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Posted: 5/21/2012 1:01:23 PM EDT
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It's out of warranty. And anyways, this is the replacement. I've worn it out too. Um... I trim ALOT of brass.
I've got a couple of brushes on the way. And I'm looking for replacement bearings now as it appears to have a little bit of shaft play. Only other thing I think I need is a commutator stone. So I'm thinking about getting this commutator cleaning kit from mcmaster-carr for $38, item 5951T11. What tips or tricks or warnings can the hive lay on me? |
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ok, it's definitely a bearing issue. Upper bearing seems fine. Lower bearing is a real rattle-trap.
Now... how to remove the bearings. They look pressed on to the shaft. Bearings on there are 7R6 Is there a precision alternative I should consider? 3/8 shaft, 7/8 OD, 9/32 thick. And they should be high RPM http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/3-8inch/R6ZZ-1 These look cheap enough at 3 bucks apiece... |
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Cool, thanks man.
I think I might go with double shield instead of double seal, tho. The original bearings are shielded, possibly because of how fast the motor spins. I'll definitely keep those links in mind, tho. Looking at getting a babby bearing puller to get these old ones off, now... |
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It would be nice to machine out the lower for this bearing . Seems it would last a lot longer. The lower bearing is the 1st to go. Seems like the brass shavings take their share of the toll on the bearing. http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7095 What's the advantage in having that flange? The flange would have to go on top, wouldn't it? I think what killed mine was .300 blk forming. Possibly too fast of a feed rate. I'm going to have to pot the housing for my lower bearing with some devcon steel putty, because the outer race was actually spinning somewhat. There's some scoring on the bearing and the housing. 
Thanks for the suggestions. eta: Oh, did you heat your replacement bearings up at all to get them on the shaft? |
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It would be nice to machine out the lower for this bearing . Seems it would last a lot longer. The lower bearing is the 1st to go. Seems like the brass shavings take their share of the toll on the bearing. http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7095 What's the advantage in having that flange? Better support heavier duty bearing tooThe flange would have to go on top, wouldn't it? yes I think what killed mine was .300 blk forming. Possibly too fast of a feed rate. I'm going to have to pot the housing for my lower bearing with some devcon steel putty, because the outer race was actually spinning somewhat. There's some scoring on the bearing and the housing.
Thanks for the suggestions. eta: Oh, did you heat your replacement bearings up at all to get them on the shaft? NO heat. I did put the armature in the freezer once though. It didn't seem to make much of a differance . I have access to a press. Just made some tools out of washers and pipe to press the bearings. There are some spacers above the lower bearing. They will fall off once the bearing has been removed. The communitor sp? cleans up easy with some 1500 wet or dry sand paper. Having rebuilt one of my motors 3 times now I can tell you it works just fine. |
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bearings: http://www.drillspot.com/products/909066/bearings_limited_r6-2rs_single_row_-_double_seal_radial_ball_bearing Brushes: http://estore.vonweise.com/v00212aoajbrushkitcontains6k05618-005brushes-1-2-2-1.aspx You sure about those brushes EWP? The dillon motor brushes measure .180x.304 These appear to be alot closer: http://store.eurtonelectric.com/18x30x62brush538h.aspx http://store.eurtonelectric.com/18x30x65brush538.aspx Except that the shunt wire length is too long for both. It's hard to measure without taking one apart to get around the spring, but the wire size on a stock dillon motor brush appears to be .875 long. |
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Quoted: I'm thinking that there ought to be a web page somewhere about hotrodding these things.Quoted: bearings: http://www.drillspot.com/products/909066/bearings_limited_r6-2rs_single_row_-_double_seal_radial_ball_bearing Brushes: http://estore.vonweise.com/v00212aoajbrushkitcontains6k05618-005brushes-1-2-2-1.aspx You sure about those brushes EWP? The dillon motor brushes measure .180x.304 These appear to be alot closer: http://store.eurtonelectric.com/18x30x62brush538h.aspx http://store.eurtonelectric.com/18x30x65brush538.aspx Except that the shunt wire length is too long for both. It's hard to measure without taking one apart to get around the spring, but the wire size on a stock dillon motor brush appears to be .875 long.  |
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I'm thinking that there ought to be a web page somewhere about hotrodding these things.
Quoted:
bearings: http://www.drillspot.com/products/909066/bearings_limited_r6-2rs_single_row_-_double_seal_radial_ball_bearing Brushes: http://estore.vonweise.com/v00212aoajbrushkitcontains6k05618-005brushes-1-2-2-1.aspx You sure about those brushes EWP? The dillon motor brushes measure .180x.304 These appear to be alot closer: http://store.eurtonelectric.com/18x30x62brush538h.aspx http://store.eurtonelectric.com/18x30x65brush538.aspx Except that the shunt wire length is too long for both. It's hard to measure without taking one apart to get around the spring, but the wire size on a stock dillon motor brush appears to be .875 long.
I'll post pics of my heatsink modded one later. 
And since the warranty is out on it, I'm considering what reefer said about beefier bearings. It looks like the housing for the lower bearing is actually deep enough to accomodate a taller bearing. It appears to be so that the wavy spring in there has a little bit of room. 
The grey tint is thermal paste in the pores. The zip ties work well enough looped through the fins and around the bottom of the brush housings. If one wanted to get really secure, you could forgo these bolt head reliefs and just drill all the way through the heat sink, bolting heat sink, motor top, and motor base together as a single unit. With a small fan blowing across the fins, the motor takes much, much longer to heat up. |
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Just a quick-n-dirty. My skillz with a camera make me either a Renoir or Picasso, Vs. an Ansel Adams.  I'd like to find a different electrical connector so I could move the top electrical connection to the slot on the side, while retaining the ability to screw a quick connect plug together. That'd let me run the heat sink across the whole top of the RT. |
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i used to use some ceramic bearings in one of my nitro rc truggies. they lasted much longer for the clutch than steel ball bearings.
Might be worth the extra dollars to try them before modding the motor. If you cant find the size you need you could google Avid RC bearings or Boca bearings. Boca is in Fl
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Just a quick-n-dirty. My skillz with a camera make me either a Renoir or Picasso, Vs. an Ansel Adams. http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=40150 I'd like to find a different electrical connector so I could move the top electrical connection to the slot on the side, while retaining the ability to screw a quick connect plug together. That'd let me run the heat sink across the whole top of the RT. You could take that rubber side-plug out and cast an epoxy housing on and around it for the quick-connect plug to seat into. Then just drill holes through it for the wires to pass through. Either use a cylinder slightly smaller than the OD of the quick-connect plug as your mold or just cast a solid plug of epoxy on top of the rubber plug into a PVC form and then drill it out to your desired dimension with a forstner bit. Make sure you use a good release agent for whatever you don't want to be permanently stuck to epoxy. Or if you wanted to go real simple, if you could find a piece of PVC pipe the right diameter, you could just glue it onto the rubber side-plug. I like the cpu fan on yours. I could probably do that on mine, but it would have to be off-set. Right now I'm just using a desk fan clipped to my case-feed bowl to move air across the fins. |
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GlobalWin huh? Must have had an overclocked Celeron back in the day! Cool mod! I have been thinking of retrofitting another motor to mine as well. I think the stock motors are 5000 RPMs. jonblack I think there might be a limitation as far as weight goes. Consider what the motor is threaded into and how heavy it already is. Any heavier and I think you might run the risk of tearing up your press head. Which is a shame. one thing I think this motor could be improved with is a steel, threaded sleeve instead of the aluminum threads it has now. If you get a big clump of brass wound around the shaft, it could scour away those threads that aren't engaged into the die over time. Depending on how much weight it might add, I might see about taking this out-of-warranty one over to a machinist and seeing how feasible it would be to do. This would also afford me the opportunity to mod for a beefier lower bearing at the same time. |
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Regarding the fan mod: I should have mentioned that it keeps the top end about 40* cooler, and the painted black barrel about 20* cooler. The epoxy plug cast into the slot is a great idea. I've got zero hands-on experience with the materials, but I'll do some reading. Thanks for the tip.  |
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In starting to resource another motor I came across this .
http://www.blackfoxresearch.com/Reloading.html |
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Quoted: Just... WoW.In starting to resource another motor I came across this . http://www.blackfoxresearch.com/Reloading.html  The concept of a company addressing the specifics. |
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Just... WoW.
In starting to resource another motor I came across this .
http://www.blackfoxresearch.com/Reloading.html
The concept of a company addressing the specifics. Let me start by saying " I know Jack Shit he is a close personal friend ". But I'm always learning. Now my personal opinion Cooling these motors will accomplish little to nothing. Trimming 300 BLK brass with them is asking way to much of them. My best advice is to find a replacement motor in DC that would be a HIGH speed brush less type. It will cost more but will out last these motors by a very long shot. It can also be run longer and harder.
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Those brushes are wrong.
Carbon Brush Kit Fits all Dillon trimmers with Von Weise motors. Contains (2) carbon block brushes with no spring or lead. 1/4 x 5/16 x 3/4 Von Weise part #K09128-0009 That model of von weise brushes is .625 long. Not .750 long. Not that the length is particularly critical... Anyways, the dillon motor brushes are .180 x .304. NOT .250 by .312. Those brushes won't fit. This brush in the link below is cross sectionally correct, albiet an 1/8 of an inch short. The shunt wire is a bit too long, tho. So I assume the spring is, as well. If the spring pressure is too much, I imagine you could shorten the spring a bit http://store.eurtonelectric.com/18x30x65brush538.aspx |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just... WoW.
In starting to resource another motor I came across this .
http://www.blackfoxresearch.com/Reloading.html
The concept of a company addressing the specifics. Let me start by saying " I know Jack Shit he is a close personal friend ". But I'm always learning. Now my personal opinion Cooling these motors will accomplish little to nothing. Trimming 300 BLK brass with them is asking way to much of them. My best advice is to find a replacement motor in DC that would be a HIGH speed brush less type. It will cost more but will out last these motors by a very long shot. It can also be run longer and harder.
It's more of a peace of mind thing, for me as far as cooling goes. I think MAYBE it might be beneficial to the bearings, simply because it keeps the lube from breaking down as fast from heat. I've worn out a few of these, and it seems like they last a tad long if they're kept reasonably cool. I think I'll end up seeing about modding the dillon motor instead of going with a new motor. A good machinist could make a stainless steel threaded insert for the bases, already machined to accept a beefier bearing. Then it's just a matter of turning down the bore of the motor base and pressing in the insert. I like how serviceable and available replacement parts are for these motors. The only real advantage to going brushless is that you don't have to replace brushes. Which isn't much of a hardship to begin with. |
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Quoted: I was just truly amazed that the parts were being addressed commercially in a user friendly format.Quoted: Quoted: Just... WoW.In starting to resource another motor I came across this . http://www.blackfoxresearch.com/Reloading.html The concept of a company addressing the specifics. Let me start by saying " I know Jack Shit he is a close personal friend ". But I'm always learning. Now my personal opinion Cooling these motors will accomplish little to nothing. Trimming 300 BLK brass with them is asking way to much of them. My best advice is to find a replacement motor in DC that would be a HIGH speed brush less type. It will cost more but will out last these motors by a very long shot. It can also be run longer and harder. And I'm going the 'cut 'em off with a band saw, then run them through a Bradswarehouse die to form and trim the 300BLK' route. I was cutting them off just AT the bottom of the neck, and 'I guess that was still too much brass to trim, because it ate my blades more quickly than I had discounted. That was the reason for the original blade question, and I appreciate learning more about blades, bearings and lanolin in the last week than I puzzled out before and would have guessed at over at least the next 6 months. |
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You can use a woodworking bandsaw if you use a very fine tooth blade.
I'm thinking about making an automated sled for mine. Just a stepper powered leadscrew pushing a jig through the blade at a set speed. A use I'm nearly 100% sure no one at emc2 figured their controller would be put to.
Yes. One 16 oz bottle of 99% ipa and one 4 oz bottle of "Now" brand liquid lanolin equals dillon case lube. One of the best cost-saving ideas I ever stole off the internet. Something else I read on here that I did yesterday. Drill and tap the motor lock nut through one of the flats with a #8-32 set screw. Um... drill it with one number size larger drill than what the chart calls for. Otherwise it's kind of difficult and you could end up breaking the tap off in the hole. I tried a #6 tap first and drilled it "exactly" to the size called for by the drill/tap chart. Wound up snapping the tap off in the nut. When you go to install the set screw, drop a piece of lead shot in the hole first. The lead mushes into the threads and helps lock the nut in place, rock solid. Protects the die threads, too. With that nut tightened in place with that set screw, I don't have to use a wrench to hold the nut in place at all! I can just tighten the motor against it by hand. Lots of convenience in this for how simple it is to do. |
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Those brushes are wrong. Carbon Brush Kit Fits all Dillon trimmers with Von Weise motors. Contains (2) carbon block brushes with no spring or lead. 1/4 x 5/16 x 3/4 Von Weise part #K09128-0009 That model of von weise brushes is .625 long. Not .750 long. Not that the length is particularly critical... Anyways, the dillon motor brushes are .180 x .304. NOT .250 by .312. Those brushes won't fit. This brush in the link below is cross sectionally correct, albiet an 1/8 of an inch short. The shunt wire is a bit too long, tho. So I assume the spring is, as well. If the spring pressure is too much, I imagine you could shorten the spring a bit http://store.eurtonelectric.com/18x30x65brush538.aspx Those 1st brushes are for the older model trimmers. These are down the page. Carbon Brush Kit Fits Dillon detachable-cord, 115v DC motors, 2003 and newer. Contains (2) carbon block brushes with integral spring or lead. 3/16 x 5/16 x 3/4 Price: $16.00 Order BLACK FOX # BR 010-DC |
It has done well though, that motor must have done over 300K 5.56.
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Something shorted out. Must be the armature. I had been taking it easy on the motor after the last rebuild. Only running it for 1/2 HR or so at a time. I'll need to do something about it this week. As this leaves me running one machine to process brass with. If your buddy can come up with a brushless replacement he will get rich (er) quick. In the RC hobby, brushless is far superior to anything else. On a side note. edit for COC violation, Specific to Sales #2. dryflash3 Was not asking to buy ANYTHING !!! Just need to ask him questions if he has a 300acc blackout rifle. nothing more I dont even own anything that shoots 300 aac blk 
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Quoted: That sink has slots cut through the fins, and a downdraft fan, so the air comes out on all 4 sides.Kaos... have you considered mounting your CPU fan to the side of the heatsink? So the air is drawn horizontally across the fins rather than vertically, I mean. |
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Quoted: I'm sure slots can be cut, but then you have to incorporate a fan to power-vent the unit, or it's just passive ventilation.Are those motors TE, cant they be vented on the end bell? And blowing or sucking metal chips through the unit is something you have to design to avoid. I was trying to make it happen, but my machining options are limited anymore. I believe Reef is close to the point about cooling not being the holy grail, but I don't mind thinking that some cooling is reasonably beneficial. |
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I'm sure slots can be cut, but then you have to incorporate a fan to power-vent the unit, or it's just passive ventilation.
Are those motors TE, cant they be vented on the end bell? And blowing or sucking metal chips through the unit is something you have to design to avoid. I was trying to make it happen, but my machining options are limited anymore. I believe Reef is close to the point about cooling not being the holy grail, but I don't mind thinking that some cooling is reasonably beneficial. heat sink and fan on the end cap is plenty, imo. |
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Are those motors TE, cant they be vented on the end bell? You should know as well as anyone here that. VDC motors are made to run at their designed temperature. Bottom line these motors are not made for continuous duty. Even Dillon will tell you to run them 1/2 HR at a time. SO no matter how much you cool them they will still burn out one brush faster than the other. Having gone though 5 of these motors I can say it was the lower bearing that has fail in everyone of them too. By the way I have used a fan blowing on the motors, I noted no change.
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I wish someone would put a tachometer on one of these motors so I would know how fast it is. Still looking for a replacment motor and it would sure help to know. I would approach the problem from the other direction. What is your desired feedrate? Your material is known. Your thickness is known (in this case it's a surface area). Your cutting tool is known. A machinist could tell you what spindle speed is required for all of those variables. As far as feedrate goes, I run my machine at about 900 rounds per hour. If the stroke of the press is 3 inches, that means your feedrate is 3(2)(900) inches per hour. You multiply the stroke by 2 because you're going both up and down. That's 5400 inches per hour or 90 inches per minute. I have no idea if that 3 inch stroke figure is accurate, tho. Staring at my machine out of the corner of my eye, it looks close. When it reaches the top of it's stroke, there looks like about a half inch between the top of the case and the bottom of the die. And the case is about 1.75. |
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I think I found my next trimmer motor
http://www.emoteq.com/Products/Series.aspx?s=17 |
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They don't mention it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they expect you to order them in lots of a thousand. This kind of wording: "Custom design versions are available to exactly match customer needs." Tends to be used when they're planning on tooling up to sell by the container load. If I'm wrong, I'm buying the one on the shelf right behind the one you buy. I'm trying to get consistent trim lengths on my 300BLK as it is, and breaking decapping pins because the shell isn't always in the same place in station #1 is making me nuts. So I figure that making a custom lower mounting housing should be a fun diversion. |
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They don't mention it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they expect you to order them in lots of a thousand. This kind of wording: "Custom design versions are available to exactly match customer needs." Tends to be used when they're planning on tooling up to sell by the container load. If I'm wrong, I'm buying the one on the shelf right behind the one you buy.
I'm trying to get consistent trim lengths on my 300BLK as it is, and breaking decapping pins because the shell isn't always in the same place in station #1 is making me nuts. On what press is this ?? So I figure that making a custom lower mounting housing should be a fun diversion.
I will not be needing a custom motor. The off the shelf can be made to work. They have another motor thats rated for 20,000 hours of run time. That would be like trimming 18 million cases. Needless to say that would last a life time. I'll find out more on Monday.
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Quoted: I started a new topic, so I don't hijack this thread.Quoted: They don't mention it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they expect you to order them in lots of a thousand. This kind of wording: "Custom design versions are available to exactly match customer needs." Tends to be used when they're planning on tooling up to sell by the container load. If I'm wrong, I'm buying the one on the shelf right behind the one you buy. I'm trying to get consistent trim lengths on my 300BLK as it is, and breaking decapping pins because the shell isn't always in the same place in station #1 is making me nuts. On what press is this ?? So I figure that making a custom lower mounting housing should be a fun diversion. I will not be needing a custom motor. The off the shelf can be made to work. They have another motor thats rated for 20,000 hours of run time. That would be like trimming 18 million cases. Needless to say that would last a life time. I'll find out more on Monday."Trying to get the hang of my Dillon 650. :)" |
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They don't mention it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they expect you to order them in lots of a thousand. This kind of wording: "Custom design versions are available to exactly match customer needs." Tends to be used when they're planning on tooling up to sell by the container load. If I'm wrong, I'm buying the one on the shelf right behind the one you buy.
I'm trying to get consistent trim lengths on my 300BLK as it is, and breaking decapping pins because the shell isn't always in the same place in station #1 is making me nuts. So I figure that making a custom lower mounting housing should be a fun diversion.
What press are you using? Automated? If so, you may need to slightly "re-time" the machine with a different sized roller for whatever bolt operates the arm that advances your shell-plate. |
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They don't mention it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they expect you to order them in lots of a thousand. This kind of wording: "Custom design versions are available to exactly match customer needs." Tends to be used when they're planning on tooling up to sell by the container load. If I'm wrong, I'm buying the one on the shelf right behind the one you buy.
I'm trying to get consistent trim lengths on my 300BLK as it is, and breaking decapping pins because the shell isn't always in the same place in station #1 is making me nuts. So I figure that making a custom lower mounting housing should be a fun diversion.
The motors are about $200.00. For $400.00 you can get a brushless motor thats rated for 20,000 HRs of operation.. I'm going with the shelf motor and will be making an adapter plate so I can use the base off one of the burned up Dillon motors. Then a another adapter to use the cutting head off of the old motor too. Unless I can find another carbide cutting blade that would last longer too .
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Finally got it done with some help.
2 arm gear puller ($4 from oreilleys) got the bearing down to the bottom of the shaft. Brass drift and a hammer got the shaft through the rest of the way. Install was accomplished with a .45 acp case and hammer to get it started and a slightly reformed .308 case to get it the rest of the way. Repotted the bearing with devcon plastic steel putty. 24 hours of cure later and there's Zero play. Sounds as good as new. 
All thanks to Keith the mechanical wizard. |
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