Posted: 12/30/2008 8:15:48 PM EDT
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Corps moves to replace M249
Staff report Posted : Monday Dec 29, 2008 15:46:38 EST The Corps has awarded four contracts to three companies to produce prototypes of the 5.56mm Infantry Automatic Rifle, which is slated to supplant the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, or SAW, according a Dec. 26 Marine Corps Systems Command announcement. The three firms will compete for a contract that could be worth up to $27 million. The firm selected will manufacture between 4,476 and 6,500 rifles. The three companies are: • FN Herstal of Herstal, Belgium. • Heckler and Koch Defense of Ashburn, Va. • Colt Defense of West Hartford, Conn. Colt received two contracts because it has two candidate weapons sufficiently different to warrant separate evaluations, according to SysCom. “Each [company] will produce and deliver a minimum of 10 weapons. The Marine Corps will next evaluate these weapons and then intends to select one weapon system from one company to meet the IAR requirement,” Marine officials said in a news release. The IAR is a lightweight, magazine-fed weapon. It will provide a one-for-one replacement of the M249 in Marine rifle squads within infantry battalions and in the scout teams in light armored reconnaissance battalions. The weapons will be tested by infantry Marines as SysCom works to solicit input from throughout the operating forces, the release states. Marines closer to choosing next-generation rifle By Kevin Baron, Stars and Stripes European edition, Saturday, December 27, 2008 ARLINGTON, VA. — The Marine Corps has moved one step closer to selecting a next-generation light automatic rifle. On Friday, the Marine Corps Systems Command in Quantico, Va., announced contract awards for three competing weapons manufacturers to produce and deliver their final entries to the Corps by the middle of next year, in what signifies a final round of competition that began with ten candidates. The lighter, magazine-fed Infantry Automatic Rifle — or IAR — is intended to replace the belt-fed M249 Squad Automatic Weapon — or SAW — in “the Marine Rifle Squad within infantry battalions and in the scout teams in Light Armored Reconnaissance battalions.” But the rifle will not be for all Marines, according to a statement by MARSYSCOM spokesman Bill Johnson-Miles. The Pentagon requested up to 10 samples of a 5.56 mm IAR prototype from FN Herstal, which would be made in Belgium; Heckler and Koch Defense, which is based in Ashburn, Va., but whose samples would be made in Germany, the home country of the parent company; and two entries from Colt Defense, made in West Hartford, Conn. The rifles will then undergo limited testing by infantry Marines. Under the five-year contracts, the Pentagon could tap the winning entrant for an acquisition of 4,476 rifles, with an option to purchase up to 6,500 copies at a possible value of $28 million for FN Herstal or Heckler & Koch, or $24 million for Colt. The SAW, which is manufactured by FN Manufacturing, the US subsidiary of Belgium’s FN Herstal, weighs 16.5 pounds and fires 750 rounds per minute. The lighter IAR candidate from FNH USA, for example, weighs in at 10.4 pounds and fires 650 rounds per minute. Spokesmen from Heckler & Koch’s Ashburn, Va., office and FNH USA, in McLean, Va., did not return calls to Stars and Stripes. The rifles are scheduled for deployable use in December 2010. |
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So what advantages do you get from going to a magazine fed from a belt-fed? Seems like you would give up a lot of firepower (i.e 200 rd box mags). I'm in the Air Force so please enlighten me. SAW could fire Magazine too.... Not very well if I remember correctly, but was an option. I see that FN is in the running for a replacement....Don't they already make the SAW ??? |
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SAW could fire Magazine too.... Not very well if I remember correctly, but was an option. I see that FN is in the running for a replacement....Don't they already make the SAW ??? FN makes our M249 SAWs and the 240G that we use. Quoted:
What I heard is that the standard M16 mags couldn't keep up with the ROF on the SAW. We didn't have any problems firing our ParaSaws with magazines, but ours were in pretty good shape though. From some other articles I thought this IAR was supposed to augment/supplement the squad/fireteam, not replace the belt fed. |
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So whats the logic behind reducing capacity from 200 to 30? If that is correct? The SAWs my reserve unit has can barely fire 30 without jamming anyway, so it'd be no great loss.  OK Supposing it didn't jam, the user is going to have to drop the mag and reload to continue firing 6+ times to get the same longevity as the 200rd drums? I don't have any experience. It just seems curious to me... |
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So whats the logic behind reducing capacity from 200 to 30? If that is correct? The SAWs my reserve unit has can barely fire 30 without jamming anyway, so it'd be no great loss. OK Supposing it didn't jam, the user is going to have to drop the mag and reload to continue firing 6+ times to get the same longevity as the 200rd drums? I don't have any experience. It just seems curious to me... Oh, no, I agree. I also want to see where they're going with this. I was just complaining about our horrible gear. 
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From what I understand, this system is easier to do room clearing with, and allows the automatic rifleman to blend in with the rest of his fireteam. I guess guys toting around SAWs are drawing more than their fair share of fire.
And it doesn't replace the SAW, it is issued along side it. Anyway, I'm all for the Marines getting their hands on new gear. They usually pull hind tit when it comes to equipment. |
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Who the hell designed that stock on the FN? That's the same one on the ACR and SCAR. That thing is hideous. Someone intelligent who felt that the stock should be functional and that aesthetics weren't as important as functionality. That's who. Oh, bullshit. That thing is no more functional than any other AR folding stock and bigger as well. Of course, why you would want a folding stock on a machine gun is beyond me. |
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So what advantages do you get from going to a magazine fed from a belt-fed? Seems like you would give up a lot of firepower (i.e 200 rd box mags). I'm in the Air Force so please enlighten me. In another thread on this subject, I think it was said that the IAR will fire closed bolt in semi, and open bolt in automatic, so you get an accurate first shot. Enhanced cooling also. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/22/colt-infantry-automatic-rifle-iar/ |
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FWIW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LWRC_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle The LWRC (LWRCI) Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR) is a variant of the LWRC SRT, which is in turn, based on the AR platform (specifically the M4 Carbine). It is designed to fulfill the role of the squad automatic weapon. Like the LWRC SRT, the LWRC IAR utilizes a gas-piston design in lieu of the AR's direct impingement design.[1] It was developed for the United States Marine Corps Infantry Automatic Rifle program, which seeks to replace the M249 SAW with a lighter, more reliable and durable 5.56mm weapon.[2] The weapon fires from a closed bolt in semi-automatic mode, and from an open bolt during full automatic mode which is labeled as "OBA" for Open Bolt Automatic. While in OBA mode, the first round may be fired from a closed bolt (it will then lock back and subsequent shots will be from an open bolt until the operator manually closes the bolt again). Firing from an open bolt increases cooling and eliminates the potential for accidental discharges due to rounds "cooking off" in an overheated chamber. It also allows for a faster rate of fire. However an open bolt design means that the first round fired will have reduced accuracy when compared to a closed bolt design. This is due to the fact that when the trigger is pulled, the bolt slams forward under spring tension, stripping a round from the feeding device, chambering it, then firing it. This sequence of events shakes the firearm and takes a (possibly crucial) split second longer than a closed bolt design to fire the first round (greater lock time). This also introduces extra potential points of failure in the ignition of the first round. The IAR's ability to fire from both modes allows the gunner to deploy the weapon in OBA mode with a round chambered on a closed bolt. This allows the gunner to fire his first round as accurately, reliably, and quickly as a rifleman, while following that initial round with Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) level of fire[1] The plan is to have the USMC buy 4100 IARs to replace 2000 of the Corps SAWs. This will reduce the number of SAWs in the marine corps from 10,000 to 8000. The remaining 8000 M249s will be kept in service, as the M249 will not completely go away in the USMC. The Army has ruled out the option of replacing the SAW with the IAR, because it would result in a loss of fire going from 200 round belts to 30 round mags, and instead is looking into a new belt feed light machine gun such as the MK 46 LMG. [1] The weapon was featured on the Discovery Channel show "Future Weapons" during its third season, under the first episode "Firepower". |
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Who the hell designed that stock on the FN? That's the same one on the ACR and SCAR. That thing is hideous. Someone intelligent who felt that the stock should be functional and that aesthetics weren't as important as functionality. That's who. Oh, bullshit. That thing is no more functional than any other AR folding stock and bigger as well. Of course, why you would want a folding stock on a machine gun is beyond me. A folding stock would be handy when mounting and dismounting vehicles, or when firing through a vehicle window. |
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No belt fed? I don't get it. Why not just give some guys full auto M16s with better barrels? +1 This does not compute with me either. Surely they would need to increase the capacity of the magazine. Maybe a beefed up Beta or in the very least a 50rd magazine? |
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Of course, why you would want a folding stock on a machine gun is beyond me. Guess you have never seen a parasaw. 
When the bitch is retracted its the size of an M4. Ever try to get out of a humvee with all of your gear on, iba,ammo,water,etc, with a full size saw. These things make it a bit easier. Here is the kind we used on our saws 
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| the current SAW can use the m16/m4 magazines but i thought that the rounds themselves werent the same i thought that the SAW round was more powerful to cycle the weapon. you can use the m16 rounds in a SAW but not the SAW rounds in an m16. at least thats what we were told in basic training. |
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the current SAW can use the m16/m4 magazines but i thought that the rounds themselves werent the same i thought that the SAW round was more powerful to cycle the weapon. you can use the m16 rounds in a SAW but not the SAW rounds in an m16. at least thats what we were told in basic training. Thats a big Negatron 
They are the same M855 and M856 that we load our mags with, no difference. I really get mad at the Drill Instructor/Drill Sergeant myths that get taught in boot for both the Army and the Marines. Can't use a .50 against troops, if a .50 passes 6'' away from you it will take off your head, etc..... *edit* not knocking you TheBigAR2003, just letting you know. Thank you for your service 
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the current SAW can use the m16/m4 magazines but i thought that the rounds themselves werent the same i thought that the SAW round was more powerful to cycle the weapon. you can use the m16 rounds in a SAW but not the SAW rounds in an m16. at least thats what we were told in basic training. It is the same round. |
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I thought the purpose of a MG in a squad is to provide long streams of fire between reloads? To keep heads down and to push back rushes, wont limiting a weapon to 30 round mags defeat that purpose? Sure you can use those beta mags but arent those unreliable? And aside from that, arent large capacity mags horribly expensive in large numbers and are suppose to be disposable?
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I thought the purpose of a MG in a squad is to provide long streams of fire between reloads? To keep heads down and to push back rushes, wont limiting a weapon to 30 round mags defeat that purpose? Sure you can use those beta mags but arent those unreliable? And aside from that, arent large capacity mags horribly expensive in large numbers and are suppose to be disposable? +1. I was always told that the SAW was to provide suppression fire not accurate fire. That's what designated marksman are for. |
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