Posted: 12/29/2008 7:55:51 AM EDT
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I began my journey out of the house a few mornings ago to run some errands and my porch and steps were covered in ice as was the walk way to my vehicles. As I normally try to do, I seized the opportunity to train in this challenging environment.
It is important to train in ALL weather conditions on all sorts of surfaces. Winter is the most challenging season to train in because not only is it slippery on ice or on snow, but your dress is normally such that accessing your firearm is not nearly as quickly as it would normally be in other seasons such as spring or summer. Drawing your gun with your gloves on and shooting it difficult as well. Therefore, you need to practice drawing from concealment with your winter clothing on including gloves. Finding gloves that are thin but warm can be challenging. Thicker gloves are not ideal because you can cause a negligent discharge when placing your finger in the trigger guard. Also, you cannot feel the trigger as much with thicker gloves. When facing an assailant who is holding you at gun or knifepoint and you are on ice or snow, creating distance quickly is going to be a bit more difficult than what you might think. Regardless of how good you are on your feet, moving and defending yourself on slippery surfaces is not at all easy. If you do not train on these surfaces then your chances of surviving a situation is slim at best. How you have to move in order to stay on your feet takes some time to learn how to do. Your speed of movement is probably going to be about 1/3 of what it would normally be on dry surfaces and I am being optimistic with that figure. When facing someone who has you at knifepoint in these conditions, well, honestly, you are in serious trouble. As a general rule, you want to try and create distance when facing someone who has a knife. One good thing is that the attacker(s) are under the same working conditions as you are, and in order to use their weapon, they have to advance in order to use it. So, if you have trained under these conditions, then you can probably move “better” than your opponent. If you don’t train on slippery surfaces, well then, your chances of survival are not great. So, if creating distance when facing a gun wielding assailant isn’t a good option, what are your options? Well, most confrontations take place within 6 feet and when facing someone who has a gun drawn on you and they are extending it out towards you, odds are they have just placed the gun approximately 2 feet closer to you so now you have less than 4 feet to cover to get past the muzzle of the gun which is the lethal part of the firearm. Depending upon your distance to the attacker and your leg length, you can probably close most of that distance with one step. Your foot movement is probably going to be similar to someone who is ice skating. There are methods of running on the ice, but it is very difficult to put into writing. Alright, one key point in movement whether or not you are on ice is to keep your knees bent! Anytime your knees are locked you place yourself in danger of being off balance and that is never a good thing. We have found through out training that maintaining a lower center of gravity while moving on unstable surfaces is generally best. One thing that I see people do wrong all the time when they are falling on ice, snow, or on wet pavement is that they try to stand up and lock their knees. This is NOT the thing to do. It is a natural reaction but not all natural reactions are good ones. Now, since you cannot move very fast in any direction, what is your move once you have stepped forward towards the attacker? Well, it is important to try and step outside of the gun arm away from their free side where they can use other tools to attack you. The question is that if you are carrying your firearm should you attempt to draw it? That depends… If you know some unarmed combatives moves that are simple such as a strike to the face getting their head going back while trapping the gun arm and taking them to the ground, then by all means do something like that. One issue with drawing your gun is that you may cause yourself to become off balance while drawing your gun. If you fall with your gun in hand and lose your gun, well, that’s just not a good thing. If you handle the situation unarmed and you start to fall you can simply grab on to the attacker and take them down as well. If you fall while holding onto the attacker and they drop their gun, that is probably a good thing. Knowing how to properly fall to the ground and remain in the fight is especially critical during the winter months where your chances of winding up on the ground are fairly high. Finding yourself on the ground even if you are not in a life or death situation during this time of year is very possible. Therefore, you should practice getting to the ground safely and getting back up. The best way to fall is by bending your knees lowering your body as close to the ground as you can before you “fall” and hit the ground. Getting back up while remaining in the fight is critical as well. If you were to fall and hit your head on the ground or break your wrist while falling, you may very well take yourself out of the fight. This is why it is so important to possess the ability to fall and remain in the fight and get back up to your feet as quickly as possible. Alright, so, what other options do you think are available to you on unstable surfaces such as ice, snow, or wet pavement? ______________________ Brian K LaMaster Innovative Tactical Concepts "One Concept... Many Tools" |
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This isn't a training discussion, it is a pitch for a training course and video. Is it? So what do we do about it? It's a serious question because I get accused of the same thing at another forum. I can't start a thread that even remotely resembles a training issue and I get accused of "advertising". I think this is a good topic for discussion but so is your remark. Since your reply has already tainted this thread I'm going to go ahead and hijack it by asking what do we do to attract instructors to participate in these forums if every time one of them starts a thread they're going to be accused by someone of pimping a course or a product such as a video? How do we make a distinction? Where do we draw the line? |
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I have an easier time drawing from under my loose "parka" type jacket than I do from my elastic waisted rain jacket.
When drawing my pistol I use a modified grab-rip-draw from my tucked iwb holster. With my weapon hand I pull my jacket up, weak hand grabs shirt and rips up/away. Weapon hand takes firm grip of pistol and draws. Pulling my shirt up/away blocks my jacket from falling back over the gun. If my shirt is tucked in too tight it is difficult to get a good grip of it when wearing gloves. However, I always blouse my shirt out, and seldom wear gloves (usually only when shoveling the driveway.) As far as dealing with ice, I haven't used it in a tactical sense yet. Often times sidewalks are clear of snow, but filled with ice. Moving to the snow will allow you to have better traction for movement. It will be slower than no snow, but faster than running on ice. Something else to keep in mind in ice-prone enviroments, Small-Of-Back holsters can cause serious injuries if you take a fall and land on them. In Minnesota stolen cars and car-jackings seem to increase in the winter, while other violent crimes decrease. People leave their cars running, which "bad guys" borrow instead of waiting at the bus stop. In my town we had a home invasion / rape a few years ago. The husband opened the garage and started his truck. He left 30 min later and shut the garage. The bad guy entered through the open garage and then entered the house and raped the wife. Just something else to think about during the winter. |
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This isn't a training discussion, it is a pitch for a training course and video. Is it? So what do we do about it? It's a serious question because I get accused of the same thing at another forum. I can't start a thread that even remotely resembles a training issue and I get accused of "advertising". I think this is a good topic for discussion but so is your remark. Since your reply has already tainted this thread I'm going to go ahead and hijack it by asking what do we do to attract instructors to participate in these forums if every time one of them starts a thread they're going to be accused by someone of pimping a course or a product such as a video? How do we make a distinction? Where do we draw the line? My apologies to Mr. LaMaster for shitting on his thread. In retrospect, after rereading my post, it was a little harsh. I see your point and I came off as an ass. Now that the OP has edited his original post without the links to his training courses and videos it seems more like a training topic and less like a plug for his products. Maybe that is the line. Discussion is why I lurk here but links to your own product comes across like spam to me. It is a valid training topic, the links to the products just seemed like advertisement as opposed to a training discussion. The reason I clicked on it is because I work outdoors in the elements year round and it gets cold up here. I am always trying to learn something new. |
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I see both sides on this discussion.
It certainly is a VERY valid topic and one that could help someone realize, 'wow, you know, I have never tried drawing my firearm in a snowy/icy condition. Maybe I should practice that.' Who knows, they may take the opportunity to do just that. The input of trainers is a valuable addition to this community and one I would like to see strengthen over time. The folks that train and teach people are generous in even offering to answer questions people have or sharing situations that could require some work by your average individual. That being said, the ads for the videos could be construed as simply trying to sell products or 'spam' as it was put. If it is, we will work out the issue with that individual. No big deal. In the end, this is a technical forum on the site and I hope people can handle things with some extra tact. We are all on the same team here. (I AM NOT singling you out Justice23. These are general thoughts. Please don't take them personally) As for Mr. LaMaster, thank you for your post and I would encourage you to think about applying to become a approved/registered trainer on the site. Feel free to read the following thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=9&f=1&t=225363 The training forums are what WE ALL make of them. Ok, I'll shut my pie-hole now. 
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The additional issues associated with cold weather conditions are something I try to mention every year at all of the places where I spend time online. This year we were fortunate enough to hold a cold weather defensive pistol class that addressed the concerns of defending one's self with a firearm in cold weather. It went pretty well and I know we'll do it again in the future.
My main goal is to get people to think about it. Most people have never considered how they will access, draw, or present their weapon from under additional layers of clothing while wearing real gloves (the kind that keep you warm and not the k00l kIDz "tactical" gloves). Among those who have considered it, few have ever actually tried it in any kind of practice situation. How many have considered how their weapon will function in the cold (like below zero F)? How many have actually fired their gun with their lube and their ammo in the cold to make sure it works? Raising awareness is the first step. |
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As for Mr. LaMaster, thank you for your post and I would encourage you to think about applying to become a approved/registered trainer on the site. Feel free to read the following thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=9&f=1&t=225363 The training forums are what WE ALL make of them. I'll echo this. We look forward to your application. 
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Okay... I am going to make this brief. I believe the article I posted is a very valid topic, it is one that I am personally working on. Do I hope that I get business out of my postings...yes. I'd be a liar if I said anything otherwise. However, the point is, even in an advertisement, is there valid information in that advertisement? I believe there is. Well, at least in this case. Yes, blatant advertisements for the sole purpose of sales should be in their respective area of this forum. This topic was not a blatant advertisement as I set out to present a very valid topic and at the end I happened to think about the fact that we covered one thing in the video that is important to know regarding the subject.
BTW... My application is waiting for your approval. Thanks for the invite! Train hard, train often, and train realistically! ____________________ Brian K. LaMaster President Innovative Tactical Concepts "One Concept... Many Tools" |
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Good point! For those of us in northern cold climates, we train in heavy winter coats and with gloves as well. Train as you fight!! It was 76 degrees and sunny today. Thats why I train in my swim trunks and sandals with a cold beer in one hand! 
Ok, seriously, good point about the weather. We don't get the ice and snow here so the movement part isn't really any different. It does get cold enough to change how I dress, usually this means the addition of a coat and oftentimes a pair of gloves. Wearing a coat actaully makes it easier for me: I can CCW with a warm shirt on and leave the coat open. This allows me to brush the coat aside and draw instead of lifting up the shirt that was covering my weapon. The gloves thing is something I definitely need to work on more though. Thanks for the reminder. |
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Welcome to the forum, Brian. We appreciate your comments and insight.
Your discussion on movement is extremely valuable. Many times this year, I have found myself on a surface that was glare ice. Keep in mind that your attacker is in the same spot possibly and this can be used against them as well! |
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In the spirit of this thread, I practiced dry fire while my hands were cold and near numb. I don't wear gloves in the winter, unless I am doing some outside activity (shoveling snow, boot hockey, snowboarding.)
I tried hanging out in my garage with shorts and a t-shirt on, but my hands wouldn't get cold enough. So I put some pants and a jacket on and played with the dog in the backyard. I put my 1911 in my coat pocket after clearing and checking it several times. I'd let my hands get ice cold and then cock the hammer and practice a slow trigger pull with the pistol still in my pocket but pointed safely towards the ground in front of me. There wasn't much difference. When my fingers tips were cold enough I was able to get my finger on the trigger, but I couldn't really feel it well. The pulling motion and reset didn't seem to be affected at all. |
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We did a cold weather pistol class on 06DEC08. It wasn't as cold as we hoped (mid 20s most of the time, not cold enough discomfort), but it went okay. There was a nice slick coating of snow on the range, with a couple of icey spots. The drills with significant movement went as expected (people were careful!), and while there were some slips, no one took a spill during any of the drills.
We considered doing the "dunk your hands in ice water" before a drill, but instead we had them make snowballs without gloves. I think that helped illustrate what it's like when it's a little colder and how your dexterity can degrade with the cold. We'll do it again next winter for sure, maybe this winter. |
funny, I was at teh range last weekend and noticed that I had to change my shooting style and position due to a jacket I usually don't wear over my fleece. It was so cold that I had a glove on my non-trigger hand. My mag changes were hella sloppy and I even dropped a mag into the snow. My setup, targeting and speed were all effected by my extra layers, go figure.
I set up 3 targets at my range and had to wade through knee+ deep snow to adjust and replace targets. My Range buddy was laughing because I was huffing and puffing after running through 200yrds of snow and couldn't control my heart or breathing for a few seconds during steup and first 10 rounds shot . This would be a interesting way to train and definately opened up my eyes. |
| I'm heading out to the range tomorrow for a couple hours with my AK and carry pistol. Going to work on some transition drills and multiple target engagements. It should be about 20 degrees or less tomorrow in Minnesota. I'll be wearing several layers and a heavy jacket and gloves for sure. I'll be wearing my daily concealment setup so I'll get some good practice drawing from underneath 2 or 3 layers. |
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This isn't a training discussion, it is a pitch for a training course and video. Is it? So what do we do about it? It's a serious question because I get accused of the same thing at another forum. I can't start a thread that even remotely resembles a training issue and I get accused of "advertising". I think this is a good topic for discussion but so is your remark. Since your reply has already tainted this thread I'm going to go ahead and hijack it by asking what do we do to attract instructors to participate in these forums if every time one of them starts a thread they're going to be accused by someone of pimping a course or a product such as a video? How do we make a distinction? Where do we draw the line? Agreed, if a trainer brings us a senario we should be aware of, good for them, and better for us |
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While I'm not adverse to doing frozen-hands drills, I'm still a big fan of gloves in cold weather.
I find that it takes very little time to remove a warm, comfy glove before drawing from a holster in cold weather. I'm sure whatever time I lose at the beginning, I easily make up on the end via improved dexterity of a relatively warm, and unencumbered hand. Now, if mom would just let me untie my gloves from my parka, a lot of the bullies would probably stop picking on me anyway. They just aren't buying my "tactical glove lanyard" explanation. |