So I first posted this in the wrong section. So here goes it. Trying to learn all I can. I’m in pursuit of my FFL then sot ASAP. So looking over all these forms I’m stumped on question “15” of the SOT application. It’s says “Gross receipts of 500k” use additional paper if needed. What does that mean? Thank you in advance.

If you do less than $500,000 annual sales revenue in your business applying for the SOT you qualify for the lower price of $500

So..... This is a pic of the line 15?
Haven’t done any real buisness yet? So what receipts do I supply if I check or not check that box?

Dont worry about SOT until you have been issued a FFL.

The SOT tax year starts 07/01, so unless you have some impending need, you do not want your SOT ASAP, you want it after 07/01.

That is true. But was just curious about Question 15? What to do there? Guess I just like having all my ducks in a row, doing my do diligence and understanding as much as I can.

Some of the best advice I can give wrt to FFL is read all instructions thoroughly. Almost all questions are answered in the instructions for the various forms. Instructions for question 15.

The reduced rates for certain tax classes, indicated with an asterisk (*) in
Section II, apply only to those taxpayers whose total gross receipts for
your most recent income tax year are less than $500,000 (not just receipts
relating to the activity subject to special occupational tax). However, if
you are a member of a controlled group as defined in section 5061(e)(3) of
the Internal Revenue Code, you are not eligible for this reduced rate unless
the total gross receipts for the entire group are less than $500,000. If your
business is beginning an activity subject to special tax for the first time, you
may qualify for a reduced rate in your initial tax year if gross receipts for
the business (or the entire control group, if a member of a control group)
were under $500,000 the previous year. If you are eligible for the reduced
rate, check item 15 in Section III and compute your tax using the reduced
rate in Section II.

Thank you. Couldn’t find the instructions.  Thank you.

No problem ("teach a man to fish"). Most forms have more instructions than fill-ins. 4473 is like 5-6 pages of instructions.....

YOU DA’MAN!!!!!!! Ty sir!!! :-)))

Not true, just got one for a new shop of ours. Good until 6/30/2020.

Yeah I have one good till 06/30/2020 too. It is not effective till 07/01/2019.

I was told that a new FFL could not get a SOT license until it’s held just a FFL for a few years. Any truth to this?

The individual telling me this made it out to be some sort of vetting process before they would let a new shop deal in NFA items.

I see what you’re putting down now. I just wanted to eliminate confusion that if he applied now it would end 6/30/19.

Sorry about the confusion.

Nope, pay tax and get it, but you need the FFL first.

Thanks, I have been thinking about getting into the business just to handle transfers for my area. Most dealers in my area charge crazy amounts for NFA transfers or there CS is terrible.

I admittedly charge a decent amount for NFA transfers. I’m holding the item for a year on my books and my insurance. I don’t understand people that do them for $25. But hey, if it works for them.

What is a crazy amount in your opinion?

I've seen $100+ at several stores

$75-100+ with poor CS

I was driving to QRF 2.5 hrs away for good CS and $50 transfers.

Ga Gun store 1 hour away is $50 and CS has been fair thus far. But in my immediate area 4-5 counties $100+

It seems like the better knowledgeable friendly home town type and few kitchen table dealers charge like $50 for NFA Transfers and I suppose the paperwork too (when Not an SS) depending on the situation.

The large more corporate type setup seems be like $100 for NFA Transfers etc.

I personally think $50 is not enuff for NFA Transfers AND Paperwork/Prints (If not SS) I think $75- $100 fee($100 personally) is a better price when I would have to.

1- Transfer in Your NFA Whatever
2- Help you with the forms/Prints etc
3- Hold your NFA doo-hickey for what looks for be almost a year still for F4 maybe longer

So that $25-$50 wouldn’t do it for me. Maybe $50 for the ones who were super slick and didn’t need help with any of the requisite forms and/or process.

I been an FFL for almost 3 years now and I was planning to get the SOT like towards end of my first year. But then backpage got shut down and that killed a lot of my new clients and sales in general.

So I pulled the plug on that which I was glad I did because active business went to crap. Just the basic clients were still doing good.

If I had to do it today I think I would have to doing a $50 fee just to generate business especially with the whole SS kiosk option and crap not allowing you to charge on their purchase/sold by me.

I do know/read that several/many small dealers make a decent amount of business on the whole SOT action. And several have suggested for me to just pay the lousy $500 to get he SOT but I just don’t see the current need because I don’t think I would see any real business. I think out of all my clients 1-2 asked about NFA Transfers.

Sorry don’t mean to drone on but just giving my idea on the fees and why.

ETA - and I do agree completely that c/s is really important because a lot of people don’t understand how the NFA process works and then time and care needed to make sure forms don’t get kicked back etc (again if not SS) but maybe that’s changed in the last year or so because of the whole SS Kiosk dealio especially since you could buy and send it to another dealer to be transferred in as well.

I charge $50 for silencers/AOW/SBR/SBS, but raised my machine gun fee to 5% of value. I have an insurance policy on customers firearms in my possession. Two machine guns in the safe equal the value of everything else.

Every time I read about Backpage destroying your business growth I shake my head in amazement.
Amazement that anyone, anywhere would have used the smarmiest website possible to advertise gun sales. Gun sales next to ads for massage parlors, teenage escorts and the like. It's the online version of writing "Glock for sale $500otd" on the men's room wall right next to "Trixie 2for$10 blowjobs".
I get that it was an Arizona thing, but oddly I've never heard of any other gun dealer in another city selling on Backpage.

Maybe the clients/sales you were getting from Backpage were the worst possible clients/sales. Elevate your marketing and you elevate your clientele and sales.

I don't advertise one bit, I never sell on gun forums, I rarely sell on GunBroker and I only do five gunshows a year. Yet business improves every year.

Ten silencer transfers @ $50 will pay your SOT, as would SELLING two or three.
You might take a loss the first year, but NFA brings in customers that you might never have had.

Do you cut any of your regular NFA transfers customers a break? Like the guys who buy 3+ or more a year?

I think the BP thing was a big thing for Arizona. Atleast i did get some clients from there and i still continue to get some mainly from like online sellers and their customers pick me as the transfer dealer. Ive been known to cut some seriously slack on the transfer fees for regular customers with multiple transfer especially if you got our CCW which makes it a breeze.

Yeah  i know the backpage thing is kinda lame, but like you mentioned maybe its an arizona thing is probably correct. I remember seeing alot of home based ffl dealers on there and also some shops too.  you are right about the maybe some of the customers were crappy off backpage but i was new at that time and selling all sorts of stuff at like few bucks over cost to just introduce the business at that time. I did try to advertise here and there after their closure but honestly the impact wasnt as great. I DO think the demise of BP did kill off several homebased ffls and maybe a store or two but the stores not from just Backpage only, but possibly a combination of the closure and who knows what else.

At this time, im happy with the transfer aspect of my ffl business. Even though i cut some deals on the fees all the time. Its enough work to keep me busy and occupied at my business location (ffl is not the primary business here)

I keep thinking about the SOT thing on and off, because i think it was you a while back who said the same thing about 10 transfers would pay the SOT fee for the year. I dont think its the fee that bothers me. But more of the actual possibility of business not being generated enuff with it. YEa $500 aint shit honestly but i just cant seem to wrap my head around it.

The good thing (i think) is that the closest actual NFA Dealer to me is about 5.7 miles away and i think they are a 07 licensee so their business might not be the "greatest" for NFA for customers etc. The other one is exactly the same distance the opposite way. Which is a large private corp type dealer with 2 locations. They got a real nice setup with their stores. Blows away alot of the stores i seen. They got like a serious range in there thats used by like all the law enforcement around here. anyways, if i remember correctly there was another ffl that was closer than both of these but im not sure if they are still running or not. Mainly because i used the SilencerShop Dealer locator to find the closest NFA Dealer since i cant seem to think of any other way to find a list.

Theres a pawn shop (well like several. yes this place is ghetto as shit) like less than a mile away and theres another one (corp) like almost directly across from them. Going the opposite way theres like 2-3 more pawn shops but around 2 miles or so. I dont think any of these places deal in NFA as ive visited them prior to see what they do and didnt notice anything to tell me they did.

Ill have to rethink this whole SOT thing seriously since the application period is coming up for the following year. Last year same time, i filled out the app, wrote the check and then last min decided to forego it.
On a plus note, last year i did not have the SilencerShop Dealer info but this year i did receive it so i have a better idea on what that arrangement might bring per sale/transfer etc. The other reason i didnt go with it last time was the fact that they changed it up with the NFA process and added the backround check during the form review process. I think that current time it was in a cluster fuck of a situation with the fbi check putting shit on hold for people like crazy and that kinda made me think like wtf.

A break?
$50 is the break.
That $50 covers my time, my insurance, my SOT, my alarm system, my safes, my sitting on that firearm for 9 months to over two years...…and is a bargain.

ATF doesn't discount the $200 tax stamp when you transfer more than one in a year either.

Man this title/topic derailed very fast!!!!!! Sots are entitled to charge what they want. If you don’t like it go somewhere else!!! End of story!!! Let’s move on!!!

Thanks