anoyone fuck with it 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I am sending in my GSG5 to Ray Canton at ATI who is the head of the repair department. From the moment I took the thing out of the box it was having feeding issues. I have tried 4 different mags through my GSG and it still fails. I am having issues with the bolt not going into battery because of extractor issues. I am getting a lot of light strikings on the rims. A lot of times it will rack a round into the chamber but it will pull a second round out of the mag and that round stops the bolt from going all the way into battery by sitting in the way of the bolt. Ray tells me from how I am explaining it to him that my ejector is having issues since they are pressed in and not riveted. He said out of the 28,000 GSG's in the U.S. that about 70 or so have had this problem I am currently undergoing. He also says that anyone and everyone who owns a GSG will at some point be sending their rifle back to him and have it riveted in place since he says this is a major flaw in the design the Germans will not fix on their end. He said he brought it up to GSG executives and they will not budge on riveting them in since they apparently say they are not having many come back in Germany with this problem. He also said if for some reason it is not the extractor that he will still rivet it in place since he would be seeing my rifle again if this was not fixed. So, today is the day I say goodbye for a few to my beloved GSG in hopes of getting it fixed. If I get it back and it fails again then I am going to give it the driveway testhe is wrong about everyone sending back in...my has functioned 100 percent flwalessly and im not letting anoyone fuck with it If the info half life was given is correct, there's no way only 70 of this gun out of 22,000 would have this issue. It's a design flaw and design flaws would show bigger failure rate numbers. Either something got lost in translation or the guy was feeding halflife some bad info on some level. |
|
Well if you don't believe it call Ray Canton at ATI youself and he can explain it to you.
He is also going to test fire it to recreate the problem, but as stated before even if it is not the ejector and it's something else he is still going to rivet it in because the pressed in design is garbage. It is a design flaw and when it loosens up it will have to be riveted in to fix it, so it will happen at some point he has guarenteed that. I am just telling you exactly what I was told by him, after all if he is the one doing business with GSG and he is the one going over seas to work out design issues, I have more faith in him at this point than letting some other tool shed lay his hands on it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, I am sending in my GSG5 to Ray Canton at ATI who is the head of the repair department. From the moment I took the thing out of the box it was having feeding issues. I have tried 4 different mags through my GSG and it still fails. I am having issues with the bolt not going into battery because of extractor issues. I am getting a lot of light strikings on the rims. A lot of times it will rack a round into the chamber but it will pull a second round out of the mag and that round stops the bolt from going all the way into battery by sitting in the way of the bolt. Ray tells me from how I am explaining it to him that my ejector is having issues since they are pressed in and not riveted. He said out of the 28,000 GSG's in the U.S. that about 70 or so have had this problem I am currently undergoing. He also says that anyone and everyone who owns a GSG will at some point be sending their rifle back to him and have it riveted in place since he says this is a major flaw in the design the Germans will not fix on their end. He said he brought it up to GSG executives and they will not budge on riveting them in since they apparently say they are not having many come back in Germany with this problem. He also said if for some reason it is not the extractor that he will still rivet it in place since he would be seeing my rifle again if this was not fixed. So, today is the day I say goodbye for a few to my beloved GSG in hopes of getting it fixed. If I get it back and it fails again then I am going to give it the driveway testhe is wrong about everyone sending back in...my has functioned 100 percent flwalessly and im not letting anoyone fuck with it He said everyone will have to send theirs back at some point, he never said everyone has turned them all in already. Call him yourself, you might be surprised what he has to say. |
|
I'll tell you what, in most designs, the ejector is part of the frame or part of the bolt itself.
In saying that you can see that the ejector needs a good amount of structure behind it. I don't see how a pressed in ejector is a good idea, just like screws on a firearm. 
Anyways, I'm kinda mad at you halflife for not wanted to bust it open ourselves to take a look at it. 
If anything, we would have learned how HK does their roller locker action and we would have better understood this issue from the get go. |
|
I figured sending it into Ray would be the best idea after talking to him, there is no saying that the ejector is the only problem because there could be another issue. But the ejector will get riveted in to ensure that I won't ever have a problem with it again.
With finals and all going on right now I don't have the time to fock with this, nor do I really want to fock with it. So the next best thing is to let the head of repairs at ATI fix it, and as I said Ray will make it more than worth my time and expenses, whatever that may be we will find out. I am also mad at you for not bringing up more .223 last time we went up so I could test out your AR. Shame on you....  And shame on you for not selling me your K31, what kind of a friend are you anyhow?
|
|
Quoted:
I figured sending it into Ray would be the best idea after talking to him, there is no saying that the ejector is the only problem because there could be another issue. But the ejector will get riveted in to ensure that I won't ever have a problem with it again. With finals and all going on right now I don't have the time to fock with this, nor do I really want to fock with it. So the next best thing is to let the head of repairs at ATI fix it, and as I said Ray will make it more than worth my time and expenses, whatever that may be we will find out. I am also mad at you for not bringing up more .223 last time we went up so I could test out your AR. Shame on you....  And shame on you for not selling me your K31, what kind of a friend are you anyhow? LOL well having only brass .223 it makes each mag over $12. If I could get my hands on some wolf .223 you can shoot it more, in the meantime, I'm going to slow my roll on my .223 brass. You'll NEVER get my K-31, no one will.
Of course when your Garand gets here we can work something out.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I figured sending it into Ray would be the best idea after talking to him, there is no saying that the ejector is the only problem because there could be another issue. But the ejector will get riveted in to ensure that I won't ever have a problem with it again. With finals and all going on right now I don't have the time to fock with this, nor do I really want to fock with it. So the next best thing is to let the head of repairs at ATI fix it, and as I said Ray will make it more than worth my time and expenses, whatever that may be we will find out. I am also mad at you for not bringing up more .223 last time we went up so I could test out your AR. Shame on you.... And shame on you for not selling me your K31, what kind of a friend are you anyhow?Of course when your Garand gets here we can work something out. Yeah, I will let you shoot it if you give me your K31.... 
|
|
Be prepared to wait. They recieved my GSG-5 three weeks ago. Same exact issue. They still have it.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=41&t=259006 |
|
about that K31..
i found this: "Many collectors of the K31 have removed the butt plate and recovered a small slip of plasticized paper from beneath it. This slip contains the name and address of the Swiss citizen to whom the rifle was issued. In some cases, collectors have used the information to contact the previous owners, and have recounted the details of those encounters on a variety of collector's web forums." |
|
Quoted:
IIRC you ought to be able to stake those ejectors in place with a simple center-punch. There is actually an arm from the right clamshell side that should press it against the left clamshell so if the clamshells get a bit out of spec the ejector can loosen up. I like the way you think, it's rewarding to fix your owns guns. But if rivets are the new answer, I don't think even a stake job is sufficient over the long term. At least that's my thought, maybe I'm wrong. |
|
Surely there is someone who is a member here, like a machinist, engineer, gunsmith or mechanically inclined mad genius, that can come up with a home workshop solution to this problem without having to send the rifle back in. I've read too many good Do-It-Yourself theads here at AR15.com to believe that we can't do it.
|
|
Quoted:
Surely there is someone who is a member here, like a machinist, engineer, gunsmith or mechanically inclined mad genius, that can come up with a home workshop solution to this problem without having to send the rifle back in. I've read too many good Do-It-Yourself theads here at AR15.com to believe that we can't do it. Simple, rivet it yourself, it's not that hard. |
|
Well, considering I just bought the rifle and dumped $500 on it and nobody else has fixed this problem themselves it is always easier to come forward and tell someone to fix it them self. You say it's easy but you have not done this repair yourself, so........
I am not going to be the test dummy for this one. |
|
Well the guys from GSG - meaning the Germans - sent me a new Breach Assembly(with my old serial number engraved on it) and the Ejector is rivited
OF course now the frakking bolt hold open is working in 1-2 out of 5 mags and only 50% of the time with those mags on the positive side ran through 10 mags and had 2 FTFs - one was a dud round the other fired the second time through (federal bulk ammo) will run the mags with CCI next week and see what happens |
|
sounds like one of the fiddly alignment issues i've noticed this gun can have.
i've had mine apart a few times now. lucky me, a lot of loose things. so tonite, i replaced all the torx and posidrives with that kit you can snag. except for the 3 torx INSIDE the carrier group, one of which was most loose, so i took that apart too, and loctited it from the inside out. on assembly, i noticed that my magazine safety was very tight... lubed it, and 50/50... had to basically loosen up the grip nut (which i then loctited), and do a few action resets and wiggle it a bit to "seat it", then tightented all up again. amazingly, "THE SPRING OF DOOM" did not fall out. whoa. so, some 14 screws and bolts later, it's GOT to be pretty tight. i have to wonder why they bothered putting in "nut wells", if they didn't use them in the first place. peculiar. i also loctited the tombstone in, cuz i've repeatedly had that come loose after 400 rounds. oiy. i don't know how you guys with 2000 + rounds have done it. SOOOOOO, while i was in there, and with this thread in mind... yah, it should be relatively easy, especially with a drill press, to throw a nice little hole or two through the ejector bit, and add a rivet, or something. it's pretty tight i think, so a machine screw probably wouldn't do it. now, i'm hoping, with those two clamh shells halves all together tight and freshly torqued and loctited, that it won't pop out, or weaken, but i could seat that happening eventually. i suppose too, other antics. they're going to want to upgrade that. so i think next, a buffer... then some of the solid POF furniture... in the meantime, shoot the snot out of this :) Holo |
|
Quoted:
sounds like one of the fiddly alignment issues i've noticed this gun can have. i've had mine apart a few times now. lucky me, a lot of loose things. so tonite, i replaced all the torx and posidrives with that kit you can snag. except for the 3 torx INSIDE the carrier group, one of which was most loose, so i took that apart too, and loctited it from the inside out. on assembly, i noticed that my magazine safety was very tight... lubed it, and 50/50... had to basically loosen up the grip nut (which i then loctited), and do a few action resets and wiggle it a bit to "seat it", then tightented all up again. amazingly, "THE SPRING OF DOOM" did not fall out. whoa. so, some 14 screws and bolts later, it's GOT to be pretty tight. i have to wonder why they bothered putting in "nut wells", if they didn't use them in the first place. peculiar. i also loctited the tombstone in, cuz i've repeatedly had that come loose after 400 rounds. oiy. i don't know how you guys with 2000 + rounds have done it. SOOOOOO, while i was in there, and with this thread in mind... yah, it should be relatively easy, especially with a drill press, to throw a nice little hole or two through the ejector bit, and add a rivet, or something. it's pretty tight i think, so a machine screw probably wouldn't do it. now, i'm hoping, with those two clamh shells halves all together tight and freshly torqued and loctited, that it won't pop out, or weaken, but i could seat that happening eventually. i suppose too, other antics. they're going to want to upgrade that. so i think next, a buffer... then some of the solid POF furniture... in the meantime, shoot the snot out of this :) Holo What's this "spring of doom" you speak of? Is this just on the GSG or all HK actions? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
... amazingly, "THE SPRING OF DOOM" did not fall out. whoa. ... What's this "spring of doom" you speak of? Is this just on the GSG or all HK actions? dunno about HK actions... however, SPRING. OF. DOOM. when this happened to me the first time, it's how i found this forum, with google. first here: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926237 then here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=41&t=253513 <- sticky topic #3 - Troubleshooting et voila. EVERYONE should read all the stickies top to bottom :) esp the full take down instructions. print and save as a PDF file. print it for reference. print the exploded diagram, and blow that up to 22x18 :) okay, i kid. THEN ya'll should ALSO read all 22 pages of the GSG sub forum :) hahahah. i have. though, i can't keep up to all the replies. impossible! seems like this spring alone has a 1/2 dozen posts on its own, with lots of replies. just answer "#3" to be in the know :) Holo |
|
I called American Tactical again today. They've had my GSG-5 about 3 weeks now. I have not heard from them once (email/phone call) except for a post to my thread I started here about 2 weeks ago.
Their Customer Service Rep. said they sent out a bunch of repaired GSG-5's last Friday. He was not sure if mine was in the bunch. He'll be able to check tomorrow for me and give me a call. We'll see if it's on its way tomorrow. |
|
I recieved a call earlier from ATI and they left a message with my tracking number.
Then today the rifle arrived. Looks like they riveted the extractor to the bolt housing. I won't be able to fire it until after Christmas so I guess we'll see. I was hoping they'd throw in a new mag for me but all that came with the rifle was a hat. |
|
So I spoke with Ray this morning and he fixed my GSG5 by replacing the carrier w/rivet, new extractor and he also re-cut the firing pin to allow more proper strikes.
When speaking with Ray, he said Mike from GSG came over from Germany and saw that ATI had a stockpile of GSG's to fix in regards to the ejector and getting them riveted in. Mike from GSG said they are now going to have the ejectors riveted in from the factory, they obviously saw this as a flaw that needed to be fixed. So for all of you who don't have a riveted in ejector you might as well fix it yourself or send it into ATI because you will have a problem with it sooner or later, GSG says this and ATI. All I can say is that ATI's customer service was stellar, and Ray Caton is the man!!!! |
|
I had this problem on my first range trip. I ended up using some JBWeld to hold the ejector in place, has been working fine since. http://archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=41&t=244990 |
|
Quoted:
Can I send them just the carrier? I don't see a need for them to have the whole rifle. Yes you can, but if the ejector is not the sole problem then you will have to send it back in. The extractor can be a problem too alongside the ejector. Ray said this morning that he is waiting on new carriers and other parts from GSG that he ordered a month ago because he used the last parts he had on hand to fix my rifle. |
|
FYI. I just saw the pic of the riveted ejector that's been posted in the stickies. I then went to check the ejector on my GSG-5L, purchased NIB from a dealer in MN last week. Turns out my new rifle has the riveted ejector already. My dealer just got these rifles in stock about two weeks ago. I wonder if Ray is adding the rivets as the new rifles are moving through ATI to local dealers or whether GSG manufactured it this way and the newest rifles coming into the country have the updated ejector rivet already.
|
|
Quoted:
FYI. I just saw the pic of the riveted ejector that's been posted in the stickies. I then went to check the ejector on my GSG-5L, purchased NIB from a dealer in MN last week. Turns out my new rifle has the riveted ejector already. My dealer just got these rifles in stock about two weeks ago. I wonder if Ray is adding the rivets as the new rifles are moving through ATI to local dealers or whether GSG manufactured it this way and the newest rifles coming into the country have the updated ejector rivet already. I had already stated in my last post that GSG was producing them now with the riveted in ejectors. Ray is only fixing the GSG's that have come into the states before the flaw was addressed. |
|
Quoted:
FYI. I just saw the pic of the riveted ejector that's been posted in the stickies. I then went to check the ejector on my GSG-5L, purchased NIB from a dealer in MN last week. Turns out my new rifle has the riveted ejector already. My dealer just got these rifles in stock about two weeks ago. I wonder if Ray is adding the rivets as the new rifles are moving through ATI to local dealers or whether GSG manufactured it this way and the newest rifles coming into the country have the updated ejector rivet already. Which store? Was it Gunstop? I bought my GSG-5 there on Saturday 12/06. My rifle came with the ejector riveted as well. |
|
Quoted: Hi guys can you show us some pics of this fix. We are not so lucky here with gunsmiths etc so most of the work we need to do ourselves. Thanks http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=41&t=253513&page=2 |
|
fyi, ray SENT me the breech face with the riveted ejector in it 3 months ago. He had mine back 3 times for the problem, and so far I have put more rounds through it than I can count with the new one.
and I would not question ray, he has been up front with me, but my BRAND NEW TODAY Gsg-5 CAME WITH the riveted ejector. |
|
Ive had ejector issues too. 1st gen gun. Fixed it to a reliable extent but It still needs more work imo.
*READ* Worse problem Ive encountered is that my extractor claw is to long or wide. My barrel has a small gash starting to form inside its extractor notch. It will ruin a barrel and cause it to split inside the chambers bore. Ive seen pictures of one that was ran till she split. So Im not the only one. Aboslutely have to send your gun to GSG for repairs or replacment if this happens. Barrel literaly splits in half. The little guns can tear themselves aparts. Its not a buy and shoot type of firearm. Ive encountered alot of problem that can literaly kill the gun unless you do a certain amount of actual smithing to cure the problems. Nice rifles but CQ and build arent on par for somone like a younger kid buying his first .22 rifle. Price is high and sadly quality is low. I still support the GSG though. Fun little rifle. Keep your eyes peeled for the beginings of problems people. Fix it or get ###### by it. lol Maybe 600rds down mines btw. Thats not very much for a .22. |
| I am glad I started this thread because so many folks have come forward with great input and we are all able to talk on how to get our issues fixed. I will be receiving my GSG back tomorrow from ATI and I cannot wait to shoot it and see how it functions. I will post back on here as soon as the snow melts and I get a chance to take it out and put some rounds through her. |
Armory Sponsor