[ARCHIVED THREAD] - LWRC vs. F&D (Page 1 of 11)
Posted: 3/10/2014 1:47:42 AM EDT
| In here we resume this thread without hijacking another thread of a different topic. |
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I have no bias toward either company since the only gas piston rifle I own has nothing to with these companies. But I find what Mr. Hall has presented as the only factual evidence supporting the situation. I don't understand how no one else finds this more common in today's world. A small business being threatened by the larger and more powerful? Mr. Hall send me one of your rifles, I will gladly use it every time I shoot and never purchase anything in relation to LWRCi. But in all seriousness if you're the truth in this, I wish you the best and hope you get what you deserve. If LWRC did in fact use you and denied you credit, that's FUBAR. Totally agree with the above post, I mean I totally understand why my Mr. Hall is so pissed off. I would too be pissed off if there were that ton of BS flying at me. This stuff is very common, that a huge business try to stomp on the little one and all the heart-fans of that huge business start stomping on you, I mean COME ON! a lot of guys around here should stop drinking the LWRC Kool-Aid. I mean this kind of attitude is as old as time, reminds me of the old Edison v/s Tesla war. I expected to see more support for the little one, well just my .02 |
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Quoted: Quoted: I have no bias toward either company since the only gas piston rifle I own has nothing to with these companies. But I find what Mr. Hall has presented as the only factual evidence supporting the situation. I don't understand how no one else finds this more common in today's world. A small business being threatened by the larger and more powerful? Mr. Hall send me one of your rifles, I will gladly use it every time I shoot and never purchase anything in relation to LWRCi. But in all seriousness if you're the truth in this, I wish you the best and hope you get what you deserve. If LWRC did in fact use you and denied you credit, that's FUBAR. Totally agree with the above post, I mean I totally understand why my Mr. Hall is so pissed off. I would too be pissed off if there were that ton of BS flying at me. This stuff is very common, that a huge business try to stomp on the little one and all the heart-fans of that huge business start stomping on you, I mean COME ON! a lot of guys around here should stop drinking the LWRC Kool-Aid. I mean this kind of attitude is as old as time, reminds me of the old Edison v/s Tesla war. I expected to see more support for the little one, well just my .02 |
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Why would we blindly support him when not one person here knows the truth of it? When all we're presented with is one side of it, presented by one of the litigants? Who, I might add, is not exactly acting like a grown-ass adult. Blindly? Hard evidence has been presented in ABUNDANCE. LWRC Kool-Aid drinker. (My apologies if that technically constitutes a personal attack, and consider it automatically retracted.) |
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Quoted: Quoted: Why would we blindly support him when not one person here knows the truth of it? When all we're presented with is one side of it, presented by one of the litigants? Who, I might add, is not exactly acting like a grown-ass adult. Blindly? Hard evidence has been presented in ABUNDANCE. LWRC Kool-Aid drinker. (My apologies if that technically constitutes a personal attack, and consider it automatically retracted.) |
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Why would we blindly support him when not one person here knows the truth of it? When all we're presented with is one side of it, presented by one of the litigants? Who, I might add, is not exactly acting like a grown-ass adult. Blindly? Hard evidence has been presented in ABUNDANCE. LWRC Kool-Aid drinker. (My apologies if that technically constitutes a personal attack, and consider it automatically retracted.) Burden of proof has shifted to you (on behalf of LWRCI). Do your best or go home. |
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The BIG question that I have not seen anyone ask yet is if the legal matters with C. Hall is in any relation to the Colt purchase of LWRC, if it is indeed in part or in relation to that matter then I can maybe see his claims and statements in the thread being some sort of insight of things, but until he makes something like that clear it remains a bit out of touch on the original thread. Hopefully he can fill us in with such info regarding the above question. The answer to that is yes: either at least partially, or completely related. Here are some more facts to consider... Jesse Gomez and Darren Mellors were each paid a salary of over $600,000 last year. They are not owners or shareholders of LWRCI, they are only employees. Jesse Gomez is so incompetent that he had to hire me (at 24 years old) to get his flagship rifle off the engineering docket and into production. Darren Mellors is not far behind. Neither of them have any substantial engineering or machining talents, whether or not related to firearms. At this time Jesse Gomez and Darren Mellors are holding the CEO, minority shareholders, and you the customers hostage on the Colt "deal". They are not presently coming in to work at this time (yes, on strike) until their demands are fulfilled; which are as follows: They are now claiming to be so valuable to the continuance of LWRCI (as spokesperson and quasi-"engineer") that they should each be awarded 21% of the new Colt/LWRCI plus 1% of all sales proceeds going forward. I suppose a $600k salary for monitoring a forum all day and pretending to be a critical part of the operation just isn't good enough. Stand-up guys right there. The more that is revealed, the more I tend to have sympathy for the other individuals these two unsavory fellows have put LWRCI in. For years they have been acting as the face of LWRC/LWRCI, but in reality they simply pawn the hard work onto others and take sole credit for it (the contents of my two lawsuits against LWRCI are prime example of that). Now they expect Colt to treat them like indispensable Gods. Or else.... they wont come to work (we'll just show you how God-Like we are!) At the same time, Colt is presently reviewing the lawsuits with F&D to evaluate what their potential liability will be if they buy LWRCI prior to resolution. If the minority shareholders of LWRCI, the CEO/owners, and their customers ever read this, and among those who have/had no involvement in the subject matter of F&D v LWRCI, I do sincerely apologize for having to take your company to task on account of the maliciousness from Darren Mellors and Jesse Gomez transpiring to bring us to this point. Much like their inflated salaries and unearned demands, ultimately their transgressions will come out of YOUR pockets in some form or fashion, but know that I wish it would come solely out of theirs as individuals, instead. I also express my sympathy and best wishes to all those other LWRCI employees who work hard to deliver/service thousands of rifles monthly, who get little to no face-time or credit in spite of Mellors and Gomez. That is all. I am done arguing about it. The rest will be done in court. Some pretty bold allegations here... 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why would we blindly support him when not one person here knows the truth of it? When all we're presented with is one side of it, presented by one of the litigants? Who, I might add, is not exactly acting like a grown-ass adult. Blindly? Hard evidence has been presented in ABUNDANCE. LWRC Kool-Aid drinker. (My apologies if that technically constitutes a personal attack, and consider it automatically retracted.) Burden of proof has shifted to you (on behalf of LWRCI). Do your best or go home. Is that the same alternate universe where saying "FACT!" after an allegation makes it hard evidence? Am I actually affiliated with LWRC, and therefore act on their behalf in this phantom alternate timeline? In the reality to which you seem to be tuned, is a halberd the ultimate home defense weapon, well beyond carbines and shotguns? Your statements are just getting more and more bizarre.  |
| I am not one to speculate and I personally have invested greatly in the LWRC brand, so I much like many others is also concerned with regards to where things will go with LWRC as it dictates the investments into the Brand and the future of what I own currently. I will however say that if what Mr. Hall claims is true that it is indeed sad on LWRC's part. I'll also just say that as of this point Mr. Hall's posts seem to be the only words being added to the news of the Colt purchase of LWRC and as this maybe most likely legal advisement on LWRC's part to not engage in any mentioning of the current pending sale of the company or something else along the lines I only hope us LWRC guys will get word soon as to the future of LWRC as it stands and as we know it. |
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IF Mr. Nutjob is proven the victim I would never buy another L'dub. Right or wrong I would never buy anything F&D based on his performance here. I bet you do... you know you want to. Based on your attitude, I'll pass. You'll be glad to know I love my new (1 of 500) IC, and my SPR. If they evaporated I'll go back to DD and KAC rifles. I shot 10's of thousands of trouble free rounds with them. PWS and Noveske are top candidates also. |
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I think I speak for many when I say my main concern from the legal fallout is, in the future, will I still be able to buy what I want from LWRC or F&D when I want it? Why would you want to buy F&D products? I buy based on whether I like the product, not based on whether I like someone on a forum. |
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I think I speak for many when I say my main concern from the legal fallout is, in the future, will I still be able to buy what I want from LWRC or F&D when I want it? Quoted:
... Now, I don't buy personalities just like I didn't date good personalities when I was younger. ... Now, I can't say at this point if the FD 308s are all [that is] claimed but the pictures look incredible and the claims look promising and if anyone here thinks your brand loyalty ... will mean Scheise to me in what I buy you don't remember past threads with me. ... Wulfmann removed...krp I hope his lawyer does better in court than he does in keeping his client in check. I will boycott any company that pisses on the Bill if Rights or is a jerk directly to me, but not for being an idiot in public. Hell, we have all said things that were taken other than how we meant it - just not usually in a continuous stream over the course of a week. 
So I still plan to take a drive down to Texas this autumn and look at F&D's wares. And if they measure up I'll even buy one. Just don't look for me to post photos. Thanks to Mr. Hall's snarkiness, anyone who does will probably get flamed. And who needs that after a satisfying day at the range. |
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I think I speak for many when I say my main concern from the legal fallout is, in the future, will I still be able to buy what I want from LWRC or F&D when I want it? Quoted:
... Now, I don't buy personalities just like I didn't date good personalities when I was younger. ... Now, I can't say at this point if the FD 308s are all [that is] claimed but the pictures look incredible and the claims look promising and if anyone here thinks your brand loyalty ... will mean Scheise to me in what I buy you don't remember past threads with me. ... Wulfmann removed...krp I hope his lawyer does better in court than he does in keeping his client in check. I will boycott any company that pisses on the Bill if Rights or is a jerk directly to me, but not for being an idiot in public. Hell, we have all said things that were taken other than how we meant it - just not usually in a continuous stream over the course of a week.
So I still plan to take a drive down to Texas this autumn and look at F&D's wares. And if they measure up I'll even buy one. Just don't look for me to post photos. Thanks to Mr. Hall's snarkiness, anyone who does will probably get flamed. And who needs that after a satisfying day at the range. removed...krp Come on down, buy a rifle or not, I'll take you for dinner. |
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Honestly I could care less either way. I like both my lwrcs and Id like to have one of fds 308s or 338s. Not to mention more lwrcs. Im just sick and tired of infighting amongst the gun community.
I dont know what happened, there are always THREE sides to a story. Nor do I think its any of my business unless it affects my ability to get lwrc OR fd parts/rifles in the future. |
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I can't believe I missed it. Stupid job takes all my fun away  Same, curse the night shift and sleeping during the day! Tired of being a vampire and missing the good stuff. 
ETA: Going to be a difficult thing to prove damages, when there are so many potential customers here making comments that they will never buy one of his rifles, simply based on his demeanor. A good attorney will pull the comments and exchanges and use them against Mr. Hall but that is why most attorneys will tell you to shut up, when a lawsuit is going on. Everything can and will be used against you. Honestly, I'm in the same camp, I'd of been intrigued/interested in his rifles before, especially the 338 model, but won't ever own one now. |
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Agreed, what did we miss, in a nutshell? Anyhoo, I can see a slander lawsuit that follows. Mr. Hall has a future destined for bologna sammiches, while living in a van down by the river. More like Great Value pinto beans -- have you seen the price of bologna lately
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Well, he's locked, at the very least. Waiting to see what his next account is going to be. He hasn't been locked yet. Gunnut - didn't know you came to these here parts.  Everyone is a piston fan wether they admit it or not 
Well, even the traditional AR15, with a gas tube, is still a piston system.... Just internalized instead of externalized
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| The BIG question that I have not seen anyone ask yet is if the legal matters with C. Hall is in any relation to the Colt purchase of LWRC, if it is indeed in part or in relation to that matter then I can maybe see his claims and statements in the thread being some sort of insight of things, but until he makes something like that clear it remains a bit out of touch on the original thread. Hopefully he can fill us in with such info regarding the above question. |
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The BIG question that I have not seen anyone ask yet is if the legal matters with C. Hall is in any relation to the Colt purchase of LWRC, if it is indeed in part or in relation to that matter then I can maybe see his claims and statements in the thread being some sort of insight of things, but until he makes something like that clear it remains a bit out of touch on the original thread. Hopefully he can fill us in with such info regarding the above question. The answer to that is yes: either at least partially, or completely related. Here are some more facts to consider... Jesse Gomez and Darren Mellors were each paid a salary of over $600,000 last year. They are not owners or shareholders of LWRCI, they are only employees. Jesse Gomez is so incompetent that he had to hire me (at 24 years old) to get his flagship rifle off the engineering docket and into production. Darren Mellors is not far behind. Neither of them have any substantial engineering or machining talents, whether or not related to firearms. At this time Jesse Gomez and Darren Mellors are holding the CEO, minority shareholders, and you the customers hostage on the Colt "deal". They are not presently coming in to work at this time (yes, on strike) until their demands are fulfilled; which are as follows: They are now claiming to be so valuable to the continuance of LWRCI (as spokesperson and quasi-"engineer") that they should each be awarded 21% of the new Colt/LWRCI plus 1% of all sales proceeds going forward. I suppose a $600k salary for monitoring a forum all day and pretending to be a critical part of the operation just isn't good enough. Stand-up guys right there. The more that is revealed, the more I tend to have sympathy for the other individuals these two unsavory fellows have put LWRCI in. For years they have been acting as the face of LWRC/LWRCI, but in reality they simply pawn the hard work onto others and take sole credit for it (the contents of my two lawsuits against LWRCI are prime example of that). Now they expect Colt to treat them like indispensable Gods. Or else.... they wont come to work (we'll just show you how God-Like we are!) At the same time, Colt is presently reviewing the lawsuits with F&D to evaluate what their potential liability will be if they buy LWRCI prior to resolution. If the minority shareholders of LWRCI, the CEO/owners, and their customers ever read this, and among those who have/had no involvement in the subject matter of F&D v LWRCI, I do sincerely apologize for having to take your company to task on account of the maliciousness from Darren Mellors and Jesse Gomez transpiring to bring us to this point. Much like their inflated salaries and unearned demands, ultimately their transgressions will come out of YOUR pockets in some form or fashion, but know that I wish it would come solely out of theirs as individuals, instead. I also express my sympathy and best wishes to all those other LWRCI employees who work hard to deliver/service thousands of rifles monthly, who get little to no face-time or credit in spite of Mellors and Gomez. That is all. I am done arguing about it. The rest will be done in court. |
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A few years ago I wanted a REPR. I just thought it was the hottest 308 AR anyone ever dreamed of and familiar with LWRC quality and accuracy I mentioned my desire and eventual intention on this forum.
What was intriguing was the IMs and some emails (from those who knew that) basically telling me I would be very disappointed in accuracy. However, none of these people wanted the flak from the fan boys that attack people for saying anything but devote worship for LWRC products. I can attest to their devotion to their brand and felt the sting many times although interestingly most have now come to feel i was not so wrong about PWS. Now, I don't buy personalities just like I didn't date good personalities when I was younger. Fact is after much discussion with REPR owners I feel it is a fine combat 308 AR but no sniper. The SR25 and Les Baer 308 snipers are true snipers with excellent accuracy but they are DI and it seemed a 308 piston AR that could match a Baer was not possible. Now, I can't say at this point if the FD 308s are all claimed but the pictures look incredible and the claims look promising and if anyone here thinks your brand loyalty sometimes blindly so will mean Scheise to me in what I buy you don't remember passed threads with me. If, and I say if, I lean towards a 308 sniper I will consider the FD but not the LWRC and that is not any disrespect to LWRC it just means I buy what I want, what I feel suits me and not what makes fanboys jerk off too. That said LWRCS SPR ICs are the nicest AR15/M4s being made (IMO) although the PWS MK1 Mod1 is still a better value and more practical gun as a shooter so I am not LWRC basher just feel the REPR is a combat rifle not a sniper and comparing it to the various snipers is just not fair to it. What it does it does well Seems like MR Hall does not understand the feelings of the LWRCI base which is: 
Wulfmann |
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You must not sleep !
Most accurate thing you've said all week. Assumption of "its no good if its not mass produced" is kindof bassackwards. I'm not assuming mass produced is better . Typically LWRC orders take MUCH longer . Both my SPR's did . I just got lucky with my timing on this one . I understand you just can't help yourself because you HATE LWRC . Got it ! I don't "hate" LWRCI at all. If they get rid of Mellors and Gomez, I would love for the company to come down to Texas and increase the local competition. Regardless, F&D still builds an objectively better rifle... And that is your opinion, which has proven itself pretty twisted. I see no one else bragging about how great their f&d rifle is? Nobody, where's the love? |
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I have to say, your rifles look bad ass Mr.Hall. Quality looks top notch, wish I had the money for one. The BCG, the connection of the rail to the upper.. Very cool.
Anyone who hasn't went and looked at the rifles this guy is making, check it out. Even if you hate his guts, I doubt you can say f&d rifles are shitty. A .329 group!?! Damn Here's the link for those that don't want to admit to searching for the website or whatever. Fd308 |
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I have to say, your rifles look bad ass Mr.Hall. Quality looks top notch, wish I had the money for one. The BCG, the connection of the rail to the upper.. Very cool. Anyone who hasn't went and looked at the rifles this guy is making, check it out. Even if you hate his guts, I doubt you can say f&d rifles are shitty. A .329 group!?! Damn Here's the link for those that don't want to admit to searching for the website or whatever. Fd308 I don't like them. Never heard of them either before this whole incident. I'm wondering if this could possibly be a publicity stunt to garner attention. |
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c_hall reminds me of several very talented, very intelligent engineers I've been friends with through the years - Brilliant in a room full of metal and machines, horrible in a room full of people.
My REPR is amazing, and either an FD338 or NEMO 300WM is on my long list. |
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Quoted: Used to own an M6A2. Was a great rifle. I don't own any piston rifles at the moment. I do plan to pick up another LWRC in the future. Never heard of F&D. This thread should be moved to GD. It'd be much more entertaining. |
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I have to say, your rifles look bad ass Mr.Hall. Quality looks top notch, wish I had the money for one. The BCG, the connection of the rail to the upper.. Very cool. Anyone who hasn't went and looked at the rifles this guy is making, check it out. Even if you hate his guts, I doubt you can say f&d rifles are shitty. A .329 group!?! Damn Here's the link for those that don't want to admit to searching for the website or whatever. Fd308 I don't like them. Never heard of them either before this whole incident. I'm wondering if this could possibly be a publicity stunt to garner attention. HAHAHHA. Come on man, I am an Adams Arms fan boy and could never afford a rifle like this or even an LWRC. And when it really came down to it, I would probably buy another AA rifle and spend the ret on ammo and classes. I have nothing gainst LWRC an love their rifles, I just don't have anything tied up in either company so I could care less, just have to admit when I see a beautiful rifle. We all agree this dude could learn to treat people with a little more respect. I looked into Hall's other posts on other forums and for the majority everyone thinks he is a prick, the problem is that how do you judge somebody's tone through text? Just because I am not quick to hate some Dude that I have never met and never talked to, because he bad mouths your favorite rifle... Doesn't mean it's a "stunt" |
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Used to own an M6A2. Was a great rifle. I don't own any piston rifles at the moment. I do plan to pick up another LWRC in the future. Never heard of F&D. This thread should be moved to GD. It'd be much more entertaining.
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