User Panel
Posted: 11/17/2008 11:02:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
This review is here to discuss your PERSONAL experience with hunting ammo using bullets such as:
* Winchester 64gr PowerPoint * Nosler Partition * Barnes TSX * Winchester 40gr JHP for varmints * BONDED BULLETS USED FOR SELF DEFENSE Discussing hand loaded ammo is OK, as there are several bullet types (Sierra 65gr GameKing) that aren't available in loaded ammunition. This is not a reloading thread though. Keep the information about the bullet's suitability to hunting, not about the reloading aspect. For that, go to the reloading forum. Please add the following information to your post: * Ammunition used * Accuracy * Reliability * Number of rounds fired * Terminal performance DO NOT USE THIS THREAD AS A DISCUSSION ABOUT AMMO - ONLY TO ADD YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE. I don't want people to have to skip over a zillion posts such as "where do you buy this stuff?" or similar to find actual reviews of ammo. Thanks for your cooperation. Obviously, this topic will not have a poll attached, as it disucsses several different ammo manufacturers. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
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I have had personal experience with the Winchester 64gr PP, which my son uses to hunt deer here in central Texas. Our deer are fairly small (100 pounds or so if you're lucky), and he's shooting it out of a 16" barreled AR with a 1:9 twist. I can't remember the accuracy, as it's been a long time since we've shot groups with it.
Terminal performance is acceptable, and he's taken two deer with it. Both shots completely ventilated the deer, apparently expanding perfectly on its way through. With the smaller bullet, shot placement is important, as this small bullet doesn't have the "oomph" to make up for bad shot placement. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
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I shot my first deer this year. I used my RRA Predator Pursuit with 1 in 8 twist and 75 grn TAP LEO. (Not the 5.56x45, but the red box .223 load).
The doe was approx. 175lbs. before dressing and was standing 373 yds. out according to my Leica laser range finder. The bullet struck her 2" behind her left front shoulder and exited through part of her right shoulder. It demolished the lungs on the way through. She was DRT. The bullet performance was pretty impressive. I would not use any .223 round to take shots that were not very clean. Broadside or neck shots are all I would be willing to take with this round. (this was a deer damage permit for those who want to start screaming at the screen) |
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The village may have replaced "the state," and it in turn may have replaced the fist with the hug, but an unwanted embrace from which you cannot excape is just a nicer form of tyranny. Jonah Goldberg
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Here is a very effective varmint load:
I am loading Hornady 60gr Vmaxs for Varmints. They are extremely effective inside 250 yds. Beyond 250 yds they are not quite as "explosive" yet still very efective. Most importantly they are very accurate. Bushmaster Predator 20" 1-8 223 w/Hornady 60gr Vmax Loaded to 3,000 fps Accuracy is easily sub MOA out to 300yds. I have broken .5 moa with this load. I have shot @ 500 rounds of this load and plan to load 1,500 more over the winter. Black Hills loads an equivilant load commercially. |
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I don't do much deer hunting with my ARs because CO requires a .24 caliber rifle or larger, but I have killed a deer in Texas using an 18" AR with Federal 62 grain Tactical Bonded cartridges.
This cartridge uses the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet from Speer. I keep a couple mags of this round on hand for defense purposes and my wet phone book tests have shown that it is a very tough bullet. So I decided to give it a go on a deer. The rifle was a LaRue Stealth 18" with a Leupold 3.5-10 scope. This rifle is normally zeroed at 100 yards with mk 262, and I found that the 62 grain TBBC was about an inch and a half low at 100 yards. Accuracy was acceptable, but not great. I sighted in with 40 rounds, and these rounds were going about 2-3 MOA. With this kind of accuracy, I would limit shots to about 200 yards max. Terminal performance was outstanding. The shot hit the deer quartering at about 125 yards. He ran about 100 feet and dropped. The bullet shattered the shoulder and tore up the lungs pretty good. I found the bullet just underneath the hide near the animal's hip, and it was a perfect mushroom. If you are willing to limit your shots to accommodate so-so accuracy, this is a great round for deer. |
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I've killed five deer with five rounds of .223. All from 16" barrel. First 4 from a Bushmaster, fifth from Noveske.
1 doe with a 68 grain OTM Black Hills at 20 yards. Doe bolted and ran 15 yds into a tree and was down. Both lungs completely scrambled rolled out like so much pink scrambled eggs. The heart was shredded into finger sized petals. Only small frag exited. On the range, it groups very well. 1 large buck with a 55 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw at 20 FEET - 1.5" hole bored through both lungs and recovered under opp side skin. Perfect textbook mushroom. Buck ran about 20 yards and was down. Oddly two broken ribs under the ENTRANCE wound. On the range, mediocre accuracy. 1 medium sized buck with a Win 64 grain PP to the neck at 100 yards. I wasn't as impressed as the buck was. Slug exited out the same side of the neck just a couple inches from the entrance wound shedding it's jacket at the exit. Didn't even break the spine. Go figure. Still dropped in it's tracks. On the range, mediocre accuracy. 1 small buck hit in throat from straight on with 60 grain Nosler Partition from Black Hills at about 30 yards. Buck fell backwards and was down. Penetration about 17" and tremendous 3-4" diameter wound channel the first oh 6-7 inches through front of throat. On the range, mediocre accuracy - maybe 2" 100 yard groups. Past Saturday late afternoon, a 6pt while still hunting along a north GA ridgeline in the Chattahoochie National Forest. One Black Hills 77 grain OTM into the front shoulder/neck junction at about 40 feet dropped him literally in his tracks. Bullet did not exit. Under the skin at entrance wound was a quarter sized hole into the chest cavity that broke shoulder bones. Chest cavity full of blood but I did not get a good look at lungs and heart. This has been an insanely accurate load from my Noveske N4 Recce upper, well under MOA. |
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"BONDED BULLETS USED FOR SELF DEFENSE"
(repost) Speer LE 64 grain Gold Dot Speer has expanded its line of Gold Dot ammunition to include rifle ammunition in 223 Remington. The ammunition examined for this post is loaded with a 64 grain bonded soft point bullet that has less exposed lead at the meplat than Federal’s 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet that is used in their LE223T2 load. The 64 grain Gold Dot bullet has a boat-tail and a cannelure. This load is charged with a ball powder that according to Speer is a “flash suppressed propellant.” The primers are sealed and crimped in place, however, there is no sealant at the case mouth. The 64 grain Gold Dot load was chronographed from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel, a 16” Colt light-weight barrel and a 14.5” Colt M4A1 barrel. All of the barrels have chrome lining, NATO chambers and 1:7” twists. 10-shot strings of the load were fired over an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. All velocities listed are muzzle velocities as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. Accuracy testing was conducted following my usual protocol of firing 10-shot groups from a concrete bench at a distance of 100 yards using my 24” Krieger barreled AR-15. This barrel has a 1:7.7” twist. The free-float rail of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest and the PRS stock was stabilized in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Wind conditions were monitored using a Wind Probe. Sighting was performed using a Leupold Competition Series scope with a mirage shade. The scope was adjusted to be parallax free at 100 yards. Prior to testing the 64 grain Gold Dot load, I fired a 10-shot control group using hand-loaded 69 grain Sierra MatchKings. That group had an extreme spread of 0.86”. Three 10-shot groups of the Speer LE 64 grain Gold Dots fired in a row had extreme spreads that measured: 1.11” 0.91” 1.30” for a 10-shot average extreme spread of 1.12”! I over-layed those three groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The composite group had a mean radius of 0.33”. For comparison, previous testing of the Black Hills blue box 75 grain MHP load fired from the same set-up as above produced three 10-shot groups at 100 yards that had an average extreme spread of 1.14” and a mean radius of 0.37” for the 30-shot composite group. |
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All hail Jeanne Assam!
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Hornady 55 grn V-Max 50+ yards full frontal shot dead center of chest where neck joins the body. Heart and Lungs were taken out, the base, jacket and lead fragments were recovered fron inside the stomach.
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11/4/08 ----Damn, that hurt.
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Seven whitetail deer. #1 shot with a 55 grain hollow point, bullet fragmented, deer ran 60 yards, hardly any blood trail.
#2-#7 were shot with 62 grain bonded federals, and have never taken a step. As the deer ranged from 125 to 175 lbs. I have yet to recover a bullet. Complete pass through. Ranges from 70 yards to 250 yards. |
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We've taken 4 deer including an 8 point (~140#) this November with 16" & 20" weapons using 75gr hornady, both SAAMI .223 (black hills) & 5.56 TAP versions. All one shot, quick kills. Trust me, the 75gr hornady performs "in real life" just like it does in gel. Put the round into the chest cavity, preferably broadside, and it's meat in the freezer.
As a side note, Federal TBBC is a MUCH better barrier round than the new .223 "Gold Dot", particularly through glass. Yeah TBBC is less accurate, but it holds together much better. 75gr 5.56 Hornady TAP for general use and 62gr Federal TBBC for barriers are absolutely the best combination for this caliber. |
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Have had excellent results in hogs/pigs with 69 gr black hills Sierra matchking.
For all you with the pics and detailed data. THANKS. What a great bunch and excellent resource you guys are. It took me 20 years of in the field experience and on the range to learn what I know about ballistics. I consider my self very knowledable but not a expert. You guys are a educational tool that I hope all you ARFCOM guys appreciate. I do occasional prep / refresher training (free of course) at a local range for National guard troops going over seas and have made this site a must for ballistics familirazation. Again THANKS.. |
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Winning the "Hearts and Minds"- Two in heart, One in the mind.
"Your flashhider tastes like Pez. Try it out."- DZhitshard LF SSGT John Self KIA 14 May 07 Baghdad |
<Ammo reviews only in this thread please - Z>
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<Ammo reviews only in this thread please - Z>
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A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed. |
A few years ago I took a broadside shot at a younger 8pt whitetail with Winchester .64gr PP ammo. It was taken with a CR6724 colt with a 24" barrel at about 35 yards. I took him roughly 6-8" below his jaw line in the neck. Accuracy was ok at 100yrds testing it. The results were pretty good. Instantly the bucks back legs feel along with the front and a final exhail dead in his tracks. Upon recovery I found an entrance hole and two drops of blood. No exit hole. Bullet was fragmented in the neck area causing internal damage to the neck/spine.
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I shot two deer last year with my AR's. The first was with a 20" retro build using the red box LEO 55 grain TAP. Shot a small buck behind the shoulder at about 80 yards, The entrance wound was about 1" and the bullet did not exit. The heart was red jello and there was massive damage inside the chest cavity. The second deer was shot at about 110 yards with 75 red box LEO tap. This was a difficult quartering towards shot, and I put the bullet a little too far back. The bullet skirted along the front side of the diaphragm and shredded both lungs. Broke one rib on the way out and the exit hole was about three inches in diameter. There were bullet fragments through the wound channel. This was out of a 7-18" barrel. The deer ran about 25 yards and there was almost no blood trail.
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"Ya'll can go to hell, I'm going to Texas"
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i no longer use my .223 ar to hunt deer. When I did, Noslar partitions did the job on the Tx deer .
Shot has to be dead on or you will be tracking a large deer with the 5.56 or .223. I now use a 6.8 with SSA Noslar rounds since I hunt larger deer in Louisiana. |
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I've only shot 1 deer (small doe) with .223. This shot was taken at 20 yards, from a 16 inch Bushmaster Patrolman's carbine 1 in 9.
Ammunition used was Black Hills 68 grain blue box. Deer was facing me when I put the shot directly between the eyes. The top half of the skull was removed and the brain completely sprayed on nearby trees. -Reliability with this round was great, I've only shot 200 rounds of it, most was through the Bushmaster. Had 1 short stroke in my LMT. I doubt that was the ammo though, was a brand new rifle. -Accuracy was also great 1-1.5 inches at 100 yards depending on my shooting ability on any given day. Sometimes larger groups when I was sucking. _Terminal performance noted above (not that it would have really mattered in this case). |
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Federal 223 tipped with Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets are what I load in my gun. They are well worth the extra money. I a bolt gun chambered in 223 South Africa and Namibia to kill all kinds of game on several trips. Rifles are hard to come by legally in Africa. My friend had an old .30-06 and a Mini Mauser in 223 to take advantage of a horde of South African surplus military 5.56. The 223 with the TBBC bullet proved to be devistating and was a real education to me about the little 223 could do with a little techknowlogy loaded into it.
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I have killed three with a 16" 1/9 twist AR
1) 25yds, Silver Bear 62gr HP, Heart/Lung area shot, bullet fragmented and did considerable damage to lungs and liquefied the heart. Deer ran 50yds or so. 2) 50yds, Silver Bear 62gr HP, spine (above front shoulders), left fist size chunk missing from the back of the deer. Deer collapsed in place, kicked a lot and required a follow up head shot for a humane kill. 3)75-100yds, Privi 68gr Match HP, neck shot deer facing me, bullet yawed and tumbled leaving considerable exit wound. The spine was missed. Deer collapsed on impact and did not move. |
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Barnes 62 grain TSX Shot from my Colt AR . Rem cases, 25 grains of Varget. Shot was 55 yards Deer weighed aprox 120lbs. deer went 40 yards. There was blood from the point of impact to where it dropped. Blood trail could have bin easly followed if needed.
Joe ENTRANCE http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/shrpshtrjoe/100_0358.jpg EXIT http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/shrpshtrjoe/100_0357.jpg |
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Some years back I took 5 or 6 deer in central Texas with a 16" RRA using 60gr Black Hills reman soft point (blue box). I don't know whose projectiles they used in those, but accuracy was quite acceptable, and all but one were 1-shot kills. The one was a base of the neck shot (that's all that was exposed) and I finished it off with a head shot.
Bullet performance seemed quite acceptable ... all were total pass-throughs so I was unable to recover projectiles. |
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Black Hills 60gr Vmax for my coyote hunting, in my RRA Predator Pursuit I get .60 - .95 MOA accuracy and they are deadly on yotes. For deer / hogs my favorite is COR-BON 62 gr TSX, which provides .80 - 1.15 MOA accuracy and deadly on deer, haven't shot a hog yet but sure it will do the job.
T. Mims |
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Shot a doe this year with 5.56 Speer Gold Dot 64 gr. ammo. Passed all the way through the deer, doing major damage to the heart/lungs with a large exit hole. Ran under 70 yards. Shot was from 32 yards using an AR with a 16" barrel and 1/7 twist.
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For years I had an Olympic 20" A2 Hbar. Back in mid/late 90's.
I hunted blacktail deer with it here in Western Oregon. Shot 5/6 using Winchester Supreme 55 gr. ballistic tips. Not a single deer took one step after taking a round. One young buck backflipped after a direct sternum shot from 40 yards away. Wicked mist of red behind it on impact. Bummer was that mist was the backstrap. Longest shot was 200 yds. Messy but extremely effective. Ribs were blown out, meat on other side untouched, vitals were liquified. I still have a fondness for that round. Devesating and penetration was super, and did it it's job at near muzzle velocitiy. I'm hoping my new 14.5'r will show the same love with a 5.56 loading using same bullets. |
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