User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
WA, USA
|
Posted: 6/9/2013 6:59:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BGENE]
I assume on a composite fill TL rated safe that the composite fill cures similar to concrete and achieves a certain strength after X number of days.
I have seen the old U.L. TL-30 test video were the U.L. guys zip the outer shell off the safe in a matter of maybe 30 seconds, they then proceed to beat on the safe with sledge hammers/picks/chisels repeatedly with no luck. I recognize we are talking serious PSI fill, is it just simple physics, the sledge blows can't generate enough force against the high PSI? I further assume there is all kinds of secret fill like aluminum fibers or whatever holding the fill together behind the scenes. On the X6 safes that have alloy plates in the side, I assume they are fixed during the pour process similar to using rebar with ties during a concrete pour. The term interlocking is tossed around, I assume this is so it is difficult to peel the plates from the composite? I assume the alloy selected is some form of a compromise based on anticipated type of attack, costs, torch vs. drill. I.E., Manganese is superior for this but not that, etc, etc based upon alloy. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. ETA APRIL 2016 - Before this thread became the standard Amsec thread, there were several active threads and I have dug through the archives to add them to this thread. Yet Another AMSEC Safeguy Question AMSEC Question AMSEC Amvault burned in fire AMSEC Questions for Thesafeguy 06-05-13 AMSEC (and new UL) Can the AMSEC ESL10 lock be muted Early thread discussing various AMSEC TL's 2014 thread on S&G Locks added 12/29/19 As requested fire testing added to OP.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 1:31:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Six2Life:
....Although, there is one area of the BF series that is causing me some concern. I have had the opportunity to look behind the door of a friend's late-90's BF1512 and was less than impressed with the construction of the boltwork. For one, the bolts seemed rather short. The other concern was the apparent weakness of the bolt support. The only piece of steel that the bolts pass through was rather thin. It couldn't have been more than 10ga. I did not see any kind of anti-pry tabs on the bolt carriage. I actually recommended that he consider pulling the bolt carriage out and have another piece of sheet steel welded to the back of the door frame since there seemed to be enough clearance with the bolts locked to get a pretty thick reinforcement in there. It looked to me like there was enough room in the door of this particular safe to double the length of the bolts and add a second bolt support an inch or so back from the door frame. Wouldn't this provide a substantial increase in pry-resistance for a rather small increase in production cost? Am I way off base even worrying about this? I realize the 1512 isn't the same safe that I am considering buying so maybe none of this even applies to the gunsafe BF line. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Six2Life:
....Although, there is one area of the BF series that is causing me some concern. I have had the opportunity to look behind the door of a friend's late-90's BF1512 and was less than impressed with the construction of the boltwork. For one, the bolts seemed rather short. The other concern was the apparent weakness of the bolt support. The only piece of steel that the bolts pass through was rather thin. It couldn't have been more than 10ga. I did not see any kind of anti-pry tabs on the bolt carriage. I actually recommended that he consider pulling the bolt carriage out and have another piece of sheet steel welded to the back of the door frame since there seemed to be enough clearance with the bolts locked to get a pretty thick reinforcement in there. It looked to me like there was enough room in the door of this particular safe to double the length of the bolts and add a second bolt support an inch or so back from the door frame. Wouldn't this provide a substantial increase in pry-resistance for a rather small increase in production cost? Am I way off base even worrying about this? I realize the 1512 isn't the same safe that I am considering buying so maybe none of this even applies to the gunsafe BF line. I see your point, and in your eyes you see weakness. In my eyes, there is simplicity and evolution. Well, that and 19 years of stellar success with the single most significant advance in safe designs in decades. That safe that you find to be lacking so much has changed the safe industry. I designed that safe in 1995, and it has been the biggest selling safe model in the last 30 years. A true milestone in the history of safes, it's the first plate door safe to get a legitimate UL burglary rating and a real UL Class 350 1-hour fire rating. To this day, not a single competitor has managed to meet the challenge and duplicate the advanced technologies hidden in that safe design. That simplicity is why it works. You may see that boltwork to be frail, but there is genius in that simplicity. I am not going to explain the why, but the unrivaled success of that product says that your concerns are completely unfounded. The BF Security Safe is the cornerstone of two decades of our success. The BF gunsafe that everyone raves about here, and for good reason, is the metamorphosis of that product into a Gunsafe platform. No doubt all of those beef-up measures that you suggest sound good, but would ruin the product. Trust me, there is nothing wrong in that safe design. I can point you to tens-of-thousands of satisfied customers that will sing that safe's praises as to it's value, security and fire resistance.... ...Is there an approximate cut-off weight above which someone should not attempt a DIY install, assuming no staircases are involved? Is removing the door to bring the weight down more trouble than it is worth? I moved my safe into my home all by myself. It weighs well over 3000 lbs. You can do anything if you think, use your tools with ingenuity and do things in a slow and deliberate way. I didn't remove the door. I used 3 sheets of 3/4 plywood, a pile of short 1x2s, 2x4s and 4x6s, a pallet jack and a nice big Johnson bar. I think you can handle a BF Gunsafe, if you think you can handle a BF Gunsafe. TSG, do you have any tips for doing this? ...I am thinking of trying to seal the sheetrock joints with some of that 3M fire caulk. Would it be a bad idea to use a sealant that may expand when heated and possibly displace the sheetrock? Should I put some thin sheet steel inside the sheetrock as a liner to prevent displacement? Is some sheetrock better than others? My local big box home improvement store had a couple different types, one of which claimed to be "firerock". The store monkey had no idea why it might be more fire resistant. Cut to fit tight. Lay in the top, then the sides, then the back, then the floor... in that order. The sides and back will hold up the top. RTV Silicone Calking, good. Goop every joint full length as you lay in the panels. A second layer, same order as the first layer. Pack the jamb pocket area with strips on all four sides, and cap with one long cover piece. Silicone and cover with masking tap to hold until the RTV is set. Slather RTV on the inside back face of the door plate and piece in as much drywall as you can fit around the boltwork without interfering with function. One panel on the back of the door to replace the door cover. Intumescent door seals with soft silicone seals on top to get a good closing seal. Not a bad fire safe, should go 45 minutes. Steel liner, don't bother, too much work, not much gain. Use Type X gypsum board if you can find it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 1:38:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By theblaze:... A glass of red wine and a loaded P7 salute two class acts: TheSafeGuy and the U-2 DragonLady!.
You are welcome Dave. Thanks for the tribute, it's too much. Seems two of the four people that caught and reported errors on the flier have received their rewards. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 1:52:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R3drid3r:...Seems to me [and this is my question] stopping the break-in and quick-grab risk is that which makes sense to my situation.
Have I missed something? Nope. You have it down dead right. What I say to anyone is that you need only what you feel you need. If your risk is very low, and you feel good about that, then buy accordingly. There is no wrong choice, brand or level of security and fire resistance. It's all about risk assessment. If your conditions are not going to change any time in your foreseeable future, then your future needs are not a concern either. I am not here to sell safes. I am here to help people and to learn. I am learning from you guys, as well as all the expert gun enthusiasts here on ARFCOM. I am going to be honest, and tell you how it is. If that advise changes your path, that's fine, either way. Some people are far more conservative than you, and feel the need to have a higher degree of confidence to feel comfort when they leave their home unattended. I will say this. Don't underestimate the smash-and-grab thief's ingenuity and conviction when they find a safe. A really low-end safe is no match to a large crow bar, or a sledge hammer and a log splitting wedge. Again, if that's not a concern, then save your money for the guns and move on in bliss. I agree, If all that stuff can be replaced to your satisfaction with money from an insurance policy, then why should you do any more than you suggest? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 5:43:18 AM EDT
[#4]
When I received my light kit in the mail, my first thought was, "what did I order"? Then I opened it, and felt like a kid on Christmas! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I honestly didn't expect anything as nice or useful as this kit. In fact, I had forgotten all about it.
TSG has done more than enough to help all of us, helping us cut through the hype that is out there so we can all be better informed consumers. (Of course, Frank has also been there all along to help us, too.) I've been debating installing this kit in my current set up and posting pics, but I've decided, at least for now, that my current gun cabinet isn't worthy of this kit. So, I'll be waiting until I move and buy a real safe to install this kit. I'm starting to look for a new place now, and hope to be moved by summer. Once I get a new place, my plan is to get a RF or RFX (might have to settle for a BF) in the garage. This kit needs to be in a TL-rated AMSEC! So, for now, this pic will have to do.  TSG, you really didn't have to do this! Thanks again! |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 9:20:59 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Nope. You have it down dead right. What I say to anyone is that you need only what you feel you need. If your risk is very low, and you feel good about that, then buy accordingly. There is no wrong choice, brand or level of security and fire resistance. It's all about risk assessment. If your conditions are not going to change any time in your foreseeable future, then your future needs are not a concern either. I am not here to sell safes. I am here to help people and to learn. I am learning from you guys, as well as all the expert gun enthusiasts here on ARFCOM. I am going to be honest, and tell you how it is. If that advise changes your path, that's fine, either way. Some people are far more conservative than you, and feel the need to have a higher degree of confidence to feel comfort when they leave their home unattended. I will say this. Don't underestimate the smash-and-grab thief's ingenuity and conviction when they find a safe. A really low-end safe is no match to a large crow bar, or a sledge hammer and a log splitting wedge. Again, if that's not a concern, then save your money for the guns and move on in bliss. I agree, If all that stuff can be replaced to your satisfaction with money from an insurance policy, then why should you do any more than you suggest? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By R3drid3r:...Seems to me [and this is my question] stopping the break-in and quick-grab risk is that which makes sense to my situation.
Have I missed something? Nope. You have it down dead right. What I say to anyone is that you need only what you feel you need. If your risk is very low, and you feel good about that, then buy accordingly. There is no wrong choice, brand or level of security and fire resistance. It's all about risk assessment. If your conditions are not going to change any time in your foreseeable future, then your future needs are not a concern either. I am not here to sell safes. I am here to help people and to learn. I am learning from you guys, as well as all the expert gun enthusiasts here on ARFCOM. I am going to be honest, and tell you how it is. If that advise changes your path, that's fine, either way. Some people are far more conservative than you, and feel the need to have a higher degree of confidence to feel comfort when they leave their home unattended. I will say this. Don't underestimate the smash-and-grab thief's ingenuity and conviction when they find a safe. A really low-end safe is no match to a large crow bar, or a sledge hammer and a log splitting wedge. Again, if that's not a concern, then save your money for the guns and move on in bliss. I agree, If all that stuff can be replaced to your satisfaction with money from an insurance policy, then why should you do any more than you suggest? Thanks, I truly appreciate your insights. In my field I have learned that it is what others don't know, and don't know they know, that is the real problem. You are doing a great service here. I plan on having less than $10k in firearms [have less than 5k right now, had zero a year ago] and can afford to replace them if needed. I don't have BRD, I have a rash from DC and have concluded if 50M households were adequately armed DC would have pause to rethink. I do plan on recessing the safe into a closet, surrounded by walls so that only the front/door will be immediately exposed. I recognize a determined, prepared thief cannot be stopped. I simply cannot see investing 20+% of that which I'm safeguarding, on the safe, when the value isn't that significant. Plus, I have to haul any bad-boy up the steps and install it, had a safe manufacturer suggest a lighter safe [costing less] as he discussed w/ me my needs even though it meant a smaller sale for him. Different co. than TSG so won't mention names here but like TSG, very helpful. Haven't made a final decision yet but I believe I'm going to balance safe weight [of prime importance], size [of significant importance], cost [not really that important] with the mission of the piece of equipment and the risk of it failing. Thanks again, |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 12:41:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BGENE]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guggep:
In CA you can not legally replace your high cap magazines - ever. Doesn't matter if insurance gives you the $30 market value you cant legally buy another one here or somewhere else and bring them in. If your are stolen or damaged beyond repair you are SOL. It is worth a serious premium to protect them. I went TL Rated for a very similar reason, a new rifle my Dad (Rest in Peace) gave me for my Birthday back in the 1970's. ETA: I also have a Daisy Model 25 in my TL Safe, I use to shoot it with my Grandfather in the 1960's 
|
|
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 1:31:51 PM EDT
[#7]
TSG....any input on the FV7240E5? I am pulling my hair out searching for this and trying to compare it to a Sun Welding 36T or Fortress FS36T. The literature claims that the 7240 has 9active and 5 deadbolts but the pictures of it only show 6 active bolts. I sure hope you can help me with my dilemma
Thanks a lot |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 2:16:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GSPguy:
TSG....any input on the FV7240E5? I am pulling my hair out searching for this and trying to compare it to a Sun Welding 36T or Fortress FS36T. The literature claims that the 7240 has 9active and 5 deadbolts but the pictures of it only show 6 active bolts. I sure hope you can help me with my dilemma Thanks a lot The literature is correct, the bolt count on the FV series safe is 14 total; 5 active on the locking edge, 2 on top, 2 on bottom and 5 deadbolts on the hinge side. See the picture on page 9 of the new 2014 Gunsafe Catalog HERE |
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 3:30:37 PM EDT
[#9]
What site did you order the light kit from? I've got a huge amsec Tl30 jewelry safe I bought new and
Bought their gun safe interior and door storage (about $1000 extra ) but I didn't know about the light kit or the cost? My safe is the darker color, inside and out, and it's a huuuuuuuggggge black hole... Thanks, GVJ |
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 4:31:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Hi TSG - Are there any prizes for pointing out errors in that new 2014 catalog?
Page 3 lists that the RF6528 comes with: "2 Stage Dual fire seals with silicone seal on door jamb and expandable Palusol™ seal on door." It didn't last year. I had to DIY my own Paulsol and hager smoke seals. Have things changed in the model makeup or can I claim the first error found in the new catalog? Thanks & FYI |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 4:35:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gvj1:
What site did you order the light kit from? I've got a huge amsec Tl30 jewelry safe I bought new and Bought their gun safe interior and door storage (about $1000 extra ) but I didn't know about the light kit or the cost? My safe is the darker color, inside and out, and it's a huuuuuuuggggge black hole... Thanks, GVJ We make that system. I designed it 2 years ago, but it's just now getting traction. Now everyone is trying to copy it. Just Google "Amsec's HIWL120 LED light kit" and you will hit a few sites that sell it online. Otherwise, check the amsecusa.com website and use the "Find Dealer" tool on the home page to find a retailer near you. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 4:44:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guggep:
Hi TSG - Are there any prizes for pointing out errors in that new 2014 catalog? Page 3 lists that the RF6528 comes with: "2 Stage Dual fire seals with silicone seal on door jamb and expandable Palusol™ seal on door." It didn't last year. I had to DIY my own Paulsol and hager smoke seals. Have things changed in the model makeup or can I claim the first error found in the new catalog? Thanks & FYI I don't think so. I'll check that Monday and let you know. Sales sometimes make changes without everyone knowing about it, usually because market pressure pushes the issue. The RF safe does not need seals to meet the 2-hour fire rating it bears. I think I have created a monster! if I am going to send out tokens of appreciation for literature blunders, they might need to be dialed back a bit to something a little less substantial. This could get expensive (and TSG might get in hot water). 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/11/2014 6:23:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Conju:
Congrats! Do you mind me asking why you went mechanical? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By d_rob1031:
TSG I appreciate all the info and the insight you have shared in this thread. I purchased a BF6030 today in granite with mechanical lock. Of course it will be a little while before it is delivered but I will be sure to post pictures when it gets here. As an aside... I will say one thing I noticed when I went back to the store was the gap between the shell and the door was much smaller than the other manufacturers in the same price range. It's probably been mentioned in here already but it really left an impression with me. Keep up the good work  Congrats! Do you mind me asking why you went mechanical? I'm a sucker for old, classic, mechanical looking stuff. I'm not in the mindset that an EMP will take out an electronic lock or they have reliability issues (TSG has convinced me via this thread). |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2014 1:46:57 AM EDT
[#14]
TSG,
Thank you (and AMSEC) for the extremely generous gift of the light kit. It arrived today. Like theblaze, I don't do pictures. However, I'll toast you just the same - with a measure of neat single malt and a P7M13. Jake |
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 1/12/2014 10:20:36 AM EDT
[#15]
new fire rating on this catalog...
Lifetime TL30 6” 3½” 120 min / 1850º Spy-Proof, Key-Locking Dial 5-Spoke Tan Pin-Dot Lifetime TL30x6 6” 3” 120 min / 1850º Spy-Proof, Key-Locking Dial 5-Spoke Tan Pin-Dot Lifetime TL30x6 6” 3” 120 min / 1850º Spy-Proof, Key-Locking Dial 5-Spoke Tan Pin-Dot notice these three lines on page 19... "in pdf pages" connects to... RFX703620 76" x 42" x 29¼" RFX582820 64" x 34" x 29¼" RF6528 72" x 35" x 29.5" 12-14-24-26-38 + 2 Gun 58 + 2 Gun 4,578 12-18-30 Gun 3,418 12-18-30 Gun 3,455 No 10 1½” Yes No 10 1½” Yes No 10 1½” Yes does this mean the rff703620 is just a tl30 now? or is the RF the tl30 and vice versa with the tl30x6 ;) *holds out hands* i already got a light kid with mine ;) maybe a dehumidifier ;) |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2014 11:22:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cj_the_pj:does this mean the rff703620 is just a tl30 now? or is the RF the tl30 and vice versa with the tl30x6 ;)
*holds out hands* i already got a light kid with mine ;) maybe a dehumidifier ;) You indeed found a typo. The first line, RFX is a TL30x6, last of the three, RF is a TL30. I will pass that along. Send me a PM with your shipping info |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2014 12:39:51 PM EDT
[#17]
I was the first to point out (and fix) the incredible pricing
 I have everything I need and really appreciate all the information you freely share with this forum.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2014 3:03:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BGENE:
I was the first to point out (and fix) the incredible pricing I have everything I need and really appreciate all the information you freely share with this forum.Sorry, you are correct. Send your shipping info and I'll do what I can to get something out. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/12/2014 4:23:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Sorry, you are correct. Send your shipping info and I'll do what I can to get something out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By BGENE:
I was the first to point out (and fix) the incredible pricing I have everything I need and really appreciate all the information you freely share with this forum.Sorry, you are correct. Send your shipping info and I'll do what I can to get something out. Thank you for the generous offer, I honestly have everything I need and then some. Having you on the board is like having an expert consultant who works for free. I do have a safe question, I will send you an IM. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2014 4:59:33 PM EDT
[#20]
TSG,
I'm looking at a TF5924 and am wondering if the door on these is removable? Ive heard the higher end safes have this feature but could not locate any info on the TF series. Thanks. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2014 5:42:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THEBOZ:
TSG, I'm looking at a TF5924 and am wondering if the door on these is removable? Ive heard the higher end safes have this feature but could not locate any info on the TF series. Thanks. Yes, you can lift the door off the hinge pins... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2014 5:43:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THEBOZ:
TSG, I'm looking at a TF5924 and am wondering if the door on these is removable? Ive heard the higher end safes have this feature but could not locate any info on the TF series. Thanks. You can, but TSG details in this thread why it is a bad idea to do so. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2014 6:07:36 PM EDT
[#23]
I know he spoke about the BF series being a bad idea but this safe comes in at 388 lbs. total. I assume the door is less than 100 lbs so a couple of guys should have no problem, correct?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/13/2014 7:32:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THEBOZ:
I know he spoke about the BF series being a bad idea but this safe comes in at 388 lbs. total. I assume the door is less than 100 lbs so a couple of guys should have no problem, correct? Yea, this is a WAY lighter safe door, but it can still bite with a vengeance. The hard part is that both hinge pins line up at the same time, so it's really difficult to get them lined up and started. If you have a pallet jack, hold the door vertical on some blocks and let the door down slowly so you can line it up and stab both pins at once. A dab of white lithium grease is a good idea at that time too, just for good measure. Sometimes they get a little dry after the welding boils out the lube. I don't know why this is so awkward, but people get hurt doing this, so be careful. |
|
|
|
SC, USA
|
Posted: 1/14/2014 8:59:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MarkBinSC]
[#25]
H TheSafeGuy
Thanks so much for all of the info, I am now a much more educated consumer of safes. I have a question with regards to buying a used safe, such as an AMSEC TF or FV series. What is the risk one has in buying a used safe from a stranger? If we contact each other back and forth via email, phone etc it is usually not too hard to figure out who someone is or lives. Would I be at risk that they can access my safe, or if the combination on an electronic lock is changed, is it changed forever? Is there some sort of master combination that always works with the lock? Thanks so much for the help and advice, we all appreciate it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/14/2014 10:32:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MarkBinSC: I have a question with regards to buying a used safe, such as an AMSEC TF or FV series. What is the risk one has in buying a used safe from a stranger? If we contact each other back and forth via email, phone etc it is usually not too hard to figure out who someone is or lives. Would I be at risk that they can access my safe, or if the combination on an electronic lock is changed, is it changed forever? Is there some sort of master combination that always works with the lock? If we are talking about a mechanical lock, simply change the combo. If you don't know how, then enlist a local Locksmith or safe tech. For e-locks, different game. I assume we are talking an AMSEC ESL10 or ESL5 lock. In both cases, you own the user code. Change it and the past is forgotten. There is the factory Code left to consider. That is in the factory, and safe there in a totally secure hole. The question is, did the old owner ever get a Locksmith in to use the code, and did that code end up in the hands of the old owner? Not much concern there, it's not likely. The Safe techs are a closed group, and don't share that with the safe owner unless maybe they are buds. In any event, if you ever get jacked, and there is no evidence of attack, then there is only one guy you need to suspect... A written receipt with his name and maybe his driver's license number for ID and you have some peace of mind. I wouldn't worry about it... |
|
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 1/15/2014 12:54:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MarkBinSC:
H TheSafeGuy Thanks so much for all of the info, I am now a much more educated consumer of safes. I have a question with regards to buying a used safe, such as an AMSEC TF or FV series. What is the risk one has in buying a used safe from a stranger? If we contact each other back and forth via email, phone etc it is usually not too hard to figure out who someone is or lives. Would I be at risk that they can access my safe, or if the combination on an electronic lock is changed, is it changed forever? Is there some sort of master combination that always works with the lock? Thanks so much for the help and advice, we all appreciate it. If its a mechanical lock, change the combo before you use it to store anything. You can call a locksmith to do it, or you can buy a change key and do it yourself. If its an E-lock, you can change the combo yourself. The master reset will always be in play, so the only way around that is to change the lock itself. The guy that bought one of my safes a couple months ago told me he was going to change the mechanical to an E-lock as soon as he got it home. I opened it up for him when he came to pick it up and he locked the safe dial in the open position. He told me he didnt even need the combo cause he already had the E-lock sitting at home!! Thats the best way to be sure, just change the whole lock! Not the cheapest, but the best! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2014 1:54:43 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm off to the SHOT Show.... see you there if you come!
|
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 1/16/2014 6:35:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Conju:
You can, but TSG details in this thread why it is a bad idea to do so. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By THEBOZ:
TSG, I'm looking at a TF5924 and am wondering if the door on these is removable? Ive heard the higher end safes have this feature but could not locate any info on the TF series. Thanks. You can, but TSG details in this thread why it is a bad idea to do so. I spent several hours paging through all the pages of this thread and couldn't find post[s] regarding removing a door to a safe, and moving it separately. Can you point me to the post[s]? Thanks, |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/16/2014 7:55:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R3drid3r:
I spent several hours paging through all the pages of this thread and couldn't find post[s] regarding removing a door to a safe, and moving it separately. Can you point me to the post[s]? Thanks, Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R3drid3r:
Originally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By THEBOZ:
TSG, I'm looking at a TF5924 and am wondering if the door on these is removable? Ive heard the higher end safes have this feature but could not locate any info on the TF series. Thanks. You can, but TSG details in this thread why it is a bad idea to do so. I spent several hours paging through all the pages of this thread and couldn't find post[s] regarding removing a door to a safe, and moving it separately. Can you point me to the post[s]? Thanks, I was mistaken. He shared the info in this thread |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 1/17/2014 3:22:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By R3drid3r:
Originally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By THEBOZ:
TSG, I'm looking at a TF5924 and am wondering if the door on these is removable? Ive heard the higher end safes have this feature but could not locate any info on the TF series. Thanks. You can, but TSG details in this thread why it is a bad idea to do so. I spent several hours paging through all the pages of this thread and couldn't find post[s] regarding removing a door to a safe, and moving it separately. Can you point me to the post[s]? Thanks, I was mistaken. He shared the info in this thread Thanks for the follow up. I had another safe manufacturer suggest the same thing as is suggested at the end of thread in the link: use a hydraulic floor jack on wheels and wood blocks to make the bottom of the door 'thicker and level' ... Seems like a guy on each side of the door balancing and a 3rd guy working the jack would make the installation manageable. Never having done it though, I'd sure like to hear what those with experience think? I wonder how are the doors installed at the time of manufacture? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/17/2014 7:04:51 PM EDT
[#32]
I had another safe manufacturer suggest the same thing as is suggested at the end of thread in the link: use a hydraulic floor jack on wheels and wood blocks to make the bottom of the door 'thicker and level' .. I know many people assume that a manufacturer knows what they're talking about because, well, they're the manufacturer. You would be shocked at how many manufacturers, including those in the safe industry, have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Never having done it though, I'd sure like to hear what those with experience think? I have a lot of experience removing safe doors. It is dangerous, you run the risk of damaging the safe and/or door, and it's a lot harder to put them back on than taking them off. The only time you will catch me pulling a safe door is if we have to make weight on an elevator. There is rarely a need to pull a door on a gun safe for any reason. |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 1/20/2014 10:31:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
I know many people assume that a manufacturer knows what they're talking about because, well, they're the manufacturer. You would be shocked at how many manufacturers, including those in the safe industry, have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I have a lot of experience removing safe doors. It is dangerous, you run the risk of damaging the safe and/or door, and it's a lot harder to put them back on than taking them off. The only time you will catch me pulling a safe door is if we have to make weight on an elevator. There is rarely a need to pull a door on a gun safe for any reason. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
I had another safe manufacturer suggest the same thing as is suggested at the end of thread in the link: use a hydraulic floor jack on wheels and wood blocks to make the bottom of the door 'thicker and level' .. I know many people assume that a manufacturer knows what they're talking about because, well, they're the manufacturer. You would be shocked at how many manufacturers, including those in the safe industry, have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Never having done it though, I'd sure like to hear what those with experience think? I have a lot of experience removing safe doors. It is dangerous, you run the risk of damaging the safe and/or door, and it's a lot harder to put them back on than taking them off. The only time you will catch me pulling a safe door is if we have to make weight on an elevator. There is rarely a need to pull a door on a gun safe for any reason. My safe is going up 1 1/2 flights of stairs and into a 2nd story condo. There is no elevator. There is a standard front door to negotiate. What is the best way to get the safe up the steps? Thanks |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2014 11:24:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R3drid3r:
My safe is going up 1 1/2 flights of stairs and into a 2nd story condo. There is no elevator. There is a standard front door to negotiate. What is the best way to get the safe up the steps? Thanks Moving companies have robotic and muscle powered dollies that have 3 wheels in a triangle and walk right up steps very easily. You may be able to rent one locally. You'll still want more than yourself doing it. And probably some straps to secure the dolly with in case you slip or have to let go the dolly doesn't go flying down the stairs. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2014 2:28:01 PM EDT
[#35]
For TSG or anyone who can help.
I have a local safe company quoting me a price on a BF6032. His website notes that he sells Amsec safes, and he has 2 TF's in his showroom, but he does not show up as an Amsec dealer on the website. Is this legitimate? He said he is waiting on a quote for freight shipping from his 'supplier'. Will I have issues if I ever need to have the safe serviced or warranty work done? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2014 12:11:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: a1abdj]
[#36]
My safe is going up 1 1/2 flights of stairs and into a 2nd story condo. There is no elevator. There is a standard front door to negotiate. What is the best way to get the safe up the steps? A motorized stair climbing dolly. Moving companies have robotic and muscle powered dollies that have 3 wheels in a triangle and walk right up steps very easily. You may be able to rent one locally. You'll still want more than yourself doing it If you can find a rental, be very careful. This is the type of equipment that requires experience to run correctly. A mistake can injure or kill somebody in the blink of an eye (similar to removing safe doors). I have a local safe company quoting me a price on a BF6032. His website notes that he sells Amsec safes, and he has 2 TF's in his showroom, but he does not show up as an Amsec dealer on the website. Is this legitimate? He said he is waiting on a quote for freight shipping from his 'supplier'. Will I have issues if I ever need to have the safe serviced or warranty work done? Probably fine. Many guys who sell this stuff aren't buying truck loads directly from AMSEC, and go through a distributor. The local safe company should be well equipped to service the safe in the future. |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 1/22/2014 9:02:57 AM EDT
[#37]
Is a dehumidifier needed if the safe is going to be placed in conditioned space like the closet of a spare bed room?
I live in Mo where AC is needed in the summer and heat in the winter. Where I'm putting the safe doesn't have electricity running to it. I'll probably be opening the safe about 3-4 times a month. Thanks |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2014 10:57:30 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
If we are talking about a mechanical lock, simply change the combo. If you don't know how, then enlist a local Locksmith or safe tech. For e-locks, different game. I assume we are talking an AMSEC ESL10 or ESL5 lock. In both cases, you own the user code. Change it and the past is forgotten. There is the factory Code left to consider. That is in the factory, and safe there in a totally secure hole. The question is, did the old owner ever get a Locksmith in to use the code, and did that code end up in the hands of the old owner? Not much concern there, it's not likely. The Safe techs are a closed group, and don't share that with the safe owner unless maybe they are buds. In any event, if you ever get jacked, and there is no evidence of attack, then there is only one guy you need to suspect... A written receipt with his name and maybe his driver's license number for ID and you have some peace of mind. I wouldn't worry about it... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By MarkBinSC: I have a question with regards to buying a used safe, such as an AMSEC TF or FV series. What is the risk one has in buying a used safe from a stranger? If we contact each other back and forth via email, phone etc it is usually not too hard to figure out who someone is or lives. Would I be at risk that they can access my safe, or if the combination on an electronic lock is changed, is it changed forever? Is there some sort of master combination that always works with the lock? If we are talking about a mechanical lock, simply change the combo. If you don't know how, then enlist a local Locksmith or safe tech. For e-locks, different game. I assume we are talking an AMSEC ESL10 or ESL5 lock. In both cases, you own the user code. Change it and the past is forgotten. There is the factory Code left to consider. That is in the factory, and safe there in a totally secure hole. The question is, did the old owner ever get a Locksmith in to use the code, and did that code end up in the hands of the old owner? Not much concern there, it's not likely. The Safe techs are a closed group, and don't share that with the safe owner unless maybe they are buds. In any event, if you ever get jacked, and there is no evidence of attack, then there is only one guy you need to suspect... A written receipt with his name and maybe his driver's license number for ID and you have some peace of mind. I wouldn't worry about it... Is it possible to change the use combo to the factory combo accidentally? |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/22/2014 11:21:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: S65B40]
[#39]
I had been curious about this myself, so I thought I would post it in case anyone else was interested. This is what I found for the weights and prices on the 4 gauge liner upgrade on the BF Series.
BF6024- $438..........173 lbs...........total weight: 893 lbs with liner. BF6032- $465..........205 lbs...........total weight: 1118 lbs with liner. BF6030- $507..........208 lbs...........total weight: 1244 lbs with liner. BF6636- $680..........282 lbs...........total weight: 1601 lbs with liner. BF7240- $787..........338 lbs...........total weight: 1923 lbs with liner. BF7250- $870..........415 lbs...........total weight: 2204 lbs with liner. |
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 1/22/2014 3:51:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: drifter_r6]
[#40]
My local dealer has been dragging their feet with this type of info. Thanks for the posting the 4ga upgrade info!
I really want to purchase locally but the lack of knowledge/customer service I'm encountering at the local dealers (so far visited 5) are driving me to the internet. The only shop I've encountered with some good customer service have highly inflated prices and are not willing to negotiate. I understand I'm paying for their knowledge and expertise but I've already done the research and know what I want. I just want a quote, in a decent time period, and good service. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2014 4:30:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gone_Fission:
Is it possible to change the use combo to the factory combo accidentally? Well, it's a million to one possibility you could do that. but it could happen. It would not be a problem though. The input is tested against the Factory Code first, then the User Code. So, if you did accidentally set the User Code to match the Factory Code, the first time you ran the code it would make a long warble tone, and the User Code would be reset back to 123456. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2014 4:35:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R3drid3r:
Is a dehumidifier needed if the safe is going to be placed in conditioned space like the closet of a spare bed room? I live in Mo where AC is needed in the summer and heat in the winter. Where I'm putting the safe doesn't have electricity running to it. I'll probably be opening the safe about 3-4 times a month. Thanks I recommend that you always take preventative measures. A desiccant pack is the right solution in your case. Just keep in mind you have to watch it and periodically dry it out. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2014 4:39:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rapidfire_85:
For TSG or anyone who can help. I have a local safe company quoting me a price on a BF6032. His website notes that he sells Amsec safes, and he has 2 TF's in his showroom, but he does not show up as an Amsec dealer on the website. Is this legitimate? He said he is waiting on a quote for freight shipping from his 'supplier'. Will I have issues if I ever need to have the safe serviced or warranty work done? Not all of our dealers are listed on the website. When we set up the Dealer Locator, there was an incomplete listing that we used to start off, and dealers that don't appear simply need to call and tell us they are missing and we'll add them to the list. So, yes, there are AMSEC dealers that don't appear in the listings. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2014 4:43:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d_rob1031:
Moving companies have robotic and muscle powered dollies that have 3 wheels in a triangle and walk right up steps very easily. You may be able to rent one locally. You'll still want more than yourself doing it. And probably some straps to secure the dolly with in case you slip or have to let go the dolly doesn't go flying down the stairs. Moving a safe up stairs is a deadly operation. You should really leave that to professionals. It is seriously dangerous. We have heard many stories of tragic results from failed attempts. There have been fatalities. It's not a trivial task... |
|
|
|
WA, USA
|
Posted: 1/22/2014 11:54:18 PM EDT
[#45]
does the 4 gauge liner change the internal dimensions of the BF6030?
and what are the internal dimensions of a BF6030?
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 1/23/2014 12:03:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Bani that thicker liner is only going to reduce the inner dimensions by about 3/16 ths of an inch on each of the sides and back.
My standard liner 66x36 is 36 inches wide measured on the outside. It is exactly 34 inches interior width. So as you can see with the thicker liner it's negligible at best. But considering the extra protection well worth it imho. |
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 1/23/2014 9:29:21 AM EDT
[#47]
@TSG- are you going to be doing a writeup on your opinion of the safes at SHOT? i saw one idea i liked but it starts me to thinking how much more do you put in a safe. and that is the USB style port going into the safe to store harddrives for home networks, it lets you securely access it, but protect it at the same time. it had too much going on though, im watching videos because i was unfortunately unable to make it.
-BK |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2014 11:17:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cj_the_pj:
@TSG- are you going to be doing a writeup on your opinion of the safes at SHOT? i saw one idea i liked but it starts me to thinking how much more do you put in a safe. and that is the USB style port going into the safe to store harddrives for home networks, it lets you securely access it, but protect it at the same time. it had too much going on though, im watching videos because i was unfortunately unable to make it. -BK I saw every competitor's safe at SHOT, but frankly there was nothing to rave about anywhere. My only comments would be negative, so I'll keep them to myself. It seems to me that if anything the general level of quality, security and fire protection is decaying in pursuit of lower price points. Our new offerings were the talk of the show. There were fewer Gunsafe players at the show this year than any time I can remember. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2014 11:21:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#49]
I can finally share with you the data that I have been holding on all of the fire testing we conducted in November and December. We acquired a few competitor's safes to establish equivalency while we were validating all of our own listings. The results were... well... shocking. Let the graph tell the tale....
|
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 1/23/2014 11:29:39 AM EDT
[#50]
does the bf resemble in anyway the cfx on the chart?
|
|
|
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
