TAG for the BLT 'after' pics 15 pages from now


When you say you 'got them in black' can you explain that for this city slicker?

Chickens, pigs, and cows are our friends and should not be eaten?

All god's creatures need eatin'.
Even us.

Feral, are you setting up a breeding program or are you just going to fatten those boys
up for slaughter and go again next year?
What's the economics of breeding vs. buying?

They sure are cute..........in a bar-b-que sort of way.

Thanks for the pig pics.  I wouldn't have worried about the color of the pigs- your hamps didn't sunburn in their white stripe, did they?  They don't need much shade, just some.  And if they can have a nice wallow so they can get some mud on their sides they need even less shade.  I'm told the reason white / light skinned swine are preferred by commercial enterprises is because black hairs on the product are objectionable.  (They are ALL objectionable to me!)

Are they eating any squash yet?  Are you growing summer or winter squashes (both?) for feed?

UNTILL PROPERLY COOKED

CHEF

PETA member for 50 years



People Eating Tastey Animals....

You should have got 4 of them, so you could do a whole-hog-cooked-in-a-pit pictorial for us with one of them.  I've always wanted to do that.  Do they have any banana leaves in PA?

we are all set up, but people wanted $75 for a feeder pig this spring (and were apparantly getting it), I refuse to pay that much for a feeder (35/40lbs).

It's worth $40

I'll get some in the late summer/early fall.
For now, the pig pen is full of chickens, we are a bit overwhelmed on chickens.

Check out the username of who posted it...

Good luck with the piggies this year; I rather enjoyed last year's thread.  I'm not sure I could bring myself to keep an animal and then kill it for food, I have too much of a soft heart for animals.  I spend lots of time helping find homes for abandoned or neglected animals at a shelter and branch of the Humane Society.  In fact that is where I got our three kitties.

Don't get me wrong –– if you can do it, more power to you.  I'd probably be able to do it if I were hungry enough though...

a Sow (mama pig) is a depreciating asset.

The risk is much greater to lose pigs from 0 to about 8 weeks.
You also either need to AI or have a male pig (name escapes me?  help?)

lot of food for not much.

Buying a feeder pig is about $40
They take the risk (a litter is about 10 pigs, more or less, you get 2 to 3 litters a year)

but you have to feed them to about 8 weeks and about 35/40lbs or so to sell them for $40

Then you buy the feeder and fatten them up to 200/250lbs or so.

The best deal right now is to buy a 75/100lb pig and finish it off to 200/250lbs

Have you looked into farrowing your own replacement stock, or does that exeed the intended scope of your operation? Has this breed been pretty disease resistant?

"boar".




While commercial farms can be this productive, typical small-farm results seldom exceed 2 litters per year with 6-8 pigs per litter actually weaned.  It will take about 600 pounds of feed to raise a weaned pig to market size.  

The length of gestation of a sow is 114 days.

Didn't want to fool with them over the hot summer months, so waiting until fall to get more.
Seem to recall it taking a lot more feed to put weight on them when it's hot, vs cooler weather.

And haven't yet lucked into free feed again, although my younger brother somehow wound up with 40,000 lbs corn.

Plus, we kept all 3 we killed this spring, so we're fixed for pork for a while yet.

Thanks for starting this thread.  I just printed out all 120 pages of last year's Family Hog thread for my dad becaus he wants to raise a pig.

Isn't rape a lot like canola?  I flew into Manchester England from Frankfort when the rape seeds were all in bloom.  There were giant fields of bright yellow.  It was really neat.  

R.

This one is ready for the pot.

Canola is Rape seed oil.
It's a marketing ploy, they figured nobody would buy and eat something named "Rape".

The "Can" in "Canola" stands for "Canada".

It is pretty. I saw acres of it in Kansas coming back from Vegas on I-70.
But not as pretty as the fields of Sunflowers.

Too big for the pot just above him, though

Are lambs ok to eat?

Cause I hear they taste great, properly prepared!

I think I went on a blind date with it's sister a few years back.






 

screenname

We only had a couple of cold snaps where the water froze up, so not as much of a problem here.
And like I said, we're working to eat our way thru the last 3.

As far as showing, mine "borrowed" some for fitting and showing at the spring show this year.
BUT, they want to show market next fall at the fairs, so I'll either have to talk them out of it next spring, or give in.


Did get to see one pig have a heart attack and drop stone cold dead after a show last month! (70-100#)
Boarding them back to pens after the kids finished showing (LOTS of fights this time), and one started squealing uncontrollably.
Went into some sort of seizure, then keeled over!
Onsite vet said heart attack, and that it happens from time to time.

I felt bad for the little girl who owned it-it was her show animal and one of her market hogs.

But it didn't go to waste!

They look a lot bigger than the ones you got last year. The ground seams to of recovered just fine from the last 3 pigs. How much weight are you estimating them to be at slaughter? Did you guys already eat all that meat from the last ones? Looked like you got a good amount. How long did it take for the smell to go away from the last 3 you had? I would like to have a few pigs myself some time. I always have plenty of venison in the freezer so I could mix it and make some good sausage. Hell I just finished my chicken tractor the other day. I don't even have chickens yet. Thanks for the pics. Keep um coming.

I had a friend feed his all sorts of left over produce;mostly water melons, 'lopes, corn, and some squash.
He was getting it from a neighbor who had a roadside stand-told him he'd give him a hog come fall, if he kept him supplied.

Said it became a problem because that's ALL they would eat-stopped touching regular feed, and didn't gian as fast as they should.
Also said he THINKS you get a "softer" hog feeding so much produce, meaning meat quality wise.

He's been breeding and raising hogs a long time, so MAY be something to it.

Funny aside:

When grain got so high a while back, all the folks around him got out of hogs.
He actually bought a bunch of feeders for $20 a pop!

Last year, he bred 9 sows and was selling pigs for $70, as the local supply was LOW!

When "swine flu" first broke, he sold them ALL-figured it might scare folks off pork.
Stepped up his beef.

My pen was fairly large (25X60+?) with 3 in it, and it never really smelled.
Also, heavy clay soil, so held water, broke down slower.
Garden in it now, but will put pigs back in this fall, and repeat garden there next spring.
Of course, that was in cold weather, so expect worse in the heat.

I'd say that with 2 pages in less than 24 hours, this one is well on its way!


I like the looks of that sausage.  Have you thought of making hamburgers with it?  Just make big patties and put them on hamburger rolls for a change...  it's pretty good!  (Won't work if your kids only eat certain brands of hamburgers, though)

Speaking of hamburgers, when are y'all going to get a calf for a beef?

ETA: Don't forget to give those hogs a good worming.

ETA2:

That's what I REALLY wanted to tell Hk_usp_40 to do in his "How do I prep the soil for NEXT year's garden" thread.

If Piperazine is still available (I think it is), holding their water for 1/2 day is really easiest.  You just pour 1/2 cup or something of the liquid in a bucket of water and pour it into their water trough- they'll drink it dry right away (usually).



Starting a calf for beef would not take much preparation or room until it is about 6 months old.  A square of hog panels would do for several months.  I wouldn't put it in the same pen as the hogs at the same time, though you could swap pens between them.  Didn't you post pics of a VERY nice old barn?  Why wouldn't that work?

I'm not real familiar with the Dexters but I've seen them.  One thing that comes to mind is that they are low to the ground, as in short.  And that might make milking one a pain in the lower back.  Keep an eye out for an old 3-legged milking stool, that's what they were made for.  Have you seen the milking platforms they use for goats at a fair?  You could fix one up for your cow and make it easy on you ergonomically.

Regarding the Dexters, I know that "homesteaders" like a lot of breeds that are no longer popular for commercial production.  You might want to think hard about what is your goal for having the animal?  In my mind, dual-purpose animals aren't usually the best option.  Maybe adequate, but certainly not the best at either purpose.  

Unless you have more than about 10 head of cows to breed, keeping a bull doesn't make very much sense economically.  Even then it is probably not the smart solution.  AI is the way to go unless your cows are running thousands of acres and you never see them.  AI just offers too much improvement genetically to tie yourself to an unproven bull.  A bull will take as much feed and space as a cow- wouldn't you be better off to have two cows instead of a cow and a bull?

From what I've seen of your homestead and family here on ARFCOM, I recommend a young Jersey cow.  They are small (usually 800-900 lbs) and have a good temperament, making them easy to handle even for young kids.  Not much larger than the Dexters.  I don't know how much milk a Dexter gives, but I'm certain that Jerseys typically give more and everyone knows that milk from a Jersey is the best.  I would not recommend raising Jersey calves as beeves, but Jerseys are famous for "taking on milk calves" ie you milk out your bucketful and then turn the calves in on her, often three at once.  AI for Jerseys is not a problem and there are a lot of bulls to select from.  You are only going to get one calf a year from a cow (at best) with only a 50 percent chance of it being a male, so you aren't exactly guaranteed a beef every year whichever way you go.  Just go buy some beef calves and raise them on your Jersey cow.

The water thing didn't work so well.
What did work REALLY well, was we mixed it in with some expired mac and cheese (cases of it) and they never noticed the meds and they killed it all in about 5 minutes.

I think anything lightly expired would work fine, they certainly don't care, they eat it right down and you always have something that's gone slightly old or you don't like.

To get the most off of pasture for hogs, you have to remove them before they eat or trample it to the ground.  Kind of like when mowing your yard, you only want to take down about 2/3 of its height at a time.  You want the pasture to rapidly grow right back and it won't do that if they've dug out the roots.  If you have to plant and re-plant you are going to have them in one pen too long before the first one can grow enough.  (This is only if your plan is to rotate pasture as a foraged diet)

If you aren't as concerned about maintaining the pasture, once they eat it down consider doing something like a cover crop of peas or beans.  I know these hogs will be gone in November, but there is still time to get in a thick patch of field peas or green beans for them to enjoy.  Something like that should be cheap to put in and would probably produce more than a pasture mix or rape.  Wheat or oats would probably be good.  You might fence off a corner and plant a "trial".

From your pictures it looks like it would be VERY easy to divide each of those pens into three or four.  That would allow you to intensively graze each small plot for a day and still allow each plot a week to recover from the grazing.  The big downside is the labor of moving the hogs each day, but they'll get used to it pretty quickly.  Feral jr looks big enough to get that job done.

Feral, do you not have a head gate for cattle?  (I'm not talking about for the hogs, but for the cows if you get them––makes AI, worming, etc, much easier)



I also would recommend a Jersey or a Guernsey, but that's not a beef animal. I also recommend AI over keeping a bull. A bull is basically dead weight except for the four minutes every year when he's breeding the cow. The rest of the year, you're feeding a walking PITA.



AI has become so reasonable in cost nowadays––much cheaper, as a rule, than keeping a bull.



Bozeman said:







This is what my vet recommends too. Withholding feed for a morning and then putting the wormer in something they'll wolf down right away––fast enough to ensure each animal gets his correct portion of wormer. (This when I've researched and considered keeping meat stock, which I have not done since I was a kid)

Speaking of the dual-purpose animals and/or putting beef calves onto the jersey cow....



But if you do that, you're going to lose your milk. And if you want year-round milk, you'll need at least two cows.



You'll have to market the bull calves, which won't bring much unless you're buying high-end registered stock.



I'm thinking that if you're going to be keeping cattle, you may want to keep two jersey cows and go AI for milk, and feed out a steer for meat each year. I know that complicates things, but in other ways it keeps things simpler too.



One thing about milking (and milking by hand in particular) that most people don't think of.....you have to get that cow trained to let you milk her. Once she's trained, gentle and stable, that's a nice asset. YOu don't really wanna go slaughtering her and going through the hassle of starting over with a new one every year or two. Plus, you do kinda get attched to the milk cows (your kids will, too, big time––nothing more "maternal" than a milk cow). They get to be almost like pets no matter how you try to isolate them mentally as "market animals".



You can better keep the beef cows separated as "meat" like the hogs, and the milk cows are around longer, for more of their natural lifetimes. A good jersey or guernsey will give a lot of milk (with high butterfat content, which I bet Mrs. Feral is after) for a long time.



Oh, and I'll add this...if there is commercial milk production up there (it's almost gone down here) and they have 4-h and FFA dairy showing, showing a dairy calf is a LOT more fun and less hassle than showing a hog. You can really tame down and train a dairy calf for show (halter and all that) with the brushing and trimming and such, in ways that, with hogs, it's less...well..interactive I guess? And Jerseys and guernseys are little cows as compared to Holsteins. They're naturally cleaner too. (I'm thinking of your kids here..that oldest one looks about four years from starting to consider showing in junior classes)



Kitties, who does not like Holsteins

The length of gestation in cattle is 281 days (roughly 9 months).  They have a 21 day estrous cycle.  Under ideal conditions, you could potentially get a calf every 10 months.  One calf every twelve months is more realistic.  The dairy industry generally considers a 305 day lactation to be the standard by which production records are kept.  The series can be explained:
(1) cow freshens with calf
(2) 60-90 days later, cow comes into "heat" and is bred
(3) cow is turned "dry" two months before her calf's due date
Most often, the dairyman's goal is to get that cow bred back as soon as is reasonable rather than planning for her to freshen at a certain time of the year.


Agreed.  Sell the Jersey bulls and buy a nice beef calf to replace it.


Or just get one cow and take a two-month break each year.


LOL!  Most heifers will be easier to train to milk than it will be to train you to milk one!  IF you plan to milk a cow out by hand, you ARE going to have sore arms until you get used to it!  And I've know Jerseys that produced 5 gallons in the morning, and another 5 at night.  A more average is 3 gallons per day, though.


Dairy cows are often productive for 15 years.  Jerseys will probably average 5.5% butterfat, but sometimes in the winter when they aren't producing as much milk the butterfat content can exceed 10%.


Oh, 'c-mon, how can showing a dairy animal be NEARLY as much fun as having the guys turning your hog into the Midway while you go get something to eat?  You'd think King Kong was loose or something.......


Skunkum, who Agrees with Kitties on this and likes all of the colored breeds (those Brown Swiss can be HUGE!)

***Jerseys need about 1/3 as much feed as Holsteins.
PS- If I don't stop talking about cows, you're going to have to start a thread for them or we'll have this hog thread clogged up!

Skunkum said:





And better for the cow.



And although breeding for a given time of year is not that common in commercial dairy farming, it is done very successfully by the small farmer who wants to even out his/her production and not have a dead spot.  Of course, that dead spot is the only way you can take a vacation.  With feeder calves you're going for the earliest possible calf for that year, so it's quite common.



Oh, and I should add.  You know the difference between dairying and prison, right?  In prison, at least there's the possibility of parole.


Kitties has an ulterior motive. Kitties doesn't particularly like hogs either.

Dairy and beef class shows are BORING!

Hogs are more like a demolition derby!
Hogs squealing, hogs fighting, kids chasing, slipping in POOP!
TOTAL MAYHEM!

What's not to like?

Point made.

Hey, BABY pigs are cute.  And cuddly.  And stinky.




But after they hit about six weeks old, they're just nasty.  And hogs are mean.  And if they want out of something bad enough, you can't keep them in.  Strongest animal I've ever seen.
 And smart.  Once they get their nose under something, or in a crack, it's over.  They just plow right through.  It's only funny when you're WATCHING it happen. Not funny when you're having to fight the damn things and they've torn up your pens or your truck rack or half of your barn.  



And the real reason I don't like pigs?  If they bite  you?  You've never had such an infection in your life.  And they like blood.  Once they get a taste of it, they'll go for it.  They'll kill stuff to get it.  I will (and have done so) face down a 2000 lb bull.  But when a big hog comes at me?  I move out of the way.



Kitties does not like hogs.

The best sausage recipe ever. I swear by it. My family loves this with their eggs.

cabbage pork sausage for 10 lbs

1 T ground white pepper
2T sage
1t ground ginger
1T ground nutmeg
1T thyme
1T cayenne pepper
5T salt (I cut this back as I dont care for much salt)
1T sugar
1 sweet onion
3 1/2 lbs cabbage core removed
10 lbs ground pork

Quarter the cabbage and remove the core then boil till tender. Remove and allow to drain and cool.
then grind cabbage and onion. Mix all ingredients and you can stuff in casings but I like it better as a patty.

Trick is you got to have fatty pork to make good sausage. If its to lean the taste will be off. Store bought is 50/50 at best