school me on the best PCC in 9mm, want small, light, good suppressor host

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - school me on the best PCC in 9mm, want small, light, good suppressor host (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/14/2018 8:13:09 PM EDT

Hey guys, I'm starting my research on my next firearm project and am new to pistol caliber carbines so id like some info on the differences. So my 10.5 556 ar isn't the quietest suppressor host, is heavy and not that compact, so I would like a 9mm carbine to contrast it. I would order some type of 9mm suppressor for it so I want the entire package to be as short as possible, light as possible, and as quiet as possible with subsonic ammo. Ive been looking at the sig Mpx k, Zenith mp5k clone, and the B&T apc9 and B&T ghm9. Other things I'm looking for is a good trigger, pistol brace options, 3 lug mount, and possible binary trigger options in the future. What are the differences in sound, recoil impulse, and gassiness of rollerlock vs regular blowback?

Posted: 1/14/2018 9:30:09 PM EDT

[#1]

Are you planning to SBR it?

The MPX seemed gassy to me, I wasn’t impressed based off its suppressed performance. Unsuppressed, I don’t think it has an equal. It’s light, shoots smooth, easily modified with good aftermarket support and recoil is light.

The MP5/clones are ubiquitous. They’re quiet suppressor hosts and recoil is light. The only MP variant I like is the K model though.

The Scorpion Evo is a bit hefty, somewhat easily modified depending on the variant you get and it’s very quiet. It’s biggest detractor is it’s blowback which results in more felt recoil than the MPX or MP5 series. Being a new design it comes pretty modernized and doesn’t need much aside from a better trigger.

Posted: 1/14/2018 10:11:51 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
Are you planning to SBR it?

The MPX seemed gassy to me, I wasn’t impressed based off its suppressed performance. Unsuppressed, I don’t think it has an equal. It’s light, shoots smooth, easily modified with good aftermarket support and recoil is light.

The MP5/clones are ubiquitous. They’re quiet suppressor hosts and recoil is light. The only MP variant I like is the K model though.

The Scorpion Evo is a bit hefty, somewhat easily modified depending on the variant you get and it’s very quiet. It’s biggest detractor is it’s blowback which results in more felt recoil than the MPX or MP5 series. Being a new design it comes pretty modernized and doesn’t need much aside from a better trigger.

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might at some point but will most likely keep it as a pistol considering the brace options todays, what makes the mp5 a quieter suppresser host then the mpx? i prefer the k size in any of these

Posted: 1/14/2018 10:28:50 PM EDT

[#3]

The new scorpion micro is worth a look. Pair it with an omega 9K and your done. In the process of that right now. Cost wise its beats the sig, mags as well and no recalls. Should come out under 2K all said and done, maybe even a budget optic included.

Posted: 1/14/2018 10:58:55 PM EDT

[#4]

i can recommend the MKE z5rs and the APC9. neither are very light or inexpensive, the GHM9 might be better there. i would not hesitate to buy the GHM9 although i do not like the current stock for it but it looks like at least one more is in the works. the tailhook brace looks great if planning to keep as a pistol. the stock in this video is expensive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnEk9PkMu84

the apc9 is very smooth, feels like its on rollers. id choose this if you want to run a red dot. last round bolt hold open, ambi controls, bolt catch and release button. some find the ambi safety to be uncomfortable but it doesnt bother me. i might have one of the newer selectors. mags are expensive but can be found for $45 (lanbos).

the z5rs is a fun gun to shoot with the iron sights, very accurate. i assume the K version is too. POF mags are a good deal for $30 but i prefer the 3 MKE mags that come with the pistol. have a better finish and sit a bit tighter in the magwell, not that the POFs are too loose.

Posted: 1/15/2018 5:39:42 AM EDT

[#5]

Small & light?
I’d say B&T TP9 may fit your needs.
I own a EVO and love it. It’s solid and but not super light. Maybe the newer K configuration is worth a look as well.

Posted: 1/15/2018 7:20:25 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:mags are expensive but can be found for $45 (lanbos).

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Let's be real re: APC9 mags. They were $45 for about a week, then they sold out, and now they're about $60 everywhere else.

Posted: 1/15/2018 8:38:20 AM EDT

[#7]

Dare I say a G17+ G17L Threaded barrel in a Roni?

ETA: No binary trigger or 3-lug option

If not, I'll be releasing a short review before the month ends (check our IP forum) on a Glock fed, AR pattern, threaded, lightweight PCC that can be had cheaper than a Glock handgun. It was sent to me for T&E, so I can't say what it is just yet, but I like it. I plan on doing a 300 round stress test with it (all I can afford to do).

Don't mean to plug the review, but it's VERY light for a PCC, takes AR triggers, comes with a Sig SOB brace and threaded, which are all things you were looking for.

MP5, MPX, EVO's and even my AR-9 8.5" are all pretty heavy. I haven't messed too much with the B&T's, but I've heard a lot of great things about them.

Posted: 1/15/2018 4:22:01 PM EDT

[#8]

Apc9 or mp5 k

Posted: 1/15/2018 4:38:40 PM EDT

[#9]

I really like my Scorpion Evo S1 w/ Omega 9K. It is probably the most fun firearm that I own.

The trigger is perfectly adequate to me.

Posted: 1/15/2018 5:10:03 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Dare I say a G17+ G17L Threaded barrel in a Roni?

http://i.imgur.com/g83e5zI.jpg
ETA: No binary trigger or 3-lug option

If not, I'll be releasing a short review before the month ends (check our IP forum) on a Glock fed, AR pattern, threaded, lightweight PCC that can be had cheaper than a Glock handgun. It was sent to me for T&E, so I can't say what it is just yet, but I like it. I plan on doing a 300 round stress test with it (all I can afford to do).

Don't mean to plug the review, but it's VERY light for a PCC, takes AR triggers, comes with a Sig SOB brace and threaded, which are all things you were looking for.

MP5, MPX, EVO's and even my AR-9 8.5" are all pretty heavy. I haven't messed too much with the B&T's, but I've heard a lot of great things about them.

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Im not really a fan of ar pattern pcc's, they just look like too much like a franken gun to me, the biggest con for me would be the buffer tube, but if you say cheaper then a glock and lightweight i might have to take a look

Posted: 1/15/2018 5:13:11 PM EDT

[#11]

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Apc9 or mp5 k

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I am definitely drawn the most to these two, never handled either so im not sure how they feel and handle, on paper the apc9 just seems like the best choice but the thought of owning an mp5k just sounds appealing

Posted: 1/15/2018 5:50:14 PM EDT

[#12]

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Can't go wrong with either one. 2 of my favorites but I'm a PCC fiend. B&T APC9 & HK MP5K-N

Posted: 1/16/2018 10:19:34 AM EDT

[#13]

I'm considering the Ruger 9mm takedown personally...

Posted: 1/16/2018 11:14:31 AM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
I'm considering the Ruger 9mm takedown personally...

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Me too!

Posted: 1/16/2018 11:32:04 AM EDT

[#15]

Love my SBR suppressed CZ Scorpion

Posted: 1/16/2018 11:54:07 AM EDT

[#16]

New PCC coming out soon but I can't mention the company yet. Blowback, LIGHT, Glock mags, 400 bucks, comes with an SB brace.

I'll post the link when I can.

Oh it also uses standard AR FCG

Posted: 1/16/2018 1:35:01 PM EDT

[#17]

My personal choice

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Posted: 1/17/2018 7:23:24 AM EDT

[#18]

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Quoted:My personal choice.

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For small, light and good suppressor host?!?

Posted: 1/17/2018 7:46:49 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
New PCC coming out soon but I can't mention the company yet. Blowback, LIGHT, Glock mags, 400 bucks, comes with an SB brace.

I'll post the link when I can.

Oh it also uses standard AR FCG

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That sounds great. Does it have a real folding stock or are we stuck with the buffer tube ala AR9 etc?

Posted: 1/17/2018 7:59:00 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Hey guys, I'm starting my research on my next firearm project and am new to pistol caliber carbines so id like some info on the differences. So my 10.5 556 ar isn't the quietest suppressor host, is heavy and not that compact, so I would like a 9mm carbine to contrast it. I would order some type of 9mm suppressor for it so I want the entire package to be as short as possible, light as possible, and as quiet as possible with subsonic ammo. Ive been looking at the sig Mpx k, Zenith mp5k clone, and the B&T apc9 and B&T ghm9. Other things I'm looking for is a good trigger, pistol brace options, 3 lug mount, and possible binary trigger options in the future. What are the differences in sound, recoil impulse, and gassiness of rollerlock vs regular blowback?

View Quote

Unfortunately, most of the PCC's on the market are not very size efficient, and are barely shorter then their rifle caliber equivalent for the same barrel length.

The "ideal" configuration, which offers the most compact package, is the mag in the grip style.

The smallest and lightest is the B&T TP9 - 3lbs, 12" folded, with low recoil rotating barrel system. Downsides are that it only works with the $1100 B&T Rotex suppressor, has a pretty terrible trigger, and has $60 mags:

The 2nd best option for form factor is the MPA 930DMG Defender that takes Glock mags. This is an aluminum lower MAC, takes Glock mags and a folding stocks, and has a folded length of about 13-14". Weight is around 4lbs or so:

I'm hoping we see more mag in the grip buzzgats at SHOT this year.

Posted: 1/17/2018 10:20:37 AM EDT

[#21]

The new ruger might be able to be made into something like you are looking for but it doesn't sound like it fits your specs from the factory. I am pretty sure there are going to be lots of different stock options in a couple of years. 16" barrel though, unless you have it chopped and sbr it.

Posted: 1/17/2018 10:36:46 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
That sounds great. Does it have a real folding stock or are we stuck with the buffer tube ala AR9 etc?

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
New PCC coming out soon but I can't mention the company yet. Blowback, LIGHT, Glock mags, 400 bucks, comes with an SB brace.

I'll post the link when I can.

Oh it also uses standard AR FCG

That sounds great. Does it have a real folding stock or are we stuck with the buffer tube ala AR9 etc?

Blowback and has the buffer/spring inside the buffer tube.

Posted: 1/17/2018 10:58:44 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

For small, light and good suppressor host?!?

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I didn’t need light or to be a good supressor host , just liked the no NFA aspect of it . Personal choice

Posted: 1/17/2018 11:06:56 AM EDT

[#24]

sbr'd micro uzi

Posted: 1/17/2018 11:10:08 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Unfortunately, most of the PCC's on the market are not very size efficient, and are barely shorter then their rifle caliber equivalent for the same barrel length.
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w666/protectionfirst56/IMG_0481_zpsetavetjz.jpg

The "ideal" configuration, which offers the most compact package, is the mag in the grip style.

The smallest and lightest is the B&T TP9 - 3lbs, 12" folded, with low recoil rotating barrel system. Downsides are that it only works with the $1100 B&T Rotex suppressor, has a pretty terrible trigger, and has $60 mags:
http://www.primusdatabase.com/images/d/d2/B%26T_MP9_Submachine_Gun-PDW_2.jpg

The 2nd best option for form factor is the MPA 930DMG Defender that takes Glock mags. This is an aluminum lower MAC, takes Glock mags and a folding stocks, and has a folded length of about 13-14". Weight is around 4lbs or so:
https://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/mpa30dmg_folded.jpg

I'm hoping we see more mag in the grip buzzgats at SHOT this year.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hey guys, I'm starting my research on my next firearm project and am new to pistol caliber carbines so id like some info on the differences. So my 10.5 556 ar isn't the quietest suppressor host, is heavy and not that compact, so I would like a 9mm carbine to contrast it. I would order some type of 9mm suppressor for it so I want the entire package to be as short as possible, light as possible, and as quiet as possible with subsonic ammo. Ive been looking at the sig Mpx k, Zenith mp5k clone, and the B&T apc9 and B&T ghm9. Other things I'm looking for is a good trigger, pistol brace options, 3 lug mount, and possible binary trigger options in the future. What are the differences in sound, recoil impulse, and gassiness of rollerlock vs regular blowback?

Unfortunately, most of the PCC's on the market are not very size efficient, and are barely shorter then their rifle caliber equivalent for the same barrel length.
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w666/protectionfirst56/IMG_0481_zpsetavetjz.jpg

The "ideal" configuration, which offers the most compact package, is the mag in the grip style.

The smallest and lightest is the B&T TP9 - 3lbs, 12" folded, with low recoil rotating barrel system. Downsides are that it only works with the $1100 B&T Rotex suppressor, has a pretty terrible trigger, and has $60 mags:
http://www.primusdatabase.com/images/d/d2/B%26T_MP9_Submachine_Gun-PDW_2.jpg

The 2nd best option for form factor is the MPA 930DMG Defender that takes Glock mags. This is an aluminum lower MAC, takes Glock mags and a folding stocks, and has a folded length of about 13-14". Weight is around 4lbs or so:
https://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/mpa30dmg_folded.jpg

I'm hoping we see more mag in the grip buzzgats at SHOT this year.

I own both of these in NFA configurations and while I love the B&T (I own two of them), I cannot stress how nice the Masterpiece Arms guns are. Not only are they perfectly machines and function simply and flawlessly, they take Glock mags and suppress very nicely, even with a standard pistol can. I have a Griffin 3-lug adapter on mine and have run it with an AAC evo, a TiRant 45, Omega 9K and a TMSG2 subgun can. The gun is basically Hollywood quiet with 147gr, but is basically a whisper with heavier stuff. Highly recommended.

Posted: 1/17/2018 11:34:23 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
New PCC coming out soon but I can't mention the company yet. Blowback, LIGHT, Glock mags, 400 bucks, comes with an SB brace.

I'll post the link when I can.

Oh it also uses standard AR FCG

View Quote

Posted: 1/17/2018 11:35:13 AM EDT

[#27]

I am a fan of my AR 9mm build

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Posted: 1/17/2018 12:00:00 PM EDT

[#28]

MP5K. Most fun PCC I've ever fired. Clones can be found with a 3 lug, good folding arm brace available, and Franklin Armory makes a binary trigger for it. It's smooth, quiet and reliable. It feeds everything from cheap 115 gr steel cased crap to my 147 grain subsonic reloads. I have an SP5K that with work done by Jayson at IGF.

Here is mine:

Attached File

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Here it is with binary trigger:

0ACE2840 B07B 4C1E AA47 801B5AF894A3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvv2ZnRKH8

Posted: 1/17/2018 12:45:49 PM EDT

[#29]

for everything you have said, seems like only two options:

separate can, MP5K

integral, MPX from Innovative Arms, my LGS has one and its about as quiet I can imagine in a 9mm PCC

Posted: 1/17/2018 1:02:03 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Love my SBR suppressed CZ Scorpion

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Attached File

Posted: 1/17/2018 1:34:50 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

Unfortunately, most of the PCC's on the market are not very size efficient, and are barely shorter then their rifle caliber equivalent for the same barrel length.
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w666/protectionfirst56/IMG_0481_zpsetavetjz.jpg

I'm hoping we see more mag in the grip buzzgats at SHOT this year.

View Quote

Line the buttstocks up and compare

Posted: 1/17/2018 2:44:06 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:I didn’t need light or to be a good supressor host , just liked the no NFA aspect of it . Personal choice

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Understood, but the OP is looking for a small, light, good suppressor host... and a 5.56 rifle converted to 9mm, that's heavy, can't collapse, etc isn't it.

Posted: 1/17/2018 5:07:55 PM EDT

[#33]

Loved my suppressed sbr Evo so much I bought two.

Posted: 1/17/2018 5:11:41 PM EDT

[#34]

What's your budget?

B&T USW

CMT AR-MINI

Posted: 1/17/2018 5:35:38 PM EDT

[#35]

PLEASE tell me where I can buy the CMT AR Mini?????

Posted: 1/17/2018 6:07:53 PM EDT

[#36]

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Quoted:
PLEASE tell me where I can buy the CMT AR Mini?????

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Don't think you can. yet.

Posted: 1/17/2018 8:48:15 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
Line the buttstocks up and compare

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Unfortunately, most of the PCC's on the market are not very size efficient, and are barely shorter then their rifle caliber equivalent for the same barrel length.
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w666/protectionfirst56/IMG_0481_zpsetavetjz.jpg

I'm hoping we see more mag in the grip buzzgats at SHOT this year.

Line the buttstocks up and compare

Sadly that's not my photo.

But if we look at the specs, and compare barrel lengths, you can see that the "mag forward of the grip" is not a very space efficient design.

CZ Scorpion 7.72" barrel folded: 16"
CZ 805 Bren 11" folded: 22.75"
-->CZ 805 7.72" barrel = 19.47"

If we look at a slightly more direct factory comparison:
CZ Scorpion 7.72" = 16"
XCR Mini 5.56 7.5" = 18.5"

So in both cases, its clear that we're not getting that much more compact going 9mm - saving only 2.5-3.5" OAL. And that's a result of the "magazine forward" configuration.

Whereas with a "mag in the Grip " configuration, you can get a lunchbox sized 9mm weapon that would be impossible to match with a 5.56/.300 weapon.

Posted: 1/17/2018 8:50:55 PM EDT

[#38]

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Quoted:
Blowback and has the buffer/spring inside the buffer tube.

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Thanks for getting back to me. That's a bummer though about the buffer tube.

Posted: 1/17/2018 9:31:04 PM EDT

[#39]

The Beretta PMX looks pretty good. Like a more refined version of that mid priced B&T model i cant member off top of my head... not the apc9..

Posted: 1/17/2018 11:05:41 PM EDT

[#40]

You're referring to the P26 by B&T. It was a limited run and then supposedly B&T sold the rights to Beretta. I don't know if Beretta is going to bring the PMX to civilian market, according to another thread here, there was supposedly a "non compete" clause that went along with the deal. I have a P26 and for a $1k it's awesome quality.

Posted: 1/19/2018 10:17:52 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
Dare I say a G17+ G17L Threaded barrel in a Roni?

http://i.imgur.com/g83e5zI.jpg
ETA: No binary trigger or 3-lug option

If not, I'll be releasing a short review before the month ends (check our IP forum) on a Glock fed, AR pattern, threaded, lightweight PCC that can be had cheaper than a Glock handgun. It was sent to me for T&E, so I can't say what it is just yet, but I like it. I plan on doing a 300 round stress test with it (all I can afford to do).

Don't mean to plug the review, but it's VERY light for a PCC, takes AR triggers, comes with a Sig SOB brace and threaded, which are all things you were looking for.

MP5, MPX, EVO's and even my AR-9 8.5" are all pretty heavy. I haven't messed too much with the B&T's, but I've heard a lot of great things about them.

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Where and when do i find this review on this new pcc? What is the ip forum?

Posted: 1/22/2018 6:51:23 PM EDT

[#42]

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Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/59839/IMG_1234-421491.JPG

Can't go wrong with either one. 2 of my favorites but I'm a PCC fiend. B&T APC9 & HK MP5K-N

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THIS. If you're going to get one, make it a great one. Can't go wrong with either. The B&T mag price isn't at all bad compared to factory HK mags.

I am biased towards the TP9 because of its weight and size. You should compare the MP5k-sized pistol and TP9 side by side if you are looking for small and light. The Rotex is expensive but works amazingly well and keeps the OAL relatively short.

The Uzi Pro is about half the price after magazines and is also nice and compact. Not too much said about it but it is a nice braced pistol.

Posted: 1/23/2018 4:19:17 PM EDT

[#43]

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Quoted:
https://media.giphy.com/media/KBx7fQoLxuV7G/giphy.gif

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Quoted:

Quoted:
New PCC coming out soon but I can't mention the company yet. Blowback, LIGHT, Glock mags, 400 bucks, comes with an SB brace.

I'll post the link when I can.

Oh it also uses standard AR FCG

https://media.giphy.com/media/KBx7fQoLxuV7G/giphy.gif

Extar EP9

Posted: 1/23/2018 4:23:21 PM EDT

[#44]

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Extar EP9

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Not exactly new, per se....

Failed To Load Title

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QYBtnYA_Ls

Posted: 1/23/2018 7:19:36 PM EDT

[#45]

Its not hard to make a K scorpion if you buy the 8" barrel pistol. My folds in a 15" laptop briefcase without the suppressor on it. Anything with 30 rounds of 147gr 9mm is going to add weight to your small light gun.