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Posted: 1/27/2008 12:18:19 PM EDT
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Fragmentation: How the M193 bullet does the bulk of it's damage. The Q3131 fragmented and broke in 2 (as evidenced by the witness panel behind the 5 gal. foam ice-chest. This was at 100 yards from a 20" barrel. Fired from the same weapon at point blank (ok, 8 feet) range, PPU '07 failed to fragment. There were SMALL pieces that broke off of the base, but the bullet just bannana'ed and tore a little at the cannelure. There was no "base and nose-cone" separation. This ammunition does NOT perform to M193 spec. Period. BTW: It did last for 3 days fully submerged in WD-40 and when the bullet was pulled all was well and the primer fired, so it IS sealed and it IS accurate, just don't count on it fragmenting much if at all. Pictures of the PPU slug coming in an hour or so. |
Here's part one. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=359691 Kind of disappointing. But I'd like to see testing in something besides water. |
Why? Q3131 split in 2 pieces at 100 yards when confronted with a foam ice-chest filled with water. PPU did not. Nor did it at 8 feet. Kinda iron-clad proof against it being an M193-spec load if you ask me. |
I concur. There's no point in testing the Prvi load at 100 yards if it won't even fragment at point-blank range. Properly calibrated ballistic gelatin would obviously be a better test, but that's costly and time consuming.' 12_gauge: Can you tell if the Prvi jacket is steel or gilding metal? Can you tell anything about the relative jacket thickness of the two? |
I have some Q3131 and PPU 07' and a grinder. I am busy today but tomorrow I bet I can make something happen. I do know that the PPU does not tumble as soon as the Q3131 (based on a witness sheet behind 1 milk just at 100y where the Q3131 cut a sideways sillhouet and the PPU only made a SLIGHTLY oblong hole. The bullets are also shaped differently as the cannelure is at a different place. I will section a Q3131 and PPU projectile tomorrow and see if there is a thickness difference. I tried to the other day with a pocket knife (didn't work out for me) and the jackets FELT = in difficulty to cut, I know it is VERY unscientific, just noting that one didn't cip my blade while the other cut like butter is all. |
I wonder if that would hurt if someone got hit by that.....  I guess the terrorist in the sand dunes are experiencing the power of the 5.56. 
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That is exactly what I was thinking. Still looks quite damaging to me. |
+1 Wouldn't want to get hit by it. PPU would do some damage for sure. Glad I got over 3k of it 
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It is accurate AND properly seale at both ends. I will hopefully chrony it today if the rain lets up. |
| Sometime back, a thread showed a cross section of bullets cut open with a dremel and how the Prvi 556 jacket was same as 193 spec. What about the jacket thickness on this new 07 Prvi 556 as compared to the Q3131? Since it doesn't seem to want to fragment, it would tend to make one think about cutting open a bullet to recheck jacket thickness against Q3131 or any other known 193 spec round. |
I will do so, BUT I don't think omposition or thickness of the jacket is the issue. The bullet is a totally differen shapefrom Q3131. Look at a loaded round. Longer. pull the bullet...longer. The cuvature of it is different, the cannelure is located differently, th PPU tumbles about 20-50% later than the Q3131 from my tests, that tells me bullet shape IS A FACTOR in this. If the PPU is tumbling this much later, it is shedding velocity crazily. WIth M193 IMPACT VELOCITY DOES NOT MATTER. BS and I am full of it because 2700fps yadda yadda yadda right? WRONG. What matters is the velocity of the bullet at the time it yaws sideways. If that bullet hits at 5,000fps and never yaws IT IS NOT FRAGGING. By the same token, the slower to yaw PPU bullet has lost a good amount of velocity AT TIME OF YAW compared to Q3131 which seems to yaw much sooner in the medium it is fired into. This leads me to belive that it is bullet SHAPE that is causing the PPU not to frag, not constrction. PS. This is not my laptop and the keys are a pain to hit, it sucks and punctuation suffers. PSS. I see the sun...
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Check my "Chronograph Data" thread. Chronograph Data |
Thanks! Looks close enough to M193 specs that it should fragment easily. I am curious if PP has changed the bullet design. When I get the chance I will dig out some of my 2005 and 2006 stuff and pull one and compare to the 2007 fodder. |
If the primary difference is length, the longer bullet should fragment more easily (at lower speed). |
The length is maybe .02 or something. It is mainly ogive/shape. |
Q3131 fragged in a $1.57 wal-mart foam ice-chest. The PPU was fired down into a 35gal trash-can filled with water. I have not sectioned the rounds. I truly belive them to be the same as the one FALARAK sectioned. It is the shape causing the issues. Also, FALARAK's test showed his Wolf M193 having around 100-150fps more than the 07 PPU I tested. This could have gotten some fragging out of it at the short range FALARAK tested at. |
Mine passed a magnet test at a match, so my PPU '07's have a copper jacket. The older stuff might not, and a lot of S&B stuff is also steel jacketed. FWIW it's an interesting discussion, but the M193 spec only mentions projectile weight, bullet shape (as in, its a FMJBT), and velocity a specific distance from the barrel. If it meets that, it's M193, end of discussion. Tumbling, yawing, and fragmentation are NOT part of the official specification. If they were, it would be a breach of the Geneva convention. The fact that 5.56 and 5.45 calibers do tend to do this, and that bullets tend to break at their cannelures at high velocities is officially an incidental quality. These properties will also vary from lot to lot from all manufacturers. |
Amen Brother Homeyclaus. Well said. If I wanted frag, I would shoot a softpoint!!!!! IMHO, PPU is the best M193 available. |
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