AK Sponsor
Posted: 8/13/2006 11:37:06 AM EDT
|
Hey, guys. Although I like to believe that I have a pretty solid base of AK knowledge, I realized that I have no clue about something really basic. I know the Soviets made AK-74s with wood furniture, and I know that later they came up with plum. Then in the early 90's they started to go to the 74M, which consisted of black polymer furniture with a folding stock. So here's the question: did they ever use a SOLID stock AK-74 with black poly furniture (think SLR-105A1)? Did any of the former comblock countries use one after the USSR collapsed? Just curious. Thanks...... MCO |
Actually, the AK-74M used a fixed and folding polymer stock. |
Really? Wow, I've never heard that. Black, I assume? |
That's the 74M, with the poly folder. Very cool stuff. However, what I'm trying to figure out is if the Soviets, or later any of the former comblock countries, used a black poly 74 with a FIXED stock. Like I said earlier, think SLR-105. Thanks, guys....... |
Technically that's the AKS-74M, and yes it was called the AK74-M  BTW none of the above photos are mine |
So the solid stock 74 in that pic is a version of the 74-M? Weird, no compensator? I've never seen a 74 in that configuration. Was it widely used? |
Thanks for all the help Jake! I've seen those photos before, but isn't the furniture plum, and not black? |
Actually they're 100 series, not an AK-74M. The first is 7.62 obviously and the second looks to be 5.56.
The barrel is also longer, thats no production one I've ever seen even with a brake. And they wouldnt have threaded whatever is on the end of that barrel, the 74 uses a FSB with threads built on, 24mm. Edit: Here is your answer though, so it seems..gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=54238093 These were probably made after the 74M, but none the less, if that stock really is russian then at some point they made black polymer fixed stocks for their AK-74s. |
|
This is a late 80's rifle, and is plum: www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/e8eda53a.jpg This is strictly a museum piece, and is also plum: kalashnikov.guns.ru/images/104-1.jpg No such thing as a "AKS-74M". The switch to black furniture occured after the AK74M was an issue item. There were quite a few AK74M's issued with plum furniture. Izhmash does offer a black fixed stock AK74 but am unaware of any sales. Bulgarian Arsenal did make fixed stocked black furniture AK74's, I have owned several (demilled of course). |
No such thing as an AKS-74M? Do your homework. The AK-74 was modified and improved upon when shortcomings to the original design were discovered during the Soviet-Afghanistan war. The wood furniture on the '74 was undesirable and was replaced with a black polyamide. Black polymer magazines were issued in lieu of the orange bakelite mags. Apparently, there were "light reflection" issues with the bakelites. The last "modification" was to the muzzle brake. Improvements were made to the old style brake, decreasing fouling problems that arose. As I stated earlier, some AK-74Ms used fixed polyamide stocks, (black and later plum) and some utilized folding polyamide stocks. |
Hey, Bachelor-did you mean plum and then later black? I was under the impression that plum furniture was first used because the Soviets couldn't get the black color to come out right. I didn't think black poly furniture came into the picture until several years after plum had been introduced......just checking, dude. |
Just because they started using plum or changed a brake doesnt mean you add an M onto AK-74 or AKS-74. The AK-74M is a specific model adopted and issued. The AKS-74 saw many different versions, but they were all just an AKS-74. There is no M until the polymer folder. And have you looked at Ekies page? I wouldnt suggest trying to educate him on muzzle brakes. 
|
Yes 'cos mine had one before i swapped it for a Skeleton. 
|
|
I don't claim to be an expert regarding the AK variants, and my comment about "do your homework" was not meant to be rude, so pardon me if I've "ruffled your feathers." "Ekie" made the statement: "There's no such thing as an AKS-74M." I beg to differ. This is a pic from the "Kalashnikov Site" which clearly shows the AKS-74M "Modernized Assault Rifle." I only know what I read and research...same as you.  Also, to quote a paragraph from Joe Poyer's book entitled, The AK-47 and AK-74 Kalashnikov Rifles and Their Variations: "To remedy the deficiencies uncovered by actual combat experience, Soviet small-arms designers went to work. By 1991, the last year of the old Soviet Union, the new AK-74M/AKS-74M was adopted, to replace earlier AK-74s." And yes, the plum furniture was used before the black. My mistake. |
No ruffled feathers, thought your post was a joke, did not know you were taking that Poyer book seriously. That rifle is nothing more then a museum piece, I suppose if you want to call that single prototype a "AKS-74" more power to you. Far as I am concerned there is no such thing as a "AKS-74M", nor were any such animal issued. Joe Poyer's book is only good for pictures, best not to read it, and better yet not to quote out of it. Kind of like Duncon Long's AR books, good for laughs. |
I've seen a lot of posts from Bachelor of Science, can't remember any of them ever being rude. Sure that wasn't his intent here. "Some AK-74Ms used fixed polyamide stocks...."-This is what I would like confirmed, as there seems to a lot of confusion in this thread. Were there some 74s/74Ms with black fixed stocks? |
|
Poyer's book was poorly researched and the proofreading was rushed to get it published. He sent it to a good friend of Ekie's and mine in TX. for proofreading. There were too many errors. When contacted, Poyer decided to leave it as it was and take it to the publisher. There are a number of excellent books for AK study and referrence but unfortunately that is not one of them. |
No problem with that, just turns out Joe Poyer is the "punch line". That book is rather unfortunate. |
None issued. We know of one example of a 5.45 Izhmash fixed stocked AK-100 series rifle in black. Another museum piece. Am sure Izhmash would make them if you were to order a few thousand of them. Not sure what Izhmash would name such a rifle. ETA: And if there were any, you can be sure it would be mentioned in the Variation Guide. |
|
EDITED TO ADD VISUAL AIDS, PAGE NUMBERS AND THE LIKE: OK, here is an attempt to set the record straight on the "AKS-74M" and AK-74M. This "catalog":  www.milparade.com/kalarms/karms.htm Is also partially available on the web here: kalashnikov.guns.ru/models.html The book version shows this rifle on page 104: And this one on page 105: There is also a steel stocked version of this same series pictured on page 94/95 that is not on the web page. These three rifles are all prototypes featuring alternative receiver construction, flip up top covers, a shorten muzzle do dad, lengthened barrel etc, etc, and date from 85 (based on the gas tube take down lever, pinned on attachments, furniture, and trigger), and are in a museum were they belong. What they are not is a "AKS-74M", or a AK-74M, in that there is no such thing as a "AKS-74M", and the AK74M is a Standard Russian rifle. Poyer was confused by this catalog, and has passed this along to his readers. |
Tantal sent me this picture and told me it was of a black stocked AK74: If so, it is the only example I know of, and judging from the quality of the picture I would say it resides in a Russian museum. Considering the ribbed top cover the rifle would date prior to 1993. Now, is this really a black stocked rifle and not a plum? I have argued such points with Tantal until 03: 00 hrs quite a few times, and have had many go arounds on what is black and what is plum, but he always wins, so took his word on this one. |
|
Ekie-great info, man. Really appreciate the pictures/research done by all who've responded. On a related subject, I know the 74M is standard issue for the Russian military. That said, I assume that due to the enormous financial difficulties facing them, the Russians have been unable to equip all of their guys with this newer model 74. I'm guessing that large numbers of wood/plum 74s are still in the hands of Federation troops. I am correct? Have any of these been fitted with black solid stock furniture, or have they been left in their original configurations? I'll gamble that the latter is more likely (again budget issues). Thanks to all that have humored this thread. Not really the most important subject, but kind of interesting all the same. |
|
I checked the international news pictures from Chechnya just about every night during the 99 war and the more recent one. What one saw was a mixture of AK-74s. There are some with laminated wood stocks, usually pretty beat. Most of these appeared to be used by reservists. There were some AKS-74s with steel side folding stocks and plum pistol grips and handguards mixed in. Most of the troops had the black side folding black handguard standard rifle with the smooth top covers, spot welded FSBs and gas blocks and the pattern 4 compensators on the front. Some guys had orange bakelite 45 rd RPK-74 mags as well. They look pretty funny sticking out of an AK-74 with black furniture - unless it was pointed at you. I saw zero black or plum RPK-74 mags and no RPK-74s with anything but laminated furniture. I don't remember seeing any fixed plastic stock AK-74 in the hands of Russian troops but I have several pics of rifles like this in the hands of muslim terrrorists in a few locales. I believe the fixed stocks were made for export rifles or to aid the Bulgarians in their domestic production. HTH
|
AK Sponsor