UPDATES IN BLUE

Weather update: 10 day forecast

You know what this means folks.  Dress appropriatly!

If you don't want to train in inclement weather, now is the time to back out, NOT at LCR!

Alright, here is the warning order for those who wish to attend the class on saturday of the upcomming LCR.

All those who wish to attend, please sound off in the thread so we can get an accurate head count.  If you know of people who will be there and want to be a part, but who do not post, please sound off for them.

Schedule:

At 10am, the safety briefing will begin, followed by a quick rundown of the class sylabus.

At 11am, zero verification will take place.

At noon we shut down for an hour.

Starting at 1pm, the main class and live fire portion will begin.  It should last between 4 and 5 hours, but may continue longer if the attendees so choose.

Equipment necessary:

1 open mind.

Eye and ear protection.

A semiautomatic rifle with the capability to hold up to 20 rounds in the magazine, or reputable manufacture.  AR's are prefered, but AK's, M1a's, XCR's, etc, etc, etc, are welcome if that is what is avalible..

A semiautomatic pistol or reputable manufacture. Glocks, HK's, 1911's, Sigs, etc.

4 magazines for the rifle.

3 magazines for the pistol.

At least 250 rounds of quality rifle ammunition

At least 150 rounds of quality pistol ammunition.

A good sling for the rifle.

A holster for the pistol that can be secured. Concealment holsters not advised.

Some means of competently carrying spare magazines for both the rifle and the pistol. No open topped magazine pouches.  Gear can be anything from a full tactical battle vest with enough MOLLE gear hanging off of it to sink a ship, or a simple belt with a surplus M16 magazine pouch and a dual pistol magazine pouch, and anything in between.  Competition gear is not advisable as this is for fighting skills, not gaming.

Hydration.  Water is good.

Knee pads

Appropriate clothing for the weather that you don't mind getting dirty. LONG SLEEVED SHIRTS ENCOURAGED

A hat. Sunburns suck.


Class equipment:

The following items must be brought by students in the class. It's sort of like a potluck. I will list the items and people who can bring an item or two, speak up and we'll get the list set of who is bringing what.  I'd love to be able to just have it all there, but finances dictate otherwise.

Target stand base'.  Last time the wind blew down the ad-hoc stands we had, never again.  T sections of PVC pipe will work and are relitivly cheap. Must be able to hold 1"x1/4" wood slats.

1"x1/4"x5' slats of wood to staple cardboard to for targets.

19"x36" pieces of cardboard.  USPSA/IPSC cardboard targets will work but tend to be spendy, hence, scrap cardboard of the dimensions listed will do fine.

3" orange dot stickers. at least 4 per student.

Silhouette targets. at least two per student.

Shot timer if someone can obtain one.



Who's bringing what

Jasonfin
6 silhouette targets
20 3 inch orange stickers
30 2 inch orange stickers


Ryo
scrap cardboard
staple gun
3" green Shoot N C stickers


Aloxite
16 target stands (32 base parts)


NorthWestAR
cardbord


Arctangent
cardboard
B-27 targets

Hoploboy (Chris the FA guy)


BadassWeakling
72 orange stickers

Berzerker77 (possible)


JoshAR
1"x1 1/4"x5' wood slats
24 3" stickers

g_ar1588
Staple gun

Enumclaw87
Wood slats and cardboard


PCR-00
Beer
Chair
jokes


Advisable equipment:

A shemagh or something similar is also advisable to prevent spent brass from going down the neck of your shirt.  A thoroughly unenjoyable experience.

Elbow pads.

Gloves Preferably a type that allows a fair amount of dexterity so you won't be fumbling with magazines and the like.  Military pilots gloves, CVC gloves, etc.

An extra rifle and pistol should an unrepairable failure take place.  Two is one, one is none.


The above list will probably be modified in short order.

Insofar as scheduling goes, I am going to hold to it this time.  I will be ready at 10am for the initial safety brief and class syllabus Either come prepared, and on time, or please don't say that you will.  There will be no more asking around for who wants to attend.  Either be there or don't.

If a person does not make the safety brief, they will not attend the rest of the class.

All attendees are required to be at the zero confirmation, even if it is only to fire 5 rounds and say it's good.  Honestly, that's the preferable way to do it as it is much better to have weapons sighted in prior to even showing up as a full zero process with many people eats a lot of time.

I will provide Issue M-16A2 sight in targets, which I know will not necessarily jive with other weapons platforms, they should still get the job done.  The zero will be done at 25Meters, so if you have a nonstandard (as I do) zero such as the 50 yard BZO, be sure to know what your hold over is going to be so you are prepared for it. (a 50 yard BZO will have the POI approx 1.5" low at 25 meters)

I hate to be harsh about it this time, but after the last performance, i'm not willing to pussyfoot around with it this time.  I want to hold a fun, informative class, and have all the participants come away with somthing good.  Non-performers will only hold the class back.  And by non-performers, I don't mean people who take time to get skills perfected and such, I mean people who say they will be there, or say they will bring things and then don't show or arrive with what they say. This also means people who show up with out some of the required equipment and try to talk me into letting them use somthing that I do not advise using.  Please come properly prepared or don't take the class.

Insofar as that goes, I have some surplus M16 magazine pouches that I can loan to people who don't feel comfortable dropping a lot of cash into some form of tactical gear at this time.  They will probably be slightly uncomfortable, but they will work.

DallasfromDallas is exempt from having to bring any target material because of his willingness and effort that he put out for the rest of the no-shows at the last LCR.

Final thoughts (for the moment).  

If you want to attend, please accept that I will be my usual boisterous, loud, obnoxious self.  If you don't like vulgarity, don't attend.  If you have a thin skin, don't attend. I do not get my jollies by insulting people and being an ass to them, but I am very blunt about getting my points across.

This extends to the assistant instructors as well. I will be having a few others in the class act as assistant instructors and safety observers to ensure that nobody leaves with extra holes.  If you do somthing stupid and get called on it, accept it and drive on.   Being yelled at dosn't mean we hate your guts, it just means that you need to be more aware.

Every student is encouraged to go at the speed they feel comfortable doing so in a safe manner.  I will of course be pushing your limits as that is the best way to expand your capabilities, but if you honestly do not feel you can do somthing as fast as other students, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. Just get your shots downrange as fast as you safely can and focus on learning, not on being better then, or faster then the guy next to you.

This class will have people in it with varrying degrees of experience. The class is designed for the beginning rifleman though, so the more experienced ones had better be prepared to be bored at times, whereas I also like to push things to new levels, so the newbs to this sort of thing need to be prepared for doing things then have never done before and for being pushed to excell at the exercises being taught.

Lastly, Safety.

If there is a MAJOR safety violation, I will kick your ass out of the class so fast your head will spin. If I observe a loaded gun sweeping the entire line, be prepared for me to tackle your dumb ass and disarm you in a very unpleasant manner.  

Minor safety issues will be delt with accordingly, but if they keep happening, the offending person will be made to leave the class.

First and foremost, the goal is to have a class that is fun and safe where people learn as much as they can.  Realizing that we can't really have fun unless we're being safe, SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT.

Now that i've left you all probably thinking i'm a complete asshole (as if you didn't think that already), sound off and let the festivities begin!

And no, there is no fee for the class, but I won't refuse donations made in ammo....

ATTENDEES:

Jasonfin
Ryo
Aloxite
NorthWestAR
Arctangent
Hoploboy (Chris the FA guy)
BadassWeakling
Berzerker77
JoshAR
g_ar1588
OptionX3
Enumclaw87



ASST. RO/TA(range officer/Training assistant)

Warhammer
Grabmywrist
Dropship

you know I'm in.

At this point I have 6 silhouette targets and a shit load or orange sticker laying around.

I’ll see what else I can scrounge up.


For clarification… you prefer 20 round max mags???

up to 20 rounds in the magazine,

Quoted: you know I'm in. At this point I have 6 silhouette targets and a shit load or orange sticker laying around. I’ll see what else I can scrounge up. For clarification… you prefer 20 round max mags??? up to 20 rounds in the magazine,

The class calls for some longer strings of fire up to 20 rounds so somebody with a rifle that only has 10 round magazines will find some parts more difficult.

Hey I'll go for training.  Sounds interesting and fun.
I have some scrap cardboard I can bring in, not a lot, but I have some.
All other stuff I don't have, but if short, I can see if I can buy.

I appreciate  your willingness to do this again and am surprised you are…

What is the minimum amount of participants you want?

Quoted: I appreciate  your willingness to do this again and am surprised you are… What is the minimum amount of participants you want?

4 to 6.

I can do small classes as well as larger, but they have to be even numbers.

Quoted: Quoted: I appreciate  your willingness to do this again and am surprised you are… What is the minimum amount of participants you want? 4 to 6. I can do small classes as well as larger, but they have to be even numbers.

Yup, ya can't do the hokeypokey properly without a partner!

I'm in.  

I'll see about building some bases for targets and getting some 1/4" x 1" x 5' slats ripped.
Got a picture of the set up?
I'm trying to imagine it.
I'm guessing the slats are vertical, two per base, and spaced 19" apart so the 19" wide cardboard fits.

Quoted: I'm in.   I'll see about building some bases for targets and getting some 1/4" x 1" x 5' slats ripped. Got a picture of the set up? I'm trying to imagine it. I'm guessing the slats are vertical, two per base, and spaced 19" apart so the 19" wide cardboard fits.

I liked the set up that old_painless uses (the below pic is his from another thread).

I don't think the base needs to be quite as long from front to back as his are, nor do I think the PVC piping needs to be as tall either.

Thanks for contributing!

Roger that.

I was thinking I'd make something up with 2x4 scraps.

But that seems pretty elegant and easy to transport.

So, I'll just dig out my pvc cutters and take em with me to the plumbing store so I can buck the pipe into short enough lengths to fit in my car.

I will see what I can get from work as far as the cardbord.

Quoted: I will see what I can get from work as far as the cardbord.

Does this mean that you'll be in the class as well?

Quoted: 4 to 6. I can do small classes as well as larger, but they have to be even numbers.

I think it would be fun and I should have enough ammo.

If you need to even out the class I'm game. Just think of me as a fill in if needed.

Now, who's going to guid me in on staurday??

Quoted: Quoted: 4 to 6. I can do small classes as well as larger, but they have to be even numbers. I think it would be fun and I should have enough ammo. If you need to even out the class I'm game. Just think of me as a fill in if needed. Now, who's going to guid me in on staurday??

Bobbity if it does not snow!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4 to 6. I can do small classes as well as larger, but they have to be even numbers. I think it would be fun and I should have enough ammo. If you need to even out the class I'm game. Just think of me as a fill in if needed. Now, who's going to guid me in on staurday?? Bobbity if it does not snow!

 Pssst..hey, Dino!FUCKYOO!!!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4 to 6. I can do small classes as well as larger, but they have to be even numbers. I think it would be fun and I should have enough ammo. If you need to even out the class I'm game. Just think of me as a fill in if needed. Now, who's going to guid me in on staurday?? Bobbity if it does not snow!  Pssst..hey, Dino!FUCKYOO!!!

If you post in this thread, it means you're going to be in the class!!!!

Are we going to have a replay of the movie "Grumpy old men" in my class at LCR??????

Yea!!!! Dino is required to come to LCR now!!!  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4 to 6. I can do small classes as well as larger, but they have to be even numbers. I think it would be fun and I should have enough ammo. If you need to even out the class I'm game. Just think of me as a fill in if needed. Now, who's going to guid me in on staurday?? Bobbity if it does not snow!  Pssst..hey, Dino!FUCKYOO!!! If you post in this thread, it means you're going to be in the class!!!! Are we going to have a replay of the movie "Grumpy old men" in my class at LCR??????

Bull pucky, that wasn't stated in the first post.

Anyway the Motorhome ain't up for the trip anyway.

Quoted: Bull pucky, that wasn't stated in the first post. Anyway the Motorhome ain't up for the trip anyway.

Quoted: All those who wish to attend, please sound off in the thread

You were saying?

This thread is for those who are attending the class to post in that they are going to be at the LCR and the class....

Can ye at least make it on saturday?....

So can a 7.62-type AR come to play?

Quoted: So can a 7.62-type AR come to play?

Yup, if that's what ya got!

Okay, count me in.
I'll make sure and bring a bottle of tylenol and Aleve along with me...

Quoted: Okay, count me in. I'll make sure and bring a bottle of tylenol and Aleve along with me...

Cool beans!

Bringing any target materials?

How many target stands are going to be needed?
I can design/make just about anything.
I like the pvc tubing target stand...
Is the carboard target the 19"x 36" dimensions mentioned earlier in the thread?
Looks like I can lay my hands on a bunch of cardboard too.
I live pretty close to the Norpoint Indoor Shooting range just south of Arlington, WA  and I can get B-27 targets there, among other things...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4 to 6. I can do small classes as well as larger, but they have to be even numbers. I think it would be fun and I should have enough ammo. If you need to even out the class I'm game. Just think of me as a fill in if needed. Now, who's going to guid me in on staurday?? Bobbity if it does not snow!  Pssst..hey, Dino!FUCKYOO!!! If you post in this thread, it means you're going to be in the class!!!! Are we going to have a replay of the movie "Grumpy old men" in my class at LCR?????? Bull pucky, that wasn't stated in the first post. Anyway the Motorhome ain't up for the trip anyway.

Maybe we should change up the training class and do an extraction mission on Dino....






Paging Damon...Pagin Damon....(or whatever his name is)

The boy and I have geared up. We can either use a regular AR and 9mm AR or go with the family favorite AK's for mag compatability. I hate to be arfcom unfriendly, but the Ruskie platform is our SHTF 1st choice We do promise to behave, but I can't speak for Gatorette Teenage girls are a bit unpredictable!

Quoted: Quoted: All those who wish to attend, please sound off in the thread You were saying? This thread is for those who are attending the class to post in that they are going to be at the LCR and the class.... Can ye at least make it on saturday?....

Crap, Offer to help and get suckerd into playing.
Guess I better load up some more ammo.

OH! If the wife gives me that look I'm going to point her in your direction Grumpy

I will do my damndest to make it with all the requisites. I just have to get the day off work.

Question though. You said no open top mag pouches. I have the TT 3 mag pouches on my MAV. They DO have cover flaps but is there a problem with tucking those in and letting the bungee cord hold the mags in place? It seems rather secure.

Quoted: How many target stands are going to be needed? I can design/make just about anything. I like the pvc tubing target stand... Is the carboard target the 19"x 36" dimensions mentioned earlier in the thread? Looks like I can lay my hands on a bunch of cardboard too. I live pretty close to the Norpoint Indoor Shooting range just south of Arlington, WA  and I can get B-27 targets there, among other things...

We'll need as many target stands as we have attendees.  I Am trying to get a solid headcount so that we will know the exact number needed.  Which means we'll probably have to make more as things update the closer we get to LCR.

19"x36" cardboard would be perfect.

B27's would be fantastic as well!

And thank you very much for helping with the target materials along with the others.  This sort of participation is what will make this class great.




and i'm still taking ammo donations....

Quoted: The boy and I have geared up. We can either use a regular AR and 9mm AR or go with the family favorite AK's for mag compatability. I hate to be arfcom unfriendly, but the Ruskie platform is our SHTF 1st choice We do promise to behave, but I can't speak for Gatorette Teenage girls are a bit unpredictable!

AK's, 9mm AR's, it's all welcome!  We're a diverse bunch and we will not discriminate against other guns!

So I'll put down Huge_gator, little_gator, and will Gatorette be attending the class as well or will she just be there to kick my ass when I make dirty jokes?

Quoted: Crap, Offer to help and get suckerd into playing. Guess I better load up some more ammo. OH! If the wife gives me that look I'm going to point her in your direction Grumpy

Go ahead and send her my way.  I'm tough, I can take it.

[GrumpyM4] (goes and hides behind AutomaticJoy) That mean lady is trying to hurt me!!! [/GrumpyM4]

Quoted: I will do my damndest to make it with all the requisites. I just have to get the day off work. Question though. You said no open top mag pouches. I have the TT 3 mag pouches on my MAV. They DO have cover flaps but is there a problem with tucking those in and letting the bungee cord hold the mags in place? It seems rather secure.

I prefer that the flaps be left in place, as I subscribe to the ideals of "train like you fight, fight like you train", and in a non perfect world, you'll keep your gear as secure as possible to prevent loosing mags while doing other things and that you won't know when bad stuff is going to happen and have your gear set for speed gunning all the time.

It's good to practice opening your gear to get mags and such out....

And on the other hand, if you were to attend a more advanced class ( I have one set up), it will deal more with dynamic fighting skills and even some CQB and leaving your flaps open is ok because of the simple fact that if you KNOW you're going into a building full of badguys, you will do everything you can to make your job easier and faster.  But that's for another time and this time we'll focus on the basics.

Please do your best to get the time from work. I look forward to having you in the class!

And for all you fine, generous folks who are bringing target materials, a few extras are always good as thing sometimes accidentally get shot, broken, etc.

Thanks again!

At this point I have six silhouette targets and I will pick up some more. I also have 20 3 inch orange stickers and though they aren’t on the list I also have 30 2 inch orange ones too.

Quoted: At this point I have six silhouette targets and I will pick up some more. I also have 20 3 inch orange stickers and though they aren’t on the list I also have 30 2 inch orange ones too.

The orange stickers of both sizes will be a big help!

I will be attending.

Any info on PVC stands, how to make them and what they are supposed to look like?

Quoted: I will be attending. Any info on PVC stands, how to make them and what they are supposed to look like?

ETA: damn double taps

Quoted: I will be attending. Any info on PVC stands, how to make them and what they are supposed to look like?

see pic of page 1....

Quoted: Quoted: The boy and I have geared up. We can either use a regular AR and 9mm AR or go with the family favorite AK's for mag compatability. I hate to be arfcom unfriendly, but the Ruskie platform is our SHTF 1st choice We do promise to behave, but I can't speak for Gatorette Teenage girls are a bit unpredictable! AK's, 9mm AR's, it's all welcome!  We're a diverse bunch and we will not discriminate against other guns! So I'll put down Huge_gator, little_gator, and will Gatorette be attending the class as well or will she just be there to kick my ass when I make dirty jokes?

Gatorette will be there to add sarcastic coments and provide typical eye-rolling at our antics and not shooting

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The boy and I have geared up. We can either use a regular AR and 9mm AR or go with the family favorite AK's for mag compatability. I hate to be arfcom unfriendly, but the Ruskie platform is our SHTF 1st choice We do promise to behave, but I can't speak for Gatorette Teenage girls are a bit unpredictable! AK's, 9mm AR's, it's all welcome!  We're a diverse bunch and we will not discriminate against other guns! So I'll put down Huge_gator, little_gator, and will Gatorette be attending the class as well or will she just be there to kick my ass when I make dirty jokes? Gatorette will be there to add sarcastic coments and provide typical eye-rolling at our antics and not shooting

Nice!!!

How old?  She's not too young to start teaching this good stuff is she?  Hell, give her the 9mm AR and lets make her the breach man on CQB room clearing drills.....

She's 14 and knows everything The boy is 12 but has many thousands of rounds down the tube. Gatorette's experience is far less and she's shown no interest in formal training

Quoted: She's 14 and knows everything The boy is 12 but has many thousands of rounds down the tube. Gatorette's experience is far less and she's shown no interest in formal training

Do you think she'd be more interested if she had other females to train with?  As time goes by, we'll be getting a couple of female types more involved and in my experience, womenz tend to be more interested such things so long as there are other womenz involved.

Think it's worth a shot?

Quoted: Quoted: She's 14 and knows everything The boy is 12 but has many thousands of rounds down the tube. Gatorette's experience is far less and she's shown no interest in formal training Do you think she'd be more interested if she had other females to train with?  As time goes by, we'll be getting a couple of female types more involved and in my experience, womenz tend to be more interested such things so long as there are other womenz involved. Think it's worth a shot?

It's worth a try

This maybe a stupid question but can you use a rimfire weapon? I don't have that much ammo in the 223/308.

Quoted: This maybe a stupid question but can you use a rimfire weapon? I don't have that much ammo in the 223/308.

This class is a basic rifleman class, focused around skills that help win a gunfight.  While they are covered, there will be less emphasis onthings like positions, breathing, and super accuracy.  It's about hitting minute of bad guy instead of hitting minute of angle.  We will work on things like controlled pairs, double taps, mag changes, malfunction drills,  etc, etc ,etc.

The only reason I bring up the above is because rimfires aren't notorious for haveing a simple manual of arms and can end up hindering the learning process at times instead of helping it.

With that said, if you have the proper gear and can keep up with a rimfire, you're more then welcome.....

Man.. you make the training sound more fun..  Can't wait.  

Quoted: Man.. you make the training sound more fun..  Can't wait.

That's the idea. Lets hope I can pull it off....

This weekend I went to the Puyallup gun show and didn't find what I needed...

So I went to visit Mama-San at exit 123 and bought a BDU Molle Vest with two M-16 pouches for $60!  Unfortunately, standard Molle-II mag pouches don't seem to work too well with fat PMAGs.

Also, it seems most of the guides leaving Saturday morning will not be leaving until after 9, I am a bit worried about being able to make the 10 AM safety session.

Edit:  Looks like Dinothewap will be at the P&R at 8 AM, so other people who are going for saturday only will probably want to follow him up as well.  

Grumpy put me down please. My only issue will be getting a guide set up, hoping I can hook up with the group at exit 77 round 9am.

Quoted: Grumpy put me down please. My only issue will be getting a guide set up, hoping I can hook up with the group at exit 77 round 9am.

Done.

I hope you can make it as well.

Quoted: This weekend I went to the Puyallup gun show and didn't find what I needed... So I went to visit Mama-San at exit 123 and bought a BDU Molle Vest with two M-16 pouches for $60!  Unfortunately, standard Molle-II mag pouches don't seem to work too well with fat PMAGs. Also, it seems most of the guides leaving Saturday morning will not be leaving until after 9, I am a bit worried about being able to make the 10 AM safety session. Edit:  Looks like Dinothewap will be at the P&R at 8 AM, so other people who are going for saturday only will probably want to follow him up as well.

Excellent job on finding the molle vest. It should work perfectly except for your Pmag issue.  I have some extra Molle pouches that fit Pmags just fine that I can loan out for the class that i'll bring.

Good heads up on the porno park 'n rob too!