User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
VA, USA
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Posted: 5/24/2022 10:21:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OlympicArmsFan]
I have been looking at buying a Springfield Hellion VHS 2, but after watching a few YouTube videos, I just can't bring myself to fork over the money. I own three bullpup rifles. Tavor Sar, X95 and a NATO Aug. These three rifles have replaced my AR's and AK as my go to rifles. The look and some of the features of the Hellion had me hooked. It looked like a very promising rifle that would fit me well, but did nothing different than my other bullpups. I had my credit card in hand and ready, but something change. I just don't feel like it is for me now.
Was anyone else excited about this rifle and have now changed their mind? Can you talk me back into this rifle? I keep watching videos when I see them. I want to love this rifle. I want to feel like its one that I have to have and need. Right now, I have lost that loving feeling. |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 10:23:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vectorsc: Non rotation socket fixed. Buy noveske flush mount qd sling swivel. Either thread the existing QD hole as 1/2x32 TPI, or just drill the fucker like I did and install the noveske backing plate. It fits the stock hollow perfectly. $18 well spent - now its steel and antirotation. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/21A4DC6B-6D48-4BF9-86B8-E1CF45B8A1C5_jpe-3063995.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/A10FE111-8B59-40D4-9B05-8062B22816A2_jpe-3063996.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/566E77FD-E3DB-4D62-9000-029059CDA6B7_jpe-3063998.JPG Hell yea! So just a 1/2" drill bit to drill it out to diameter and it installed w/ no issues? Doesn't interfere w/ the bolt at all? |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 11:01:33 PM EDT
[#2]
I used a step bit from harbor freight. cuts really clean and straight for this type of thing.
If I had to do it again I would thread the hole - its thick enough to work. The backer plate fits exactly in the space in the back of the stock like it was made for it though. https://noveske.com/products/flush-qd-sling-mount/ |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/19/2023 12:19:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vectorsc: Non rotation socket fixed. Buy noveske flush mount qd sling swivel. Either thread the existing QD hole as 1/2x32 TPI, or just drill the fucker like I did and install the noveske backing plate. It fits the stock hollow perfectly. $18 well spent - now its steel and antirotation. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/21A4DC6B-6D48-4BF9-86B8-E1CF45B8A1C5_jpe-3063995.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/A10FE111-8B59-40D4-9B05-8062B22816A2_jpe-3063996.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/566E77FD-E3DB-4D62-9000-029059CDA6B7_jpe-3063998.JPG Excellent! That may be the solution we need. |
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Posted: 12/19/2023 11:18:32 AM EDT
[#4]
Seems to work good so far. I hear dont overtighten it. You use a sling swivel to screw it down.
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Posted: 12/19/2023 11:46:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vectorsc:
Seems to work good so far. I hear dont overtighten it. You use a sling swivel to screw it down. |
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Posted: 12/19/2023 12:05:40 PM EDT
[#6]
It has some dried up yellow, magpul style, on there. Seems to hold really well in my testing and because the shape of the stock underneath is square the lock plate doesn't want to move really. I suspect its gonna work great.
I bet noveske wonders why they sold 200 of these things this week lol. Manticore might want to offer them in their store / have it as an upgrade option for folks. |
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Posted: 12/19/2023 12:19:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vectorsc:
It has some dried up yellow, magpul style, on there. Seems to hold really well in my testing and because the shape of the stock underneath is square the lock plate doesn't want to move really. I suspect its gonna work great. I bet noveske wonders why they sold 200 of these things this week lol. Manticore might want to offer them in their store / have it as an upgrade option for folks. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/20/2023 12:18:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pair_of_ACES]
[#8]
I wish we got the VHS marked version here in the states like they apparently do in Europe. Here's a link to what sure as hell appears to be our exact same 'Hellion' imported rifle, with BCM grip, MLOK handguard, etc but marked 'VHS' and HS Produkt instead of cheesy Springfield Hellion
https://www.austriaarms.com/index_2.php?request_id_1=5636&limit_01=0&search_text=&stay=1 And as far as the sling swivel thing, my basic ass just looped a zip tie from the sling mount itself to the little useless eyelet on the VHS stock that keeps the thing from rotating into an undesirable position. Doesn’t seem to interfere with usage of the weapon in either the aimed or slung positions 
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Posted: 12/20/2023 2:06:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: I wish we got the VHS marked version here in the states like they apparently do in Europe. Here's a link to what sure as hell appears to be our exact same 'Hellion' imported rifle, with BCM grip, MLOK handguard, etc but marked 'VHS' and HS Produkt instead of cheesy Springfield Hellion https://www.austriaarms.com/index_2.php?request_id_1=5636&limit_01=0&search_text=&stay=1 And as far as the sling swivel thing, my basic ass just looped a zip tie from the sling mount itself to the little useless eyelet on the VHS stock that keeps the thing from rotating into an undesirable position. Doesn’t seem to interfere with usage of the weapon in either the aimed or slung positions https://i.ibb.co/Q6rZVDb/055-CC8-C2-BBA3-4-CAF-B466-3-DE67466-DFC4.jpg That's an innovative solution to use a quick release sling and zip tie it to the actual sling eyelet to make sure it doesn't release. |
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Posted: 12/20/2023 11:37:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: I wish we got the VHS marked version here in the states like they apparently do in Europe. Here's a link to what sure as hell appears to be our exact same 'Hellion' imported rifle, with BCM grip, MLOK handguard, etc but marked 'VHS' and HS Produkt instead of cheesy Springfield Hellion https://www.austriaarms.com/index_2.php?request_id_1=5636&limit_01=0&search_text=&stay=1 And as far as the sling swivel thing, my basic ass just looped a zip tie from the sling mount itself to the little useless eyelet on the VHS stock that keeps the thing from rotating into an undesirable position. Doesn’t seem to interfere with usage of the weapon in either the aimed or slung positions https://i.ibb.co/Q6rZVDb/055-CC8-C2-BBA3-4-CAF-B466-3-DE67466-DFC4.jpg  Run a paracord ... I use a paracord loop in both of the Hellion's eyelets with a BFG u-loop ... muuuuch more secure setup ... I don't trust any QD sling attachments ... too many just fail ... |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2023 5:25:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Run a paracord ... I use a paracord loop in both of the Hellion's eyelets with a BFG u-loop ... muuuuch more secure setup ... I don't trust any QD sling attachments ... too many just fail ... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Originally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: I wish we got the VHS marked version here in the states like they apparently do in Europe. Here's a link to what sure as hell appears to be our exact same 'Hellion' imported rifle, with BCM grip, MLOK handguard, etc but marked 'VHS' and HS Produkt instead of cheesy Springfield Hellion https://www.austriaarms.com/index_2.php?request_id_1=5636&limit_01=0&search_text=&stay=1 And as far as the sling swivel thing, my basic ass just looped a zip tie from the sling mount itself to the little useless eyelet on the VHS stock that keeps the thing from rotating into an undesirable position. Doesn’t seem to interfere with usage of the weapon in either the aimed or slung positions https://i.ibb.co/Q6rZVDb/055-CC8-C2-BBA3-4-CAF-B466-3-DE67466-DFC4.jpg Run a paracord ... I use a paracord loop in both of the Hellion's eyelets with a BFG u-loop ... muuuuch more secure setup ... I don't trust any QD sling attachments ... too many just fail ... I had the QD sling loop on my AUG spontaneously disassemble itself at the range, all its little bb's got loose. Thankfully not while the rifle was slung. Never trusted them since. I now back them up with a loop of paracord or kevlar as backup. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2023 9:09:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Run a paracord ... I use a paracord loop in both of the Hellion's eyelets with a BFG u-loop ... muuuuch more secure setup ... I don't trust any QD sling attachments ... too many just fail ... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Originally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: I wish we got the VHS marked version here in the states like they apparently do in Europe. Here's a link to what sure as hell appears to be our exact same 'Hellion' imported rifle, with BCM grip, MLOK handguard, etc but marked 'VHS' and HS Produkt instead of cheesy Springfield Hellion https://www.austriaarms.com/index_2.php?request_id_1=5636&limit_01=0&search_text=&stay=1 And as far as the sling swivel thing, my basic ass just looped a zip tie from the sling mount itself to the little useless eyelet on the VHS stock that keeps the thing from rotating into an undesirable position. Doesn’t seem to interfere with usage of the weapon in either the aimed or slung positions https://i.ibb.co/Q6rZVDb/055-CC8-C2-BBA3-4-CAF-B466-3-DE67466-DFC4.jpg Run a paracord ... I use a paracord loop in both of the Hellion's eyelets with a BFG u-loop ... muuuuch more secure setup ... I don't trust any QD sling attachments ... too many just fail ... @Thehun06 Might sound like a dumb question but what the best method/knot for creating a small paracord loop? Would a setup like this work and fit through the eyelet? https://manticorearms.com/product/2-point-carbine-sling/ I initially planned to loop a BFG uloop through the eyelet but it’s a hair too big |
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Posted: 12/21/2023 9:54:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: thehun06]
[#13]
@Pair_of_ACES
I have a bunch of B&T paracord sling loops that I run through the eyelet then attach a BFG u-loop ... super comfy ... problem with QD sling attachments is two fold ... one is the mount and the other is the actual QD sling attachment ... before I was wise ... I didn't care too much and it almost made me bang up a $4k rifle ... so now all I run is BFG components or Proctor ... But if I were to build one ... I'd take inspiration from the IDF: CLICK HERE 100% you could use a sling from Manticore or one of my favs ... the Proctor Sling ... CLICK HERE |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2023 10:12:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Excellent post. Thank you.
@manticore_arms Are you able to tell me if your para cord sling will fit through the factory eyelets of the VHS? |
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Posted: 12/21/2023 10:37:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: Excellent post. Thank you. @manticore_arms Are you able to tell me if your para cord sling will fit through the factory eyelets of the VHS? Can confirm. I couldn't get the HK clip thru so I ran a paracord loop thru the factory stock. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2023 11:15:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RottenPumpkin: Can confirm. I couldn't get the HK clip thru so I ran a paracord loop thru the factory stock. https://i.postimg.cc/NfmZk8FN/20231221-093402.jpg Cool thanks. Is there a YouTube video or other good tutorial on the most durable type of knot method for the little paracord loops? Only two of my long guns rely on QD mounts, all the rest are fixed sling points. After reading about these issues I intend to move entirely away from the QD setup |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2023 12:04:24 AM EDT
[#17]
Finally got an optic on this thing. Great balance of size and capability.
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Posted: 12/24/2023 4:52:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: Finally got an optic on this thing. Great balance of size and capability. https://i.ibb.co/JnDbRdV/17996-A9-D-AE76-4-D97-A5-B6-DDA03-FB9-CDA7.jpg How well does the remote switch work in that location? How specifically do you activate and, more importantly, avoid accidental activations? Thx! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2023 10:22:08 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomac: How well does the remote switch work in that location? How specifically do you activate and, more importantly, avoid accidental activations? Thx! I was worried about it initially, but it hasn’t been a problem so far, at least in messing around the property doing some basic shooting drills with it. The only real drawback is that you couldn’t prop the gun on something to shoot, like say a barricade or the hood of a car. The main reason I ended up putting it there is because mounting the light on the left hand side got in the way of my sling mount (QD) but after the above discussion about QD failures I’m going to move it to the eyelet. This will likely result in the light moving back over to the Left side where it will simply be thumb activated. |
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Posted: 12/24/2023 11:31:39 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: I was worried about it initially, but it hasn’t been a problem so far, at least in messing around the property doing some basic shooting drills with it. The only real drawback is that you couldn’t prop the gun on something to shoot, like say a barricade or the hood of a car. The main reason I ended up putting it there is because mounting the light on the left hand side got in the way of my sling mount (QD) but after the above discussion about QD failures I’m going to move it to the eyelet. This will likely result in the light moving back over to the Left side where it will simply be thumb activated. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: Originally Posted By Tomac: How well does the remote switch work in that location? How specifically do you activate and, more importantly, avoid accidental activations? Thx! I was worried about it initially, but it hasn’t been a problem so far, at least in messing around the property doing some basic shooting drills with it. The only real drawback is that you couldn’t prop the gun on something to shoot, like say a barricade or the hood of a car. The main reason I ended up putting it there is because mounting the light on the left hand side got in the way of my sling mount (QD) but after the above discussion about QD failures I’m going to move it to the eyelet. This will likely result in the light moving back over to the Left side where it will simply be thumb activated. 
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Posted: 12/24/2023 12:49:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#21]
So I mounted a similar light in a similar location but I put the pressure pad on the support hand side. With it mounted there, I can activate it w/ the meaty section of my palm underneath the thumb as I grip the VFG. I also have a cover on my light so in the event of an light ND, it doesn't actually show. I'm not happy w/ the mounting option for the pressure pad in that location though. It's just being held on w/ the adhesive strip that comes w/ Streamlights. I would prefer either an m-lok mount or some way to zip ties it to the hand guard. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas, I'm all ears.
Ignore the coyote sling. It's the first one I've made and it'll be going to a friend. I just received the OD green strap to make one for this set up.  
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2023 1:46:56 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: So I mounted a similar light in a similar location but I put the pressure pad on the support hand side. With it mounted there, I can activate it w/ the meaty section of my palm underneath the thumb as I grip the VFG. I also have a cover on my light so in the event of an light ND, it doesn't actually show. I'm not happy w/ the mounting option for the pressure pad in that location though. It's just being held on w/ the adhesive strip that comes w/ Streamlights. I would prefer either an m-lok mount or some way to zip ties it to the hand guard. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas, I'm all ears. Ignore the coyote sling. It's the first one I've made and it'll be going to a friend. I just received the OD green strap to make one for this set up. https://i.imgur.com/zOVrIS2.jpg https://i.imgur.com/vsp66oc.jpg Not sure how much help this is, since it’s a different location on the handguard, but I used the mini-zips that came with the Streamlight to fix the pressure pad / cord to the handguard in addition to the adhesive itself. 
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/31/2023 3:32:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Vectorsc, what position is your gas regulator when shooting with the Huxwrx?
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Posted: 12/31/2023 5:33:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Y'all let Troy with Midwest Industries know you're interested in a rail if they make it in my thread here in their industry board.
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Posted: 12/31/2023 8:12:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kisara: Vectorsc, what position is your gas regulator when shooting with the Huxwrx? I have a Huxwrx Flow 556K and run the rifle in the suppressed setting. |
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Posted: 12/31/2023 9:04:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Well, I had a lapse in judgment and replaced the factory flash hider on my 20” with a Vortex so I could use my Halo and retain the bayonet capability.
Still overtorqued.  But I started with heat and a 3’ breaker bar and had it off pretty quickly this time. Didn’t need to pull the barrel from the receiver either.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/3/2024 5:40:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Finally found a local fun shop with a couple of bullpups in stock. They had an X95 and a Hellion. They had both of them for sale as well as for rent.
I didn't have time for the range that day, so I just manhandled the ones behind the counter. It's hard to explain, but the Hellion just felt 'right'. It felt like it was made for me. My main concern before I picked it up was the length of pull, but it felt fine. The X95 just felt awkward to me. One thing on the Hellion I did not like at all - the safety. Since the newer ones come with a different safety, I'll just have to try to get a newer one. If I get a good enough deal on an older one, I could just get the Manticore Arms safety. I plan on going back and renting both just to be sure, but I feel like I already know which one I'll be getting. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2024 5:05:42 PM EDT
[#28]
You won’t regret it
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Posted: 1/9/2024 3:14:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#29]
Just got a shipping notice from Manticore. Since I haven't ordered anything recently outside of the buttpad, I'm assuming it's the updated buffer.
ETA: Yep, just got an explanatory email from Sven. Thanks for the great customer service, Sven! |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 3:51:54 PM EDT
[#30]
 Is This the Most Accurate Modern Combat Rifle? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2024 4:12:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote History5 round groups. How cute 
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Posted: 1/9/2024 4:26:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: 5 round groups. How cute I'd love to see them do 77gr OTM or handloads tailored to the rifle. But still not bad results |
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Posted: 1/12/2024 2:53:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Sadly, a Brass Goat almost but not quite fits the VHS-2 mag-well.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2024 5:04:28 PM EDT
[#34]
Soon I will be pulling the trigger and finally getting a Hellion. I want the 20 inch model. Do you guys think they will announce the FDE, OD, Gray colors for the 18 and 20 inches? Maybe at Shot Show?
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Posted: 1/13/2024 12:33:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sleazy-E: Soon I will be pulling the trigger and finally getting a Hellion. I want the 20 inch model. Do you guys think they will announce the FDE, OD, Gray colors for the 18 and 20 inches? Maybe at Shot Show? They're waiting for you to buy one before they announce new colors for the 20 inchers. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 6:16:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sleazy-E]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: They're waiting for you to buy one before they announce new colors for the 20 inchers. That thought has crossed my mind. And the fact that I typed that question out and hit post will surely seal the deal. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 2:09:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Paulie771
How do you like that magwell? I just orded the same one. Does it work well? Mag changes easier? |
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Posted: 1/13/2024 2:47:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigdave73: Paulie771 How do you like that magwell? I just orded the same one. Does it work well? Mag changes easier? Absolutely! Definitely go ahead and get the extended mag release as well as the extended bolt release. Those three items combined with the technique described in this thread (page 15, post #20) make mag changes simple and fast. Essentially use a beer can grip and insert the mag, then use your thumb as a pivot and rotate your hand around it so that the fingers of your support hand point up or all the way back, then use your thumb to push the bolt release to the rear. Very quick and easy once you've done it a few times. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 8:06:51 PM EDT
[#39]
Roger that. Thanks.
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IA, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2024 5:39:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: The parts for the next uograde are in our shop but we are dtill getting caught up from the move from Illinois to South Carolina. I hope to have it on the webstore in the next 30 days. Sven Manticore Arms Your stuff is the best, dude. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/4/2024 1:05:55 AM EDT
[#41]
In the market for a Hellion. Is this a good deal?
Hellion Single point sling Vortex crossfire red dot 2 - gen 3 p-mags $200 Alexo readywear voucher $1588 https://lockedloaded.com/product/sprgfld-hellion-556-16-30rd-blk |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/4/2024 1:53:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Punisher: In the market for a Hellion. Is this a good deal? Hellion Single point sling Vortex crossfire red dot 2 - gen 3 p-mags $200 Alexo readywear voucher $1588 https://lockedloaded.com/product/sprgfld-hellion-556-16-30rd-blk Not a bad price, but the extras listed ( sling,red dot, $200 voucher) are what made up the Gear Up rebate that ended Jan 31 per everything I’ve seen. Seems rather scammy to list that as included cause unless the rebate got extended, you likely ain’t getting that stuff if you buy now. I bought a 20” in time for the rebate and while approval is almost instant after you submit the online form, you still gotta wait for them to send them, they don’t come with the rifle. |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 6:07:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Another member on this site bought something from those folks recently. They were very slow in shipping his order, so just be aware of that.
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Posted: 2/4/2024 8:31:09 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Punisher: In the market for a Hellion. Is this a good deal? Hellion Single point sling Vortex crossfire red dot 2 - gen 3 p-mags $200 Alexo readywear voucher $1588 https://lockedloaded.com/product/sprgfld-hellion-556-16-30rd-blk $1,615 w/no sales tax: GunZoneDeals |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/4/2024 10:22:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Punisher]
[#45]
Thanks guys! It sucks that I missed the gear up deal.
Their website states that it’s an 8-14 day lead time before they ship. I think I’ll go with the link provided by Tomac in the above post. It took me a while to decide between the Hellion, AUG, and X95.They are all relatively close in price. I narrowed it down to the Hellion, and AUG (mostly because of accuracy). The AUG’s ergos, stocks cracking (I know it’s somewhat isolated) etc. made me choose the Hellion. I briefly had a KelTec, and a Tavor SAR that I really didn’t care for. |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 12:14:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Punisher: and a Tavor SAR that I really didn’t care for. Previous SAR owner here, I do like my Hellion more than the tavor for sure. |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 12:18:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Previous SAR owner here, I do like my Hellion more than the tavor for sure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 74novaman: Originally Posted By The_Punisher: and a Tavor SAR that I really didn’t care for. Previous SAR owner here, I do like my Hellion more than the tavor for sure. I have a Tavor and the X95, the more I use the X95 the more I like it. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2024 10:49:04 AM EDT
[#48]
 Bullpup Haters vs The Springfield Hellion |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 11:45:02 AM EDT
[#49]
So is the trigger really that bad?
And in the above video seems like they are just running the wrong height optic which lead to some of there complaint's. |
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Posted: 2/9/2024 12:37:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors:
So is the trigger really that bad? And in the above video seems like they are just running the wrong height optic which lead to some of there complaint's. And I agree w/ you, using a cantilever mount on a rifle that doesn't need it and then bitching about height-over-bore seems disingenuous to me. Those guys know that you can use regular scope rings to lower it some. However, the HoB is very high, even w/ proper rings. I believe it is higher than a red dot mounted to a carry handle on an AR, but I haven't measure it myself. |
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