Official .260 tOBR Thread-Pics/Range/Loads/Updated Thread Index (Page 6 of 188)
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Originally Posted By SmokieRiver:
Actually, you may be the benchmark. First reloading press I went Redding T7 with competition dies. Then I realized I might have go a little over board for just getting started with bushing and competition shell holders . . . But I hate upgrading when I can just make the purchase right the first time. I'm using a Forster co-ax press with Whidden dies. I bought all the bells and whistles before the election thinking Hiltlery would win and we would have eight more years of ammo shortages. Ammo prices are dropping and I have a shitake ton of reloading stuff, so I thought I might as well give it a try. Being OCD and tending towards being anal doesn't help. 
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Ha, hardly! I'm using a Forster press with Whidden dies. I bought all the bells and whistles before the election thinking Hiltlery would win and we would have eight more years of ammo shortages. Ammo prices are dropping and I have a shitake ton of reloading stuff, so I thought I might as well give it a try. Being OCD and tending towards being anal doesn't help. |
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Originally Posted By jaycoux:
Just don't measure the length variations of the individual kernels of powder and you will be fine... Originally Posted By jaycoux:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Ha, hardly! I'm using a Forster press with Whidden dies. I bought all the bells and whistles before the election thinking Hiltlery would win and we would have eight more years of ammo shortages. Ammo prices are dropping and I have a shitake ton of reloading stuff, so I thought I might as well give it a try. Being OCD and tending towards being anal doesn't help. |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
What, no-one else shares my OCD?
Come on guys, we need more pictures, range reports, impressions, load data, etc.! |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
What, no-one else shares my OCD?
Come on guys, we need more pictures, range reports, impressions, load data, etc.!
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Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
You're closer to the mothership than I am, just head on down! Originally Posted By Defender3:
Originally Posted By Freakinout:
Send me all your .260 stuff and I'll get right on it |
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
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I spent a little time using the Hornady "headspace" gauge tonight to measure factory rounds and some of the fired cases. The gauge measures from the case head to the datum line on the shoulder to allow proper resizing of your brass. This is supposedly a more precise way to measure versus using a set of calipers alone. Whether it is or not, it gave me another meticulous tool to play with.
ETA - I have a darned business offsite Friday and Saturday so I won't be able to go out and shoot this weekend. 
The headspace comparator and inserts. The .264 uses insert "D." 
You attach the comparator and insert one end and secure it to the caliper. I took the advice of jaycoux and used the same base as I did with the comparator. I added the anvil base to the other caliper in order to have a larger flush area for the case head to rest. 
You simply insert a case and then take the measurement. A factory Prime round: 
A factory FGMM round: 
Factory Lapua brass (unloaded, unprimed): 
A fired Prime round: 
A fired FGMM round: 
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I was asked a question about the spent casings being fire formed to the chamber akin to what happens with a bolt rifle. I'll have to do some research, but my opinion is they are not fire formed due to the rather brutal process of extraction where the case is actually stretched, and depending on the chamber, the body may also expand. Therefore, I'll be performing a full resizing on each case.
I do not have a wealth of reloading experience, and it wouldn't be my intent to get deep into reloading answers since we have two reloading forums, but what I'll be watching for are gas gun issues with case head separation (Google incipient head separation) versus a bolt gun issue of say cracks in the neck of the casing. I'm estimating, with a reasonable load, I can easily get three reloads, and maybe five before I need to be really careful. Regardless, I'll be using the paperclip test: Detecting Case Head Separation |
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Okay, I'm avoiding packing for my business offsite tomorrow and thought I'd attempt some bad science in order to reach a poor conclusion (i.e., I'm bored). Today's edition is measuring potential case expansion, but in reality it was just something to do before I really have to start packing, and a poor attempt to keep the thread going while we wait for more range and load data.
I thought I'd measure the case's to see if there could be expansion possibly caused by the size of the rifle's chamber. I used the installed comparators and simply put the case head on the top of the caliper arm to see if there was a notable difference between factory and fired, and hoping the spot where the measurement was taken was consistent using my science (heck, who needs a concentricity gauge?). The factory measurement for the Prime and FGGM were the same (the taper of the case had the measurement at the top edge of the comparator): 
The factory unloaded Lapua was a tad wider: 
The fired Prime and FGMM measured the same at: 
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Thanks for keeping the thread going.
I hope to get some range time this weekend. Although the chances are getting slim. Work called yesterday to send me out on another trip, the only problem was that I was already out on a trip. Now that is understaffed. I will post the results with the PRS Gen 3 installed if I get the free time. |
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Originally Posted By Friedcheese:
Just got my P/W Barrel in 762 and had a hell of a surprise a few minutes ago as I installed it.... I did not know there were different length hand guards
I cannot use my 14.5 p/w 762 barrel (at least not with a handguard on the rifle). Shit. 
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/FRIED303/GUNZ/20170323_191906_zpsgynlulbq.jpg |
Carry it, shoot it. (repeat forever)
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
Hard Livin' Clean Given' Cool Driven. - WWIIWMD
God Bless Texas
"... it's the socialism, stupid." - RL
|
Originally Posted By Friedcheese:
Just got my P/W Barrel in 762 and had a hell of a surprise a few minutes ago as I installed it.... I did not know there were different length hand guards
I cannot use my 14.5 p/w 762 barrel (at least not with a handguard on the rifle). Shit.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/FRIED303/GUNZ/20170323_191906_zpsgynlulbq.jpg |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
I got sick of seeing all you guys having fun with your 260s, I called the shop to inquire about barrels for sale...got a response something like April, but I wont hold the breath. Its looking good for MV outta the 22", so I think I am gonna give her a whirl. April of what year?
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Well, I'd certainly like to see a sparrel in 6.5CM, that could be a real big seller.
I'm back from the offsite, have a ragging cold and feel run down. I'm going to take it easy for the rest of today and tomorrow, and then hit the range Monday. |
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Originally Posted By Friedcheese:
Just got my P/W Barrel in 762 and had a hell of a surprise a few minutes ago as I installed it.... I did not know there were different length hand guards
I cannot use my 14.5 p/w 762 barrel (at least not with a handguard on the rifle). Shit.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/FRIED303/GUNZ/20170323_191906_zpsgynlulbq.jpg
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Originally Posted By sea2summit:
My gun plumber cut mine for free when I SBRd ETA - To clarify, having the shorter rail when you from the shorter 7.62 barrel back to the .260 with the longer gas system. |
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I made a quick trip to the range today to test the Magpul PRS and the JP Enterprises Silent Capture System. I'm happy to report each worked flawlessly and the JP SCS ran fine with the recommended spring, I didn't have to try either of the heavier resistance springs for the rifle to cycle.
The 2014 Tacoma hit a milestone just as I parked at the range: 
I ran into a guy who was shooting his 1977 SP1 that he bought for $260! We spoke for about half an hour on how he could take his 4MOA SP1 and tighten it up a bit. I think I may have solved his problem and made a LaRue sale as he was ecstatic after shooting the .260. 
My standard spot at the range: 
A test of the Prime using the TranQuilo, first three on the unsuppressed gas setting (top three) and the last two (bottom shots) on the suppressed gas setting, no issues. 
Prime suppressed: 
FGMM Suppressed: 
My brass was all over the place, from 1 to 5 o'clock. My last range trip everything was at 1 o'clock. Maybe the SCS needs some tuning or I need a heavier spring? 
My groups started to open up at the end of the day. I thought I was doing my part, but maybe not. I'm going to tear the rifle down and re-torque the barrel, as well as take a close look at the gas system. I didn't even measure these they suck so badly. ETA - All shot suppressed. These type groups are not consistent with what I could do with my LaRue 7.62 tOBR and TQ. 
Lastly, I'm thinking a lot more dry fire is prescribed. 
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
I'd be a bit worried about the +2 gas system and exposing it more than it is already. ETA - To clarify, having the shorter rail when you from the shorter 7.62 barrel back to the .260 with the longer gas system. 
Aside from them being $375 a piece
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I'm an advocate of the 3 chainsaw, two tractor, one wife, one God plan.
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
I made a quick trip to the range today to test the Magpul PRS and the JP Enterprises Silent Capture System. I'm happy to report each worked flawlessly and the JP SCS ran fine with the recommended spring, I didn't have to try either of the heavier resistance springs for the rifle to cycle. The 2014 Tacoma hit a milestone just as I parked at the range: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Tacoma-hits-6000-at-the-range-175370.jpg I ran into a guy who was shooting his 1977 SP1 that he bought for $260! We spoke for about half an hour on how he could take his 4MOA SP1 and tighten it up a bit. I think I may have solved his problem and made a LaRue sale as he was ecstatic after shooting the .260.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4255-175375.jpg My standard spot at the range: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4250-175376.jpg A test of the Prime using the TranQuilo, first three on the unsuppressed gas setting (top three) and the last two (bottom shots) on the suppressed gas setting, no issues. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Prime-suppressed-175422.jpg Prime suppressed: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Prime-Suppressed-II-175399.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Prime-Suppressed-1-175417.jpg FGMM Suppressed: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/FGMM-Suppressed-175428.jpg My brass was all over the place, from 1 to 5 o'clock. My last range trip everything was at 1 o'clock. Maybe the SCS needs some tuning or I need a heavier spring? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4243-175378.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4244-175377.jpg My groups started to open up at the end of the day. I thought I was doing my part, but maybe not. I'm going to tear the rifle down and re-torque the barrel, as well as take a close look at the gas system. I didn't even measure these they suck so badly. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4264-175433.jpg Lastly, I'm thinking a lot more dry fire is prescribed. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/whoiswinking2-zpsedadc391-175369.gif I remember some years ago Wes Grant (MSTN) tried to run a SCS on his predatobr or OBR and it messed with the accuracy bad. I'm not sure why a simple spring would cause issues, but that was his finding. I would throw in the old spring g setup and test the PRS again. |
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Originally Posted By jaycoux:
Hey defender, sorry to hear about your range trip. I remember some years ago Wes Grant (MSTN) tried to run a SCS on his predatobr or OBR and it messed with the accuracy bad. I'm not sure why a simple spring would cause issues, but that was his finding. I would throw in the old spring g setup and test the PRS again. Originally Posted By jaycoux:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
I made a quick trip to the range today to test the Magpul PRS and the JP Enterprises Silent Capture System. I'm happy to report each worked flawlessly and the JP SCS ran fine with the recommended spring, I didn't have to try either of the heavier resistance springs for the rifle to cycle. The 2014 Tacoma hit a milestone just as I parked at the range: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Tacoma-hits-6000-at-the-range-175370.jpg I ran into a guy who was shooting his 1977 SP1 that he bought for $260! We spoke for about half an hour on how he could take his 4MOA SP1 and tighten it up a bit. I think I may have solved his problem and made a LaRue sale as he was ecstatic after shooting the .260.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4255-175375.jpg My standard spot at the range: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4250-175376.jpg A test of the Prime using the TranQuilo, first three on the unsuppressed gas setting (top three) and the last two (bottom shots) on the suppressed gas setting, no issues. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Prime-suppressed-175422.jpg Prime suppressed: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Prime-Suppressed-II-175399.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Prime-Suppressed-1-175417.jpg FGMM Suppressed: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/FGMM-Suppressed-175428.jpg My brass was all over the place, from 1 to 5 o'clock. My last range trip everything was at 1 o'clock. Maybe the SCS needs some tuning or I need a heavier spring? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4243-175378.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4244-175377.jpg My groups started to open up at the end of the day. I thought I was doing my part, but maybe not. I'm going to tear the rifle down and re-torque the barrel, as well as take a close look at the gas system. I didn't even measure these they suck so badly. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4264-175433.jpg Lastly, I'm thinking a lot more dry fire is prescribed. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/whoiswinking2-zpsedadc391-175369.gif I remember some years ago Wes Grant (MSTN) tried to run a SCS on his predatobr or OBR and it messed with the accuracy bad. I'm not sure why a simple spring would cause issues, but that was his finding. I would throw in the old spring g setup and test the PRS again. ETA - Just ordered two additional AR10 rifle buffers and some tungsten weights so I can roll my own! |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
I made a quick trip to the range today to test the Magpul PRS and the JP Enterprises Silent Capture System. I'm happy to report each worked flawlessly and the JP SCS ran fine with the recommended spring, I didn't have to try either of the heavier resistance springs for the rifle to cycle. The 2014 Tacoma hit a milestone just as I parked at the range: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Tacoma-hits-6000-at-the-range-175370.jpg I ran into a guy who was shooting his 1977 SP1 that he bought for $260! We spoke for about half an hour on how he could take his 4MOA SP1 and tighten it up a bit. I think I may have solved his problem and made a LaRue sale as he was ecstatic after shooting the .260.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4255-175375.jpg My standard spot at the range: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4250-175376.jpg A test of the Prime using the TranQuilo, first three on the unsuppressed gas setting (top three) and the last two (bottom shots) on the suppressed gas setting, no issues. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Prime-suppressed-175422.jpg Prime suppressed: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Prime-Suppressed-II-175399.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Prime-Suppressed-1-175417.jpg FGMM Suppressed: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/FGMM-Suppressed-175428.jpg My brass was all over the place, from 1 to 5 o'clock. My last range trip everything was at 1 o'clock. Maybe the SCS needs some tuning or I need a heavier spring? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4243-175378.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4244-175377.jpg My groups started to open up at the end of the day. I thought I was doing my part, but maybe not. I'm going to tear the rifle down and re-torque the barrel, as well as take a close look at the gas system. I didn't even measure these they suck so badly. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG-4264-175433.jpg Lastly, I'm thinking a lot more dry fire is prescribed. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/whoiswinking2-zpsedadc391-175369.gif |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Yeah, I was thinking the same as the only variable was the JP SCS. I had all the springs with me, but it will just have to wait for the next range trip. The barrel has another 50rds through it, so it should have sped up by now too. ETA - Just ordered two additional AR10 rifle buffers and some tungsten weights so I can roll my own! Or that you just have not checked yet? |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
Are you saying it did not speed up ? Or that you just have not checked yet? |
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Originally Posted By jeep450:
this was interesting |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Yes it was! A consistent 2900fps out of a gasser with a SD of 12.5fps! |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
That was cool. $70, for 50 bullets Originally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
Yes it was! A consistent 2900fps out of a gasser with a SD of 12.5fps! $70, for 50 bullets
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Originally Posted By mettee:
I do think they would be fun to try out...no doubt they work well. Originally Posted By mettee:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
I'm not saying I'm in at all. I think I'll keep my analness at my level before I move up to Frank's. |
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I was reading a bit about digital calipers and the set of General's I use did not fare well in a head-to-head review. So, I decided to order an upgrade (yes, I'm bored again). I understand these iGaging's aren't Mitutoyos, but they were top rated for a $40 set of digital calipers. I also ordered a set of 1-2-3 blocks to measure against.
Everything is made in China these days, well, except the Mitutoyos: 
Some head-to-head measurements on a cleaned block: 
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
I was reading a bit about digital calipers and the set of General's I use did not fare well in a head-to-head review. So, I decided to order an upgrade (yes, I'm bored again). I understand these iGaging's aren't Mitutoyos, but they were top rated for a $40 set of digital calipers. I also ordered a set of 1-2-3 blocks to measure against. Everything is made in China these days, well, except the Mitutoyos: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/DSC-0336-1-176747.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/DSC-0337-176744.jpg Some head-to-head measurements on a cleaned block: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/DSC-0339-176746.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/DSC-0338-176745.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/DSC-0340-176742.jpg |
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Originally Posted By Shutterlife:
What a coincidence, I to upgraded my calipers as well, however i went with Mitutoyos |
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Originally Posted By Shutterlife:
I went with this one. Mitutoyo 500-196-30CAL Absolute Advanced Onsite Sensor Very sold feeling and built. Definitely accurate. Hoping to get out to the range on Saturday and shoot my hand loads. ETA - I don't think I can get back to the range with the .260 this weekend; I have a steel challenge Saturday and need Sunday for family time. |
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I ordered some rifle length AR10 buffers so I could have a regular weight and heavy weight buffer as I replace the JP SCS and go back to a spring and buffer combo.
DPMS AR10 buffers and tungsten weights arrived: 
AR10 buffers are shorter than the rifle length AR15 buffers. Using the AR15 in the AR10 would be bad.
AR10 rifle length buffer weight versus an AR15 rifle length buffer's weight: 
Punch out the roll pin and disassemble the components (there was still one weight in the body when I took the picture): 
Weigh the body versus the weights: 
Install the three heavier weights along with three original weights and I'm heavier, but I may need more: 
I can cannibalize a H2 or order more weights, I'll probably do both so I have options. |
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I think the Hornady 130gr ELD-M is going to change things for the .260 Rem, as we now have affordable, quality ammo with a good long range bullet, which also expands well and retains weight for hunting.
It isn't so heavy that it will run gas guns as hard as a 140gr too. |
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
I think the Hornady 130gr ELD-M is going to change things for the .260 Rem, as we now have affordable, quality ammo with a good long range bullet, which also expands well and retains weight for hunting. It isn't so heavy that it will run gas guns as hard as a 140gr too. |
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We had an inch of rain yesterday so the steel challenge was postponed (range will be a quagmire), so today will be a lazy day at home catching up.
I removed the JP SCS and it looks brand new, no carbon, marks, etc. I'll probably throw it up on the EE as I'm going back to the buffer/spring combo. 
I cannibalized a H2 buffer and took one of its tungsten weights and added it to the AR10 rifle length buffer to take it from 7.8ozs to 8.5ozs. When my other tungsten weights arrive I'll set the other AR10 buffer to 7.5 - 8oz and see which runs better. I combined the heavier buffer with a JP AR10 spring and reinstalled them into the .260. I'll see what sort of accuracy and ejection patterns I get with this combo when I can get back to the range. ETA - I also ordered a Spingco AR10 Red spring just in case.
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It was a nice day and HH6 went to Richmond for a bit so I took a quick trip to the range. It was bring a friend day so there were lots of people even though I went when I thought most people would still be at church. I ended up in the middle of the range where it's very soggy and with a guy next to me (to the right) with a nice BAR in .270, but with a brake that was killing me! I got even though when I was shooting suppressed as my brass was going to 3 o'clock and dinging him.
Anyways, I had the 8.5oz buffer and regular rifle spring in the rifle and I can say the brass ejection was very consistent at 5 o'clock. I wanted to show a big pile of brass, but the RSOs were hanging by me (checking out the .260) and kept picking it up. 
I shot better today but I still need some work on the trigger, I'm not breaking it clean. 
Here's a three group compilation where I was testing the gas system for proper cycling using the Prime with POA at the center cross. The first group was the 0.797 with the cold bore being the shot furthest right. The second group was the top right and shot on the suppressed setting (with no suppressor attached) at 0.612 and the third was a five shot group also shot on suppressed at 0.232. ETA: Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once and awhile! I did not know I shot this good a 5-shot group at the time and only found out during a target check. 
ETA II: 
Here's a 10-shot group shot suppressed (with the TQ) that came in at 0.976. The POA was actually at the top of the photo where the green/black, orange meet, so this is almost 2 inches low and 1/2 inch right with the TQ. 
ETA III: 
I'll post some updated MVs once I collate the data. |
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Here's some updated MV data. The barrel had 125rds when I clocked the rounds using the M3. Clearly the barrel is speeding up at bit for the Prime, by some 70fps. Interesting is the TQ isn't adding the 30-50fps I would have thought.
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Originally Posted By mettee:
Hey D what bullet is the Prime using? ETA - For folks that may not know, the Prime is RUAG ammo. RUAG make RWS and Norma so even though the head stamp says Prime, it's Norma. ETA II - Norma Golden Target |
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Official .260 tOBR Thread-Pics/Range/Loads/Updated Thread Index (Page 6 of 188)
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