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Hornady's 110 grain Custom BTHP/WC load is the same load, just packaged in a different box.  |
All hail Jeanne Assam!
That is on "The List." |
All hail Jeanne Assam!
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Hmmm... and another question: How well does 75gr TAP do through barriers? After reading Doctor Roberts' article "Time for a Change," (located here), and seeing how poorly the 77gr SMK performs after intermediate barriers such as glass or loaded AK mags, I'm wondering how well that 75gr TAP does in those same situations. Any info? ETA: A supplemental question to the first.... If it were deemed to have inadequate performance through barriers then I would imagine it would be prudent to keep some magazines loaded with 75gr TAP and a few loaded with a dedicated barrier round (for example a loading that uses the Barnes bullets, the Federal bonded bullets, or the TAP barrier round). Which of these rounds has the closest POI to the 75gr TAP? The intent behind this question is to determine which barrier round could be used without the need for re-zeroing if one needed to change ammunition types quickly. |
The 75gr is a match bullet like the 77gr SMK. A thin jacket HPBT like the hornady T2 would have the same performance through barriers |
Your questions cant be answered. For example my first barrel had a 1 MOA vertical change between 75 grain 5.56 TAP and Federal 62 grain Tactical (the best barrier round). When I replaced the barrel it was a 4 MOA horizontal dispersion from my 75 grain TAP zero. These barrels were on the same rifle and the same length. For this barrel there is NO ammo that can be more off at 100 yards witht eh 62 grain TBBC load where previously it was very close. So the answer is go shoot some in YOUR rifle and see becasue noone can tell you anything and ballistic charts are 100% meaningless at 200m and under distances when comparing the shift between 2 loads. |
Yeay... 6.8 TAP... its available to civilians. Also any load using that bullet will be pretty much the same too. Id select the 110 VMAX over the BTHP though as it has better terminal ballistics. |
Thanks! I'd really appreciate it! |
Bloodninja: You gotta do better than that!
Bloodninja: Your picture was really bad.
sweet17: HARRRRRRRRRRRR
Bloodninja: Your picture was really bad.
sweet17: HARRRRRRRRRRRR
I thought TAP was available to LE only..? |
UPDATE I just pulled some bullets from one of the more recent lots of 5.56 TAP that I have on hand and there is indeed a small amount of sealant in the cannelure of the bullet! Pic to follow. |
All hail Jeanne Assam!
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Molon, Quick question, and I have probably missed this information somewhere. Do the 75gr Hornady OTMs fragment even without the cannelure? If yes, what is the velocity threshold? I ask because I am planning on loading up some 75 OTMs to put away for a rainy day. Thanks. |
Come on, I live in Oregon, it's not like it rains here very often, right?  |
TAP FPD is ridiculously overpriced for what it is. Its much cheaper to get black hills red box 75gr. Seriously that black nickel coating is so gimmicky it makes me sick. |
Maybe. I can run to Cabelas down the road and get red box for $38 per 50, a cost of 76 cents per round. I payed $16.31 for a box of 20 her for a cost per round of 81.5 cents. Give or take, the difference isn't that ridiculous. YMMV. |
This post edited for typos and grammatical errors.
Thinking twice and posting once. Ya, right.........<img src=/images/smilies/anim_rolleyes.gif border=0 align=middle>
Some guy named Darwin used to be in charge of QA, but he got fired.
Thinking twice and posting once. Ya, right.........<img src=/images/smilies/anim_rolleyes.gif border=0 align=middle>
Some guy named Darwin used to be in charge of QA, but he got fired.
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I shot this 250 pound hog with Hornady 5.56mm TAP T2 75 grain BTJHP last weekend. Shot was behind the shoulder at 100 yards, broke one rib on entry and one rib on exit. Entry hole the size of a pencil eraser, exit the size of a quarter. Both lungs totally and completely destroyed, heart was not touched. Hog dropped in his tracks. No meat destroyed at all. http://www.phossil.com/thom/Hog%20Tied.jpg http://www.phossil.com/thom/Hog%20Ready%20For%20Freezer.jpg |
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You can see the exit hole in the lower photograph in the rib cage behind and under the shoulder, virtually zero meat damage and 100% lung soup.... When I cut the thoracic diaphragm, about 5 gallons of blood ejected out all over me....him, |
Notorious thread killer and green ammo can whore!
Joined:
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EE: 100% (16)
TN, USA
so, for a 6.8 SPC user, for defense and best terminal results on available commercial loads, the Hornady BTHP 110 grain is in the top 2 or 3?  along with SSA 115 grain HP  and thanks a lot for all the direction with the 5.56 stuff... I've recently stocked up on the TAP FPD to go with my Colt. I keep 3 mags with FPD and then keep the rest stocked with LC 193 for range or varmint. Thinking of building a 6.8 and ammo has been a big question for me. |
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For commercial ammo I like Silver States 90 grainer. www.ssarmory.com/6.8_spc_ammo-2-1-1-1.aspx Hunting would be the 110 Grain Accubond or Pro Hunter, and my multi-purpose Survival round would probably be their new Barnes 85 grainer in a Combat load...3000fps.  www.ssarmory.com/6.8_spc_ammo-2-1-1-2-1.aspx |
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
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Got another nice sow this morning with the SIG 556 using Hornady 5.56 TAP T2 75 grain, hit her in the shoulder and she dropped instantly due to massive bullet fragmentation hitting the shoulder..... http://www.phossil.com/thom/Hog%20Hole.jpg |
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That was the first time I actually hit the shoulder blade, was actually trying to hit a couple of inches rearward of that shot. This is the first Hornady 5.56 NATO TAP T2 75 grain BTJHP that DID NOT exit the other side as it is the first one of about 10-12 now where I hit bone on the way in.
It did produce massive destruction on the inside of the shoulder and totally wiped out the lungs, the 300 pound hog dropped dead in its tracks and was not breathing by the time I walked up to it. Very nice entry hole and the other side rib cage did not have anything exit it this time around. |
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Got another nice 200 pound boar this weekend with the Hornday 5.56mm NATO TAP T2 75 grain BTJHP in my SIG 556 with 1:7 twist 16 inch barrel.
Was a standing shot from 125 yards, bullet entered the rib cage right behind the shoulder and reflected upwards bisecting the spinal column cutting it in half and exiting out the other side of the top of the rib cage. Hog dropped in its tracks like he had the rug pulled out from under him. Here is a pic of him: http://www.phossil.com/thom/SIG%20HOG3/Sig%20Hog%20%2312.jpg And here is a pic of the exit wound out the other side: http://www.phossil.com/thom/SIG%20HOG3/SIG%20Hog%20%2312%20Exit.jpg |
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Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Leatherneck556:
Molon, I have question: You say that factory-loaded 5.56 TAP is advertised as being sealed both around the primer and case neck, but that none of the ammo that you have received has been sealed around the neck. How much does this matter? Ie: have you done any testing where you have immersed 5.56 TAP in water to see how long it holds up? UPDATE I just pulled some bullets from one of the more recent lots of 5.56 TAP that I have on hand and there is indeed a small amount of sealant in the cannelure of the bullet! Pic to follow. RE: your post |
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Originally Posted By BushMeister:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Leatherneck556:
Molon, I have question: You say that factory-loaded 5.56 TAP is advertised as being sealed both around the primer and case neck, but that none of the ammo that you have received has been sealed around the neck. How much does this matter? Ie: have you done any testing where you have immersed 5.56 TAP in water to see how long it holds up? UPDATE I just pulled some bullets from one of the more recent lots of 5.56 TAP that I have on hand and there is indeed a small amount of sealant in the cannelure of the bullet! Pic to follow. RE: your post 
See my next post! |
All hail Jeanne Assam!
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Hornady 5.56 TAP; Then and Now
In the 2½ years since I first reported on Hornady’s 75 grain 5.56 TAP ammunition, there have been a few minor changes made to the load; some cosmetic and some functional. The ammunition still comes packaged in the same red TAP box with the “5.56 X 45” label that it always has and the ammunition still offers the same outstanding performance that it has from its inception. While the original 5.56 TAP was loaded in “Frontier” head-stamped cases, the load now comes in "Hornady" head-stamped brass. 
Also, the cases currently used are no longer polished to a mirror-like finish; they retain the discoloration at the shoulder and neck from the annealing process as is typical of M193 or M855. This has no effect on function. 
The original lots of 5.56 TAP did not have sealed primers. When Hornady did started sealing the primers, it was reported that this sealant was a new “anaerobic” type. It had a distinctly “rubbery” feel to it as compared to traditional lacquer type sealants. 
The primer sealant used in the most recent lot of 5.56 TAP that I have on hand appears to have a different consistency than the original sealant used, but I haven’t seen any data confirming this. 
Contrary to internet myths and even Hornady promotional material, for years after its introduction, 5.56 TAP did not have sealed case mouths. Sealant at the case mouth on 5.56 TAP has been a relatively recent development. I first noticed it with lot #3071004 and oddly, I've noticed some lots after that one that didn't have the case mouth sealant; go figure. 
Current 5.56 TAP is still loaded with a proprietary “flattened” ball powder. (The red squares in the pic below measure one-tenth of an inch.) 
Velocities of the various 5.56 TAP lots have remained remarkably consistent over the last 2½ years. I still had a few boxes of each lot of 5.56 TAP that I had tested over the last 2½ years, so I decided to fire 10 rounds from each lot over a chronograph in back-to-back fashion. Seven different lots were tested using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. The rounds were fired from a 20” Colt M16A2 government profile barrel with chrome lining, a NATO chamber and a 1:7” twist. All velocities listed below are muzzle velocities, as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer. None of the lots tested had an average muzzle velocity that varied more than 0.61% from the grand average muzzle velocity of 2808 fps and most of the lots varied significantly less than that. 
Atmospheric conditions Temperature: 74 degree F Relative humidity: 57.7% Barometric pressure: 30.15 inches Hg Elevation: 940 feet above sea level 
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All hail Jeanne Assam!
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I couldn't see the sealer around the caps either. This was on the samples I have from 3 different lots. Then I pulled out a jeweler's loupe to take a closer look. The red sealer was just barely visible even with the magnification.
I believe the neck sealer can only be seen by pulling the bullet. |
The best of us didn't make it.
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Originally Posted By jvmcd:
Molon, do you have any newer lots you have evaluated?. I recently purchased some that is lot #308583 and it is using Winchester brass instead of Hornady. Not sure about the primer sealent, I really don't see any around the primer. The newest lot that I have on hand has the "Hornady" headstamp. I haven't personally seen any of the lots with the Winchester brass yet. Black Hills has also been known to substitute Winchester brass for their match brass loads; but one had no problem seeing the primer sealant on those. 
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All hail Jeanne Assam!
(consolidating pics of gel shots previously posted in this thread for the upcoming .pdf revision)
NATO pressure Sierra 77 grain OTM from a 16" barrel 
courtesy of Dr. G.K. Roberts NATO pressure Nosler 77 grain OTM from a 20" barrel 
courtesy of Dr. G.K. Roberts SAAMI pressure Hornady 75 grain OTM from a 16" barrel 
courtesy of Dr. G.K. Roberts 
6.8mm SPC gel shots 110 TAP 
courtesy of Dr. G.K. Roberts 
courtesy of Dr. G.K. Roberts 
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All hail Jeanne Assam!
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Recently received 5.56 TAP (from ATG) is different from the earlier versions in several respects:
––-Brass says "WCC 07", and bears the NATO cross (formerly "Hornady 5.56 NATO") ––-Bullet has a far larger opening at the hollow point (looks to be about twice as large as earlier rounds) ––-Bullets are more deeply seated in the brass (often, about half as much of the cannelure is visible, compared to the earlier rounds) ––-There is a pale reddish cast to most of the case bottoms, apparently from sealant on the primers. It's not a bright ring right around the primer, as often seen on mil surplus rounds, just a pale "wash". ––-The part of the white Hornady label on the box on which the lot #s were printed has been cut out with a razor (probably to prevent tracing the rounds back to the LEO purchaser) Brass still shows annealing, though, and the bullet shape seems to be the same. Molon, if you have any of this version of the ammo, maybe you could pull a bullet to see how these rounds compare to earlier versions (powder type and weight, bullet weight, etc.). I seem to remember a pic you posted that indicated a pretty good store in your Stack-Ons, so maybe you don't have "newer" lots. I could send you a few rounds, if you'd like to examine them. Here is a pic of the brass, along with one earlier Hornady brass round: 
Here's a pic of the box with the lot # cut out  , and the far larger bullet opening at the hollow point (earlier "Hornady" brass round on top, more recent "WCC 07" round on the bottom):
***ETA: SkyPup is the "HogRadicator". He is lethal to all forms of hog life. |
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Originally Posted By BushMeister:
Recently received 5.56 TAP (from ATG) is different from the earlier versions in several respects: ––-Brass says "WCC 07", and bears the NATO cross (formerly "Hornady 5.56 NATO") ––-Bullet has a far larger opening at the hollow point (looks to be about twice as large as earlier rounds) ––-Bullets are more deeply seated in the brass (often, about half as much of the cannelure is visible, compared to the earlier rounds) ––-There is a pale reddish cast to most of the case bottoms, apparently from sealant on the primers. It's not a bright ring right around the primer, as often seen on mil surplus rounds, just a pale "wash". ––-The part of the white Hornady label on the box on which the lot #s were printed has been cut out with a razor (probably to prevent tracing the rounds back to the LEO purchaser) Brass still shows annealing, though, and the bullet shape seems to be the same. Molon, if you have any of this version of the ammo, maybe you could pull a bullet to see how these rounds compare to earlier versions (powder type and weight, bullet weight, etc.). I seem to remember a pic you posted that indicated a pretty good store in your Stack-Ons, so maybe you don't have "newer" lots. I could send you a few rounds, if you'd like to examine them. Here is a pic of the brass, long with one earlier Hornady brass round: http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/emstc/DSC00004-1.jpg Here's a pic of the box with the lot # cut out , and the far larger bullet opening at the hollow point (earlier "Hornady" brass round on top, more recent "WCC 07" round on the bottom):
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/emstc/DSC00011-2.jpg ***ETA: SkyPup is the "HogRadicator". He is lethal to all forms of hog life. Good info. Thanks for posting. If I don't turn up any of the WCC lots locally, I just might take you up on your offer. |
All hail Jeanne Assam!
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