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.45 ACP Conversion Guide (Page 1 of 19)
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Posted: 10/8/2007 7:32:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2010 7:36:07 AM EST by TANGOCHASER]
Interest in .45 ACP conversions has grown by leaps and bounds in the last year due to a number of new options available to builders. Here is a base of information as I know it. Please feel free to correct any bad info and add any info not mentioned.


Olympic Arms is the only manufacturer of a factory built .45 ACP conversion. Their upper receiver is designed to use a standard AR15 lower receiver with modified Uzi .45 ACP magazines. Oly ran out of Uzi mags and there is no current .45 ACP mag that will work with a standard AR15 lower. Oly is planning on releasing a new .45 mag that does fit in a standard AR lower receiver in December 2007.

The Oly .45 upper receiver is a blowback design with the weight of the bolt carrier holding the round in battery when fired. The ejector system in a spring set up mounted in the upper receiver. Any AR15 upper receiver can be used but 3 small holes for the ejector need to be drilled and the ejector installed.



This is the Oly ejector set up installed in a regular AR15 upper receiver.



Here is the print for the holes for the Oly ejector installation. The .125 hole is drilled on the opposite side as well.



The AR45 lower receiver is a three way enterprise between Tango Chaser Tactical, CNCGuns, and Khalan Weaponry. It is a billet lower receiver designed to use unmodified grease gun magazines. The magazine release is in the standard AR15 location and uses standard AR15 lower parts except for the magazine catch assembly. Around 100 have been made and sold to date. Future plans call for a forged lower to reduce cost and a complete AR45 carbine will be available spring 2009.





Bazooka Bros .45 lower receiver is designed to use grease gun magazines and use an Oly .45 upper. The lower receiver is a two piece receiver mating a grease gun magwell to the back half of a standard AR15 lower receiver. Early versions required a new magazine catch slot to be cut into the magazines. The BAZ45 has been on the market for some time and is reported to be very reliable.







Cavalry Arms makes their MKII polymer lower receiver that is widened in the middle of the magwell to accommodate the use of a grease gun mag to work with the Olympic Arms upper. A Hahn magwell filler block is required to hold the grease gun mag in the magwell and uses a lever type mag release. The Cav Arms lower also requires a very heavy buffer like the Slash buffer to prevent damage to the lower receiver from firing the .45 ACP round. The primary drawback to the Cav Arms lower is it's one-piece design. Users can not change the buttstock or the pistol grip.



This shows the Hahn magwell block installed.



LaFrance made a AR15 type carbine that used Thompson SMG magazines. It has been reported that LaFrance sold only to law enforcement and military is no longer in business.



MGI is reported to have a removeable magwell that uses grease gun mags for their CQB weapon system but no release date has been given.



Grease gun mags vs Thompson mags. Grease gun mags are the easiest to use for .45 ACP conversions as no other mods are needed to the Oly upper receivers. Thompson mags require the clearance cuts to the bottom of the bolt carrier and inside the bottom of the upper receiver to clear the magazine. Mag catch slots also need to be cut into the magazines to work with any of the lower receiver systems on the market.

Some arfcomers have machined a standard AR45 lower to accept the Thompson mags with a magwell block but the additional modifications to the upper receiver were still needed.

Grease gun mags are too wide to fit into a standard AR15 lower without extensive modifications to the magazines. Dalphon used to sell such modified mags but is no longer in business.

www.cncguns.com/
khalan.com/
www.olyarms.com/
I don't have a website for Bazooka Bros.


Moderators, please tack this thread as these questions get asked about 2-3 times a week. The .45 conversion will become much more popular as shooter attain knowlwdge as to how to build a .45 set up.
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Link Posted: 10/8/2007 8:19:33 PM EST
Here are two more spin offs. First is a .45 GAP upper receiver I made last year using a Thompson SMG barrel. I had a local machinist take a few thousandths off the chamber end till the chamber was the correct depth for the .45 GAP round and the cut new threads to match an Oly barrel extension.

Fire from a Sten mag like a raped ape.





Here is a prototype of a lower that uses WWII Reising SMG magazines. Concept works and I am having a dedicated lower made from a forging for Reising mags. Only real issue is the cost of mags. About $60-$80 a piece. Factory mags are 20 rounds but a guy named Ken Christie made a limited run of 30rd stainless steel mags.



Here is a live fire video. Don't pay any attention to the buttstock falling off after the test fire. The threads in the lower were stripped and my repair failed.

youtube.com/watch?v=-U7Q8cqC_q8
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Link Posted: 10/8/2007 8:24:13 PM EST
Outstanding! I am looking into gettng a .45ACP m4 type carbine. This post helps alot
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Link Posted: 10/8/2007 8:34:22 PM EST
Thanks for resurrecting this, TANGOCHASER.

Magazines - what to use and how to make them usable - seem to have always been the problem with these, and other pistol caliber, conversions for the AR.

As noted, the alternatives include primarily Grease Gun magazines and also Uzi mags. Oly may have a polymer magazine out sometime in the next year, and Thompson mags have been worked with by some. While typing this I see that TANGO has worked with a Sten mag and a Reising mag also. One aspect of using GG mags or Uzis that may not immediately come to mind is that they are (really) long compared to regular AR mags: Here are a standard USGI 30 round 5.56 mag next to a 16 round Uzi mag (with an Oly mag block welded on) and a 30 round Grease Gun mag:


The Uzi mag option would seem to be the easiest route to pursue, as it requires only a standard lower, but it's not. Besides being limited to 16 rounds (if your thumbs are up to the loading), Uzi mags are just plain hard to come by and rather pricey. It took about two months of haunting Gunbroker to scare up six 16 round Uzi mags earlier this year and during that time I saw them go for up to $305(!). Then I sent a batch off to Oly in May to be modified (another $35/ea.) and got them back last week (October).

But don't let me discourage you. The .45 AR is a hoot to shoot, and you'll be rewarded if you carry on through a conversion. I think TANGOCHASER is correct in saying that this will likely become a more popular conversion as more people are exposed to it. And I think he's probably the granddaddy of this conversion.
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Link Posted: 10/8/2007 8:39:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 8:41:04 PM EST by TANGOCHASER]
.45 ACP Hollow points can be fired from Sten mags in a pinch. FMJ are too long without modifying the mag. Just needs a Sten magwell block and open up the feed lips a little.

And that's my wonderfull wife taking some brass for the home team in the video.

youtube.com/watch?v=8es1gCrjkUQ&mode=related&search=


PS. Those are not double feeds, they are bump fires. Trigger is really light on that lower.
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Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:01:29 PM EST
Hmmmmm......... .45GAP using STEN mags, huh? great idea. If I didn't get one of the first CNC/Khalan AR45's and now having 17 GG mags, I'd have you set up an upper to go that route.

I really like that idea!
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Link Posted: 10/8/2007 10:39:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2007 12:44:33 AM EST by TaylorWSO]

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
.45 ACP Hollow points can be fired from Sten mags in a pinch. FMJ are too long without modifying the mag. Just needs a Sten magwell block and open up the feed lips a little.

And that's my wonderfull wife taking some brass for the home team in the video.

youtube.com/watch?v=8es1gCrjkUQ&mode=related&search=


PS. Those are not double feeds, they are bump fires. Trigger is really light on that lower.


HS that video was funny

"you're going to screw up my recording"

"What did you think it was going to do"

seems like a good time for a pic




Why is everyone so fucking stupid?
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Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:29:08 AM EST
MODS - PLEASE STICKY THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:11:19 AM EST
I got an 45 cal. olympic I bought new back in 95 with 3 factory 10rnd mags, I love it. very accurate, never jams, very little recoil.
looks like I need to hang on to it didn't know they were hard to get now.


http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5967/45olyvc1.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4849/45oly2dy4.jpg
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Link Posted: 10/9/2007 10:01:19 AM EST
hwydrifter, just curious, you have an apparent carbine (16") barrel with an A2 stock - what buffer and recoil spring are you using?
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Link Posted: 10/9/2007 1:20:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcfpd:
hwydrifter, just curious, you have an apparent carbine (16") barrel with an A2 stock - what buffer and recoil spring are you using?


With my Oly .45, I use just the standard .223 spring and buffer. I've never had any problems at all.

I started out with the three converted 10 round Uzi mags that I got with the used upper. But now, since I have my CNC/Khalan AR45 lower, I'm planning to put all three of them up on the EE. I have 17 NIW (until I used them, that is) GG mags and I don't see myself ever inserting another .45 Uzi mag into a magwell again.
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Link Posted: 10/9/2007 2:03:57 PM EST
what Hawgleg44 said. I have a standard 223 spring and buffer. I bought it the way you see it. brand new never changed a thing on it.
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Link Posted: 10/9/2007 2:17:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 2:20:37 PM EST by wildearp]
I ran my .45 Oly a RRA M-4 stock, spring, and .223 buffer with zero problems.

I ran full length 230fmj in modified stens. I will put up photos of the mods if I can find them.
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Link Posted: 10/10/2007 2:03:58 AM EST
bump

I wish this would get pinned!
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Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:27:33 PM EST
AR45 upper currently under construction. Space reserved for future pics.
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Link Posted: 10/13/2007 1:41:35 AM EST
BTT Requesting a tack from a moderator.
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Link Posted: 10/13/2007 2:02:52 AM EST

" the accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny " J. Madison<
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Link Posted: 10/13/2007 5:42:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
BTT Requesting a tack from a moderator.


+eleventy million
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Link Posted: 10/14/2007 12:03:39 AM EST
Well that was a bust. I tried to join the CNC Gunsmithing forum to see of there was any more current information on the AR45 lowers and their forum software will not send me the confirmation email. I have made several requests and it always says it will send it shortly. Hours later is NOT shortly!. Anyone have any current information on the 80% lowers or if they are going into production on complete lowers anytime soon? How about the availability of the Oly parts? I really want to build one of these.

Another +1 for a sticky
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Link Posted: 10/14/2007 9:42:21 AM EST
Justin at CNC & Mitchell at Khalan are working on making the lowers a stocked off the shelf item. As it is now, you buy a 10% lower from CNC & he can send it to Khalan who will finish it in just about any configuration you want. Then he ships it to your FFL. This is just getting started & it's pretty much a two man operation, now that TC has taken a new job. They are getting barrel makers lined up to furnish 45cal barrels & will offer uppers, or so the plan goes. They just didn't know the AR45 was going to take off like it has. The market is there.

+1 on the tacked thread
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Link Posted: 10/14/2007 11:43:24 AM EST
Send Justin an email. He'll get back to you.

jwh02017@hotmail.com
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Link Posted: 10/14/2007 7:28:14 PM EST
I just had my AR45 from the beginning of the first batch out again today. I love that thing. It ate a steady diet of 200gr cast (wheelweight alloy) SWC with a charge of 5.1gr of 700X. I'm still working a few bugs out of the upper, though. I occasionally get the spent round failing to eject and getting jammed by the bolt into the face of the barrel, above the chamber. I don't know if it's a weak ejector spring or what. I can't see how that's possible since the upper is almost new, but I guess it could be a bad spring right from Oly. It happens 2-3 times every session of 200-400 rounds.

Any ideas Tango?
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Link Posted: 10/14/2007 11:50:17 PM EST
Might be the extracor needs to be cut a little deeper or opened up a little to grab the rim better. I believe part of the problem is the way Oly sandwhiches the extractor spring between the extractor and the carrier instead of the traditional AR15 method of putting the spring between the extractor and the bolt.

The spring is almost bottomed out on normal installation and I wonder if that isn't part of the problem.

Then again, it might just need that 200-500rd break in period before it stops acting weird.
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Link Posted: 10/15/2007 11:32:33 AM EST
It's seen about 1000 rounds since I bought it, and the previous owner said he shot it only 200 rounds. I'll start fitting the extractor tonight.

Thanks.
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Link Posted: 10/15/2007 6:00:23 PM EST
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Link Posted: 10/16/2007 12:25:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2007 12:25:39 AM EST by TaylorWSO]
Why is everyone so fucking stupid?
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Link Posted: 10/16/2007 7:34:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Thanks for the tack

GG mags
keep shooting new production 20 bux


Wonder if these are going to be any good?
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Link Posted: 10/17/2007 8:13:38 AM EST
They will probably be as good as any other after market mag but when there are still a good supply of military mags out there why bother?
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Link Posted: 10/17/2007 2:00:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:

Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Thanks for the tack

GG mags
keep shooting new production 20 bux


Wonder if these are going to be any good?


They are located not too far from where I live and tested their pre-production samples at the range where I shoot. When they become available, I plan to get a few and check the fit and function in the AR45. I'll post a report when I can.
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Link Posted: 10/30/2007 8:47:31 PM EST
No one makes a .45 upper but Oly?
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Link Posted: 10/30/2007 8:56:57 PM EST
Factory built, yes. Kurt at KKF makes an Oly type upper on a custom basis. I am working on my own version that does not use any Oly parts and will be available sometime late next year after all the R&D is complete.

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Link Posted: 11/19/2007 11:18:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2007 11:41:13 AM EST by MOS2111]
Duh, looked closer a bazooka bro business card.
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Link Posted: 11/19/2007 7:51:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2007 8:01:00 AM EST by buckmeister]

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
Factory built, yes. Kurt at KKF makes an Oly type upper on a custom basis. I am working on my own version that does not use any Oly parts and will be available sometime late next year after all the R&D is complete.


A comparison to a CavArms/Oly system would almost be a necessity. Ya might hafta have a beta-tester, too. (hint, hint, wink, wink)

Keep us informed on your progress.

buckmeister

edit:


Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
If the R&D works out well, there will be no comparison. I intend to put Oly out of business in the .45 game.


Ya got a herd of folks behind you on that one.
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Link Posted: 11/20/2007 12:32:33 AM EST
If the R&D works out well, there will be no comparison. I intend to put Oly out of business in the .45 game.
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Link Posted: 11/20/2007 12:40:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
If the R&D works out well, there will be no comparison. I intend to put Oly out of business in the .45 game.

Anything come out of that conversion that 465 posted yet? That was an awesome conversion for those of us still hoping for a Thompson mag.
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Link Posted: 11/20/2007 6:45:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2007 6:47:11 AM EST by MOS2111]
Not be be an nosey prick, but how would prices compare to Oly? I would be willing to wait. Also, are the tango chaser and friends lowers still avalible?
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Link Posted: 11/20/2007 11:04:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Not be be an nosey prick, but how would prices compare to Oly? I would be willing to wait. Also, are the tango chaser and friends lowers still avalible?


i believe the lowers are still available, according to the cncguns.com forum. you may want to visit their forums - www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php to verify.

lots of good info there :)
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Link Posted: 11/21/2007 6:41:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2008 9:03:36 AM EST by Desert_AIP]

Originally Posted By bob332:

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
Not be be an nosey prick, but how would prices compare to Oly? I would be willing to wait. Also, are the tango chaser and friends lowers still avalible?


i believe the lowers are still available, according to the cncguns.com forum. you may want to visit their forums - www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php to verify.

lots of good info there :)


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Link Posted: 11/28/2007 7:11:58 PM EST
Going off on a slight tangent: I have a 10mm Oly upper and it works flawlessly. It came with a modified .45acp Uzi mag. As I understand it the well is slightly expanded to accomodate the longer cartridges and of course the feed lips are narrowed.
I have used .41AE modified mags and they also seem to work, problem is with heavier bullets: 155gr and some 165's, but anything heaver has to be seated deep.

If SOMEONE comes up with a magazine setup that works and can be had at a reasionable price, I'll be the first in line.

What I'd really like is an adaptor to use 1911 magazines, then they could be interechanged between the carbine and my Delta Elite.

With the 10mm being kinda "in-between" the 9mm & .45 it's possible to use 9mm mags, provided they've enough length. ie a 1911 uses magazines demensionally the same for 9mm, 38Super, 40S&W, 10mm, .45acp only diffrence are the feed lips.
Being able to use 1911 mags would open a whole new world.
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Link Posted: 11/28/2007 7:14:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:

Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Thanks for the tack

GG mags
keep shooting new production 20 bux


Wonder if these are going to be any good?

Grease gun magazines are way too thick to insert into a standard AR lower (I tried).
Maby a Sten mag with a Hahn block could be used for the 10mm?
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Link Posted: 11/28/2007 9:27:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By fp1201:

Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:

Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Thanks for the tack

GG mags
keep shooting new production 20 bux


Wonder if these are going to be any good?

Grease gun magazines are way too thick to insert into a standard AR lower (I tried).
Maby a Sten mag with a Hahn block could be used for the 10mm?


they are referring to the lowers that are specifically designed to fit a gg mag - cncguns/tango chaser/khalan lower, bazooka bros lower and i think the cav arms lower w/ a block - these lowers will handle a gg mag in width as they have been widened to accept it
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Link Posted: 12/1/2007 10:21:31 AM EST
I so want one of these
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Link Posted: 12/7/2007 12:45:13 PM EST
i know this is gonna sound strange or stupid but why not make a mag well insert that uses standard 1911 mags? or is the mag well to deep for that? i havent looked but i know the 10 rd 1911 mags should be long enough to use. any ideas?
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Link Posted: 12/7/2007 1:26:01 PM EST
I've wondered about this, too. You can get high cap 1911 mags. I'm guessing that there's some problem with doing it this way or it would have been done by now.
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Link Posted: 12/7/2007 3:24:24 PM EST
thats what i was thinking. i was thinking maybe the mags were to short or 8 rds werent enough for most. but the 8rd mags do work just fine in the camp carbine but then again the gun was designed with that in mind not a gun that was modded to work. i would like to hear if it were possible though with the larger mags. if i had access to the machines needed and the parts i would at least try.
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Link Posted: 12/7/2007 4:11:13 PM EST
I made a block that worked with a 1911 mag but I was never able to figure out a mag catch that would work. The mags are at a sharp angle and the normal mag catch will not work. Oly made a mag catch that works with the pistol mag on their dedicated Glock lowers by make to bars that run down the dis of the magwell that are squeeze activated to release the mag.

So far to me, it's too much time, money, and effort to use a $8 mag.
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Link Posted: 12/7/2007 10:37:01 PM EST
the thing is people like me would be willing to buy a gun that uses mags i already have. being a 1911 owner i have several and that opens up commonality between weapons systems. i would rather spend $15-$30 on mags i can use in more than one weapon, plus i dont care about 30 rds in a mag. i would buy a couple of 10rd mags but i would probably stick with mostly 8rd mags just because. if someone could figure out a mag release do you think it would be worth it?
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Link Posted: 12/7/2007 11:06:08 PM EST
The logic is there but the mag catch is the real issue.
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Link Posted: 12/8/2007 12:26:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By mylt1:
the thing is people like me would be willing to buy a gun that uses mags i already have. being a 1911 owner i have several and that opens up commonality between weapons systems. i would rather spend $15-$30 on mags i can use in more than one weapon, plus i dont care about 30 rds in a mag. i would buy a couple of 10rd mags but i would probably stick with mostly 8rd mags just because. if someone could figure out a mag release do you think it would be worth it?


You may be better off getting a MEC TEC rifle upper for your 1911 frame then.
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Link Posted: 12/8/2007 10:40:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
The logic is there but the mag catch is the real issue.
the angle of the mag is an issue as well. just noticed that last night. the only way to do a mag release would be to make it into the mag well adapter. no way you could use the normal mag release.
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Link Posted: 12/8/2007 10:42:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:
You may be better off getting a MEC TEC rifle upper for your 1911 frame then.

i had thought about that but have not seen many people who have them and have asked with no replies on here about them before. if i did that i would just buy a cheap 1911 clone and use it as a dedicated lower.
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