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Posted: 12/6/2003 10:10:51 PM EDT
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Pasted from my post on Pre-Ban.com: Wolf has ceased production of the steel casings with the much hated laquer coating and is now producing their ammo with a "Poly" coated steel casing. The ammo no longer has any red sealant on the channelure and no more laquer to foul up your chamber.  This is a very significant improvement as that the ammo is now, more than ever a very good value for plinking ammo. I got a case of 1000 rounds of the 62 grain FMJ at the gun show in Dallas this weekend for $95 tax included. You can identify the new ammo in the case by a large P stamped on the outside of the case. You have to look at the rounds inside the small black boxes to tell the difference if it's not in a case. I will be going to the range this weekend and will fire about 200-300 rounds. I will let you know how it shoots in my Colt LE6920 with 16" chrome bore/chamber. RESULTS Here are the results of this new version of Wolf ammo.... About 400 rounds today through a fairly new Colt LE6920 (has 16" barrel and M4 feed ramps). Experienced only 1 fail to feed. No other failures. I used new magazines with green followers and I also used old magazines with old black followers. It didnt seem to matter. The poly coating on the ammo is not soft and can not be easily scraped away with a finger nail like the old laquer version. It is very hard and is comparable to nickel coated casings like that of Silver Bear. However, it does leave a slight bit of gray residue on your finger tips when loading magazines.(but then again, so does brass that is not brand new) It did not leave any gummy residue or anything else that would be considered "fouling" of the chamber after firing. I even left one in the chamber of a hot barrel and let it cool for 45 minutes while I ate lunch, which was a HUGE no-no for the old laquered ammo. After lunch I picked the rifle up and fired off about 15 rounds in rapid succession with no failures. I am sold on this ammo. I will be buying a lot more of it as I am about as happy with it as I could expect to be with just about any ammo that I do not use for duty purposes (75 gr Hornady TAP). |
| FWIW, several years ago I bought 500 rnds of TCW / Wolf 5.45x39, headstamp 3 over 97, that appeared to be bare steel but had a slippery feel. The cases had no primer or case mouth sealant either. Prototype testing of the clear coating or just loose quality control? In any case, functioning was 100% |
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Quoted: I picked up some 7.62x39 for my AK last weekend at a fun show. I only shot 100 rounds of it and didn't have any problems. Haven't tried any .223 yet. As this stuff is normally in the shrink wrap and cannot be inspected visually at the gun shows, how can you tell the difference between this stuff and the old laquered stuff. Are the boxes different? |
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Poly Coating on Wolf Ammunition. It reminds me of a thin coat of graphite (Gray) powder that is fused to certain match bullets some years back. It has a very slick feeling to it and leaves the same gray film on your hand like the Poly Coating on the Wolf. I have found that this gray film will leave a slight coating inside your chamber and barrel as I found by running a dry patch down the bore. I also found the new Wolf is a bit faster and a little more accurate then the older stock, nothing to write home about but better. |
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As stated above, you can not tell the difference between the old laquer ammo and the new poly coated ammo if it is in the black 20 round boxes. The only way to tell is the larg [b]P[/b] stamped on the outside of a full case or to open one of the 20 round boxes and inspect them. As far as the poly coating. What it does is protect the casing from rusting since it is made of steel. This is what the laquer used to do but since the laquer was causing problems, they changed methods. I have found that this gray film will leave a slight coating inside your chamber and barrel as I found by running a dry patch down the bore. Are you sure that the gray film in your chamber was not carbon from firing the ammo? If it left it there just by chambering the rounds and not firing them, then it's the same gray film that gets on your fingers when you handle them ammo. As stated above, it's no worse than that you get from handling brass that is not brand new. It is a VERY slight amount of film and it took me loading about 200 rounds to notice enough on my hands to want to wash them. What is significant about the gray film/powder is that it does not melt and stick to anything. It is just a fine dust and can be wiped, cleaned away just as easily as carbon residue but it is in such insignificant amounts that you will not even notice it. |
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Quoted: What is significant about the gray film/powder is that it does not melt and stick to anything. It is just a fine dust and can be wiped, cleaned away just as easily as carbon residue but it is in such insignificant amounts that you will not even notice it. |
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Quoted: [b]RESULTS[/b] Here are the results of this new version of Wolf ammo.... Experienced only 1 fail to feed. See I told ya this stuff is BAD... Bet this "new" stuff will cause even more barrel wear. You guys are cheap...buy some real ammo. Just kidding!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait to get some of this stuff to try out!!! |
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Redbone, I am curious what type of the wolf ammo you got. I got the 62 grain and it didnt have any red sealant on the projectiles/case necks. Did you get the 55 grain? Also, just FYI the bullets in my ammo have no chennelure. What is the lot number on the inside flap of the black 20 round boxes you have? You may have gotten some of the first production of this stuff that was made before they stopped using it? Or maybe it came from a different plant since I think they load it at more than one plant in Russia? |
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Quoted: Quoted: I picked up some 7.62x39 for my AK last weekend at a fun show. I only shot 100 rounds of it and didn't have any problems. Haven't tried any .223 yet. As this stuff is normally in the shrink wrap and cannot be inspected visually at the gun shows, how can you tell the difference between this stuff and the old laquered stuff. Are the boxes different? The dealer I bought from said that there is a "P" ink stamped on the cardboard box that the ammo comes in. The 20 rd boxes look the same. |
| Yesterday I fired some more of the "NEW" Wolf from a different lot then the first case that I fired, and man did it SUCK! It was like night and day with the avg velocity being only 2740fps for the 55gr H/P were the prior lot ran 3091fps from a 20"inch barrel. The accuracy was like a shotgun and a high amount of smoke. Q/C at the Russian plant really hit the shitter with this lot. I call the dealer to find out that there are a few bad lots of Wolf running around out there. I was told that Wolf made a few changes with powder and the new poly coating and a few lots are short charged. He still had 5K of the first lot with the good velocity so he mailed a call tag for the bad stuff and will give me free shipping on 5K at $79.99 per 1K of the good stuff. I'll let you know on lot number and velocity/accuracy when I receive and fire it. |
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Quoted: The ammo no longer has any red sealant on the channelure and no more laquer to foul up your chamber. Dude! Wolf .223 hasn't had red sealant on the neck/bullet for a long time now. There never was a channelure on the bullet either. Take some close up pictures of this stuff with a decent macro lens so we can all get a look at it. |
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The new stuff also does not have a channelure. I don't have a digital camera so I can't take any pics to post on the net. By the way, fired another 300 rounds today. No malfunctions experienced. No goo, goop, clots, chunks, nuggets, boulders or other notable foreign matter observed in the chamber, bore or upper receiver. What can I say? This new stuff is actually very decent ammo if you are not phobic about steel casings. |
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Quoted: Redbone, I am curious what type of the wolf ammo you got. I got the 62 grain and it didnt have any red sealant on the projectiles/case necks. Did you get the 55 grain? Also, just FYI the bullets in my ammo have no chennelure. What is the lot number on the inside flap of the black 20 round boxes you have? You may have gotten some of the first production of this stuff that was made before they stopped using it? Or maybe it came from a different plant since I think they load it at more than one plant in Russia? I bought the 7.62x39 fmj. I wonder if Wolf is only removing the sealant on .223 because it caused problems in ARs and not other calibers? |
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Quoted: Does the new Wolf ammo smell as bad as the old stuff when fired? JSCraig [url]www.mcw-tech.com[/url] I've never fired Wolf ammo before the other day. I have shot Barnaul, Silver Bear and Ulynovski and they all stank. This Wolf I bought from Miwall smelled like some kind of incense. It's all I could smell when I got home until I cleaned my guns. |
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Pre-ban Colt M4 Carbine $1,700 Aimpoint ML-2 NVG compatible site $400.00 KAC RAS Rail MIL-1913 Forearm Rail $300.00 ARMS #40 BUIS and ARMS M22M68 Mounts $200.00 Shooting third world crappy steel cased ammuniton manufacutred by Vodka'ed up former communists........PRICELESS. |
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Quoted: Pre-ban Colt M4 Carbine $1,700 Aimpoint ML-2 NVG compatible site $400.00 KAC RAS Rail MIL-1913 Forearm Rail $300.00 ARMS #40 BUIS and ARMS M22M68 Mounts $200.00 Shooting third world crappy steel cased ammuniton manufacutred by Vodka'ed up former communists........PRICELESS. I always find these kind of knee-jerk opinions refreshing. No first hand experience, no nothing, just an uneducated opinion. So what offends you about Wolf? The low price? If you like paying too much, I'd be happy to sell you a $30,000 Ford Escort if it'll make you feel better. If it's about the steel case - realize that there's crappy brass ammo too. Can you say OLYMPIC? The commies have manufactured steel cased stuff for decades with flawless reliability. Their military apparatus may not have been up to western standards, but I certainly would not have been eager to meet them on the battlefield because they were using "third world crappy steel cased ammuniton manufacutred by Vodka'ed up former communists". Like many others have said, and as I firmly believe: Try it in YOUR rifle. If it doesn't feed, or has horrible accuracy, or whatever, then try something different. If you're plinking on a budget however, and Wolf works, then more power to you. IT'S JUST A FREAKIN' BULLET FOR CRYING OUT LOUD - IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. |
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Knee jerk? If it is because I have an opinion that differs from yours, then guilty as charged. The wild assumtion that I have no first hand experience thus making my opinion un-educated speaks for itself as we don't know each other from Adam. What I and a substantial bunch of others believe is Wolf is supsect quality with it's own unique problems of which you cannot deny hearing about. Crappy brass ammo as well? You bet! The issue hear is not steel vs brass but rather overall quality and application. This discussion for my part focuses on the .223/.556 offering. I shoot thousands of rounds of the 7.62x39 Wolf and other former Warsaw Pact produced military ammo without hesitation....in my SKS and AK variants. Just a bullet you say? To my thinking there is a big disconnect in acquiring the fine equipment we enthusiasts do, only to skimp and save a few bucks with critical ammunition choices feeding either our handguns or long guns. You do good work here and I as well as others appreciate the information you bring, enabling discussions such as these. We can agree to disagree....but presumtious attacks of differing opinions really only re-enforce my attempt at a little humor on the matter. TR |
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Quoted: Pre-ban Colt M4 Carbine $1,700 Aimpoint ML-2 NVG compatible site $400.00 KAC RAS Rail MIL-1913 Forearm Rail $300.00 ARMS #40 BUIS and ARMS M22M68 Mounts $200.00 Shooting third world crappy steel cased ammuniton manufacutred by Vodka'ed up former communists........PRICELESS. Tree Rat, Do you buy 93 octane fuel for your vehicles too? Why do I believe in my heart that when you fill up at the pumps with a vehicle you probably paid $20K or more for, that you press that button above the 87 octane grade hose? |
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Tree-Rat made a very funny post and I agree with him. I admit I'm a bit envious of his high quality equipment and I "know" if I had that much $$ in mine I wouldn't even consider WOLF. I haven't ever shot Wolf in my Bushy, and there is still no reason for me to start now. My AR is for serious shooting & hunting and I want the ammo to be the best I can afford. My SKS is a differant creature & I have shot Russian in it but not Wolf yet. By the way I recently shot some Hornady TAP ammo & loved its performance on game, can anyone other than a LEO purchase it? |
| I haven't tried the .223 stuff yet but I got two boxes of the 9mm. Thought the stuff looked funny. Anyway I got at least one jam per mag in my Ruger P89 and that thing eats anything I give it. It has always done fine with the lacquer-coated stuff. Think I'll steer clear of that stuff. |
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Quoted: Tree-Rat made a very funny post and I agree with him. I admit I'm a bit envious of his high quality equipment and I "know" if I had that much $$ in mine I wouldn't even consider WOLF. I haven't ever shot Wolf in my Bushy, and there is still no reason for me to start now. My AR is for serious shooting & hunting and I want the ammo to be the best I can afford. My SKS is a differant creature & I have shot Russian in it but not Wolf yet. By the way I recently shot some Hornady TAP ammo & loved its performance on game, can anyone other than a LEO purchase it? I think, for a lot of us, it's just difficult to justify spending 2-3X the cost on ammo that's expendable if we don't reload. I mean, whenever I buy things, I try to buy things that will retain value, or lose as little value as possible. That way, I can rationalize that if I ever have to sell it, I can get most of the $$ back. But to bring it back to the ammo - I think the appeal of Wolf is simply that it's cheap... and ammo is something that (for the most part), once you use it, it's gone - nothing to show for it, whereas when you spend the money on guns, you will always have the hard assets. |
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Well, I took the plunge, again. Had a gunshow this last weekend. They usually have Wichester q3131a for $164.00 for 1K or PMC for $150.00. Well they had neither, and I wanted some cheap stuff for plinking. They had the new wolf for $97.50 for 1K, so I bought some. I've shot it in the past and wasn't thrilled with the accuracy or the red sealant(it was alway reliable for me though). But for plinking I think it will be fine. What can I say, I was desperate.[BD]. I never liked shooting up my XM193 and Q3131A. I won't feel so bad about blasting away with this stuff. 10 cents a round is pretty cheap, cheaper than I can reload. |
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Let me see if I can adequately express what a lot of users of "cheap" ammo believe: When you buy a certain type of product, you can opt to spend more money to get a "better" product. You can buy a 27" Apex from Wal Mart for $140, or you can spend twice as much and more for a Sony. You can obviously point out the fact that the more expensive model will have more features, better image quality, etc. When it comes to ammo, however, and especially ammo which is meant for plinking, a different set of rules applies for most of us. Certainly M193 is manufactured with better materials and has (probably) better quality control. In the end though, if it goes "bang" and the bullets end up where you reasonably are aiming for, then mission accomplished. The extra money spent on M193 or SS109 is not worth the added features. Wolf works in my rifle, and I will continue to use it to lay down suppressive fire against communistg soda cans. In regards to the Polymer coating, I sent the following letter to Wolf: There have been some reports that Wolf has dropped the green lacquer coating and replaced it with a "polymer" coating. I was just interested if this is true, and if so, what the reason was for the change. Furthermore, if this new ammo indeed exists, I was wondering if it uses the red sealant around the case neck which appears to have been removed from recent batches of Wolf ammunition. The reply from Wolf was as follows: WOLF Performance Ammunition is changing from the green lacquer to the advancement of the polymer coating. We will be issuing press releases in the next few months introducing the new polymer coating and detailing its advantages and benefits. The red sealant is no longer put on several of our calibers including 7.62x39, .223, 9mm, .45 Auto, and 40 S&W. Thank you for your inquiry and interest in WOLF Performance Ammunition. Sincerely, WOLF Ammo Once this stuff is in circulation for a while, I'll add it to the ammo poll as a seperate entry if it's different enough. |
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I can definately vouch for it being pretty different, Zhukov. I just finished firing the last of the 1000 round case that I got when I first made this post and the results have been this. 1000 rounds fired through a Colt LE6920 and a total of 3 failures to feed. Thats it. A .03% failure rate. I will take those odds with any ammo. The clean up of the ammo shows to be obviously a little dirtier than most ammo but it's nothing that is too extreme. It cleans right off and there was no fouling of any of my rifle's components. I have closely inspected my bolt face, ejector and extractor since having fired all 1000 rounds of the steel cased ammo. There are no visible marks, scratches or signs of damage whatsoever. I will be using this ammo as my plinking staple from now on. |
| Local shows are pushing the "new" Wolf for $79.99 to $84.99 per 1K, There are a few early under loaded lots but the latest corrected lots are much hotter then the older version. It goes bang everytime and kills every piece of paper I throw up against it. I maybe cheap but the tin cans dont mind. |
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Quoted: Local shows are pushing the "new" Wolf for $79.99 to $84.99 per 1K, There are a few early under loaded lots but the latest corrected lots are much hotter then the older version. It goes bang everytime and kills every piece of paper I throw up against it. I maybe cheap but the tin cans dont mind. Wow, good deals in your neck of the woods. Thanks for the range report, MarineSniper8541, you shot those up fast(Only 100 rounds a day [:D]! How often did you clean your AR?? |
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Wow, ammunitionstore.com has high prices. I get mine for $85 per case at the gun shows here in Dallas. By the way.... ...fired another 300 rounds of polymer today doing weapon presentation drills. My weapon got pretty hot. No failures. Gave some of my ammo to a friend to try in his Bushmaster A2 (no M4 feed ramps). He had no failures either. If Wolf can overcome the stigma that has been placed on them by their old version of laquered ammo, they are going to make a killing selling this stuff. Maybe it will even drive the market price of other brands of ammo down. |
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Quoted: Wow, ammunitionstore.com has high prices. I get mine for $85 per case at the gun shows here in Dallas. Too bad. There's only one or two guys selling Wolf by the case at the Austin show, and the one with the better proces charges tax! What a ripoff. There's a guy selling Q3131A for $168/case out the door, and he has cheap 7.62x39, but 5.56 is a bad situation at our show. I'd buy a couple of cases for $85. Can you find out where those folks are? Maybe I can work something out.... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Wow, ammunitionstore.com has high prices. I get mine for $85 per case at the gun shows here in Dallas. Too bad. There's only one or two guys selling Wolf by the case at the Austin show, and the one with the better proces charges tax! What a ripoff. There's a guy selling Q3131A for $168/case out the door, and he has cheap 7.62x39, but 5.56 is a bad situation at our show. I'd buy a couple of cases for $85. Can you find out where those folks are? Maybe I can work something out.... Southwest Ammunition Supply Co. 206 W. Davis St. Mesquite, Tx 75149 (972)285-3644 Store Hours 10-6pm Wed-Fri 10-3pm Sat He charges $85 + tax for a case of the new Wolf. Tax takes it to about $95 out the door. They go to every gun show in the Dallas area. |
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