ARS Title 13 Chapter 31 states that Open Carry means that the holster must be wholy or partially visible.
Packing.org suggests that at least 2" of the hoslter be visible but what exactly is leagal?

Can I wear a pistol in a IWB hoslter and tuck my shirt in. A very small portion of the holster is visible, but the the grip on the USP is pretty honkin' large, and there is no way you could miss that if you were behind me or standing to my right. Also, does it matter that they wouldn't be able to see it from the front.

Either way, I'm going to evetuall invest in a good OWB holster to be on the safe side, but I was just wondering.

~Scott

I wouldn't mess around like that if you don't have a CWP. Most judges will err on the side of libralism and slam your pe-pe in the dirt.

Even if you do have a CWP, if you are trying to conceal it, then conceal it. No one should be able to tell. IMHO

Quoted: ARS Title 13 Chapter 31 states that Open Carry means that the holster must be wholy or partially visible. Packing.org suggests that at least 2" of the hoslter be visible but what exactly is leagal? Can I wear a pistol in a IWB hoslter and tuck my shirt in. A very small portion of the holster is visible, but the the grip on the USP is pretty honkin' large, and there is no way you could miss that if you were behind me or standing to my right. Also, does it matter that they wouldn't be able to see it from the front. Either way, I'm going to evetuall invest in a good OWB holster to be on the safe side, but I was just wondering. ~Scott

Its already been tried and doesnt work.

That's what I thought. Just wanted to hear from someone else though. Thanks for the input.

~Scott

Mesa PD had a slow a night when approx 12 officers and 7 cars showed up outside Bahama Buck's for me.  I was 18 and carrying a kimber in an IWB holster with shirt tucked in.

Some dipshit rookie tried blind siding me and grabbing my gun.  I knocked his hand to the side, got up from the booth, then was about a blink of an eye from drawing.  Every single cop had a radio or flashlight in their hand.  Douchebags.

Luckily, a supervisor was there and yelled at his anxious boys and apologized to me.

The funniest part was with the RPK and several drums in the truck.  But thats another story...

Quoted: Mesa PD had a slow a night when approx 12 officers and 7 cars showed up outside Bahama Buck's for me.  I was 18 and carrying a kimber in an IWB holster with shirt tucked in. Some dipshit rookie tried blind siding me and grabbing my gun.  I knocked his hand to the side, got up from the booth, then was about a blink of an eye from drawing.  Every single cop had a radio or flashlight in their hand.  Douchebags. Luckily, a supervisor was there and yelled at his anxious boys and apologized to me. The funniest part was with the RPK and several drums in the truck.  But thats another story...

18 and carring a hand gun? iothought you had to be 21 for hand guns and 18 for rifles? help me out on this one,,,,

Quoted: You cannot buy a handgun from an FFL until 21. In AZ you can receive one as a gift or buy one private sale at 18. Open carry is legal at 18 in AZ.

I wish a few more goddamn people knew that.  The guy I bought it from knew it, thank god.  I'm 19 and legally own a Sig in the state of AZ.  I just like saying that.

The penalty for CCW with out a permit is so minor that I've considered not even renewing my permit next time.  

Shit.  I've carried for over 10 years, 5 with a permit, and have never had to present my permit to anyone except for when buying a gun.

Doesn't Bahama Bucks serve alcohol?  I am pretty sure they do - So you were breaking the law.

Quoted: The penalty for CCW with out a permit is so minor that I've considered not even renewing my permit next time.

Really? What's the charge?

~Scott

Quoted: Doesn't Bahama Bucks serve alcohol?  I am pretty sure they do - So you were breaking the law.

I was at bahama bucks youre thinking of bahama breeze

Amazing what a quick Google does.

Quoted: Quoted: The penalty for CCW with out a permit is so minor that I've considered not even renewing my permit next time.   Really? What's the charge? ~Scott

$50 misdemeaner or some such nonsense.  The legislature resently passed a law minimizing the penalty for unpermitted CCW.

Quoted: Doesn't Bahama Bucks serve alcohol?  I am pretty sure they do - So you were breaking the law.

So you leave your weapon in the car/parking lot if you go into an establishment that serves Alcohol?  

At least your within the law when some chud steals your pistol from your vehicle and kills someone else, right? GREAT!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The penalty for CCW with out a permit is so minor that I've considered not even renewing my permit next time.   Really? What's the charge? ~Scott $50 misdemeaner or some such nonsense.  The legislature resently passed a law minimizing the penalty for unpermitted CCW.

The current maximum penalty for carrying concealed without a permit is six months in jail and a $2500 fine. See ARS 13-3102, Subsection J.

There was a law passed last session (HB2325) that provided for a defense in court for the charge of failing to carry a valid permit with you, provided you can show the judge a valid permit that was in effect at the time you were charged. That is by no means the same thing as allowing a person to carry concealed without having a valid permit at all. That was, and remains, a Class 1 misdemeanor, and will very likely land you in jail if you are caught.

We will be attempting to pass a bill this coming session that will allow any law-abiding citizen to carry concealed without a permit, while still leaving the permit system in place for those who want one, along the lines of AK. We are attempting to nail down a sponsor or three at this point. If you believe in your right to carry, feel free to get behiind it when the time comes.

If we can get this done, then there will not be any fine at all for CCW, provided you are not committing any actual crime while doing so. Wouldn't that be novel?

Quoted: We will be attempting to pass a bill this coming session that will allow any law-abiding citizen to carry concealed without a permit, while still leaving the permit system in place for those who want one, along the lines of AK. We are attempting to nail down a sponsor or three at this point. If you believe in your right to carry, feel free to get behiind it when the time comes. If we can get this done, then there will not be any fine at all for CCW, provided you are not committing any actual crime while doing so. Wouldn't that be novel?

Personally, I would much rather see a law that would allow me to carry into a denny's or any other place that serves alky.  Personally I'd like to see it setup that you'd be able to cary into any establishment such as Fox n Hound, as long as you do not consume then your within your right to cary. Although I'd settle for a "denny's" cary or a 51% law (where 51% of the businesses incom has to come from something other then selling beverages).



I don't care about the permit thing or not - it's worth the money to me, even just to have a smoother gun purchase.

Quoted: Personally, I would much rather see a law that would allow me to carry into a denny's or any other place that serves alky.  Personally I'd like to see it setup that you'd be able to cary into any establishment such as Fox n Hound, as long as you do not consume then your within your right to cary. Although I'd settle for a "denny's" cary or a 51% law (where 51% of the businesses incom has to come from something other then selling beverages).

Do you leave your gun in the car if you go to FOX and Hound or Denny's???

I sure as shit don't.  Concealment is my friend.

Quoted: Do you leave your gun in the car if you go to FOX and Hound or Denny's??? I sure as shit don't.  Concealment is my friend.

I do have an in-car-gunsafe for a reason


You might be able to afford it, but I rather not lose my gun privlages for the rest of my life.... at 24, I have many years of trigger time left.

Dig it!  But wouldn't you feel foolish if the Waitress's nutjob jealous ex boyfriend came in and did a shooting spree while your gun was locked in the car?

The way I look at it is as long as nobody shoots up the joint, no one will ever be the wiser.

Quoted: Dig it!  But wouldn't you feel foolish if the Waitress's nutjob jealous ex boyfriend came in and did a shooting spree while your gun was locked in the car? The way I look at it is as long as nobody shoots up the joint, no one will ever be the wiser.

Ehh, make note of where the exits are, don't give the guy a reason to make you a target.


Otherwise, a good o'll knife could do you some good if you know how to use it.

Quoted: Otherwise, a good o'll knife could do you some good if you know how to use it. spyderco.com/pix/products/med/C12G_M.jpg

Christ that knife looks scary! Is that what you carry?

I got me one of these, but it's pretty well used:
http://www.knivesplus.com/media/SG-T98S.jpg

~Scott

--------------------------------
"You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." ~Tpr. M. Padgett

Quoted:Ehh, make note of where the exits are, don't give the guy a reason to make you a target.

Indeed!  I'm not out to be a super hero.  But as they say.... Better to have and not need....

Quoted: Quoted: Otherwise, a good o'll knife could do you some good if you know how to use it. spyderco.com/pix/products/med/C12G_M.jpg Christ that knife looks scary! Is that what you carry? I got me one of these, but it's pretty well used: www.knivesplus.com/media/SG-T98S.jpg ~Scott -------------------------------- "You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." ~Tpr. M. Padgett

Not right now, the one I had I gave to a girl i was dateing a few years ago.... she had a night class and had to walk acoss campus -- you wern't allowed to CCW (she had her permit)..... but the knife was legal.


After we broke up,I wasn't going to ask for it back - even if it's a $200 knife (I didn't pay that).

I plan on getting another one... it is never ment to be used as anything but a self defense knife, it's designed that once it hooks into flesh it doesn't come out easily..... that tip is fucking razor sharp.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Otherwise, a good o'll knife could do you some good if you know how to use it. spyderco.com/pix/products/med/C12G_M.jpg Christ that knife looks scary! Is that what you carry? I got me one of these, but it's pretty well used: www.knivesplus.com/media/SG-T98S.jpg ~Scott -------------------------------- "You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." ~Tpr. M. Padgett Not right now, the one I had I gave to a girl i was dateing a few years ago.... she had a night class and had to walk acoss campus -- you wern't allowed to CCW (she had her permit)..... but the knife was legal. After we broke up,I wasn't going to ask for it back - even if it's a $200 knife (I didn't pay that). I plan on getting another one... it is never ment to be used as anything but a self defense knife, it's designed that once it hooks into flesh it doesn't come out easily..... that tip is fucking razor sharp.

Whats the details on the knife?  Looks kickass although I would have trouble spending that much on a knife

Quoted: Quoted: 18 and carring a hand gun? iothought you had to be 21 for hand guns and 18 for rifles? help me out on this one,,,, You cannot buy a handgun from an FFL until 21. In AZ you can receive one as a gift or buy one private sale at 18. Open carry is legal at 18 in AZ.

Do you think you could provide me with a link to where it says I can do that?  I'm not doubting you, it's just that I turn 18 Saturday and I would LOVE to be able to carry my S&W M10-6 open if possible.  It has always been explained to me that you need to be 21 to open carry a pistol.

Quoted: Whats the details on the knife?  Looks kickass although I would have trouble spending that much on a knife

It's a Spyderco Civilian

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 18 and carring a hand gun? iothought you had to be 21 for hand guns and 18 for rifles? help me out on this one,,,, You cannot buy a handgun from an FFL until 21. In AZ you can receive one as a gift or buy one private sale at 18. Open carry is legal at 18 in AZ. Do you think you could provide me with a link to where it says I can do that?  I'm not doubting you, it's just that I turn 18 Saturday and I would LOVE to be able to carry my S&W M10-6 open if possible.  It has always been explained to me that you need to be 21 to open carry a pistol.

I included some other info I thought you may appreciate, but what the folowing says in plain english is:
At the age of 18 you can possess and visibly carry any holstered legal firearm while at any place not prohibited under the CCW law.

You can possess and carry firearms (long guns and pistols) apon reaching the age of 18 but since the ammo is sold by federaly licensed individuals you will have to convince them that what you need is meant for a rifle.

I used to tell them I needed 9mm for my Marlin Camp 9 carbine, which is where some of it went, or just carry my pistol into the gun shop.

Now the legalize version:
There is no minimum age to possess firearms under Arizona law, although federal law generally prohibits the possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by anyone under the age of 18. 18 U.S.C. § 922(x)(2), (3) and (5).

Federal law prohibits firearms dealers from selling or delivering a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18. 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1), (c)(1). Dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering other firearms (e.g., handguns) or ammunition for those firearms to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 21. Id.

Federal law provides less stringent age restrictions with respect to sales by unlicensed persons. Unlicensed persons generally may not sell, deliver or otherwise transfer a handgun or handgun ammunition to any person the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18. 18 U.S.C. § 922(x)(1), (3) and (5). Federal law provides no age limitations with respect to the sale of a long gun by an unlicensed person.

Arizona had prohibited minors (defined as any person under age 18; see Ariz. Rev. Stat. § 1-215 (22)) from possessing or carrying firearms, subject to specific exceptions, under former section 13-3111.  While section 13-3111 is still codified within the Arizona Revised Statutes, the entire statute was expressly declared unconstitutional in In Re Cesar R., 4 P.3d 980 (1999).

Arizona prohibits any person from selling or giving a firearm or ammunition or a toy pistol from which dangerous and explosive substances may be discharged to a minor without written consent of the minor’s parent or legal guardian.  Section § 13-3109(A).

The prohibition under section 13-3109(A) does not apply to the temporary transfer of firearms and ammunition by firearms safety instructors, hunter safety instructors, or competition coaches or their assistants, if the minor’s parent or guardian has given consent for the minor to participate in activities such as firearms or hunting safety courses, firearms competition, or training.  Section 13-3109(C).  With the consent of the minor’s parent or guardian, the temporary transfer of firearms and ammunition by an adult accompanying minors engaged in hunting or formal or informal target shooting activities shall be allowed for those purposes.  Id .


Private firearms transfers (i.e., transfers by non-firearms dealers) are not subject to a background check requirement in Arizona, although federal and state purchaser prohibitions still apply.  See the Arizona Background Checks section.

A person is criminally liable for the crime of “misconduct involving weapons” if he or she knowingly supplies, sells or gives possession or control of a firearm to another person, if the seller or transferor knows or has reason to know that the other person would use the firearm in the commission of any felony.  Ariz. Rev. Stat. § 13-3102(A)(14).  In addition, no person may knowingly sell or transfer a deadly weapon to a prohibited possessor (defined under § 13-3101(A)(6)).  Section 13-3102(A)(5).

Arizona prohibits any person from selling or giving a firearm or ammunition or a toy pistol from which dangerous and explosive substances may be discharged to a minor (defined as a person under age 18; see § 1-215(22)), without written consent of the minor’s parent or legal guardian.  Section 13-3109(A).

This prohibition does not apply to the temporary transfer of firearms and ammunition by firearms safety instructors, hunter safety instructors, competition coaches or their assistants, if the minor’s parent or guardian has given consent for the minor to participate in activities such as firearms or hunting safety courses, firearms competition, or training.  Section 13-3109(C).  With the consent of the minor’s parent or guardian, the temporary transfer of firearms and ammunition by an adult accompanying minors engaged in hunting or formal or informal target shooting activities shall be allowed for those purposes.  Id.



Registration:
No relevant statutes currently exist.



Waiting period:
No relevant statutes currently exist.

Quoted: Personally, I would much rather see a law that would allow me to carry into a denny's or any other place that serves alky.  Personally I'd like to see it setup that you'd be able to cary into any establishment such as Fox n Hound, as long as you do not consume then your within your right to cary. Although I'd settle for a "denny's" cary or a 51% law (where 51% of the businesses incom has to come from something other then selling beverages). I don't care about the permit thing or not - it's worth the money to me, even just to have a smoother gun purchase.

That's the point of leaving the permit system in place ... so those that want one can still get one, while those that believe that such permits are an unconstitutional restriction on their rights will no longer have to be bothered with it. Best of both worlds. So there really is no reason for you not to support this, is there? The antis get what they want because they work together. We could take a few lessons from them.

Re. restaraunt carry, that will be coming up again too. If the NRA doesn't push it, we will. Problem with that is, the way the licensing scheme is set up makes it practically impossible to know what kind of place you just walked into. One Applebees may be licensed as a restaraunt (Series 12, 40% of revenue must be derived from food sales), while the next one down the road may be licensed as a bar (Series 6, may derive any amount of revenue from liquor sales). Because of the relative scarcity of Series 6 licenses, they are much more valuable than Series 12's, and much harder to obtain. And because of that, any attempt to change the classification scheme will be met with heavy resistance from the "hospitality" industry. After all, would you want to see an extremely valuable commodity devalued just so some redneck yahooo can carry his shootin' iron into your place? (Yes, this is how they think of you) But they will always scream about how they want to keep "guns out of bars", even though they already know that "bars" are really not so clearly defined (under the law, Applebees might be a bar, something the papers never bother to mention). So in reality, the current situation is just fine with them. It lets them argue a point they can always win, because its a BS point to begin with, but very few people know that outside of them. But we are looking into ways to expose their fraud. We shall see if there is sufficent courage down on West Washington to actually do so. Personally, I have my doubts.

Quoted: Do you think you could provide me with a link to where it says I can do that? I'm not doubting you, it's just that I turn 18 Saturday and I would LOVE to be able to carry my S&W M10-6 open if possible. It has always been explained to me that you need to be 21 to open carry a pistol.

ARS 13-3111

This is probably about as close as you will come in AZ law. Sonofbp posted a pretty good synopsis of the relevant concepts.

P.S. Had to scrub the Sturgis trip. The guy I was going up with got in a really bad bike wreck, and is laid up at home now, so now I have no place to stay up there and no one to work for. So I'm going to go to NY with the family instead. So I guess I can make your B-Day party after all. Lucky you ...

Well then, it seems after Saturday Mr Smith will be accompanying me more often.  One thing, what would be the best way to carry a printed copy saying that I'm not breaking the law?  Should I print out a whole page such as 13-3111, or bits and pieces of other documents.  If so, which documents?

Quoted: Well then, it seems after Saturday Mr Smith will be accompanying me more often.  One thing, what would be the best way to carry a printed copy saying that I'm not breaking the law?  Should I print out a whole page such as 13-3111, or bits and pieces of other documents.  If so, which documents?

Proof lies in the hands of the accuser.

If they arrest you they can be found negligeable and therefore sued for false imprisonment.

I never had a problem at all with any encounters with local pd here in Phx, or in my case Deervalley.

Even though, I would suggest getting the AZ gun owners guide and keeping it in your car or backpack.

Just bookmark the pertinenrt page with a high end attorneys business card and highlight the appropriate portions.

That is what I did.

Oh yah, Turkesh, do you live near 19th ave and beardsley?
I was cruising down the 19th the other day and could have swore I saw ya in the front yard of a house across from that park.

Hah!  I actually live over on Cave Creek and Beardsley, but that's where my gun nut in training friend Tony lives.  Just to be sure, there was a white Mustang LX fast back in the drive way, right?

Quoted: Hah!  I actually live over on Cave Creek and Beardsley, but that's where my gun nut in training friend Tony lives.  Just to be sure, there was a white Mustang LX fast back in the drive way, right?

Cool,
Sounds like I will have to send ya a im/pm from here or the other site when I go shooting, since I live right in the area.
Too bad I can't make to the birthday shoot
I will be at the cool shoot though.

I saw 2 guys picking up a blown over recycling bin and thought one of them was you.
I didn't notice the mustang though, cause, you know, I was driving and stuff.

Yep, that was us.  I remember doing that right after the wind storm.  What time and day are you planning on heading to the cool shoot?  Me and Tony are going up Friday afternoon.

Well, picked up a leather Bianchi thumb-break for my K-frame today at Sportsman's for about $45 after tax.  It isnt the 30th yet, but I'm at my house so it's ok.  Planning on wearing it all day tomorrow, from 9am when I go to build my AK until Monday morning only taking it off to sleep.  Stayed up late last night memorizing all the ARS stuf that pertains to open carry, and a lady I work with is friends with some sort of DA who is going to get me some official looking stuff explaining the law.

... All this CCW Internet talk is amusing

... What if this? Where can I? What if that?
... WTF don't you just do what you must and STFU

Quoted: ... All this CCW Internet talk is amusing ... What if this? Where can I? What if that?

These are the idiots I get stuck in training with.

GRIND the Class to a hault by what iffing the fucking instructor to DEATH!

... WTF don't you just do what you must and STFU

Never try to inject common sense into this site!

Quoted: ... All this CCW Internet talk is amusing ... What if this? Where can I? What if that? [whitspace deleted] ... WTF don't you just do what you must and STFU

Well, a lot of people like to follow the law for some crazy reason. hinking.gif

Quoted: These are the idiots I get stuck in training with. GRIND the Class to a hault by what iffing the fucking instructor to DEATH!

Wouldn't you rather them do it in these forums than in the classroom?

Sounds like the forum nazi's have been indulging in libations again!!!!!!!!!!!

Quoted: Wouldn't you rather them do it in these forums than in the classroom?

They'll find something to what if in class.  They always do!  That's the beauty if what if.  There's no end to the possibilities.

I'll be heading up there as early friday as possible.
Thinking a caravan might be a good idea?

Quoted: Yep, that was us.  I remember doing that right after the wind storm.  What time and day are you planning on heading to the cool shoot?  Me and Tony are going up Friday afternoon.

Yeah, I was hoping to see who wanted to caravan but it seems most people are going early Friday.  I have work and my manager won't let me off, so the earliest I can leave is 5:30PM.

And to keep it on topic, I made my first open carry mistake.  Walked into Magnum's smoke shope(surprisingly a very high end place) and saw they sold liqour.  Thought I was OK since I figured they didn't have a license for on premesis consumption, but it didn't occur to me they might serve in the "lounge"(4 leather couches in a circle tucked into the corner).  They were cool about it, manager just asked me to put it in the car mainly because of the liberals who reserved the entire lounge area.  When I came back in I talked guns with the manager and salesperson for a while, manager carries a P99 and salesperson one of the new Taurus 1911's.

Quoted: Yeah, I was hoping to see who wanted to caravan but it seems most people are going early Friday.  I have work and my manager won't let me off, so the earliest I can leave is 5:30PM. And to keep it on topic, I made my first open carry mistake.  Walked into Magnum's smoke shope(surprisingly a very high end place) and saw they sold liqour.  Thought I was OK since I figured they didn't have a license for on premesis consumption, but it didn't occur to me they might serve in the "lounge"(4 leather couches in a circle tucked into the corner).  They were cool about it, manager just asked me to put it in the car mainly because of the liberals who reserved the entire lounge area.  When I came back in I talked guns with the manager and salesperson for a while, manager carries a P99 and salesperson one of the new Taurus 1911's.

Taurus is making 1911s?
Off to google I go....

I'll find out if my buddy is or isn't working that Friday and if he is we could definately caravan up there.

If he isn't working we'll be on the road by 9am.

Edit:
Gotta love Google images!