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Posted: 8/12/2020 10:52:48 AM EDT
I have a permit with reciprocity in MN. I know the super shorty is legal in MN (at least everything I've read says it is), but is it kosher for CCW? Would only be for vehicle/hotel carry as I pass through. Federally it is considered an AOW, as it has legally never been a rifle nor a shotgun.
Link Posted: 8/12/2020 7:27:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I have a permit with reciprocity in MN. I know the super shorty is legal in MN (at least everything I've read says it is), but is it kosher for CCW? Would only be for vehicle/hotel carry as I pass through. Federally it is considered an AOW, as it has legally never been a rifle nor a shotgun.
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You just said permit, so it must be a state other than Wisconsin since I don't believe that Minnesota will "accept" or honor a Wisconsin permit.

And by super shorty, what are you referring to? An AR pistol?

Link Posted: 8/13/2020 7:59:24 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:


You just said permit, so it must be a state other than Wisconsin since I don't believe that Minnesota will "accept" or honor a Wisconsin permit.

And by super shorty, what are you referring to? An AR pistol?

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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a permit with reciprocity in MN. I know the super shorty is legal in MN (at least everything I've read says it is), but is it kosher for CCW? Would only be for vehicle/hotel carry as I pass through. Federally it is considered an AOW, as it has legally never been a rifle nor a shotgun.


You just said permit, so it must be a state other than Wisconsin since I don't believe that Minnesota will "accept" or honor a Wisconsin permit.

And by super shorty, what are you referring to? An AR pistol?



Correct, Minnesota does not recognize Wisconsin. I have a permit with reciprocity.

Super Shorty = 870 AOW, 6.5" barrel. Basically a 12 ga smooth bore pistol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbu_Super-Shorty
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 9:42:44 AM EDT
[#3]
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/624.712#stat.624.712.2 states:

"Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle (1) from which may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances; or (2) for which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, air or other gas, or vapor.
"Pistol" does not include a device firing or ejecting a shot measuring .18 of an inch, or less, in diameter and commonly known as a "BB gun," a scuba gun, a stud gun or nail gun used in the construction industry or children's pop guns or toys.


If I am reading that correctly, and this is the correct definition for MN's CCW, it looks like the super shorty meets the definition.
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 11:03:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 11:15:01 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
AN 870 requires 2 hands for manipulation, so it is not "mean to be fired with one hand". MN in general does NOT allow short barrel shotguns, which I believe any LEO will at least initially classify a short-barreled pistol-gripped 870, and courts would probably agree.

IMHO, don't risk it and bring it here. MN BCA with AG Ellison will break it off in your ass and let you fight it in court.

AR pistols are GTG however.
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How does MN handle non-shotgun, "firearm" type weapons (essentially sub-26" OAL shotguns)?
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 11:19:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 11:40:08 AM EDT
[#7]
"a weapon designed, redesigned, made or remade which is intended to be fired from the shoulder "

One note, an AOW or "non-shotgun" PGO style weapon has never been designed or intended to be fired from the shoulder. ATF specifically prohibits a stock from ever having been attached. It is similar to an AR pistol; sure...some ARs have stocks, but if it's had a stock, it can't be a pistol.

Link Posted: 8/13/2020 11:43:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 12:36:01 PM EDT
[#9]
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Yeah, I know.

But the MN definition of a "pistol" includes paintball guns, so...

I guess to say is that a LEO may well bring you in and let the courts figure it out. I tend to try to avoid such drama in my life, but you do you. We need more test cases; that is how we got a bb gun declared not a legal pistol

But perhaps someone with closer legal knowledge on these particular "firearms" will chime in.
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No argument there. An AR pistol may be the safer option. That said, still curious if anyone has first hand knowledge of how the state handles these sorts of weapons. I sure as shit won't be "writing a letter".
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 1:24:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 8/14/2020 1:30:46 PM EDT
[#11]
The basic question to me.
Is that SBS legal in MN? The answer is NO.
So that means following that logic you can not bring it into MN.
The grey area would be out-state LE personnel on OFFICIAL business on vacation NOT so much!
Link Posted: 8/14/2020 4:12:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 8/16/2020 1:16:06 AM EDT
[#13]
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Good thing we're talking about an AOW and not an SBS
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And, while fully legal to own in MN, since the MN PTC is a permit to carry a pistol only and not all firearms, my interpretation would be that it does not include AOWs since they are regulated differently than a normal title 1 pistol.
Link Posted: 8/16/2020 7:43:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 8/16/2020 8:46:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 8/19/2020 8:11:51 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
While this is in direct disagreement with the plain and understandable letter of the law, this is the position of the BCA and most LE agencies as well.
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Good thing we're talking about an AOW and not an SBS


And, while fully legal to own in MN, since the MN PTC is a permit to carry a pistol only and not all firearms, my interpretation would be that it does not include AOWs since they are regulated differently than a normal title 1 pistol.


I'd be inclined to agree.
While this is in direct disagreement with the plain and understandable letter of the law, this is the position of the BCA and most LE agencies as well.


And that is kind of the same conclusion I was coming to; most likely legal to own, but not to CCW. It is an AOW federally, but MN does not have a specific AOW definition, meaning that this weapon could be classified multiple ways. And I'm not about to be the test case.

Just got back today; ended up taking the AR pistol instead. I forgot how beautiful north central MN can be (not that southern MN is bad...)
Link Posted: 8/19/2020 8:38:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 8/22/2020 5:11:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Aow’s are not shotguns as previously stated
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