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Posted: 2/10/2013 7:53:42 PM EDT
Has anyone had training at the facility called Front Site? They sell life time memberships that allow you to take as many classes as you want for no additional fee except ammo. I've heard there are smok'n deals on some of the life time memberships. Anyone know about this place and the memberships? Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Link Posted: 2/10/2013 8:53:28 PM EDT
I went to their Pistol course through a friend. Good training, quality instructors and facility. I would recommend it, especially if you lived close or had the ability to use it to its full potential. My friend lives in Salt Lake and goes there all the time.

Link Posted: 2/19/2013 7:55:35 AM EDT
Just returned from the rifle course.  Also took some handgun courses in the past.  It's a great value for the training.  Not the best training you can get, but where else can you find lifetime training for a cheap price at any other school?  There is no alternatives if you are on a budget.  Plus it's in vegas so you can enjoy your trip after the class is over.
Link Posted: 7/2/2013 8:08:02 PM EDT
My wife and I just took their 4 day Defensive Handgun course. First class facility, great instructors...totally positive experience! I was so impressed I bought us both a lifetime membership, I can now go back and take any course they offer at no additional charge. They also have a facility in Alaska and there's talk of one being planned for Texas. They offer handgun, rifle, shotgun, and select fire courses. They're GTG! If your interested in taking a course or thinking of a membership send me an email...I have access to those "smokin'" deals.
Link Posted: 7/3/2013 7:41:51 PM EDT
Ponzi scheme.
Link Posted: 7/3/2013 7:54:35 PM EDT
If you're going to Vegas to train, go with PFC.





Link Posted: 7/4/2013 2:50:47 PM EDT
Quoted:
If you're going to Vegas to train, go with PFC.




Yeah, they have a good rep.

I wouldn't pay for instruction in outdated techniques like Weaver.
Link Posted: 7/4/2013 3:43:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2013 8:11:46 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you're going to Vegas to train, go with PFC.




Yeah, they have a good rep.

I wouldn't pay for instruction in outdated techniques like Weaver.


Agree.
Link Posted: 7/5/2013 5:53:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/7/2013 4:39:07 PM EDT
Quoted:

Yea. No one has ever successfully defended themselves using Weaver.[/div]

You know, most of the dedicated high level instructors attend classes at other training schools to learn new things, keep their skills sharp and see how other instructors do things. I know guys from Insights Training that attended CSAT classes and TLG has been to Rodgers more than once. I'm sure there are a lot more examples but I have personal knowledge of those 2.  I defy anyone to find a nationally known firearms or self defense instructor that will publicly announce that they want to go to Front Sight to train to improve their knowledge and skills.

It's not just Weaver, it's 20 plus students on the line with 2 instructors. It's the lunchtime sales pitch. It's the thoroughly disgusting marketing crap that comes out all the time.

The folks that I hear praising Front Sight are the new guys that never trained at a high level and are grateful for the low level of instruction that they got. For that client base it works well. But it's still old TTPs for low level students instructed at a high rate of throughput. I would say that if you get a cheap certificate and the travel and ammo costs are low then go for it, understanding that it's a step back to the early 90s era level of instruction .


Gringop
Link Posted: 7/7/2013 6:22:39 PM EDT


Huge class size, low instructor-to-student ratio, and "entertainment" is the feedback I hear most often from those who have gone.  I have personally not trained with Front Sight.

Link Posted: 7/7/2013 7:55:04 PM EDT
I've been a long time member of frontsight, and admit it's not the best training out there and their marketing practices are questionable.  However it is the best value training for most people.  Their weekly throughput is about 1,000 students a week, and I've seen it.  Most of these shooters are new and wouldn't otherwise attend a gun course (too intimidating, cost too much, etc).  Frontsights theme is to train as much gun owners as possible, for self defense and political purposes.  I believe they hit the mark with that.  Their memberships normally sell for $250 to take any firearms course there, which is affordable to most people.

For expert shooters (whom most people think they are but aren't), you could get better training elsewhere, but it's also good to try different schools and techniques.

As far as the mod weaver stance that is used, I think they use it for multi-gun training.  They teach the same stance for handgun and rifle (assuming shotgun and machinegun too).  So I think it's to make it simpler for students taking multiple courses.
Link Posted: 7/7/2013 9:02:41 PM EDT
Well, I have to agree and disagree with some of the above comments. First of all I'm not a fan of Front Sights marketing techniques so on that I can agree. In the 4 day course I attended we had 19 students and 4 to 5 instructors on the range depending on the event, I find that totally acceptable. The quality of the instructors and teaching techniques were very good in my opinion and as a retired NCO from the Army and trainer in a Fortune 500 Aerospace Corporation I now my way around training. Is it the best training available...no, but for the average person who wants to learn how to defend themselves with a gun it's a great bang for the buck, no pun intended. They will not transform you into a special ops operator and that is not their intent or mission. Outdated techniques? That is a matter of opinion, the weaver stance has its fans and detractors, but if you train with it and are an effective shooter then you can defend yourself just fine. Besides, in a high stress, dynamic situation will one actually think about their stance anyway? Their mission is to teach one to defend against the average street thug, crook, or punk who wishes to do you harm, who don't use advanced methods, you're not up against the Taliban or Al-Qaeda! The training facility is top notch and well run, everything on the schedule goes off like clockwork. I found the training to be effective and at the same time fun, my wife and I are going back again this fall. Just because the dude with the latest chest rig and every tacti-cool accouterment in the catalog says it sucks doesn't make it true. They are the Chevrolet of training, but everyone wants a Ferrari!
Link Posted: 7/14/2013 8:50:05 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you're going to Vegas to train, go with PFC.




Yeah, they have a good rep.

I wouldn't pay for instruction in outdated techniques like Weaver.


Yea. No one has ever successfully defended themselves using Weaver.


No one has successfully defended himself without training, either, right?  

The point is that if I am paying to learn techniques, I want to learn the most efficient ones.  Weaver's non-existence at high levels of competitive shooting show that it is inferior to Mod Iso.  If it were more efficient, it would be used.  Spare me the "competition isn't combat" bullshit, folks.  I am talking about MECHANICS.
Link Posted: 7/14/2013 8:58:45 AM EDT
Look, I work in a gun store in Vegas.  I have talked to hundreds of people who have attended their courses.  I have sold them guns, ammo, and accessories.  Based on my conversations with them, my perception of most people that attend Front Sight is either:

A. They have no other formal training and thus lack a frame of reference and/or

B. They use it to get away from their wives and spend time with their buddies on weekends (golf for guys who hate golf).

There is nothing wrong with either!  It is better than no training at all.  It's proximity to a major population center makes it an easy, turnkey destination for basic instruction.  It gets people formal training that they would not be likely to get otherwise.  These are all good things.  However, the techniques (from what I understand) and high student-instructor ratio make them sub-optimal for the most effective training.

My point is simply that there are better outfits if one wants to seek the best, most efficient techniques.
Link Posted: 7/14/2013 12:02:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/14/2013 6:04:54 PM EDT
Owner attempted to capitalize on a video of a Police Officer LODD, with the statement that if the Officer had received training from Front Site, he might still be alive...

People that attend Front Site and give it high marks don't know any better...
Link Posted: 7/14/2013 10:00:59 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you're going to Vegas to train, go with PFC.




Yeah, they have a good rep.

I wouldn't pay for instruction in outdated techniques like Weaver.


Yea. No one has ever successfully defended themselves using Weaver.


No one has successfully defended himself without training, either, right?  

The point is that if I am paying to learn techniques, I want to learn the most efficient ones.  Weaver's non-existence at high levels of competitive shooting show that it is inferior to Mod Iso.  If it were more efficient, it would be used.  Spare me the "competition isn't combat" bullshit, folks.  I am talking about MECHANICS.


So am I.


Ok.
Link Posted: 7/30/2013 12:44:53 PM EDT
You will get email spam up the ying yang.

How I got around that was made a separate gmail account, and my membership, wifes, and brothers, are all to the same email account.  Then we just check it from time to time.

His marketing skills a bit...pushy?  Yes, but I have to say...I have YET to meet a person that is/was a chiropractor that isn't into 50 different side businesses.

I would rate their training top notch, and I have no complaints.  Weaver dated?  You bet.

But what you have to realize, what you learn there is more than a high percentage of private gun owners.

Just my observations...

Ambassador member here (previous Diamond)
Link Posted: 8/5/2013 5:19:31 PM EDT
Funny how those who have the greatest criticism of Front Site also have never been there.

Those who have been there, are happy with the value for their dollars for the training received.  



I've never been there myself and am not planning to go (doesn't fit into my location or available time) but I also won't talk out of my ass about things that I have no experience in.
Link Posted: 8/5/2013 5:55:46 PM EDT


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Funny how those who have the greatest criticism of Front Site also have never been there.



Those who have been there, are happy with the value for their dollars for the training received.
I've never been there myself and am not planning to go (doesn't fit into my location or available time) but I also won't talk out of my ass about things that I have no experience in.
View Quote




Some people don't have to have sex with a dude to know that it's gay.    (sorry mods, best analogy I could think of)



I don't think anyone above has been unfair or nasty in their response and assessment of Front Site.  If it entertains people and gives them some training, fantastic.  Are there better options, YES, and several of the responses to this thread indicated that.  "It's not the best training" should not be part of the attraction for somewhere to spend your money, especially with better options available, and especially training that has consequences.  (at best, training scars...... at worst, life/death issues)



Of the individuals who do like Front Site, I would ask them what their perspective is.  Who else have they trained with?  What's their experience level?  If they have a room in their house dedicated to finely-framed training certificates, I'd probably discount their opinion.

   





Link Posted: 8/5/2013 7:48:06 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Some people don't have to have sex with a dude to know that it's gay.    (sorry mods, best analogy I could think of)

I don't think anyone above has been unfair or nasty in their response and assessment of Front Site.  If it entertains people and gives them some training, fantastic.  Are there better options, YES, and several of the responses to this thread indicated that.  "It's not the best training" should not be part of the attraction for somewhere to spend your money, especially with better options available, and especially training that has consequences.  (at best, training scars...... at worst, life/death issues)

Of the individuals who do like Front Site, I would ask them what their perspective is.  Who else have they trained with?  What's their experience level?  If they have a room in their house dedicated to finely-framed training certificates, I'd probably discount their opinion.
   


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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Funny how those who have the greatest criticism of Front Site also have never been there.

Those who have been there, are happy with the value for their dollars for the training received.



I've never been there myself and am not planning to go (doesn't fit into my location or available time) but I also won't talk out of my ass about things that I have no experience in.


Some people don't have to have sex with a dude to know that it's gay.    (sorry mods, best analogy I could think of)

I don't think anyone above has been unfair or nasty in their response and assessment of Front Site.  If it entertains people and gives them some training, fantastic.  Are there better options, YES, and several of the responses to this thread indicated that.  "It's not the best training" should not be part of the attraction for somewhere to spend your money, especially with better options available, and especially training that has consequences.  (at best, training scars...... at worst, life/death issues)

Of the individuals who do like Front Site, I would ask them what their perspective is.  Who else have they trained with?  What's their experience level?  If they have a room in their house dedicated to finely-framed training certificates, I'd probably discount their opinion.
   




this
Link Posted: 8/5/2013 8:26:47 PM EDT
250 bucks and I can attend whatever classes I want.....I'll take it....Diamond member for Vegas and Alaska here. Good training is better than no training....to each his own.
Link Posted: 8/5/2013 10:32:50 PM EDT
I have an Ambassador membership to Frontsight as well.

I haven't been there yet, I'm in Texas and don't even have my one gun at my house.

I support this guy because he has plans to build 10 firearms training institutes across the US.  The next one is (currently) scheduled for Florida, then the NE US, then Texas, not sure what's after that.

But his plan is a good one, and I support it, though it may be too little too late.  His plan is to train as many people as possible in the art of shooting and getting comfortable with guns.  This is to counteract the Socialist garbage constantly being pumped out that "Gun are evil".

Like another poster upthread, I also have lifetime Ambassador memberships to sell, PM me if interested.  

I believe, but can not confirm, that with an Ambassador membership you also get access to purchase more Ambassador memberships for resale.  This strikes me as probable because Dr. Piazza's agenda is political and he is attempting to educate the grassroots population.
Link Posted: 8/9/2013 7:33:49 AM EDT
I've taken the 4 day practical rifle class. Also trained with Larry Vickers and Super Dave Harrington in rifle. The Front Sght class was a great class.
Link Posted: 8/12/2013 7:55:46 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I've taken the 4 day practical rifle class. Also trained with Larry Vickers and Super Dave Harrington in rifle. The Front Sght class was a great class.
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Bazinga.

Link Posted: 8/12/2013 8:30:04 PM EDT
Diamond member here. Tell me where your can take your whole family for a 4 day defensive handgun class in a world class facility that is so very family friendly like Fronsight.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:27:11 AM EDT
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Diamond member here. Tell me where your can take your whole family for a 4 day defensive handgun class in a world class facility that is so very family friendly like Fronsight.
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I don't know of any other school that offers classes for children as young as 5 years old.
Link Posted: 8/18/2013 3:36:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Some people don't have to have sex with a dude to know that it's gay.    (sorry mods, best analogy I could think of)

I don't think anyone above has been unfair or nasty in their response and assessment of Front Site.  If it entertains people and gives them some training, fantastic.  Are there better options, YES, and several of the responses to this thread indicated that.  "It's not the best training" should not be part of the attraction for somewhere to spend your money, especially with better options available, and especially training that has consequences.  (at best, training scars...... at worst, life/death issues)

Of the individuals who do like Front Site, I would ask them what their perspective is.  Who else have they trained with?  What's their experience level?  If they have a room in their house dedicated to finely-framed training certificates, I'd probably discount their opinion.
   


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Quoted:
Quoted:
Funny how those who have the greatest criticism of Front Site also have never been there.

Those who have been there, are happy with the value for their dollars for the training received.



I've never been there myself and am not planning to go (doesn't fit into my location or available time) but I also won't talk out of my ass about things that I have no experience in.


Some people don't have to have sex with a dude to know that it's gay.    (sorry mods, best analogy I could think of)

I don't think anyone above has been unfair or nasty in their response and assessment of Front Site.  If it entertains people and gives them some training, fantastic.  Are there better options, YES, and several of the responses to this thread indicated that.  "It's not the best training" should not be part of the attraction for somewhere to spend your money, especially with better options available, and especially training that has consequences.  (at best, training scars...... at worst, life/death issues)

Of the individuals who do like Front Site, I would ask them what their perspective is.  Who else have they trained with?  What's their experience level?  If they have a room in their house dedicated to finely-framed training certificates, I'd probably discount their opinion.
   







If you have not been there, then your OPINION of their training mean nothing.

Your OPINION of their marketing methods is an valid opinion because you can experience that.  But, unless you attend, then your opinion of their training is meaningless.  You can have  your opinion....it just doesn't mean anything.

Opinions are like assholes................

Link Posted: 8/18/2013 4:14:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:14:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Funny how those who have the greatest criticism of Front Site also have never been there.

Those who have been there, are happy with the value for their dollars for the training received.  



I've never been there myself and am not planning to go (doesn't fit into my location or available time) but I also won't talk out of my ass about things that I have no experience in.
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I've watched some of their videos on their Youtube channel, and from what I see, they do take in lots of first timers, so that is a plus, but their TTP are a bit dated, and they put in some things in their 4 day intro level class that I wouldn't have new shooters doing (movement). I've no dog in the Weaver stance argument, as I shot that way a lot in the past, and have recently switched to Isosceles, after trying it at an Insights Academy class.

All in all, I like that they get lots of people to go and get some training, but I would encourage those who do go to branch out and try out some other instructors. Don't get locked into one way of doing things, for that way is Dogma.
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