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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:14:59 PM EDT
[#1]
I just copied from hk pro:
With 922r 6 parts need to be replaced from the list below as you are only allowed to have 10 foreign parts when creating a rifle. As it stands with the SP5 all parts are made in Germany as this is imported as a pistol. You can only use 10 of the following parts, 6 need to be replaced 1. Receiver 2. Barrel 3. Trunion 4. Bolt 5. Bolt Carrier 6. Cocking Handle 7. Trigger Box 8. Trigger 9. Hammer 10. Sear 11. Buttstock 12. Pistol Grip module 13. Forearm / Handguard 14. Magazine Housing 15. Magazine Follower 16. Magazine Floorplate On my Mp5 I did 6,8,9,10,11,13 |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:17:26 PM EDT
[#2]
How did I miss that post?? Appreciate the help brother.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:21:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did I miss that post?? Appreciate the help brother. No problem... good luck with the build! |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:46:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Honestly, would anyone even ask to verify let alone know what the hell they were looking at anyway?
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Posted: 1/3/2021 2:03:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly, would anyone even ask to verify let alone know what the hell they were looking at anyway? |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 7:10:05 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:12:21 PM EDT
[#7]
I was thinking of getting an SP5 and eventually going the SBR route. Excuse the ignorance but why the need to change parts / 922r compliance to go SBR on SP5?
8654 |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 12:31:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was thinking of getting an SP5 and eventually going the SBR route. Excuse the ignorance but why the need to change parts / 922r compliance to go SBR on SP5? 8654 Because you’re still making a rifle that has more than 10 imported parts. Making a SBR doesn’t exempt you from 922r. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 2:15:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because you’re still making a rifle that has more than 10 imported parts. Making a SBR doesn’t exempt you from 922r. I always thought it was just for import reasons, but I don't know, I never tried to SBR anything. What about those imported kits from long ago like the Aks andand stuff? Did they need American parts too? |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 10:26:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always thought it was just for import reasons, but I don't know, I never tried to SBR anything. What about those imported kits from long ago like the Aks andand stuff? Did they need American parts too? Plenty of places to read up on what 922r says, but the bottom line is that SBRing an imported gun doesn’t get an exemption from 922r. SP5s are imported as pistols, and as such are exempt from 922r and come in with 100% non-US parts. When you SBR a semiauto pistol, you are making it into a semiauto rifle, so 922r applies. Not sure what you mean by imported kits. If it’s parts kits, parts are parts, they aren’t complete guns. Like with any law, it is what it is, and how people chose to comply is on then. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 10:28:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because you’re still making a rifle that has more than 10 imported parts. Making a SBR doesn’t exempt you from 922r. So, you would buy it (SP5) being an imported pistol and then ‘making’ a rifle. Because now a rifle, you have to have the parts. Well, that sux. Maybe I just don’t do it or get a brace. Thanks, 8654 |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 11:33:31 AM EDT
[#12]
Wouldn’t a Franklin Binary cover 4 of the required 6? That sounds fairly easy.
Also, in my FAL days I remember there was some discussion on whether or not magazine parts would suffice as they are not on the weapon when removed. Unfortunately, I cannot remember what the outcome of that discussion was. Is that an issue? 8654 |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 11:45:44 AM EDT
[#13]
Serious question.
Who is going to enforce 922r? Is there someone that is versed in knowing what parts are german and what are US made and would take the thing apart and verify? |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 12:20:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Serious question. Who is going to enforce 922r? Is there someone that is versed in knowing what parts are german and what are US made and would take the thing apart and verify? I would bet serious cash no. Even if there were how are they supposed to tell what pieces were made in Germany or America? They aren't marked in any way so far as I know. Its not like they're going to do a metallurgical analysis or something |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 12:25:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn’t a Franklin Binary cover 4 of the required 6? That sounds fairly easy. Also, in my FAL days I remember there was some discussion on whether or not magazine parts would suffice as they are not on the weapon when removed. Unfortunately, I cannot remember what the outcome of that discussion was. Is that an issue? 8654 Magazine counts as 3 parts for 922r: Mag body, follower and baseplate |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 12:58:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Magazine counts as 3 parts for 922r: Mag body, follower and baseplate Yup, but when you remove it from the firearm... what then?I think that was the issue / talking point with the FAL. 8654 |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 1:18:54 PM EDT
[#17]
There is an awful lot of law and regulation for the auto industry, on what constitutes 'US made'. Rather than go by existing law, ATF just made a bunch of stuff up.
I suspect if one ended up in court it might be beneficial to ask the court to apply the existing standard. One of my questions has always been 'If I take a five dollar part, and do ten dollars worth of work to it in the US, is it predominantly US made?' If I carve a stock from Honduran Mahogany in the US, is it US made? What if I re-shape or contour a stock made in Honduras, is it US made? If 'manufacturing' (according to the ATF) is as simple as putting uppers on lowers, why isn't blasting, parking, and painting manufacturing? |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 3:20:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, you would buy it (SP5) being an imported pistol and then ‘making’ a rifle. Because now a rifle, you have to have the parts. Well, that sux. Maybe I just don’t do it or get a brace. Thanks, 8654 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because you’re still making a rifle that has more than 10 imported parts. Making a SBR doesn’t exempt you from 922r. So, you would buy it (SP5) being an imported pistol and then ‘making’ a rifle. Because now a rifle, you have to have the parts. Well, that sux. Maybe I just don’t do it or get a brace. Thanks, 8654 My guess would be that a lot of people making SBRs from HKs and other import pistols like the B&T APC, CZ Scorpion, etc. aren’t worried too about 922r. YMMV. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 4:45:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would bet serious cash no. Even if there were how are they supposed to tell what pieces were made in Germany or America? They aren't marked in any way so far as I know. Its not like they're going to do a metallurgical analysis or something Quote HistoryQuoted: I would bet serious cash no. Even if there were how are they supposed to tell what pieces were made in Germany or America? They aren't marked in any way so far as I know. Its not like they're going to do a metallurgical analysis or something Quoted: Serious question. Who is going to enforce 922r? Is there someone that is versed in knowing what parts are german and what are US made and would take the thing apart and verify? It's unenforceable on it's own. Unless you're plastering images and deets of your non compliant SBR all over Arfcom, or spillin' the beans to your local snitch. (lol) As you stated, no one would be able to tell the difference between "Foreign" parts and "Non Foreign" parts with eyeballs... The only time this would be an issue is if you get busted for something else, something bigger and they find more "evidence" 922R should be a topic undiscussed. Get it? |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 7:45:32 PM EDT
[#20]
A mad bolt head would be a good upgrade and it counts as 1 US part. Check out Henderson Defense’s post.
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Posted: 1/4/2021 8:27:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn’t a Franklin Binary cover 4 of the required 6? That sounds fairly easy. Also, in my FAL days I remember there was some discussion on whether or not magazine parts would suffice as they are not on the weapon when removed. Unfortunately, I cannot remember what the outcome of that discussion was. Is that an issue? 8654 I think mags count as three (3) parts. But don't take my word for it. 
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Posted: 1/4/2021 8:31:09 PM EDT
[#22]
LOL
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Posted: 1/5/2021 1:21:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because you’re still making a rifle that has more than 10 imported parts. Making a SBR doesn’t exempt you from 922r. Except for when ATF previously held that making an NFA regulated item removed it from the purview of the sporting clause. Then changed their mind. There are multiple conflicting ATF letters from different years. Granted, the letters only apply to the addressees. |
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Posted: 1/5/2021 2:07:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, but when you remove it from the firearm... what then?I think that was the issue / talking point with the FAL. 8654 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Magazine counts as 3 parts for 922r: Mag body, follower and baseplate Yup, but when you remove it from the firearm... what then?I think that was the issue / talking point with the FAL. 8654 The rifle has no more imported parts without a magazine inserted than it does with one. The wording isn't "Must have more than X amount of US parts", it's "must have less than X amount of imported parts." That's how they determine whether it's considered an import or domestic firearm. Yeah it's weird wording, and it's a stupid and ineffective (and likely unenforced) law, but it's the loophole we have for legally making rifles out of imported firearms that would be otherwise illegal for importation directly as rifles. |
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Posted: 1/5/2021 12:30:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The rifle has no more imported parts without a magazine inserted than it does with one. The wording isn't "Must have more than X amount of US parts", it's "must have less than X amount of imported parts." That's how they determine whether it's considered an import or domestic firearm. Yeah it's weird wording, and it's a stupid and ineffective (and likely unenforced) law, but it's the loophole we have for legally making rifles out of imported firearms that would be otherwise illegal for importation directly as rifles. I believe it's intended for mass production companies, Sig Sauer, Smith and Wesson etc, but because it's there it technically applies to us SBRing them therefore technically manufacturing the firearm |
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Posted: 1/7/2021 1:03:55 AM EDT
[#26]
Wow, the fact people get hung up on compliance like this cracks me up. Nobody gives a fuck, 922r is a fucking joke. It's so funny hearing how eager people are to comply with arbitrary bs anyhow, "I just want to be legal". You should have got a ptr9 if your going to replace German parts with god knows what. You are the first person to even start a thread concerned with a foreign pistol being a compliant sbr...
Go live life, drink whiskey, drive fast, and dont worry about some stupid arbitrary shit that nobody cares about, let alone waste money trying to appease an agency that makes up the rules as they go! It's people like you that make me ponder sometimes... we need to put our middle fingers up more regardless, and stop acting so eager to comply with nonsense (law or not). Just know your likely to be the ONLY one concerned. Dont think anybody is defacing an SP5 in the name of 922r here. Furthermore, 922r is for imported rifles. Changing a foreign pistol to a rifle doesnt change its importation status and the laws that follow. I think people have this topic very misunderstood |
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Posted: 1/7/2021 3:53:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Furthermore, 922r is for imported rifles. Changing a foreign pistol to a rifle doesnt change its importation status and the laws that follow. The thing about 922(r) is that it doesn't prohibit possession, only assembly. If nobody can prove that you assembled the firearm then it doesn't matter if it's compliant or not. There are also exceptions, such as firearms imported for official use, or shipped to government entities. So if you buy a used firearm that was previously shipped to a police department, it wouldn't need to be assembled in compliance with 922(r). Same goes for any firearm you didn't assemble personally. The fact that these exceptions exist can create reasonable doubt as to a firearm's status, which is one reason prosecution is so uncommon. |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 12:05:11 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's people like you that make me ponder sometimes... Sounds like you need to do more of that and less unhinged rambling and spewing insults. Glad I could start you down that path. |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 5:23:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Sounds like Magpul might be cooking up some MP5 mags.
 Thats 3 parts right there. Edit: In case anyone wants a source Magpul posted some fancy 1940's era confidential pics for Shot Show 2021 on their facebook page yesterday. One pic is a MP5 with the mag area redacted with a large black box and on their actual website it lists MP5 / G36 / AUG under the PMAG tab. |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 8:22:14 PM EDT
[#30]
https://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-steel-letternumber-stamping-set-36-pc-63677.html
Just stamp U.S.A. on your compliant parts. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 11:01:15 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn’t a Franklin Binary cover 4 of the required 6? That sounds fairly easy. snip That's what I did plus cocking handle and forearm = 6. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 12:38:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what I did plus cocking handle and forearm = 6. Same but instead of a binary I went with the all US made ambi trigger pack. So far no functionial issues with it but God help you if you take it apart without any reference pictures to guide you putting it back together.
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Posted: 1/11/2021 5:15:27 PM EDT
[#33]
I just had to log in to ARFCOM using a backup domain name because the left has taken the gloves off with censorship.
Frankly, I’m surprised 922(r) is what’s on the radar of concern. |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 5:28:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just had to log in to ARFCOM using a backup domain name because the left has taken the gloves off with censorship. Frankly, I’m surprised 922(r) is what’s on the radar of concern. Why are you surprised? This thread and most of the replies happened before the Godaddy bullshit...  |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 5:48:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are you surprised? This thread and most of the replies happened before the Godaddy bullshit... What? What did you guys think was going to happen? We’ve been living through a soft communist takeover the last how many years and now the go daddy thing is what brings it into focus for you??? That’s your redline for saying well these compliance laws are dumb? |
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Posted: 1/11/2021 6:04:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What? What did you guys think was going to happen? We’ve been living through a soft communist takeover the last how many years and now the go daddy thing is what brings it into focus for you??? That’s your redline for saying well these compliance laws are dumb? Now you are putting words in my mouth? Head back to GD if you want to be a drama queen, this is a tech forum. 
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