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Posted: 10/16/2016 4:30:45 PM EDT
I watched the VTac videos someone posted here. The demonstrator had an EOTech, but the video was 7 years old and wasn't sure if they had fallen out of favor to things like the RMR or Luepold Deltapoint Pro.

What about the Aim point style sights? Do the micro versions work better for that compared to the full size versions?

What about dot size? Small or large?

I am leaning towards the Deltapoint Pro or the Aimpoint PRO, but am open to experienced suggestion.

I'm just a hobbiest, but I don't want to have the wrong tool for the job (class).
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 6:47:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2016 6:48:13 PM EDT by basp2005]
Most people at a class will have some type of RDS. Aimpoint, Eotech, or an Acog. I've been to classes with people just using iron sights an they did just fine.

I replaced my EoTech with an Aimpoint PRO. Can't beat it at that price point. I've read positive reviews of the Vortex Sparc but have no personal experience.

Aimpoint PRO has a 2moa dot.
Link Posted: 10/17/2016 10:37:05 AM EDT
You should train with what you have, not build/equip a rifle for the class.
Link Posted: 10/17/2016 1:06:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By THellURider:
You should train with what you have, not build/equip a rifle for the class.
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I hear ya, buy my other AR is set up for night time vermin removal and is good at range days too. and I have a couple in-progress at the moment, so I might as well configure one or two for more tactical use.

The AR is a very versatile platform. No one is going to show up at a tactical training class with 12lb varmint rig with a 22" bull barrel and a 6.5x20 scope on it.

This WILL be the rifle I train with.

I meant to clarify this in my OP, because I knew it would come up.
Link Posted: 10/18/2016 10:50:19 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Phineas7:


I hear ya, buy my other AR is set up for night time vermin removal and is good at range days too. and I have a couple in-progress at the moment, so I might as well configure one or two for more tactical use.

The AR is a very versatile platform. No one is going to show up at a tactical training class with 12lb varmint rig with a 22" bull barrel and a 6.5x20 scope on it.

This WILL be the rifle I train with.

I meant to clarify this in my OP, because I knew it would come up.
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Originally Posted By Phineas7:
Originally Posted By THellURider:
You should train with what you have, not build/equip a rifle for the class.


I hear ya, buy my other AR is set up for night time vermin removal and is good at range days too. and I have a couple in-progress at the moment, so I might as well configure one or two for more tactical use.

The AR is a very versatile platform. No one is going to show up at a tactical training class with 12lb varmint rig with a 22" bull barrel and a 6.5x20 scope on it.

This WILL be the rifle I train with.

I meant to clarify this in my OP, because I knew it would come up.


Fair enough, then I'd grab an Aimpoint. A pro if you want to keep a reasonable budget, or a T2 if you want the top line. I shoot my Aimpoints (ML3's, and T-series) out to 300 regularly and can easily make hits on IPSC steel at that distance.

Link Posted: 10/18/2016 11:15:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2016 11:16:28 AM EDT by SuperSet72]
99% of your carbine classes will be shooting 50 yards or less so that's one reason you see a lot of red dots. Not many ranges will tie up their long distance bay for a class over 1-2 days.
Whose class are you taking?
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 4:24:52 AM EDT
At carbine course distances with most of it being less than 100yds, red dots will rule. Several are popular, Aimpoint PRO and Micro series, EOTechs and a few others.

I have been shooting the new Trijicon MRO for several months now, and it is about as good as a red dot gets for me. Less cluttered sight picture than the EOTech I have on other rifles, and a larger viewing tube than the Micro series sights of Aimpoint. Its definitely worth a look if you go the red dot route, check it out.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 8:34:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2016 8:38:06 AM EDT by tapered-pin]
Agree with all the others, I've got a couple Aimpoint T-1s and an Aimpoint PRO.
They're perfect for any engagement within 100yds on man sized targets, IMO.

I also have an EOtech EXPS 2.0 and I like it as well, it's just very large compared to the T-1s


Also IMO, you can't go wrong with anything that Aimpoint or Trijicon make, all the optics that I have on any firearm (with a larger caliber than .22lr) is one or the other.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 8:35:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2016 8:36:17 AM EDT by tapered-pin]
doubletap
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 8:58:35 AM EDT
I would recommend a red dot. Personal favorite is the Aimpoint T2, but eotechs are nice too.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 1:40:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spartikis:
I would recommend a red dot. Personal favorite is the Aimpoint T2, but eotechs are nice too.
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Originally Posted By Spartikis:
I would recommend a red dot. Personal favorite is the Aimpoint T2, but eotechs are nice too.


I'm not a fan of the Eotechs, so I was hoping everone would say either an Aimpoint style red dot, or the RMR style red dot.

Originally Posted By SuperSet72:
Whose class are you taking?


Not sure, but it will be somewhere relatively local (GA / AL)

In the videos I watch the targets were very close (5M), and speed of target acquisition seemed to be the most important factor.

I wasn't sure if it was easier to "look through" an Aimpoint, or if something like the RMR was better because it was less obstruction to the field of view.

The Leupold Deltapoint has the option of a 2.5 moa dot, or 7.5 moa triangle.

Is a larger "dot" easier at close ranges?
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 1:44:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spartikis:
I would recommend a red dot. Personal favorite is the Aimpoint T2, but eotechs are nice too.
View Quote


Is there any sighting advantages/disadvantages in using a micro sized red dot vs a "full" size (i.e. PRO).
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 1:53:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Phineas7:
Not sure, but it will be somewhere relatively local (GA / AL)
In the videos I watch the targets were very close (5M), and speed of target acquisition seemed to be the most important factor.
View Quote


Ok, I'd highly recommend Frank Proctor in Eastaboga AL as he's close to you and offers excellent training. If you do end up with a red dot, take note that there will be some parts of the class that'll have you engaging targets out to 300 yards and further. Red dot guys have a hard time with that section.
You'll also notice that Frank runs 1-4x and 1-6x optics, exclusively, now.
Good luck!
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 2:09:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Phineas7:


Is there any sighting advantages/disadvantages in using a micro sized red dot vs a "full" size (i.e. PRO).
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Originally Posted By Phineas7:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
I would recommend a red dot. Personal favorite is the Aimpoint T2, but eotechs are nice too.


Is there any sighting advantages/disadvantages in using a micro sized red dot vs a "full" size (i.e. PRO).


none with sighting. With red dots, shooting both eyes open, the housing becomes a blur and you see right through it. I've had fullsize aimpoints, eotechs, T-1s, and a couple of MROs. all work fine but i prefer the light weight of the T-1s and the MRO. When cost is no object i prefer the T-1s but since we live in the real world and money is finite, i prefer the MRO as it gives up just a hair in weight while costing a couple hundred less.

Sorry i don't have much experience with the micro RDS sights aside from looking through them briefly setup on handguns. I don't fully understand how they work but i think their emitter is exposed, and thus can get covered in dirt/debris and leave you without a dot in adverse conditions.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 4:53:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2016 4:54:21 PM EDT by tapered-pin]
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Originally Posted By Phineas7:


Is there any sighting advantages/disadvantages in using a micro sized red dot vs a "full" size (i.e. PRO).
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Originally Posted By Phineas7:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
I would recommend a red dot. Personal favorite is the Aimpoint T2, but eotechs are nice too.


Is there any sighting advantages/disadvantages in using a micro sized red dot vs a "full" size (i.e. PRO).

my answer would be yes..

BUT, only if you have really good muscle memory shouldering your weapon. I like the PRO because the larger ocular is more forgiving to cheek weld inconsistencies (the dot has more area to move around in if cheek weld isn't perfect).

I like the T-1s on Rifles and Shotguns because I've got a very consistent cheek weld on rifles and my shotguns, so it's smaller, lighter, and less obstructive of my field of view.
but in NO WAY should it be considered a negative, only a method of identifying one of your personal areas to be improved
Link Posted: 10/20/2016 1:23:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SuperSet72:


Ok, I'd highly recommend Frank Proctor in Eastaboga AL as he's close to you and offers excellent training. If you do end up with a red dot, take note that there will be some parts of the class that'll have you engaging targets out to 300 yards and further. Red dot guys have a hard time with that section.
You'll also notice that Frank runs 1-4x and 1-6x optics, exclusively, now.
Good luck!
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Originally Posted By SuperSet72:
Originally Posted By Phineas7:
Not sure, but it will be somewhere relatively local (GA / AL)
In the videos I watch the targets were very close (5M), and speed of target acquisition seemed to be the most important factor.


Ok, I'd highly recommend Frank Proctor in Eastaboga AL as he's close to you and offers excellent training. If you do end up with a red dot, take note that there will be some parts of the class that'll have you engaging targets out to 300 yards and further. Red dot guys have a hard time with that section.
You'll also notice that Frank runs 1-4x and 1-6x optics, exclusively, now.
Good luck!


That's only about 1.5 hrs from me.
Doesn't look like he has anything on the schedule for that location at the moment.

I'm running a Burris MTAC on my other AR.

That would be a difficult distance with one of 7.5 MOA dot site. Probably better off with irons.

I suppose he doesn't let you swap rifles for different sections
Link Posted: 10/20/2016 1:30:18 PM EDT
I'm right there with you. Shooting targets at 300yd+ with a red dot = hard. Magnification really helps.
I've seen dudes switch out guns so no big deal. It's your class so it's up to you to make the most of it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2016 2:12:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SuperSet72:
I'm right there with you. Shooting targets at 300yd+ with a red dot = hard. Magnification really helps.
I've seen dudes switch out guns so no big deal. It's your class so it's up to you to make the most of it.
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25 years ago I used to shoot IHMSA silhouette. For tie-breakers in the unlimited class we put the 50M target on the 200M rail. Basically an 8 or 9" paper plate size target with an open sight pistol. I was usually good for 6 or 7 out of 10.

But now I'd just be asking if there really was a target on that rail, cause I sure wouldn't see it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2016 10:54:34 PM EDT
If you can't see it, you can't shoot it. I'm a big fan of variable scopes.
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