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Posted: 8/29/2013 8:46:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2013 9:46:22 PM EST by disco_jon75]
So Bushnell apparently went to some 3 gun matches to ask shooters what they wanted. Well, let me tell you... they've built a winner.

http://www.bushnell.com/all-products/rifle-scopes/ar-optics/1-4x-24mm-throw-down-pcl

From their website here are the technical specs...



Our Illuminated BTR reticle provides outstanding low light performance and accurate holdovers out to 500 yards. Make lightning quick power changes with the Throw Down PCL lever.

Illuminated BTR reticle
11 Illumination settings
Throw Down PCL lever
First focal plane
.1 Mil click adjustment
Fully multi-coated optics
30mm tube
--------------------

Finish:
Matte
Power / Obj Lens: 1-4x 24mm
Reticle: Illuminated BTR
Field of View (ft@100 yds. / m@100 m): 110/33@1x / 36/11@4x
Weight (oz. / g): 17.3 / 492
Length (in. / mm): 3.6 / 93
Eye Relief (in. / mm): 3.6 / 93
Exit Pupil (mm): 13@1x / 6.0@4x
Click Value in.@100 yds / mm@100m: 0.1 / 9.1
Adj Range in.@100yds / m@100m: +60 / 1.7
Mounting Length (in. / mm): 5.9 / 150
View Quote


The reticle


I had been following the progress on this scope and read a couple of pre-release reviews. Based on those reviews, I decided to order one from OpticsPlanet who currently lists them for $289 While home on leave, I decided to build a pair of 6.8SPC upper receivers for my buddy and I to hunt hogs with. I gave my buddy a Strikefire for his 6.8 but wanted a 1-4x for mine. Well, I read that someone had seen one at Wal-Mart. Thinking there was no way Wal-mart would get one before OpticsPlanet had them in stock, I called the local Wal-Mart.

"Yes Sir, we've got one of those AR 223 1-4 scopes here."

Well, $299 later I was the proud owner of a Throwdown PCL. Unfortunately the only mounts Wal-Mart had were a Millet 30mm cantilever. I bought it for $29, mounted it and was somewhat unimpressed with the mount. It took some effort to get it tight enough to hold on the rail without rattling, but that's the mount not the optic's fault. I'll be replacing it with a Larue mount when I return to the US.



Here it is mounted on the rifle with the Throwdown lever extended.



The scope came in the box with a single band rubber band scope cover. I don't recall seeing a lens cloth which would have been a nice addition. Packing was secure and unremarkable.

It mounted fine on the cheap Millet cantilever mount but the mount required some significant effort to get it to tighten on the rifle firmly. Once done, it seems fairly solid though.

Optics quality is excellent. I'd compare image quality to be roughly the same as my Meopta Meostar R-1 1-4x and superior to my Weaver Classic Extreme 1.5-4.5x24. I didn't have my Meostar side by side when I used it but am pretty comfortable comparing the two regardless. It's got great clarity and I didn't see any noticeable blur in the corners. I'm very happy with the eyebox on it.

Field of view: My Meostar lists its field of view as 111' at 100 yards on 1x and 25.8' on 4x. The Bushnell shows 110' at 100 yards on 1x and 36' at 100 yards on 4x. I didn't have my Meostar with me so was unable to compare visually. It was definitely a bigger FOV than my Weaver set to 4x.

Reticle: I loved the reticle. It shrunk and grew as I zoomed in and out. On 1x, I found the reticle appared to be closer to a red dot than a full reticle but did present a nice horseshoe similar to the way an EOTech provides a targeting circle. On 4x, the reticle really rocked. The BDC ticks were clearly visible and usable in most lighting conditions. I think you might have difficulty using the BDC in very low light but they showed up fine in daylight, when overcast, and at the start of dusk. EDIT: I'll have to recheck, but I think the Bushnell reticle pic has one inaccuracy... I don't remember the BDC ticks being illuminated but I could be wrong. I'll have my buddy check for me.

Turrets had a solid feel to them and very noticeable clicks. I'm not that skilled with .mils yet but was able to easily adjust them to site the rifle in at 25 yards with my 90gr XM68D Federal ammo. I wish I'd had a longer range to shoot on but was limited to what I had at the time as I was trying to prep the rifle for some hog hunting in heavy brush. If someone wants to "shoot the box", please feel free to do so with this to determine tracking. The scope reportedly has a resettable zero but I did not do so given them time I had available.

The zoom... That PCL lever rocks. It turns smoother and easier than either my Weaver or my Meopta. It can be flicked out and repositioned with a single finger, I found my thumb worked quite nicely. Smart idea by Bushnell that stays firmly down and doesn't flop when its in the down position.

Overall, Bushnell got it right with this scope. Excellent quality FFP glass with a kickass reticle. The price is outstanding. Edit: I left my OpticsPlanet order going. I'll definitely use a second one of these! Maybe even a third...
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Link Posted: 8/30/2013 12:13:57 AM EST
I've been eyeing this thing for a while. It's almost too good to be true for $300. If they can stand up to extended 5.56 abuse, I'm in for a few of em myself.

How low can you go with the illumination? For some odd reason scope makers try to make the damn reticles daytime visible, and totally forget about low light settings. Who even turns those on during the day? I'd like something that is usable at night or dusk at least. My Optisan Mamba on green mode was decent until the lens molded up.
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Link Posted: 8/30/2013 12:24:55 AM EST
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Originally Posted By corpseknight:
I've been eyeing this thing for a while. It's almost too good to be true for $300. If they can stand up to extended 5.56 abuse, I'm in for a few of em myself.

How low can you go with the illumination? For some odd reason scope makers try to make the damn reticles daytime visible, and totally forget about low light settings. Who even turns those on during the day? I'd like something that is usable at night or dusk at least. My Optisan Mamba on green mode was decent until the lens molded up.
View Quote


I'd say the scope is perfectly adequate for low light. I wish the scope used AA, AAA or CR123 batteries as you can only get so much power and life out of 3v CR2032s. It's visible during daylight but there are times when I wish it were as superbright as my Trijicon 2.5-10x56.
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Link Posted: 8/30/2013 4:14:07 AM EST
I played with one at cabelas last night.

Wish it was SFP. the reticle isn't bright enough to use as a 'dot' on 1x in daytime. I kept losing it near the light fixtures. Obviously even my swarovski's and former vortex 1-6x's dots would get washed out directly at the bulb. I'd say it's as bright as a Burris TAC30 or MTAC but on 1x it's too small. If it was SFP it wouldn't be an issue cuz of the center dot in the horseshoe reticle. I had a Bushnell 1-6.5x in SFP and that would wash out agaisnt light colored houses on full brightness on a sunny but overcast day.

The power or magnifier ring is stiff even with the lever.

And to me the deal breakers were that it seemed like the diopter changed between 1x and 4x and the exposed turrets are huge and unnecessary.

It felt pretty light and the glass is ok. But a SFP reticle and capped turrets would make this scope what it needs to be. BTR1 or BTR 2 there's no need for exposed turrets
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Link Posted: 8/30/2013 10:03:21 PM EST
Hmmm... I didn't even think about the shrinking reticle. The reason I like 1-4x so much is because @ 1X I can use the scope as a red dot of sorts. I don't want to have to search for the reticle every time I mount up. I need to check one of these out in person.

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Link Posted: 8/31/2013 1:02:28 AM EST
I bought the 3-9x40 for my Savage suppressor host. I mounted it using the feeler gauge method and the crosshairs look canted. I'm going to lock the gun in a vise and check the crosshairs for vertical alignment before I head to the range and check the tracking. If these crosshairs are canted I'm going to be very upset.

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Link Posted: 8/31/2013 10:35:25 AM EST
Just mounted mine. I usually only buy optics costing over $800 but I made an exception after reading Optics Planet's review. Glad I did. This has got to be the best 1-4 FFP w/ lit reticle for under $700.

Having a blast with it today!


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Link Posted: 8/31/2013 10:42:55 AM EST
Is that a $2k+ .22 build??
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Link Posted: 8/31/2013 10:48:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2013 10:48:56 AM EST by PFran42]
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Originally Posted By dukduk:
Is that a $2k+ .22 build??
View Quote
Train like you fight...
Fight like you train!

I figured with as much trigger time the .22 gets, it deserves to be built to the same level as my 5.56 rifles. It kind of sucked having a bunch of nice rifles but then shooting a $500 22LR 70% of the time.
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Link Posted: 8/31/2013 2:09:48 PM EST
Where is this new Bushnell built? Korea, Philipines, Japan, Germany? Should say somewhere on Scope, as this sounds like a great Scope.
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Link Posted: 8/31/2013 2:43:08 PM EST
Guy on here said his local WM priced match SWFA's price. My one WM would not price match, but the other one did.

I just picked up the Throw Down at my WM for $227.95 plus sales tax, now I just need to wait on my ADM mount to arrive.
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Link Posted: 8/31/2013 2:54:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dukduk:
I played with one at cabelas last night.

Wish it was SFP. the reticle isn't bright enough to use as a 'dot' on 1x in daytime. I kept losing it near the light fixtures. Obviously even my swarovski's and former vortex 1-6x's dots would get washed out directly at the bulb. I'd say it's as bright as a Burris TAC30 or MTAC but on 1x it's too small. If it was SFP it wouldn't be an issue cuz of the center dot in the horseshoe reticle. I had a Bushnell 1-6.5x in SFP and that would wash out agaisnt light colored houses on full brightness on a sunny but overcast day.

The power or magnifier ring is stiff even with the lever.

And to me the deal breakers were that it seemed like the diopter changed between 1x and 4x and the exposed turrets are huge and unnecessary.

It felt pretty light and the glass is ok. But a SFP reticle and capped turrets would make this scope what it needs to be. BTR1 or BTR 2 there's no need for exposed turrets
View Quote


Good stuff.

I am running the TAC30, and fairly competitive in 3gun with it. For the money - does this thing do ANYTHING that the TAC30 doesn't do?
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Link Posted: 8/31/2013 4:37:42 PM EST
Has anyone got theirs from SWFA yet? I pre-ordered one months ago and nothing....
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Link Posted: 8/31/2013 4:50:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Triumphman:
Where is this new Bushnell built? Korea, Philipines, Japan, Germany? Should say somewhere on Scope, as this sounds like a great Scope.
View Quote


korea...

im also interested in one of these for a budget build im doing
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Link Posted: 9/1/2013 5:02:00 PM EST
got mine from gandor mountain they matched swfa price 227.99 very nice scope local walmart has one but only matches price within 50 mile radius
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Link Posted: 9/1/2013 5:17:05 PM EST
I'm looking forward to getting mine from SWFA. I ordered it back
In June.
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Link Posted: 9/1/2013 6:41:34 PM EST
Thanks for the review. I'm currently debating this and the new Primary Arms 1-6.
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Link Posted: 9/2/2013 7:51:36 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Chitrod:
Thanks for the review. I'm currently debating this and the new Primary Arms 1-6.
View Quote


I was in the same position but I thought the ACSS on the PA fixed 6x scope was too thin and easy to lose. I went with this scope and I think it's gonna be a good choice
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Link Posted: 9/2/2013 8:53:50 AM EST
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:


Good stuff.

I am running the TAC30, and fairly competitive in 3gun with it. For the money - does this thing do ANYTHING that the TAC30 doesn't do?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By dukduk:
I played with one at cabelas last night.

Wish it was SFP. the reticle isn't bright enough to use as a 'dot' on 1x in daytime. I kept losing it near the light fixtures. Obviously even my swarovski's and former vortex 1-6x's dots would get washed out directly at the bulb. I'd say it's as bright as a Burris TAC30 or MTAC but on 1x it's too small. If it was SFP it wouldn't be an issue cuz of the center dot in the horseshoe reticle. I had a Bushnell 1-6.5x in SFP and that would wash out agaisnt light colored houses on full brightness on a sunny but overcast day.

The power or magnifier ring is stiff even with the lever.

And to me the deal breakers were that it seemed like the diopter changed between 1x and 4x and the exposed turrets are huge and unnecessary.

It felt pretty light and the glass is ok. But a SFP reticle and capped turrets would make this scope what it needs to be. BTR1 or BTR 2 there's no need for exposed turrets


Good stuff.

I am running the TAC30, and fairly competitive in 3gun with it. For the money - does this thing do ANYTHING that the TAC30 doesn't do?


The model with the ranging reticle ranges. And it has a throw lever out of the box. FFP and exposed turrets if that's your thing.

But for three gunning and most applications that a 4x is usefull for... I don't think it does.

FYI I'm not a hater, I actually like some if the stuff they have out. This just missed the mark, like the Vortex 1-6x reticle, should be rangable. Everything else is great but that. Same with that Leupold Mk6, should've been 2FP or at least have the option.
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Link Posted: 9/2/2013 12:22:56 PM EST
Yeah that's one of my fears. I wish I could see one first hand.
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Link Posted: 9/3/2013 6:34:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By cormorantslayer:
I bought the 3-9x40 for my Savage suppressor host. I mounted it using the feeler gauge method and the crosshairs look canted. I'm going to lock the gun in a vise and check the crosshairs for vertical alignment before I head to the range and check the tracking. If these crosshairs are canted I'm going to be very upset.

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s343/cormorantslayer/Firearms/DSC_0025_zps36a5f216.jpg
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Did you consider a bubble level?
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Link Posted: 9/3/2013 8:46:12 PM EST
Well, I'm back deployed, no longer on my R&R now... My buddy, a Marine fresh back from Afghanistan, managed to whack 4 hogs with it in under 15 seconds yesterday. Not bad shooting. He did miss twice. 6.8SPC w/ XM68GD ammo. The reticle works good for CQB. All shots 30 yards or less. When I get home, I plan to really wring out the BDC to get data on drop rates with the XM68GD ammo I'm shooting.



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Link Posted: 9/4/2013 12:47:00 PM EST
I called bushnell they couldn't give me a timeframe that was a month ago.
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Link Posted: 9/4/2013 3:19:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stephenmcrna:
I called bushnell they couldn't give me a timeframe that was a month ago.
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I just got an email from SWFA with a similar theme.
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Link Posted: 9/4/2013 4:14:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By plouffedaddy:


I just got an email from SWFA with a similar theme.
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Originally Posted By plouffedaddy:
Originally Posted By stephenmcrna:
I called bushnell they couldn't give me a timeframe that was a month ago.


I just got an email from SWFA with a similar theme.


Well, they are out and available at Wal-Mart. OpticsPlanet says they'll have them in stock this week or next. "Next 7-17 days" is what I received a week ago via email.
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Link Posted: 9/4/2013 4:39:37 PM EST
How close is the 1x to 1x?

As suitable for both eyes open shooting as a red dot sight?


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Link Posted: 9/4/2013 5:00:27 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DrMark:
How close is the 1x to 1x?

As suitable for both eyes open shooting as a red dot sight?


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The glass ya but no way it's gonna be "red dot" bright outside.
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Link Posted: 9/4/2013 6:17:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dukduk:


The glass ya but no way it's gonna be "red dot" bright outside.
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Originally Posted By dukduk:
Originally Posted By DrMark:
How close is the 1x to 1x?

As suitable for both eyes open shooting as a red dot sight?




The glass ya but no way it's gonna be "red dot" bright outside.

The brightness control would have to go up to around 17 (it currently stops at 10) in order to be able to use it as a red dot outside in the daylight.
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Link Posted: 9/4/2013 7:12:25 PM EST
Thanks guys.


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Link Posted: 9/5/2013 8:44:14 AM EST
just go to Amazon if you want one now..i got tired of waiting for swfa,optics planet and all the rest..ordered mine last week..delivered today
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Link Posted: 9/5/2013 10:13:51 AM EST
I've looked around and may have over looked it but what kind of battery does this take?
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Link Posted: 9/5/2013 10:39:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By GlockMan21:
I've looked around and may have over looked it but what kind of battery does this take?
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Link Posted: 9/7/2013 7:41:01 AM EST
I had one. Loved it. The PCL lever was AWESOME and magnification changes were lightning quick. However, I found the illumination to be sub par even at its brightest. During the day, and since the scope is FFP, you are left with a tiny black or very pale red dot that is nearly impossible to pick up with both eyes open. In my mind, the point of a 1-4 is to have a red dot-like CQ sight with medium range capability. This scope does not work well as a CQ, both eyes open type of scope.
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Link Posted: 9/7/2013 8:53:37 AM EST
ok..got mine mounted on my S&W 22lr....as far as i'm concerned thats where it belongs..Meaning no disrespect to the OP,but, his assertion that the optical quality is on par with Meopta is..as far as i'm concerned...way off..I have a Meopta 1-4x ZD on my go to AR and the optics are far,far superior as i would expect them to be. This tho, is a nice scope, pretty good glass,NOT daytime bright illum.,but a good scope for a 22lr...
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Link Posted: 10/13/2013 6:31:09 PM EST
Zombified!

Just returned from the range with mine. Out of the box, it was within 1 mil left and 1 mil high at 25 yards. 3 rounds later, and sighted in. Then extended my range to the 100 yard target. A couple of adjustments to elevation, and was hitting bullseye. Then on to the 12" x 12" steel gong at 200. Had 15/15 hits, all within a 5" circle. Wanted to hit out to 500 yards, but the wind kicked in something fierce, and decided to call it a day.

All in all, I'm pretty satisfied. At 12 yards, the 1x reticle was not daylight visible, but was easy enough to pick up that it didn't matter. Glass clarity seems pretty clear --- I'd say on par with the PST 1-4 I previously owned; however, the PST was definitely a bit brighter. Adjusting from 1-4 then 4-1 with the PCL lever is pretty smooth, there's almost no resistance. Turret clicks are firm, tactile. I don't like that they aren't covered, but I did reset my zero indication so if they do get bumped, it's not that big of a deal.

Is it a Trijicon or NF? No, the glass is much clearer and brighter in those, but then, so's the price. However for a ~$300 scope, and for my uses (3 gun, plinking, target shooting, yotes, and deer under 100 yards), it works well. Overall, I would recommend to friends.
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Link Posted: 10/14/2013 9:49:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2013 9:50:31 AM EST by jray02r1]
I just got home from returning mine. I really wanted to like this scope, but it just couldn't do what I needed it to. The build seemed solid, the throw down lever was awesome, the horse shoe reticle with drop pattern was nicely designed, the price was great(I only paid $189), the glass seemed pretty nice. My only gripe about the entire scope was the illumination. It was simply too dull as stated by others. When zoomed into 3 or 4, the illumination during a cloudy day here was sub-par at best. On 1x zoom level, the scope is pretty much useless. You simply cannot even tell that it is lit up at all. The dot is too small to pick up easily without the illumination, and because you cannot tell the thing is on, it makes the scope pretty much useless in anything but the magnified settings. If I had the scope on 1x, and a deer or coyote started running through the woods, I couldnt even take a shot as the "red dot" is very hard to locate on the move. This is a huge concern for a 1x4 scope. Too bad really, it could have been a great scope.

ETA: I have pretty good eyesight too. Fyi
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Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:26:13 AM EST
Seems it's safe to say being FFP makes this one a bust.
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Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:06:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
Seems it's safe to say being FFP makes this one a bust.
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I actually think that if the scope had a better illumination system, being FFP would be ideal for a 1x4 scope. That way it could act as a red dot when not using the zoom capabilities. Either way, im not going to recommend this scope for its intended use unfortunately.
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Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:12:34 PM EST
Four piggies, five shots, under 15 seconds... I made the mistake of letting a Marine borrow my 6.8 with the optic on it. He used it quite effectively.

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Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:29:49 PM EST
they need to put the aiming dot and horse shoe in the second focal plane and the BDC in the first. That way you get both, a big eye friendly close range reticle at 1x and BDC when you need it.
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Link Posted: 10/15/2013 3:35:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2013 3:39:21 AM EST by erwos]
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Originally Posted By waterglass:
they need to put the aiming dot and horse shoe in the second focal plane and the BDC in the first. That way you get both, a big eye friendly close range reticle at 1x and BDC when you need it.
View Quote

That is an extremely clever idea, if it's possible. It'd also give you much better illumination on the horseshoe and dot (albeit at the cost of probably no illumination on the BDC ladder/circles). Anyone know if it's doable?

I still think that this is an excellent scope given the price point, but it's clear that the small dot at 1x is a love/hate proposition.

I'm also still curious as to what other $250 scope has such mind-blowing illumination that people are complaining about what this one can do.
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Link Posted: 10/15/2013 4:28:11 AM EST
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Originally Posted By erwos:

That is an extremely clever idea, if it's possible. It'd also give you much better illumination on the horseshoe and dot (albeit at the cost of probably no illumination on the BDC ladder/circles). Anyone know if it's doable?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By erwos:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
they need to put the aiming dot and horse shoe in the second focal plane and the BDC in the first. That way you get both, a big eye friendly close range reticle at 1x and BDC when you need it.

That is an extremely clever idea, if it's possible. It'd also give you much better illumination on the horseshoe and dot (albeit at the cost of probably no illumination on the BDC ladder/circles). Anyone know if it's doable?

Zeiss has a 1.5-6x42 scope that works this way. FFP reticle and SFP dot. Very nice setup.
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Link Posted: 10/16/2013 3:24:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2013 3:25:40 PM EST by DelTonGuy]
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Zeiss has a 1.5-6x42 scope that works this way. FFP reticle and SFP dot. Very nice setup.
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^ Is also $2400, the cost of 2 new, upgraded MOE edition Colt 6920 LE models.....that's outrageous.
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Link Posted: 10/18/2013 1:55:36 PM EST
Does anybody know what the reticle drop subtensions are? Are they Mil-rad? MOA?
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Link Posted: 10/19/2013 9:11:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2013 9:30:53 AM EST by waterglass]
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Originally Posted By mousegunner:

Zeiss has a 1.5-6x42 scope that works this way. FFP reticle and SFP dot. Very nice setup.
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Originally Posted By mousegunner:
Originally Posted By erwos:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
they need to put the aiming dot and horse shoe in the second focal plane and the BDC in the first. That way you get both, a big eye friendly close range reticle at 1x and BDC when you need it.

That is an extremely clever idea, if it's possible. It'd also give you much better illumination on the horseshoe and dot (albeit at the cost of probably no illumination on the BDC ladder/circles). Anyone know if it's doable?

Zeiss has a 1.5-6x42 scope that works this way. FFP reticle and SFP dot. Very nice setup.


IOR Valdada has bi-focal plane reticles in their 1-10x26 scopes. They are about $2600. I dont know if it can be done cheap, but if it could I'd imagine it would solve the problem of lighting the reticle and horse shoe.
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