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Posted: 11/2/2007 5:31:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
“That's a nice group from the bench. Now let’s see you hit a grapefruit at 50 yards offhand.”
bigbore’s sig-line Multiple open-source references report that typical grapefruits range in diameter from 10 to 15 cm, with the median being 12.5 cm (or approximately 5 inches.) Since the public shooting ranges in my area do not allow the use of fresh fruit for targets, I needed to use a printed representation of the fruit in order to give the “Grapefruit Shoot” a try. As quickly as you can say “Google” I had a suitable graphic down-loaded. The diameter of the grapefruit pictured below is exactly 5 inches when printed from a .pdf file of the graphic.  Attached FileUsing my version of an A4 clone, topped with a Trijicon ACOG TA11, I fired a 10-shot group at the "grapefruit" from the standing off-hand position at 50 yards. I was able to keep all 10 rounds of the group “in the pulp.” You can down-load the .pdf file of the grapefruit and give the "Grapefruit Shoot" a try for yourself. (click here for download) At a distance of 50 yards, fire 10 shots in a row on the grapefruit target from the standing, offhand position (no support, no slings, no shooting coats) using any AR-15 with any sights you want.  Attached FileHere are a few gratuitous pics of my A4 clone.  Attached File Attached File............ For this next run of the Grapefruit Shoot I used my 14.5” Noveske N4 barreled carbine topped with an Aimpoint Micro T-1 red dot sight. Instead of using one grapefruit target for this run, I posted ten grapefruits on the backer at the 50 yard line. From a standing off-hand combat stance, I fired one shot at each of the ten grapefruits as a "ready, up" drill. Each individual shot was fired starting with the carbine in the low-ready position. The carbine was then brought quickly on to the target and the shot fired. I was able to keep all ten shots “in the pulp.”   Attached File Attached File......... |
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Posted: 11/2/2007 5:37:15 PM EDT
[#1]
I hereby certify that rifle suitable for duty. Nice job.
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Posted: 11/2/2007 5:39:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bigbore]
[#2]
I was thinking more like a 6" grapefruit, and with the first shot. Next time a group of friends are together, pin up 6" balloons at 50yds, and see how many can hit it with the first shot.
The "baloon drill" is one I run for a group of us who get together monthly. Get your guys in a single file line, 1st takes the shot and if he missed the next guy up takes the shot and so on until all the balloons are broke. Dont take your time, step up and shoot. I bet 8 out of 10 people on this fourm would miss with the first shot. |
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Posted: 11/2/2007 5:49:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Nice shooting!
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MA, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 5:59:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Offhand and with iron sights.
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Posted: 11/2/2007 6:03:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Sometimes I think 8 out of 10 people on this forum don't even have an AR-15. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 6:10:53 PM EDT
[#6]
CHEATER!!! |
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Posted: 11/2/2007 6:25:10 PM EDT
[#7]
I would miss on the first three shots, but that's why the AR15 somes with 30 round magazines!!!
Besides, I would never be able to just go up and shoot without coming here first and asking which AR15 to use first... 
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Posted: 11/2/2007 6:31:44 PM EDT
[#8]
I witnessed a man hit a slightly smaller grapefruit sized target (12x18 at 200 yards) off hand 8 times in a row after running a mile up a hill. It was Tim from Tactical Practical.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 6:32:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Shake up cans of cheap soda and use those. I hit like 11/12 of those on the first shot at 50 yds several months ago with an Eotech + 16" bull barrel from the seated position.
Is the cross-legged sitting position considered offhand?  Soda cans are so satisfying to shoot when they blow up.... |
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Posted: 11/2/2007 6:36:27 PM EDT
[#10]
When I'm on top of my game I can snap shoot a 3" group at 50 yards with an Aimpoint equipped rifle.
Thats not saying much about me, most of the guys on the firing line were doing the same. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 6:46:39 PM EDT
[#11]
With 54 year old eyes, iron sights are problematic at best.
10+ for red-dots! I've got a Kobra on my AK (no AR yet) and absolutely love it! I don't know why I didn't go with optics before! I'm pretty sure I could do the grapefruit challenge with the Kobra, but sincerely doubt my ability to do it with irons at 50 yards. |
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Posted: 11/2/2007 6:51:58 PM EDT
[#12]
+1 people are not impressed with offhand real life shooting as they are with benchrest bullshit accuracy anyway... going to a few IDPA shoots really showed how difficult in a simulated high stress environment it can be to engage targets rapidly and accurately... balloon shoots or even swinging metal targets are crazy... as the balloons/targets sway it is very hard to keep focused on your front sight and very easy to spend an entire magazine... 
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Posted: 11/2/2007 7:08:30 PM EDT
[#13]
shiiiiiiit. I shoot with these g** damn good old boys they haven't ever heard of "bench" shooting. It's usually shoot at stuff on the ground. Great way to piss away .223 ammo
fiend RV-1 KeenEdge etc. M16A4 clone? Hardly. It's very Marine SAM-R style; which is tits man. tits. damn im drunk |
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Posted: 11/2/2007 7:12:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thedoctors308]
[#14]
...
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 7:15:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Standing, off hand shooting is a LOT harder than most people realize. That's a great group for standing.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 7:27:35 PM EDT
[#16]
thedoctors308: I'm up for it as long as I can use the AK (no AR yet).
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 7:39:47 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm sooo disappointed, here I was expecting blown up fruit! Someone blow a watermelon up or something
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Posted: 11/2/2007 8:07:21 PM EDT
[#18]
If ya ain't cheatn' you ain't tryn' |
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Posted: 11/2/2007 8:47:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Nice shooting and a neat target idea!
I watched my ex's dad put 3 rounds into less than an inch at 100 offhand with irons once..with an old swiss mauser that was sporterized. I don't know if it was pure luck, skill, or both, but I really tried hard to stay on his good side. Now that I gots me a daughter I guess I'd better practice too.. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 9:15:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#20]
Well, if you're not that good when you take your daughters courting boys shooting. Just rapid fire your AR jump around like a madman and just appear unstable in general.  And say things like, "Man, I'd really like to find out what a guy would look like after I shot him with this."
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NY, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 9:16:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Shooting offhand is the way to go! We train 4x's yr (2 mandatory) w/ our cops and AR's. 2 Yrs ago the course was changed from simple static shooting to running and gunnin. What a difference it makes!!
I myself had an issue w/ the 5.56 offhand. I had been mostly shooting Marlin 45/70 (one of my fav's) and a Marlin 450 w/ some 30.06 and 308 in the mix. Marlins were iron sights w/ the 30.06 & 308 scoped. Crazy but I got so use to the 45/70 offhand I developed a flinch w/ the lighter rounds...It caused me issues w/ 5.56 I had to overcome. I learned that I cannot shoot the heavy's and expect the 5.56 to be in a decent group offhand. For the last yr I have been shooting 5.56/223, 6.8, & 308 (out of AR-10 & MiA) exclusively. No issues anymore. I just bought a Noveske 5.56 w/ Troy flip front & rear sights. WOW!! Now I know why there 250 bucks a set. WORTH IT. Nice set up. |
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Posted: 11/2/2007 9:31:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Well, I am an ARFCOMMER....I think I got that part covered. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2007 10:00:11 PM EDT
[#23]
I am trying this when I go to the range tomarrow!
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Posted: 11/2/2007 10:02:40 PM EDT
[#24]
taint easy, takes practice
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Posted: 11/2/2007 10:21:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thedoctors308]
[#25]
...
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Posted: 11/2/2007 10:23:30 PM EDT
[#26]
I warm up for deer hunting in a similar way. my local range has a 12" gong at 100yds.....just happens to be the approximate size of the vitals on a large whitetail. I miss occasionally, but am definately over the 75% hit mark....again, this is off hand. shooting from sitting/kneeling/prone/ brased post i rarley miss. also, this is with a couple of rifles that i have shot alot and am very comfortable with.....i can't do it with all of them, even though all the rifle are capable of performing.
advntrjnky |
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Posted: 11/2/2007 10:30:42 PM EDT
[#27]
I've got to do this with my .50 Beowulf. It wouldn't even be a challenge with my .223. I'll post the results.
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Posted: 11/2/2007 10:50:15 PM EDT
[#28]
That grapefruit looks juicy and delicious. Well, the "before" pic anyway
.
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Posted: 11/2/2007 11:41:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Dude I know What you mean! Mike |
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Posted: 11/3/2007 3:54:01 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 11/3/2007 8:00:18 AM EDT
[#31]
I can wack bowling pins all day off hand.
all my rifles are zeroed for 25m and are great "minute of man" shooters at 100+ yards |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2007 10:12:45 AM EDT
[#32]
It's a good thing you guys service and equipment is so good. Otherwise some of us might get offended. I think I know what his point is though. Some of us talk more than shoot. I'd be one of them. I don't think I could hit that first shot. Maybe I'll to go try. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2007 10:28:50 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 11/3/2007 10:38:27 AM EDT
[#34]
However, this is one particularly good idea-focus on a kill-zone-sized target at a tactical distance, look at first shot results and adjust accordingly. Balloons, grapefruit, whatever. Cool indeed. I'll have to put together a good 5" circle target for practice (one that uses a lot less toner than a picture of a grapefruit). |
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Posted: 11/3/2007 10:49:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: james1058]
[#35]
Not an Ar but check out the "Shattermellons" video other videos there are ok too I have taken my daughter out to shoot with me, we stopped by the store and bought some coconuts, pineapples, cantaloupes, watermelon and a bag of apples. With several different weapons, including the AR, we preceded to destroy the produce. I will have to say the DE 44 mag done the best work on the watermelon. Range was 25-50 yards. Not all were 1st hit shots but it made for a fun day plus showed my daughter how devastating each caliper was. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2007 1:33:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Guten Morgan,
I love this site for all the discussion that goes on. I use kneeling a lot (25yds range) for the testing of my reloads and plinking. I have found there is a difference in accuracy, kneeling vs. bench, and it has to do with the pressure between the barrel and connecting receiver. This applies very much so to my Lever Action Rifles accuracy and point of impact. The kneeling position gives me a good indication how accurate the reload is, if the group is small (holes touching) it is a very good indication the reload will perform small groups at 50yds and 100yds. Once in a while I will use the corner of my pickup box (set at an angle to the target) for a steady rest or the wooden bench (at my favorite range) “just to see how accurate” the rifle/handgun might be. The off hand position with or with out a sling is my other favorite firing position. I think, most of what I’ve learned using the kneeling position applies to the standing position. Hitting a grape fruit at 50yds is a piece of cake in the standing position, but try it after running or an up hill scurry to the firing line, that’s a different story. Auf wiedersehen. |
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Posted: 11/3/2007 1:39:10 PM EDT
[#37]
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SD, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2007 1:45:03 PM EDT
[#38]
I love it, that's good.
Thank for making my day. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/3/2007 2:05:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Your rifle looks like a Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle (SAM-R) not an a4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle 
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KS, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2007 3:33:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Does hitting the broad side of a full ATX computer case at 30 feet about 20% of the time count?
The first time I shot my AR pistol, I was about 15 yards from my target (a broken joystick). I didn't hit it once with a full magazine. Now that I have a red dot sight and it is adjusted to be accurate at such ranges, I can keep my shots within about an inch or so at that distance. My iron sights were WAAAAAAAY off. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2007 4:29:47 PM EDT
[#41]
those Rio red Texas grapefruits shure are tastey ,you ought switch to the nasty white ones and save them Texas Red's for eating .
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HI, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2007 1:22:49 AM EDT
[#42]
Sure, as long as youre elbows arent resting on your knees/thighs. |
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Posted: 11/4/2007 10:22:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2stage]
[#43]
So, why was this thread moved here to the "optics, mounts, and sights" forum when Molon originally posted it in the "AR discussions" forum
 
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Posted: 11/4/2007 12:01:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: new-arguy]
[#44]
I was wondering the same thing? Anyway, this sounds fun... I'll have to try it for sure. I think I'll do ok. We often have shoot off's like this at FDCC. We're usually using little clay birds though. I think at our last match we did something just like this where we were shooting against two othr shooters, starting with an empty gun in one hand and a mag with three rounds in the other. At the whistle, you had to load your gun and hit the clay. You only had three rounds to do it. First person to make a hit moved to the next level until there was just one shooter left! |
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Posted: 11/4/2007 5:04:29 PM EDT
[#45]
WTF? This has nothing to do with optics? |
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Posted: 11/4/2007 5:06:53 PM EDT
[#46]
moving it back to general AR...
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Posted: 11/4/2007 8:49:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Sitting does not count - it must be done standing up. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 11/5/2007 12:32:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GUTS]
[#48]
Practice makes perfect. In our clubs lever action matches I shoot a 70 year old Winchester model 64. There's no problem hitting the little chickens at 50 meters, the pigs at 100, the turkeys at 150 or the rams at 200. Shooting offhand with iron sights in the wind we have here in South Dakota will make a shooter out of you for sure!
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/5/2007 9:50:29 AM EDT
[#49]
I've always wanted to do that. It sounds like alot of fun!!!!!! |
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Posted: 11/5/2007 9:57:18 AM EDT
[#50]
Great idea Molon - I've printed up my copies. I'm going to try with both my Recce and an M4/EOTech.
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