Wondering about legal response to deadly force in Ohio.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Wondering about legal response to deadly force in Ohio.

Posted: 12/14/2005 9:43:36 PM EDT

I'm looking at getting my CCW (if I'm ever home long enough to take the class) but after reading the attorney general's "guidelines" on justified use of deadly force, I'm wondering if it is worth it. It seems to me that the laws are written so that you can't use deadly force unless someone literally has a gun pointed at you and says they are going to kill you.

I don't want to sound like I am looking for an excuse to shoot someone or that I go out looking for trouble. If you knew me, you would know that I try to avoid conflict whenever possible just because I have better things to do then deal with stupid shit from stupid people. I just don't want to go to jail for defending myself. Anyone out there have any experiences that they don't mind sharing regarding the use of their CCW here in Ohio?

Posted: 12/15/2005 4:27:34 AM EDT

[#1]

"bookmarked" for info.

I turn 21 this coming spring, and plan on buying a Glock 17 (9mm) as my first handgun.
I probobly WON'T be getting my CCW permit...it seems that theres hardly ANY place I can take a CCW.

Basically I can walk down the street, or drive in my car w/ it. EVERY store I see has "no weapons" stickers posted. It seems like a waste if you can't take it everywhere at all times. I'm sure some will still CCW anyway, but the last thing I want is to be in a court room for using or carrying a CCW where it's not permitted.

Posted: 12/15/2005 5:51:28 AM EDT

[#2]

1) I read the guidelines, and decided that if it would come to me using deadly force, I would probably be OK. Long and short, your life must be in immenent danger. If, in fact, it was that clear of a danger, I would take my chances in court rather than be a victim.

2) Maybe it is a function of where you go or what you do, I take mine pretty much everywhere I go except my kids school. I rarely see a sign, and when I do, it is not some place I go. Usually I am at the mall, wal-mart, gas station or grocery. None of these are posted.

Dan

Posted: 12/15/2005 8:40:40 AM EDT

[#3]

Unless someplace has a statutory restriction on CCW (ie state law says you can't carry ther) like schools (what a crock), police stations (what a crock), airports (what a crock), restaurants that serve liquor (what a crock), their sign doesn't mean much. First, the charge is only a misdemeanor if found carrying in any place that voluntarily displays a no CCW sign. Second, someone would have to spot your gun.

AFAIC, unless it's a place where I will be frisked or searched, it goes.

Our law sucks, but there are efforts to fix most of what is wrong with it. In particular, we need to fix the BS car restrictions and we need to force employers to allow firearms in employees' cars regardless of whether or not the parking lot is on company property.

Employers who forbid weapons in cars parked on their property are VOIDING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE by essentially cancelling your CCW right from the time you leave home to the time you return. I don't care if they don't want them in their buildings, because they are not open to the public, but my car is not their property, even if it's parked on theirs.

Think about it.

Posted: 12/15/2005 8:11:43 PM EDT

[#4]

I think of it this way. It's better to have a legal means to defend yourself (CCW) if the time ever comes when you really need it and have a life and death situation. I hope to never to use it but it's comforting to know that it's there, "just in case". You must assume that if you use your gun, you will be arrested, charged and will need to explain yourself to a jury. If you don't get your CCW and you need it, you or a family member may end up dead or maimed for life because you didn't have a means of defense. Your choice.

Even though I am the type that has always tried to avoid trouble, I find myself going even further to keep a low profile. I try to never speed, obey all traffic laws and try to avoid areas that could increase my chance of problems (such as high crime areas).

I have also changed my habits and seldom go to places that's posted and if they have a no CCW sign, I try to find another place instead. I've given out several No CCW = No $$$$ Cards to places that I used to shop or eat in that is posted.

Posted: 12/16/2005 5:24:38 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Our law sucks, but there are efforts to fix most of what is wrong with it. In particular, we need to fix the BS car restrictions and we need to force employers to allow firearms in employees' cars regardless of whether or not the parking lot is on company property.

Employers who forbid weapons in cars parked on their property are VOIDING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE by essentially cancelling your CCW right from the time you leave home to the time you return. I don't care if they don't want them in their buildings, because they are not open to the public, but my car is not their property, even if it's parked on theirs.

Think about it.

Amen. What makes that really hard is if you want to try and change the employers policy, as you run the risk of losing your job. I've had this argument more than once with our HR department.

Posted: 12/16/2005 10:25:08 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Our law sucks, but there are efforts to fix most of what is wrong with it. In particular, we need to fix the BS car restrictions and we need to force employers to allow firearms in employees' cars regardless of whether or not the parking lot is on company property.

Employers who forbid weapons in cars parked on their property are VOIDING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE by essentially cancelling your CCW right from the time you leave home to the time you return. I don't care if they don't want them in their buildings, because they are not open to the public, but my car is not their property, even if it's parked on theirs.

Think about it.

Amen. What makes that really hard is if you want to try and change the employers policy, as you run the risk of losing your job. I've had this argument more than once with our HR department.

There's no reasoning with employers. They are either severely anti-gun at the top or are scared shitless of their insurance company.

The only way to deal with them is by force of law, like Oklahomans did.

Posted: 12/16/2005 7:19:34 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Unless someplace has a statutory restriction on CCW (ie state law says you can't carry ther) like schools (what a crock), police stations (what a crock), airports (what a crock), restaurants that serve liquor (what a crock), their sign doesn't mean much. First, the charge is only a misdemeanor if found carrying in any place that voluntarily displays a no CCW sign. Second, someone would have to spot your gun.

AFAIC, unless it's a place where I will be frisked or searched, it goes.

Our law sucks, but there are efforts to fix most of what is wrong with it. In particular, we need to fix the BS car restrictions and we need to force employers to allow firearms in employees' cars regardless of whether or not the parking lot is on company property.

Employers who forbid weapons in cars parked on their property are VOIDING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE by essentially cancelling your CCW right from the time you leave home to the time you return. I don't care if they don't want them in their buildings, because they are not open to the public, but my car is not their property, even if it's parked on theirs.

Think about it.

I was going to make that piont but you already said it for me. I would shure like some thick sculled supreme court justice to wrap his or her head around that concept. Unfortunately that will probably never happen.

Posted: 12/17/2005 7:17:37 AM EDT

[#8]

I'm unaware of any Ohio employers searching cars in their parking lots. As noted, reasoning with employers is a waste of time. Reasoning with shop owners gets better results as there's an economic penalty for turning customers away. I rarely see a "No CCW" sign in our region and don't spend a lot of time looking for them either. As noted concealed is concealed.

Fin Fur & Feathers in Ashland is interesting. They state that "concealed carry must remain concealed" or words to that effect.

I'm not sure what the question on use of deadly force is all about. You're not allowed to just shoot stupid or annoying people on the street if that's what you want to do. Nor am I sure why anyone would not get a CHL even if they never thought they'd carry (although I don't know why you wouldn't). The only hassle with an Ohio CHL is it flags your driver's license in the computer so Ohio State Highway Patrol policemen know you're likely to shoot them unless the're very careful. (That's sarcasm for those who missed it.) You do need to be a bit more careful about how you're transporting firearms but you should be doing that anyway.

There is no training required for an Ohio CHL. Unless you consider NRA Basic Pistol to be training.

If you can't sleep thru the class and still get 100% on the written "exam" you should not tell anyone about it. Likewise if you can't put 18 bullets into a paper plate at 7 yards (or is it 3 yards?).

-- Chuck

Posted: 12/17/2005 12:51:07 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Unless someplace has a statutory restriction on CCW (ie state law says you can't carry ther) like schools (what a crock), police stations (what a crock), airports (what a crock), restaurants that serve liquor (what a crock), their sign doesn't mean much. First, the charge is only a misdemeanor if found carrying in any place that voluntarily displays a no CCW sign. Second, someone would have to spot your gun.

AFAIC, unless it's a place where I will be frisked or searched, it goes.

Our law sucks, but there are efforts to fix most of what is wrong with it. In particular, we need to fix the BS car restrictions and we need to force employers to allow firearms in employees' cars regardless of whether or not the parking lot is on company property.

Employers who forbid weapons in cars parked on their property are VOIDING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE by essentially cancelling your CCW right from the time you leave home to the time you return. I don't care if they don't want them in their buildings, because they are not open to the public, but my car is not their property, even if it's parked on theirs.

Think about it.

I was going to make that piont but you already said it for me. I would shure like some thick sculled supreme court justice to wrap his or her head around that concept. Unfortunately that will probably never happen.

Forget the supreme court. The State Assembly is where it's at.

Posted: 12/17/2005 12:55:03 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I'm unaware of any Ohio employers searching cars in their parking lots. As noted, reasoning with employers is a waste of time. Reasoning with shop owners gets better results as there's an economic penalty for turning customers away. I rarely see a "No CCW" sign in our region and don't spend a lot of time looking for them either. As noted concealed is concealed.

Fin Fur & Feathers in Ashland is interesting. They state that "concealed carry must remain concealed" or words to that effect.

I'm not sure what the question on use of deadly force is all about. You're not allowed to just shoot stupid or annoying people on the street if that's what you want to do. Nor am I sure why anyone would not get a CHL even if they never thought they'd carry (although I don't know why you wouldn't). The only hassle with an Ohio CHL is it flags your driver's license in the computer so Ohio State Highway Patrol policemen know you're likely to shoot them unless the're very careful. (That's sarcasm for those who missed it.) You do need to be a bit more careful about how you're transporting firearms but you should be doing that anyway.

There is no training required for an Ohio CHL. Unless you consider NRA Basic Pistol to be training. If you can't sleep thru the class and still get 100% on the written "exam" you should not tell anyone about it. Likewise if you can't put 18 bullets into a paper plate at 7 yards (or is it 3 yards?).

-- Chuck

I see them EVRYWHERE around here, in sylvania, & in toledo. I don't remember seeing a business that DOESNT have the signs posted. Most places put them right on the front door.
Must just be this part of the state...YMMV.

Posted: 12/17/2005 1:32:54 PM EDT

[#11]

I have seen very few in the Dayton suburbs.
My employer has a "Noguns" policy.
But, when questioned about it, the response was "As long as we state you can't do it, that satisfies our lawyers. What we don't know won't hurt us"

But then, being asked by HR mgr and also owner to bring in my S&W 642 airweight .38 special and holster so they could see one for themselves and consider getting their own, kind of puts it in perspective, doesn't it?

Posted: 12/17/2005 3:31:51 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm unaware of any Ohio employers searching cars in their parking lots. As noted, reasoning with employers is a waste of time. Reasoning with shop owners gets better results as there's an economic penalty for turning customers away. I rarely see a "No CCW" sign in our region and don't spend a lot of time looking for them either. As noted concealed is concealed.

Fin Fur & Feathers in Ashland is interesting. They state that "concealed carry must remain concealed" or words to that effect.

I'm not sure what the question on use of deadly force is all about. You're not allowed to just shoot stupid or annoying people on the street if that's what you want to do. Nor am I sure why anyone would not get a CHL even if they never thought they'd carry (although I don't know why you wouldn't). The only hassle with an Ohio CHL is it flags your driver's license in the computer so Ohio State Highway Patrol policemen know you're likely to shoot them unless the're very careful. (That's sarcasm for those who missed it.) You do need to be a bit more careful about how you're transporting firearms but you should be doing that anyway.

There is no training required for an Ohio CHL. Unless you consider NRA Basic Pistol to be training. If you can't sleep thru the class and still get 100% on the written "exam" you should not tell anyone about it. Likewise if you can't put 18 bullets into a paper plate at 7 yards (or is it 3 yards?).

-- Chuck

I see them EVRYWHERE around here, in sylvania, & in toledo. I don't remember seeing a business that DOESNT have the signs posted. Most places put them right on the front door.
Must just be this part of the state...YMMV.

Ignore them. Your safety is more important than their "rights".

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Wondering about legal response to deadly force in Ohio.

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