Armory Sponsor
Posted: 6/18/2014 9:50:09 AM EDT
|
Ok, I understand not many people use these dies, but I recently got a great deal on a mostly complete set. My set came without the expander die, and from online searching of people using the regular dies (not really this set) to make these shells, none seem to use an expander on them.
My question is, if you use this set, or one similar to make handgun shotshells, do you find that using an expander makes a difference, or do you skip it all together? I am thinking the expander might just be needed if you plan on using the plastic shotshell capsules instead of gaschecks or overshot wads. |
| I have a complete set I bought new decades ago when they first came out (late '70's?). If you always make your cases from scratch and don't reuse them, you don't need the expander. I haven't used these in over 20 years but seem to recall that when fired the brass didn't open up all the way and you needed the expander to reload. It's important that your load not burn through your wad and leave it stuck in the barrel. So use a cool burning powder like WW 231 and the thickest wads you can find. I think I used Remington shot cups. For top wads, the plastic they recommended is no good if you want these to survive much handling. I used .375 rifle gas checks inverted over the shot. |
| Perfect. I am not sure how many I would end up shooting anyways besides the normal load development to make sure it cycles and patterns relatively well. Figured these would be nice to have in an extra mag or 2 when walking around my uncles property. Currently I am just using damaged 308 brass to trim to length, so really no real reason to reuse the brass other than it is a little time consuming to make, but its not like i need to make up 1000 of them. |
|
I bought half a box of 45 shot shells made with these dies at a gun show. Went to South Dakota on a prairie dog shoot and took my P220 and some of these shells. Tried them out for function and effectiveness on a pop can at about 10 feet. Pistol cycled, fully reloading and the pellets went through both sides off the pop can.
Long ago in Handloader magazine there was a detailed article about making 45 shot shells with these dies using cut down .308 brass. I would love to find an inexpensive set of the dies someday. |
|
I have seen the videos and actually got together an extra set of 45acp carbide dies and 40 S&W carbide dies to keep as a set just for making shotshells. Just got this set for $36 (Sizer, seater and form/trim die) so I could not pass it up even if it was missing the expander. I may just buy the expander assembly part and use it in a regular 45acp expander die.In theory it should work as long as the tapered expander part is right.
I have a document that shows other powders to use besides W231 (6-6.2), but they claim it works the best. Can use 700x (4.5-5.0) bullseye (3.5-4.5), unique (5.5-6.5) and green dot (4.5-5.5) |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
Joined:
Jun 2007
Posts:
30789
EE: 100% (1)
WA, USA
|
The Ammo Channel has some very interesting stuff:
RCBS Dies [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LC4_UZfJZE[/youtube] Regular dies: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20OxFTP5XI[/youtube] For some reason they aren't working properly |
|
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?185253-Making-45acp-shotshells-%28My-Way%29 --Shows another way of using 40SW dies to accomplish the same thing.
http://avr-developers.com/45shotshell/ ---- Lots of links and info here |
|
Originally Posted By 19Charlie_84:
The Ammo Channel has some very interesting stuff: RCBS Dies  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LC4_UZfJZE
Regular dies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20OxFTP5XI
For some reason they aren't working properly That is awesome! Thanks for sharing! Made hot: 
|
NRA Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
Joined:
Jun 2007
Posts:
30792
EE: 100% (1)
WA, USA
|
slightly off topic....
i've tested both my own home rolled shot cartridges as well as commercial CCI Speer in 357, 45 and 44. My testing showed that the 44 cartridges were, by far, the most effective. Its purely a matter of payload. A 44 shot capsule simply holds a lot more shot than a similar smaller 358 diameter. Even with the larger payload, the 44's are maybe effective to about 20 feet. At 20 feet the centrifugal force of the rifling causes the shot to disperse rapidly, opening up holes in the pattern that an entire rabbit or grouse could fit in. You could completely center small game in the pattern, and not get a single pellet on a rabbit at 25 feet. The loads with shot caps seemed most effective. Its simple: The shot capsules as sold by Speer simply hold more shot than using the over and under wad method. The capsules extend significantly beyond the case mouth, permitting more shot payload. MY home rolled shot caps consisted of a mild charge of fast powder, as listed by Speer in the reload data for the shot caps, with a small cardboard wad cut from writing tablet cardboard backing. This is seated nice and level with a dowel. The case is filled to just below the case mouth with shot. Then another over-shot cardboard wad is placed in the case mouth and crimped heavily. These won't hold up to a lot of handling or abuse, but they work reasonably well. Wads are "cut" by drilling the primer flash hole out of an old case, using the case as a paper punch, and then pushing wads out of this punch case by use of a thin wire/nail/etc. These are okay in 44. I would not try them in 357.... payload would be too small to be worthwhile. I have not tried making 45 ACP. But commercial 45 shot caps as made by Speer are "okay". Again, the 20 foot rule... |
|
Originally Posted By frozenny:
slightly off topic.... i've tested both my own home rolled shot cartridges as well as commercial CCI Speer in 357, 45 and 44. My testing showed that the 44 cartridges were, by far, the most effective. Its purely a matter of payload. A 44 shot capsule simply holds a lot more shot than a similar smaller 358 diameter. Even with the larger payload, the 44's are maybe effective to about 20 feet. At 20 feet the centrifugal force of the rifling causes the shot to disperse rapidly, opening up holes in the pattern that an entire rabbit or grouse could fit in. You could completely center small game in the pattern, and not get a single pellet on a rabbit at 25 feet. The loads with shot caps seemed most effective. Its simple: The shot capsules as sold by Speer simply hold more shot than using the over and under wad method. The capsules extend significantly beyond the case mouth, permitting more shot payload. MY home rolled shot caps consisted of a mild charge of fast powder, as listed by Speer in the reload data for the shot caps, with a small cardboard wad cut from writing tablet cardboard backing. This is seated nice and level with a dowel. The case is filled to just below the case mouth with shot. Then another over-shot cardboard wad is placed in the case mouth and crimped heavily. These won't hold up to a lot of handling or abuse, but they work reasonably well. Wads are "cut" by drilling the primer flash hole out of an old case, using the case as a paper punch, and then pushing wads out of this punch case by use of a thin wire/nail/etc. These are okay in 44. I would not try them in 357.... payload would be too small to be worthwhile. I have not tried making 45 ACP. But commercial 45 shot caps as made by Speer are "okay". Again, the 20 foot rule... |
|
I'm completely confident you could make a shot cartridge in near any straight walled cartridge.Per the old speer shot cap reload data, lower pressures are better, and patterns are worse as pressure increases.
44-40 could work, but its almost not a straight wall. I think 38-40 could be troublesome, keeping the bottom wad straight. 45 colt? Sure. Absolutely. You could make them for 38-55, 375 Win, 357 Max, 454 Casull, etc. And I think 45-70 would actually be semi decent since you could get a boat-load of shot in the thing........ You aren't going to find shot caps (which are only a speer product) in anything but 38/357 44 and 45 colt, so its the over powder/under shot wad, shot, over shot wad, and crimp. You've always got 2 things working against you: Limited volume in the case for an adequate payload (so bigger cartridges are better). And barrel rifling spins the shot out like a centrifuge, opening patterns. I suspect this is why various companies offered smoothbore 'rifles' around the turn of the century, in cartridges like 44 (as made by Savage, stevens and others IIRC). Many were labelled and marketed as "garden guns" for popping those bunnies. |
Armory Sponsor
Join the Community
Your next conversation starts here.
Create your free account to join discussions, share your experience, save topics, and connect with the AR15.COM community.
- Join discussions
- Follow topics and replies
- Connect with fellow enthusiasts
Already a member? Sign in
Stay informed by subscribing to our Newsletter