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Posted: 10/2/2013 1:11:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Seems like you want to talk about it. Got proof?
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Posted: 10/2/2013 1:12:55 PM EDT
[#2]
what gear of yours is getting eatin up?
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Posted: 10/2/2013 1:35:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Just pissed I can't put my thermal on my new 17s. Or my lasers or nv scope.
All the forum just blame the optic and it is bs. In the night vision forum there is talk that measured recoil forces from a scar 17 are 2-3x a DI AR10 |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 1:49:55 PM EDT
[#4]
funny as i have heard the recoil is lighter.
i dont have one, so i cant compare. how does it seem to you? |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 1:58:38 PM EDT
[#5]
what i have just read...points to older optics from elcan & eotech. not the new ones.
the older eotechs had issues w/ batteries & recoil on other platforms. i had one die on my ar15...sent it back to eotech & got a new one. never found out why the old died. interested to hear other peeps experiences w/ their scars |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 1:59:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
funny as i have heard the recoil is lighter. i dont have one, so i cant compare. how does it seem to you? The rifles are lighter than most any other 308 AR out there, so felt recoil is a little stouter. I have heard similar claims about the SCARs eating optics but haven't seen any actual evidence, much like the stories of bolts breaking. There are plenty of NV optics that are not rated for any kind of 308 so be specific. I'm not sure about thermals. |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 2:32:08 PM EDT
[#7]
If it's just recoil then there are many rifles and handguns with much more recoil whose optics in are trouble we haven't heard about.
My Sako A7 308 at 2.7 kg (less than 6 pounds) is a lot lighter than a SCAR 17S (8 pounds empty) and it has no semi-auto mechanism or 20 round mag attached. No problems with my Zeiss scope yet. And it doesn't have a one piece mounting system like a lot of Scars will have. Maybe it's flex or twist in the receiver? Is there something in common with the type of mounts being used? Anyone's guess is good without some testing and more information. |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 2:38:14 PM EDT
[#8]
I have never seen this either I have a Vortex PST scope on mine and my friends who have SCARs have different optics (Aimpoints, Elcan, EOTech, swarovski scope, and few have run NV on the rifles) none have reported issues. I am still calling this BS as the SCARs have much less recoil then bolt rifles or the majority of rifles in the same calibers of its class (AK AR M14/M1a etc)
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Posted: 10/2/2013 2:43:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I have heard about this. Seems to be happening on the 17's. The forward momentum of the bolt after a round has been discharged wether on full auto or semi is the cause of the problem.
Given what I know about optics (red dot or telescopic) they were never designed to handle "forward recoil" or "bolt slap". This seems to be the problem. I heard from my buddy at my LGS (who knows his stuff) says the the Rangers who were initially issued the 17's where experiencing this problem. I don't know from personal experience.
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Posted: 10/2/2013 2:53:44 PM EDT
[#10]
My Thermal is ,308 rated and TNVC reccomendes not running it on a scar.
Air guns are hard on scopes ad they don't have much recoil. I think the scars problem is the bolt carriers weight. And muzzle breaks and Suppressors don't make a rifle kick less in regards to force put on optics. |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 3:07:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have heard about this. Seems to be happening on the 17's. The forward momentum of the bolt after a round has been discharged wether on full auto or semi is the cause of the problem. Given what I know about optics (red dot or telescopic) they were never designed to handle "forward recoil" or "bolt slap". This seems to be the problem. I heard from my buddy at my LGS (who knows his stuff) says the the Rangers who were initially issued the 17's where experiencing this problem. I don't know from personal experience. There's a training center next door whose SR-25s eat scopes like they're candy, and that forward recoil is likely the culprit. The baddest scope on the market won't live on a spring-piston air gun, for exactly that reason. |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 3:10:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I can't speak for thermal but I can tell you the SEALs at last years USASOC sniper comp at Bragg complained that their normal scopes couldn't keep zero and multiple CNVDs have taken a dump on them while shooting the MK20. Further digging uncovered the MK17/MK20 is notorious for having a high G load causing loss of zero or in some cases damaging the zeroing mechanism. The MK20 produces something like 3x the G load that a DI .308 does.... Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the info. I was planning on running a Nightforce 2.5-10 on this gun anyway but that kind of sucks that it will eat lasers and optics. Gsci makes a recoil absorbing mount for my thermal but that will raise it up higher off the rail. I already have a gg@g riser under it to give me qd capability. Tnvc says the wasp will handle .50bmg so it will handle a scar easily. |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 4:16:32 PM EDT
[#13]
There's no shortage of people who want to talk about this. Where the shortage is lies in people who have had this happen to them. The Kenyans looked like they were getting along just fine with eotechs.
ETA: That was pretty stupid of Trijicon to put their fancy new optic on a scar 17. They should have known better. 
http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-17s/38680-scar-h-makes-appearance-new-trijicon-scope.html |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 5:52:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's no shortage of people who want to talk about this. Where the shortage is lies in people who have had this happen to them. The Kenyans looked like they were getting along just fine with eotechs.
ETA: That was pretty stupid of Trijicon to put their fancy new optic on a scar 17. They should have known better.
http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-17s/38680-scar-h-makes-appearance-new-trijicon-scope.html Not to disparage Kenyans, but would they even know if their EOtechs weren't working? |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 6:12:13 PM EDT
[#15]
my Spector dr 1.5-6 seems to handle it
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Posted: 10/2/2013 11:19:34 PM EDT
[#16]
My Elcan 1-4X does too.
Granted, I don't have 10,000 rounds down the tube but I do shoot it regularly. |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 11:40:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Dude, if you can afford a Scar 17 AND a thermal sight, you can afford to not worry about it. Shoot it like you stole it and let the warranty cover it.
I have yet to see a Scar 17 destroy ANY scope it wasn't aimed at. I have used two ACOG's, an Aimpoint ML2, a Burris XTR-14, and a Primary Arms MD06 (cheap sort-of Aimpoint T-1 clone) on mine with no problems at all. I specifically used the T-1 clone on it for several hundred rounds as a test of just how sturdy the little $99 sight was, and it is still soldiering on like no tomorrow! Never owned an Eotech, but from what I understand, it's not the SCAR, but the batteries bouncing around like pistons longitudinally that breaks them in many .308's and heavy hitting guns. Hence the newer transverse battery style. Can't verify that, just what I've heard. Shoot your rifle,with your scope and enjoy it. If it breaks, get it fixed. Or sell the Scar, miss out on all the fun, and buy a foofoo gun. |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 11:48:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Few .mil guys on here have experienced -17's beating optics and electronics to death in real life overseas.
No one wants to listen. |
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Posted: 10/2/2013 11:49:59 PM EDT
[#19]
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17?
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Posted: 10/2/2013 11:55:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to disparage Kenyans, but would they even know if their EOtechs weren't working? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's no shortage of people who want to talk about this. Where the shortage is lies in people who have had this happen to them. The Kenyans looked like they were getting along just fine with eotechs. ETA: That was pretty stupid of Trijicon to put their fancy new optic on a scar 17. They should have known better. http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-17s/38680-scar-h-makes-appearance-new-trijicon-scope.html Not to disparage Kenyans, but would they even know if their EOtechs weren't working? |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 12:21:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? Not enough to beat up my ACOG yet. We will see what the future holds for those of us on the civilian side. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 12:45:02 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not enough to beat up my ACOG yet. We will see what the future holds for those of us on the civilian side. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? Not enough to beat up my ACOG yet. We will see what the future holds for those of us on the civilian side. The theory makes sense to me. It's why my MATEN has a low mass JP carrier in it. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 12:45:42 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? 1# 8.5oz without the spring. Comparison: An AK47 has a mass of 1# 2 oz without the spring. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 12:51:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1# 8.5oz without the spring. Comparison: An AK47 has a mass of 1# 2 oz without the spring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? 1# 8.5oz without the spring. Comparison: An AK47 has a mass of 1# 2 oz without the spring. Cool, thanks. I'll weigh my MATEN tomorrow. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 12:53:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The theory makes sense to me. It's why my MATEN has a low mass JP carrier in it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? Not enough to beat up my ACOG yet. We will see what the future holds for those of us on the civilian side. The theory makes sense to me. It's why my MATEN has a low mass JP carrier in it. The logic sounds good to me as a layman as well. I'll wait for some other folks to follow up with practical tests to see if there is a law of unintended consequences. There are better field tests than my occasional hog hunting. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 8:28:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude, if you can afford a Scar 17 AND a thermal sight, you can afford to not worry about it. Shoot it like you stole it and let the warranty cover it. I have yet to see a Scar 17 destroy ANY scope it wasn't aimed at. I have used two ACOG's, an Aimpoint ML2, a Burris XTR-14, and a Primary Arms MD06 (cheap sort-of Aimpoint T-1 clone) on mine with no problems at all. I specifically used the T-1 clone on it for several hundred rounds as a test of just how sturdy the little $99 sight was, and it is still soldiering on like no tomorrow! Never owned an Eotech, but from what I understand, it's not the SCAR, but the batteries bouncing around like pistons longitudinally that breaks them in many .308's and heavy hitting guns. Hence the newer transverse battery style. Can't verify that, just what I've heard. Shoot your rifle,with your scope and enjoy it. If it breaks, get it fixed. Or sell the Scar, miss out on all the fun, and buy a foofoo gun. Lol. If you destroy a $10K+ scope, it's just money right? It only has a 1 year warranty. There are reports of scars destroying optics rated for .50BMG I think the .mil is having more problems because their shooters aren't paying $1-2 per shot and are using their rifles a lot more than us "civilians". |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 11:12:06 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 10/3/2013 11:18:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Is this issue only on the 17's?
I've had multiple optics on my 16S SBR and all of them have survived hundreds of rounds with no signs of failure or damage. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 11:30:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistorySo, why are you trolling this issue so hard? That was an unusual optic, a Zeiss red dot. Who can even vouch for the optic itself? That forum is full of people with all sorts of unbroken optics. For what it's worth, I have used two different Zeiss 3-10 scopes on 17s with no problems whatsoever. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 12:43:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Just this morning, my SCAR told me:
"Me SCAR love to eat optics!" "Yumm, me eat a Zeiss red dot next" 
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Posted: 10/3/2013 1:17:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just this morning, my SCAR told me: "Me SCAR love to eat optics!" "Yumm, me eat a Zeiss red dot next" http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Smiley/thicon_lol.gif~originalhttp://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Smiley/thicon_lol.gif~originalhttp://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Smiley/thicon_lol.gif~original L.O.L. I think I'm gonna use that somewhere. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 2:29:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1# 8.5oz without the spring. Comparison: An AK47 has a mass of 1# 2 oz without the spring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? 1# 8.5oz without the spring. Comparison: An AK47 has a mass of 1# 2 oz without the spring. The JP system in my rifle (BCG and mass off the captured spring) weigh 1lb 1.6oz. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 2:43:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The JP system in my rifle (BCG and mass off the captured spring) weigh 1lb 1.6oz. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? 1# 8.5oz without the spring. Comparison: An AK47 has a mass of 1# 2 oz without the spring. The JP system in my rifle (BCG and mass off the captured spring) weigh 1lb 1.6oz. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 2:48:23 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 10/3/2013 2:50:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The real question is what is the difference in recoil impulse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? 1# 8.5oz without the spring. Comparison: An AK47 has a mass of 1# 2 oz without the spring. The JP system in my rifle (BCG and mass off the captured spring) weigh 1lb 1.6oz. Indeed. Man, I wish I had a high-speed camera and the instruments to really look at this. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 3:12:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Indeed. Man, I wish I had a high-speed camera and the instruments to really look at this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? 1# 8.5oz without the spring. Comparison: An AK47 has a mass of 1# 2 oz without the spring. The JP system in my rifle (BCG and mass off the captured spring) weigh 1lb 1.6oz. Indeed. Man, I wish I had a high-speed camera and the instruments to really look at this. No camera needed. Just an accelerometer and a way to capture the data. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 4:56:05 PM EDT
[#37]
OK, I'll pipe up on this topic.
I own two SCAR 17S rifles, one for me and one for my wife. Mine: I bought a NIB Burris XTR 4-16x and figured this to be a great longer range scope for the gun. I also have a Trijicon TriPower for mine when I want it for quick/short duty use. The Burris adjustment turrets started turning on their own while shooting it on the SCAR. Yes the scope was tight in the rings and yes the rings were tight on the rifle. While shooting it off a bench and from the shoulder you could watch the turrets turn as you fired each round. Sent the scope into Burris and I have it back now with a letter stating that maybe my mount was loose or I didn't tighten something up because it worked great for them. I like Burris, I have 8 of their upper end scopes but this one is going to be sold since it doesn't work well on my SCAR. The Trijicon, never have had any issues with it and it was purchased used. My wifes: I bought a new Zeiss Z-Point for her rifle. Seemed to work great on her AR-15 for 400-500 rounds. Sold the AR and mounted it on the SCAR. Less that 100 rounds and the internal front lens just shattered last weekend. It's on its way back to Zeiss for repair. Going to buy another TriPower to put on her rifle since she likes the way it comes up on my rifle and the fact that I just TRUST that optic. Not saying the SCAR 17 is the issue but I have to say I've been a little put off lately with optic issues. Also, I replaced the Burris on my rifle with a Kahles Helia L 1.5-6x and with ~ 60 rounds no issue yet. The Burris had less than that through it. |
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Posted: 10/3/2013 4:59:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, why are you trolling this issue so hard? That was an unusual optic, a Zeiss red dot. Who can even vouch for the optic itself? That forum is full of people with all sorts of unbroken optics. For what it's worth, I have used two different Zeiss 3-10 scopes on 17s with no problems whatsoever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, why are you trolling this issue so hard? That was an unusual optic, a Zeiss red dot. Who can even vouch for the optic itself? That forum is full of people with all sorts of unbroken optics. For what it's worth, I have used two different Zeiss 3-10 scopes on 17s with no problems whatsoever. That would be my topic over there and as for the Zeiss Z-Point.....it was designed for the German military and the abuses they put their guns through. Figured it ought to be good enough for anything I would use it for. I have another Z-Point on my select fire FAL and it works great, even in full auto. |
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Posted: 10/4/2013 1:39:31 AM EDT
[#39]
I had issues with my TA11 ACOG on a SCAR17 in less than 1k rounds. When I contacted Trijicon they asked me if I was using it on a SCAR17 specifically. Haven't had much time or spare ammo or inclination to put a lot of rounds through it since (issue happened in early 2012 I wanna say......Trijicon of course fixed it for free).
No issues with a TA31 ACOG or Aimpoint T1 on my SCAR16 in 3-4k rounds |
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Posted: 10/4/2013 5:43:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Nom. Nom.
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Posted: 10/4/2013 5:56:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Stop buying your optics at Wall Mart and they will be just fine. The Trijicon SRS does just fine on my SCAR 17. Spot on and stays that way.
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Posted: 10/4/2013 6:27:10 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stop buying your optics at Wall Mart and they will be just fine. The Trijicon SRS does just fine on my SCAR 17. Spot on and stays that way. |
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Posted: 10/4/2013 6:32:40 AM EDT
[#43]
My vortex pst 1-4 is holding strong with about 600 rounds...
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Posted: 10/4/2013 8:24:30 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stop buying your optics at Wall Mart and they will be just fine. The Trijicon SRS does just fine on my SCAR 17. Spot on and stays that way. Yea right. I don't recall seeing Zeiss, Swarovski, Kahles, Trijicon and Steiners at Wal Mart anytime recently. You must have all Schmidt&Bender and Elcans on your guns. Didn't notice the last three NFA items I bought this year at Wal Mart either. Yep I'm just a poor cheapskate. 
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Posted: 10/4/2013 8:45:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just pissed I can't put my thermal on my new 17s. Or my lasers or nv scope. All the forum just blame the optic and it is bs. In the night vision forum there is talk that measured recoil forces from a scar 17 are 2-3x a DI AR10 scar recoil is much less than an ar10 with a 16" barrel.most is the factory muzzle break |
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Posted: 10/4/2013 8:56:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
scar recoil is much less than an ar10 with a 16" barrel.most is the factory muzzle break Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just pissed I can't put my thermal on my new 17s. Or my lasers or nv scope. All the forum just blame the optic and it is bs. In the night vision forum there is talk that measured recoil forces from a scar 17 are 2-3x a DI AR10 scar recoil is much less than an ar10 with a 16" barrel.most is the factory muzzle break Perceived recoil is less. Look at the weights of reciprocating mass posted. The SCAR is itself lighter, as well. Muzzle brakes actually magnify the problem, they don't help. |
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Posted: 10/4/2013 9:29:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? A LOT! 
Next to an OBR and LMT MWS BCG 
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Posted: 10/4/2013 9:29:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
L.O.L. I think I'm gonna use that somewhere. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just this morning, my SCAR told me: "Me SCAR love to eat optics!" "Yumm, me eat a Zeiss red dot next" L.O.L. I think I'm gonna use that somewhere. You must say it in a voice like the original Grimlock from the Transformers cartoon - hahahaha |
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Posted: 10/4/2013 9:43:32 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A LOT! <a href="http://s156.photobucket.com/user/d90king/media/D88C802C-DDE7-4740-9414-EFF0B171A890-4479-00000399F65A681B_zpsbab50188.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/D88C802C-DDE7-4740-9414-EFF0B171A890-4479-00000399F65A681B_zpsbab50188.jpg</a> Next to an OBR and LMT MWS BCG <a href="http://s156.photobucket.com/user/d90king/media/B16CB792-73AE-47FB-9FD4-157338A57FE5-11578-00000761364B58BB.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/B16CB792-73AE-47FB-9FD4-157338A57FE5-11578-00000761364B58BB.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? A LOT! <a href="http://s156.photobucket.com/user/d90king/media/D88C802C-DDE7-4740-9414-EFF0B171A890-4479-00000399F65A681B_zpsbab50188.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/D88C802C-DDE7-4740-9414-EFF0B171A890-4479-00000399F65A681B_zpsbab50188.jpg</a> Next to an OBR and LMT MWS BCG <a href="http://s156.photobucket.com/user/d90king/media/B16CB792-73AE-47FB-9FD4-157338A57FE5-11578-00000761364B58BB.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/B16CB792-73AE-47FB-9FD4-157338A57FE5-11578-00000761364B58BB.jpg</a> Isn't there a piston or op-rod kinda thing in there, too? The weight I got for my rifle, I included the mass of the buffer, as well. Everything that moves back and forth. |
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Posted: 10/4/2013 10:11:51 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't there a piston or op-rod kinda thing in there, too? The weight I got for my rifle, I included the mass of the buffer, as well. Everything that moves back and forth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How much reciprocating mass is in a -17? A LOT! <a href="http://s156.photobucket.com/user/d90king/media/D88C802C-DDE7-4740-9414-EFF0B171A890-4479-00000399F65A681B_zpsbab50188.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/D88C802C-DDE7-4740-9414-EFF0B171A890-4479-00000399F65A681B_zpsbab50188.jpg</a> Next to an OBR and LMT MWS BCG <a href="http://s156.photobucket.com/user/d90king/media/B16CB792-73AE-47FB-9FD4-157338A57FE5-11578-00000761364B58BB.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/B16CB792-73AE-47FB-9FD4-157338A57FE5-11578-00000761364B58BB.jpg</a> Isn't there a piston or op-rod kinda thing in there, too? The weight I got for my rifle, I included the mass of the buffer, as well. Everything that moves back and forth. Yep. Gotta include that too. |
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