Posted: 12/7/2010 8:22:39 PM EDT
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Apparently some fudd-o-sauruses at basic level courses and IDPA matches think Position Sul is unsafe.
(Argument is made the muzzle covers the body somehow.) So I made this here video: Posição Sul Safety Video Should answer the question quite thoroughly. |
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I'm fine with SUL for most stuff. However you WILL muzzle yourself if you're right-handed and drop to your right knee. (or if you're left handed and drop to your left knee).
I don't get tied up around positions (SUL, Down, Up, etc.). Muzzle direction should be situationally dependent, not an automatic default. Mike |
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However you WILL muzzle yourself if you're right-handed and drop to your right knee. (or if you're left handed and drop to your left knee). Not if you increase the angle of the muzzle direction slightly. It is a dynamic position, not a static "you MUST point at a X deg angle" hold. As mentioned before, let the situitation dictate your tactics, not the other way around. |
| I liked the video, but it seemed you were too much on the defensive and focusing on how Fudds believe it is unsafe... You clearly demonstrate how safe SUL is, and could have done much more walking around and/or shown what it would be like if another person were standing close by. That, and I would have added how SUL works with a carbine as well. My minor critiques, but still a nice job! |
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If you muzzle yourself while doing position SUL you are doing it wrong. Max Joseph (Tactical Firearms Training Team) is in Wisconsin every June. Go learn it from the man himself, he's a great instructor. This. Max is one of the best, and the constant attacks on Sul from pathetic little worms trying to make a name for themselves is... pathetic. |
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If you muzzle yourself while doing position SUL you are doing it wrong. Max Joseph (Tactical Firearms Training Team) is in Wisconsin every June. Go learn it from the man himself, he's a great instructor. Agreed - my point was more that in the video, the way HE is showing it to be safe, he fails to address diverting the muzzle direction to avoid muzzling a knee. Instead he just doesn't take a knee where he would have to divert the muzzle to remain safe. As noted, people need to be muzzle aware even in positions like "SUL". I use the "Down" / "Sul" position as well as the "Up" position - the position I use all depends on my environment and the circumstances I'm shooting in. Stay safe, Mike |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If you muzzle yourself while doing position SUL you are doing it wrong. Max Joseph (Tactical Firearms Training Team) is in Wisconsin every June. Go learn it from the man himself, he's a great instructor. This. Max is one of the best, and the constant attacks on Sul from pathetic little worms trying to make a name for themselves is... pathetic. This + 1,000 |
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SUL is perfectly safe. When combined with "Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire" it is EVEN safer. Why do so many people not get that? Cause when you do it with a big 300 lb belly it flags the guy in front of you.... 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
SUL is perfectly safe. When combined with "Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire" it is EVEN safer. Why do so many people not get that? Cause when you do it with a big 300 lb belly it flags the guy in front of you.... Luckily for me, I don't have that problem. 
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I've shot some IDPA Match's I could see someone breaking the 180 very easily using the "SUL ". AS a RSO I wouldn't stop you from using it in a Match but I also wouldn't give you the benefit of doubt if I thought you broke the 180. You would be DQ.
FWIW, I don't understand why anyone would want to use it in an IDPA match, and I understand why on a one-way range a range fan concept makes sense. I would also expect people to understand that in the real world "downrange" is not always a safe direction to point a weapon (after all, crowd domination and stacking are the two major situation for which Sul was developed, with each of this situations presenting people "downrange" in your "180" you should not be flagging). |