User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
VA, USA
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Posted: 5/24/2022 10:21:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OlympicArmsFan]
I have been looking at buying a Springfield Hellion VHS 2, but after watching a few YouTube videos, I just can't bring myself to fork over the money. I own three bullpup rifles. Tavor Sar, X95 and a NATO Aug. These three rifles have replaced my AR's and AK as my go to rifles. The look and some of the features of the Hellion had me hooked. It looked like a very promising rifle that would fit me well, but did nothing different than my other bullpups. I had my credit card in hand and ready, but something change. I just don't feel like it is for me now.
Was anyone else excited about this rifle and have now changed their mind? Can you talk me back into this rifle? I keep watching videos when I see them. I want to love this rifle. I want to feel like its one that I have to have and need. Right now, I have lost that loving feeling. |
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Posted: 12/7/2023 10:59:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Since I completely overlooked it when I bought my ODG version, if you purchase one between 11/1/23 and 1/31/24, make sure you put in for the rebate. Looks like you get a Vortex Crossfire 2 moa Crossfire red dot, a mag, a single point sling, and $200 credit for Springfield clothing (meh). The Crossfire goes for $150 and seems to be a decent little sight for the money. I don't like single points but maybe you can flip it or give it to a new shooter, and free mags are always good. You just need the S/N and receipt from purchase.
Springfield rebate page. |
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Posted: 12/7/2023 10:37:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Are the sockets anti-rotational? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: @MAKAK47 Great idea! Here you go, and I will also add it to the product pictures on our webstore. Sven Manticore Armshttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Helllion_Curved_Buttpad_13-3051039.jpg Are the sockets anti-rotational? The sockets are not anti-rotational. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 12/7/2023 10:38:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: Good stuff! So if someone has an 18” or 20” barrel model, could they get a completely flat version without worrying about SBR since the OAL in longer than the 16” model? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: @MAKAK47 Great idea! Here you go, and I will also add it to the product pictures on our webstore. Sven Manticore Armshttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Helllion_Curved_Buttpad_13-3051039.jpg Good stuff! So if someone has an 18” or 20” barrel model, could they get a completely flat version without worrying about SBR since the OAL in longer than the 16” model? You could in theory remove the rubber pad to shorten it about another 1/2" or so, but there are hollow pockets underneath the pad to lighten the aluminum body, so I would not recommend it. Sven Manticore Arms |
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USA
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Posted: 12/8/2023 3:21:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: You could in theory remove the rubber pad to shorten it about another 1/2" or so, but there are hollow pockets underneath the pad to lighten the aluminum body, so I would not recommend it. Sven Manticore Arms Oh I meant just a flat back for those lengths, I wouldn’t modify this |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 3:27:17 PM EDT
[#5]
 Attached File Attached File Attached FileFirst review take: It seems good. A little lighter than the factory part but probably the same with the springs moved over. Lop went from 16" to 15 3/8".  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 4:29:33 PM EDT
[#6]
The factory LOP didn’t bother me much at all, but damn this Manticore stock makes it so much more comfortable! Definitely worth the purchase, glad I just grabbed one to try out. Can’t wait to hit the range with it, and so far my magpul sling qd attachment is fine
 Attached File Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 12/9/2023 4:39:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By patswin3: The factory LOP didn’t bother me much at all, but damn this Manticore stock makes it so much more comfortable! Definitely worth the purchase, glad I just grabbed one to try out. Can’t wait to hit the range with it, and so far my magpul sling qd attachment is fine https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/82995/IMG_2157_jpeg-3054651.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/82995/IMG_2156_jpeg-3054652.JPG Looking forward to your results! |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2023 4:39:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By patswin3: The factory LOP didn’t bother me much at all, but damn this Manticore stock makes it so much more comfortable! Definitely worth the purchase, glad I just grabbed one to try out. Can’t wait to hit the range with it, and so far my magpul sling qd attachment is fine https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/82995/IMG_2157_jpeg-3054651.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/82995/IMG_2156_jpeg-3054652.JPG Looks great, I just wish that it was anti-rotational for the sling! At least with the included sockets, they can be modified, but since this is just a hole in steel, I don't thing that I could use the JB weld trick. Therefore, I'll just have to stick with the standard stock. Rotational sling sockets are the children of satan. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/9/2023 5:00:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Looks great, I just wish that it was anti-rotational for the sling! At least with the included sockets, they can be modified, but since this is just a hole in steel, I don't thing that I could use the JB weld trick. Therefore, I'll just have to stick with the standard stock. Rotational sling sockets are the children of satan. It’s 2023, almost 2024, any QD should be anti-rotation these days. It’s unfortunate companies haven’t gotten with the times. It’s not like it costs any more. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 5:02:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Looks great, I just wish that it was anti-rotational for the sling! At least with the included sockets, they can be modified, but since this is just a hole in steel, I don't thing that I could use the JB weld trick. Therefore, I'll just have to stick with the standard stock. Rotational sling sockets are the children of satan. I wonder if it’s possible to drill through and use something like the PMM ps90 qd sling mount. If losing the anti rotational bothers me, I may have to experiment |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 6:40:11 PM EDT
[#11]
So...when I hang the manticore stock off the pin hole its an inch shorter for sure. Interesting.
That said, the comfort is pretty high on this. Much higher than factory. Arguably it fixes the rear end ergos dead stop. Now...I wonder if the factory steel QD will come off the factory stock and go on here with a spot of drilling lol. |
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Posted: 12/9/2023 9:16:56 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 12/10/2023 12:27:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By patswin3: The factory LOP didn’t bother me much at all, but damn this Manticore stock makes it so much more comfortable! Definitely worth the purchase, glad I just grabbed one to try out. Can’t wait to hit the range with it, and so far my magpul sling qd attachment is fine https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/82995/IMG_2157_jpeg-3054651.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/82995/IMG_2156_jpeg-3054652.JPG Sorry for being off topic but you have to tell us about hour ODG X95 SBR. That is sick! |
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Posted: 12/11/2023 8:47:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#14]
Received my Manticore buttstock today. Install was simple and straight forward. Was concerned about the all black stock w/ the ODG furniture but I think it looks just fine. Did some musical optics and put a Holosun AEMS green reticle on their short mount and it is the perfect height. All I need to do is get a light (hopefully someone will gift one for Christmas), and this thing will be ready go.
This buttstock really does make the rifle feel better. It's a really good product and upgrade. Highly recommend it and all three of the Lunartech parts. 
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USA
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Posted: 12/11/2023 9:18:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: Received my Manticore buttstock today. Install was simple and straight forward. Was concerned about the all black stock w/ the ODG furniture but I think it looks just fine. Did some musical optics and put a Holosun AEMS green reticle on their short mount and it is the perfect height. All I need to do is get a light (hopefully someone will gift one for Christmas), and this thing will be ready go. This buttstock really does make the rifle feel better. It's a really good product and upgrade. Highly recommend it and all three of the Lunartech parts. https://i.imgur.com/gOfOGfQ.jpg The black on green actually looks pretty good! Man I hope they bring in ODG 20” models |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 11:16:55 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: @MAKAK47 Great idea! Here you go, and I will also add it to the product pictures on our webstore. Sven Manticore Armshttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Helllion_Curved_Buttpad_13-3051039.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Originally Posted By MAKAK47: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Alright boys, you have been very patient, and our new Hellion Curved Buttpad is now up for sale on our webstore. Aluminum construction, it reduces the length of pull 1", adds 1" of length to the toe, plus the curved shape makes it lock into your shoulder much better than the OEM buttpad. Sven Manticore Arms https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Hellion_Curved_Buttpad_6_Edit-3050441.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Hellion_Curved_Buttpad_11_EDIT-3050442.jpg This is great for folks needing it, so you have a side by side picture with a VHS-2 that doesn’t have the mod so people can clearly see the change? @MAKAK47 Great idea! Here you go, and I will also add it to the product pictures on our webstore. Sven Manticore Armshttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Helllion_Curved_Buttpad_13-3051039.jpg Well, well, well.... This is may just end up changing my mind on the Hellion. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:14:04 PM EDT
[#17]
One thing I like about the factory stock design is how it rolls in the shoulder ... people with the curved pad ... does the rifle remain "static" in your shoulders or can it kind of "move" with you when you are transitioning ... does that make sense?
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Posted: 12/12/2023 8:08:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Alright boys, you have been very patient, and our new Hellion Curved Buttpad is now up for sale on our webstore. Aluminum construction, it reduces the length of pull 1", adds 1" of length to the toe, plus the curved shape makes it lock into your shoulder much better than the OEM buttpad. Sven Manticore Arms https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Hellion_Curved_Buttpad_6_Edit-3050441.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Hellion_Curved_Buttpad_11_EDIT-3050442.jpg Now to seriously consider a Hellion. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 10:16:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Saw on AKFiles that the Hellion with this new Manticore stock has nearly identical LOP as an AUG in a side by side picture
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 11:04:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Joescuba: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/37487/IMG_6533_jpg-3050449.JPG @joescuba What low mount ring is that? Factory Aimpoint or something else? And does it cowitness? Thanks |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 7:27:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Joescuba]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pair_of_ACES: @joescuba What low mount ring is that? Factory Aimpoint or something else? And does it cowitness? Thanks Yes it is an Aimpoint mount, and it does co-witness. So far I am liking the set up. Regards |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 11:09:02 AM EDT
[#22]
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite bullpup on the citadel!
 Have the Manticore butt pad and Lunartech extended bolt release installed. Both feel good, but haven't gotten to live fire with them yet. Optic is a Romeo 4T with the small spacer, plus EOTech 5x magnifier in the Arisaka low flip mount. This puts the optic low enough for a natural cheek weld, plus the iron sights cowitness through it. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 5:44:10 PM EDT
[#23]
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/14/2023 10:22:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheRat: I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite bullpup on the citadel! https://i.imgur.com/3m1lPiR.jpg Have the Manticore butt pad and Lunartech extended bolt release installed. Both feel good, but haven't gotten to live fire with them yet. Optic is a Romeo 4T with the small spacer, plus EOTech 5x magnifier in the Arisaka low flip mount. This puts the optic low enough for a natural cheek weld, plus the iron sights cowitness through it. I think that I want that optic setup. |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 6:18:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kenzo: Sorry for being off topic but you have to tell us about hour ODG X95 SBR. That is sick! Thanks! I had always wanted an OD sbr x95, but wasn’t a priority till I ran across a 16” green one locally for a steal. Then got a flat buttplate here on arf and begged iwi to sell me a short top rail. Barrel chop from JPGrips and blk lbl hg. Now I just need to shoot it! Curious to see how the VHS and X95 compare really |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 12/14/2023 9:04:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Joker23]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheRat: I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite bullpup on the citadel! https://i.imgur.com/3m1lPiR.jpg Have the Manticore butt pad and Lunartech extended bolt release installed. Both feel good, but haven't gotten to live fire with them yet. Optic is a Romeo 4T with the small spacer, plus EOTech 5x magnifier in the Arisaka low flip mount. This puts the optic low enough for a natural cheek weld, plus the iron sights cowitness through it. I saw a post on page 12 or so that an A1 or A2 grip helped with length of pull. The Manticore Arms buttpad helps LOP, too. It's hard for me to tell from your pic, but is that pistol grip the same angle as an A1 or A2? How does that pistol grip and buttpad combination affect length of pull for you? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2023 1:00:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Joker23: I saw a post on page 12 or so that an A1 or A2 grip helped with length of pull. The Manticore Arms buttpad helps LOP, too. It's hard for me to tell from your pic, but is that pistol grip the same angle as an A1 or A2? How does that pistol grip and buttpad combination affect length of pull for you? It's a Magpul K grip which is already less angled than A1/A2 grips. That combined with the natural slant that the Hellion's pistol grip socket puts it at, it's way less angled than A1/A2 grips. I really like it, my wrist feels comfortable with it and I haven't had any issues manipulating the safety. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/15/2023 1:52:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: Received my Manticore buttstock today. Install was simple and straight forward. Was concerned about the all black stock w/ the ODG furniture but I think it looks just fine. Did some musical optics and put a Holosun AEMS green reticle on their short mount and it is the perfect height. All I need to do is get a light (hopefully someone will gift one for Christmas), and this thing will be ready go. This buttstock really does make the rifle feel better. It's a really good product and upgrade. Highly recommend it and all three of the Lunartech parts. https://i.imgur.com/gOfOGfQ.jpg Looks great. This is the vibe for sure. ODG or black hit the right spot. |
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Posted: 12/15/2023 10:25:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Manticore_Arms]
[#29]
Hey guys, quick update on the Hellion Curved Buttpad:
We had tested the Hellion Curved buttpad both in live fire and with empty magazines loaded in the magwell and it always locked back. After a customer reached out and said they had an issue when they reached up into the magwell and activated the bolt catch without a mag in the gun (not something that is recommended, this really isn't the way the Hellion was intended to have the bolt locked open), we started looking into it, and it turns out the follower on Magpul magazines is shaped just right to catch the teeth on the bolt and prevent the bolt from going forward- it was not locking back on the bolt catch, but actually catching on the follower of the empty magazine when manually charged. The bolt is lightly spring loaded in the bolt carrier which causes the bolt to project forward. When firing the Hellion with live ammo, under recoil the bolt is compressed back into the carrier, and will be far enough back to lock the bolt open when the magazine runs empty. However, the spring keeps the bolt forward when you just pull the charging handle back. When doing an "administrative" bolt lock open (i.e. just pulling the charging handle back to lock the bolt open) the OEM buffer projects 0.200" too far forward on our new Hellion Curved Buttplate to allow the bolt to lock open. We are currently manufacturing new buffers that are 0.200" shorter and we will ship them to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad at no charge, and the new buffer will be included with all buttpads going forward (we put the Hellion Curved Buttpad out of stock as soon as we discovered this issue) As I said, we will be shipping a new 0.200" shorter buffer to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad. In the meantime, it is safe to live fire with the buttpad, and just be aware that the bolt will not lock open if just pulling back on the charging handle with no magazine loaded. We do not recommend running the gun without a buffer. If you really want, you can trim the existing buffer down 0.200", but if you can wait approximately 14 days the new buffers will be in the mail to you. If you have any questions, please email us at [email protected] Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 12/15/2023 11:09:14 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Hey guys, quick update on the Hellion Curved Buttpad: We had tested the Hellion Curved buttpad both in live fire and with empty magazines loaded in the magwell and it always locked back. After a customer reached out and said they had an issue when they reached up into the magwell and activated the bolt catch without a mag in the gun (not something that is recommended, this really isn't the way the Hellion was intended to have the bolt locked open), we started looking into it, and it turns out the follower on Magpul magazines is shaped just right to catch the teeth on the bolt and prevent the bolt from going forward- it was not locking back on the bolt catch, but actually catching on the follower of the empty magazine when manually charged. The bolt is lightly spring loaded in the bolt carrier which causes the bolt to project forward. When firing the Hellion with live ammo, under recoil the bolt is compressed back into the carrier, and will be far enough back to lock the bolt open when the magazine runs empty. However, the spring keeps the bolt forward when you just pull the charging handle back. When doing an "administrative" bolt lock open (i.e. just pulling the charging handle back to lock the bolt open) the OEM buffer projects 0.200" too far forward on our new Hellion Curved Buttplate to allow the bolt to lock open. We are currently manufacturing new buffers that are 0.200" shorter and we will ship them to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad at no charge, and the new buffer will be included with all buttpads going forward (we put the Hellion Curved Buttpad out of stock as soon as we discovered this issue) As I said, we will be shipping a new 0.200" shorter buffer to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad. In the meantime, it is safe to live fire with the buttpad, and just be aware that the bolt will not lock open if just pulling back on the charging handle with no magazine loaded. We do not recommend running the gun without a buffer. If you really want, you can trim the existing buffer down 0.200", but if you can wait approximately 14 days the new buffers will be in the mail to you. If you have any questions, please email us at [email protected] Sven Manticore Arms Will the shorter buffer increase wear or felt recoil? |
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Posted: 12/15/2023 11:30:13 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Hey guys, quick update on the Hellion Curved Buttpad: We had tested the Hellion Curved buttpad both in live fire and with empty magazines loaded in the magwell and it always locked back. After a customer reached out and said they had an issue when they reached up into the magwell and activated the bolt catch without a mag in the gun (not something that is recommended, this really isn't the way the Hellion was intended to have the bolt locked open), we started looking into it, and it turns out the follower on Magpul magazines is shaped just right to catch the teeth on the bolt and prevent the bolt from going forward- it was not locking back on the bolt catch, but actually catching on the follower of the empty magazine when manually charged. The bolt is lightly spring loaded in the bolt carrier which causes the bolt to project forward. When firing the Hellion with live ammo, under recoil the bolt is compressed back into the carrier, and will be far enough back to lock the bolt open when the magazine runs empty. However, the spring keeps the bolt forward when you just pull the charging handle back. When doing an "administrative" bolt lock open (i.e. just pulling the charging handle back to lock the bolt open) the OEM buffer projects 0.200" too far forward on our new Hellion Curved Buttplate to allow the bolt to lock open. We are currently manufacturing new buffers that are 0.200" shorter and we will ship them to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad at no charge, and the new buffer will be included with all buttpads going forward (we put the Hellion Curved Buttpad out of stock as soon as we discovered this issue) As I said, we will be shipping a new 0.200" shorter buffer to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad. In the meantime, it is safe to live fire with the buttpad, and just be aware that the bolt will not lock open if just pulling back on the charging handle with no magazine loaded. We do not recommend running the gun without a buffer. If you really want, you can trim the existing buffer down 0.200", but if you can wait approximately 14 days the new buffers will be in the mail to you. If you have any questions, please email us at [email protected] Sven Manticore Arms It should not affect either. We actually have fired the Hellion Curved Buttpad without any buffer at all and it did not change the feel or the wear in any appreciable way. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 12/15/2023 1:10:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: It should not affect either. We actually have fired the Hellion Curved Buttpad without any buffer at all and it did not change the feel or the wear in any appreciable way. Sven Manticore Arms Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Hey guys, quick update on the Hellion Curved Buttpad: We had tested the Hellion Curved buttpad both in live fire and with empty magazines loaded in the magwell and it always locked back. After a customer reached out and said they had an issue when they reached up into the magwell and activated the bolt catch without a mag in the gun (not something that is recommended, this really isn't the way the Hellion was intended to have the bolt locked open), we started looking into it, and it turns out the follower on Magpul magazines is shaped just right to catch the teeth on the bolt and prevent the bolt from going forward- it was not locking back on the bolt catch, but actually catching on the follower of the empty magazine when manually charged. The bolt is lightly spring loaded in the bolt carrier which causes the bolt to project forward. When firing the Hellion with live ammo, under recoil the bolt is compressed back into the carrier, and will be far enough back to lock the bolt open when the magazine runs empty. However, the spring keeps the bolt forward when you just pull the charging handle back. When doing an "administrative" bolt lock open (i.e. just pulling the charging handle back to lock the bolt open) the OEM buffer projects 0.200" too far forward on our new Hellion Curved Buttplate to allow the bolt to lock open. We are currently manufacturing new buffers that are 0.200" shorter and we will ship them to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad at no charge, and the new buffer will be included with all buttpads going forward (we put the Hellion Curved Buttpad out of stock as soon as we discovered this issue) As I said, we will be shipping a new 0.200" shorter buffer to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad. In the meantime, it is safe to live fire with the buttpad, and just be aware that the bolt will not lock open if just pulling back on the charging handle with no magazine loaded. We do not recommend running the gun without a buffer. If you really want, you can trim the existing buffer down 0.200", but if you can wait approximately 14 days the new buffers will be in the mail to you. If you have any questions, please email us at [email protected] Sven Manticore Arms It should not affect either. We actually have fired the Hellion Curved Buttpad without any buffer at all and it did not change the feel or the wear in any appreciable way. Sven Manticore Arms Thanks for the info and the updated buffer. Very upstanding of you to do this upgrade on your own. Since we're talking about issues w/ the buttstock, can I ask what the decision process was for designing it w/out anti-rotation QD slots (unless my stock w/ full rotation slots is defective)? I have never understood why manufacturers, not just you all but everyone, does them. Everyone I know of or read hates them. |
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Posted: 12/15/2023 3:22:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Manticore_Arms]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: Thanks for the info and the updated buffer. Very upstanding of you to do this upgrade on your own. Since we're talking about issues w/ the buttstock, can I ask what the decision process was for designing it w/out anti-rotation QD slots (unless my stock w/ full rotation slots is defective)? I have never understood why manufacturers, not just you all but everyone, does them. Everyone I know of or read hates them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paulie771: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Hey guys, quick update on the Hellion Curved Buttpad: We had tested the Hellion Curved buttpad both in live fire and with empty magazines loaded in the magwell and it always locked back. After a customer reached out and said they had an issue when they reached up into the magwell and activated the bolt catch without a mag in the gun (not something that is recommended, this really isn't the way the Hellion was intended to have the bolt locked open), we started looking into it, and it turns out the follower on Magpul magazines is shaped just right to catch the teeth on the bolt and prevent the bolt from going forward- it was not locking back on the bolt catch, but actually catching on the follower of the empty magazine when manually charged. The bolt is lightly spring loaded in the bolt carrier which causes the bolt to project forward. When firing the Hellion with live ammo, under recoil the bolt is compressed back into the carrier, and will be far enough back to lock the bolt open when the magazine runs empty. However, the spring keeps the bolt forward when you just pull the charging handle back. When doing an "administrative" bolt lock open (i.e. just pulling the charging handle back to lock the bolt open) the OEM buffer projects 0.200" too far forward on our new Hellion Curved Buttplate to allow the bolt to lock open. We are currently manufacturing new buffers that are 0.200" shorter and we will ship them to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad at no charge, and the new buffer will be included with all buttpads going forward (we put the Hellion Curved Buttpad out of stock as soon as we discovered this issue) As I said, we will be shipping a new 0.200" shorter buffer to every customer who purchased a Hellion Curved Buttpad. In the meantime, it is safe to live fire with the buttpad, and just be aware that the bolt will not lock open if just pulling back on the charging handle with no magazine loaded. We do not recommend running the gun without a buffer. If you really want, you can trim the existing buffer down 0.200", but if you can wait approximately 14 days the new buffers will be in the mail to you. If you have any questions, please email us at [email protected] Sven Manticore Arms It should not affect either. We actually have fired the Hellion Curved Buttpad without any buffer at all and it did not change the feel or the wear in any appreciable way. Sven Manticore Arms Thanks for the info and the updated buffer. Very upstanding of you to do this upgrade on your own. Since we're talking about issues w/ the buttstock, can I ask what the decision process was for designing it w/out anti-rotation QD slots (unless my stock w/ full rotation slots is defective)? I have never understood why manufacturers, not just you all but everyone, does them. Everyone I know of or read hates them. A fair question, so here is my take as a manufacturer: Think about how a QD pocket is machined- a tool bores a hole into a part, then you have to send a smaller tool with a little tooth or teeth on it in (either a keyway cutter or a super tiny boring bar) to machine the inner groove by running itself in a little circle where the stem of the tool can't touch the material. Now imagine if you want to machine a non rotational QD pocket you need an even smaller diameter keyway cutter, which can break super easily, into the hole to cut essentially four moon shaped/semi circular cuts. If at any point something goes wrong (tool breaks, something is out of alignment, etc, etc) that part is ruined, and you have to put a new tool in the machine and rezero it. Multiply that risk by the number of QD pockets per part, times the number of parts being made. All for a QD pocket- which is already a non-standardized hole using a connection method and connector that was never designed or engineered for slings in the first place, but our industry ended up adopting it. The real question here for me has always been- How many times has a sling legitimately gotten tangled up that an anti-rotation pocket would have stopped it? In all my years of shooting guns, running courses, and working with trainers, I can't honestly think of a single time an anti-rotation QD pocket would have stopped a sling issue that a standard QD pocket wouldn't take care of already. Just my take, but there it is... Sven Manticore Arms [ETA] Sorry if I sound crabby, that is not my intent! (Just got a bunch of dental work done this morning and I still hurt from it). It is a valid and good question, and I hope my response gives some insight into it. If it were up to me, I would design a new standardized QD mount system, but I doubt the whole industry would be willing to switch over.  I personally use our Zulu Nylon Gear 2 point slings with the 550 cord loops at the end- they never come unattached by accident, and are very simple and sturdy. |
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Posted: 12/15/2023 3:24:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Does anyone have an 18"? Wondering if there's enough for an over the barrel suppressor mount. Or I suppose the same question for a 16" (+2").
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USA
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Posted: 12/15/2023 4:28:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: A fair question, so here is my take as a manufacturer: Think about how a QD pocket is machined- a tool bores a hole into a part, then you have to send a smaller tool with a little tooth or teeth on it in (either a keyway cutter or a super tiny boring bar) to machine the inner groove by running itself in a little circle where the stem of the tool can't touch the material. Now imagine if you want to machine a non rotational QD pocket you need an even smaller diameter keyway cutter, which can break super easily, into the hole to cut essentially four moon shaped/semi circular cuts. If at any point something goes wrong (tool breaks, something is out of alignment, etc, etc) that part is ruined, and you have to put a new tool in the machine and rezero it. Multiply that risk by the number of QD pockets per part, times the number of parts being made. All for a QD pocket- which is already a non-standardized hole using a connection method and connector that was never designed or engineered for slings in the first place, but our industry ended up adopting it. The real question here for me has always been- How many times has a sling legitimately gotten tangled up that an anti-rotation pocket would have stopped it? In all my years of shooting guns, running courses, and working with trainers, I can't honestly think of a single time an anti-rotation QD pocket would have stopped a sling issue that a standard QD pocket wouldn't take care of already. Just my take, but there it is... Sven Manticore Arms [ETA] Sorry if I sound crabby, that is not my intent! (Just got a bunch of dental work done this morning and I still hurt from it). It is a valid and good question, and I hope my response gives some insight into it. If it were up to me, I would design a new standardized QD mount system, but I doubt the whole industry would be willing to switch over. I personally use our Zulu Nylon Gear 2 point slings with the 550 cord loops at the end- they never come unattached by accident, and are very simple and sturdy. Sorry about your teeth do you guys have more goodies coming out for the VHS-2 in the future? |
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Posted: 12/15/2023 6:12:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: Sorry about your teeth do you guys have more goodies coming out for the VHS-2 in the future? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: A fair question, so here is my take as a manufacturer: Think about how a QD pocket is machined- a tool bores a hole into a part, then you have to send a smaller tool with a little tooth or teeth on it in (either a keyway cutter or a super tiny boring bar) to machine the inner groove by running itself in a little circle where the stem of the tool can't touch the material. Now imagine if you want to machine a non rotational QD pocket you need an even smaller diameter keyway cutter, which can break super easily, into the hole to cut essentially four moon shaped/semi circular cuts. If at any point something goes wrong (tool breaks, something is out of alignment, etc, etc) that part is ruined, and you have to put a new tool in the machine and rezero it. Multiply that risk by the number of QD pockets per part, times the number of parts being made. All for a QD pocket- which is already a non-standardized hole using a connection method and connector that was never designed or engineered for slings in the first place, but our industry ended up adopting it. The real question here for me has always been- How many times has a sling legitimately gotten tangled up that an anti-rotation pocket would have stopped it? In all my years of shooting guns, running courses, and working with trainers, I can't honestly think of a single time an anti-rotation QD pocket would have stopped a sling issue that a standard QD pocket wouldn't take care of already. Just my take, but there it is... Sven Manticore Arms [ETA] Sorry if I sound crabby, that is not my intent! (Just got a bunch of dental work done this morning and I still hurt from it). It is a valid and good question, and I hope my response gives some insight into it. If it were up to me, I would design a new standardized QD mount system, but I doubt the whole industry would be willing to switch over. I personally use our Zulu Nylon Gear 2 point slings with the 550 cord loops at the end- they never come unattached by accident, and are very simple and sturdy. Sorry about your teeth do you guys have more goodies coming out for the VHS-2 in the future? LOL, teeth are better now, just needed some old fillings replaced and it was not fun! I am looking at two or three other items, but nothing is solid yet. We wanted to see how these first two sold and see what the market is. Sven Manticore Arms |
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USA
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Posted: 12/16/2023 11:57:14 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: LOL, teeth are better now, just needed some old fillings replaced and it was not fun! I am looking at two or three other items, but nothing is solid yet. We wanted to see how these first two sold and see what the market is. Sven Manticore Arms The stock seems to be gaining a lot of interest, especially for people who disliked the LOP |
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Posted: 12/16/2023 4:16:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: LOL, teeth are better now, just needed some old fillings replaced and it was not fun! I am looking at two or three other items, but nothing is solid yet. We wanted to see how these first two sold and see what the market is. Sven Manticore Arms Chris's Hellion wish list: Flared magwell (one piece) POSSIBLY incorporating an improved release button. MAYBE a new somewhat extended handguard. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/16/2023 4:18:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kisara]
[#39]
Future suggestion to all for problems encountered with the Hellion (Like the groove in the guide rod), please post photos. This is how lots of problems were shared with the SIG 556 a decade ago, or the recent cracks in AUG stocks.
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Posted: 12/16/2023 6:58:10 PM EDT
[#40]
I'd still like an upgraded trigger.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 12/16/2023 8:13:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spork: I'd still like an upgraded trigger. Absolutely. Biggest need on the platform by far IMO |
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Posted: 12/16/2023 8:16:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karter14171: Absolutely. Biggest need on the platform by far IMO Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karter14171: Originally Posted By spork: I'd still like an upgraded trigger. Absolutely. Biggest need on the platform by far IMO Just drop in an upgraded hammerpack like w/the X95. Oh, wait...
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Posted: 12/16/2023 10:20:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stonia: Does anyone have an 18"? Wondering if there's enough for an over the barrel suppressor mount. Or I suppose the same question for a 16" (+2"). So call it 13.5 + .6" -16" = the otb mount clearance. which makes perfect sense as Otter creek says you need 2.0x" of stick out. You already have 1.5 or so with the 16" barrel. Adding two inches is gonna get you there for sure. |
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Posted: 12/16/2023 10:26:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: vectorsc]
[#44]
 Attached FileSo. The FDE hellion is still sub-moa. The black one was a little better maybe, but not enough to matter. See the above picture for my hellion after 300 suppressed rounds fired. MK262 is going 2699.4 fps too. which isn't bad for a 16" barrel.  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/18/2023 11:42:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Scrapple]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: A fair question, so here is my take as a manufacturer: Think about how a QD pocket is machined- a tool bores a hole into a part, then you have to send a smaller tool with a little tooth or teeth on it in (either a keyway cutter or a super tiny boring bar) to machine the inner groove by running itself in a little circle where the stem of the tool can't touch the material. Now imagine if you want to machine a non rotational QD pocket you need an even smaller diameter keyway cutter, which can break super easily, into the hole to cut essentially four moon shaped/semi circular cuts. If at any point something goes wrong (tool breaks, something is out of alignment, etc, etc) that part is ruined, and you have to put a new tool in the machine and rezero it. Multiply that risk by the number of QD pockets per part, times the number of parts being made. All for a QD pocket- which is already a non-standardized hole using a connection method and connector that was never designed or engineered for slings in the first place, but our industry ended up adopting it. The real question here for me has always been- How many times has a sling legitimately gotten tangled up that an anti-rotation pocket would have stopped it? In all my years of shooting guns, running courses, and working with trainers, I can't honestly think of a single time an anti-rotation QD pocket would have stopped a sling issue that a standard QD pocket wouldn't take care of already. Just my take, but there it is... Sven Manticore Arms [ETA] Sorry if I sound crabby, that is not my intent! (Just got a bunch of dental work done this morning and I still hurt from it). It is a valid and good question, and I hope my response gives some insight into it. If it were up to me, I would design a new standardized QD mount system, but I doubt the whole industry would be willing to switch over. I personally use our Zulu Nylon Gear 2 point slings with the 550 cord loops at the end- they never come unattached by accident, and are very simple and sturdy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: A fair question, so here is my take as a manufacturer: Think about how a QD pocket is machined- a tool bores a hole into a part, then you have to send a smaller tool with a little tooth or teeth on it in (either a keyway cutter or a super tiny boring bar) to machine the inner groove by running itself in a little circle where the stem of the tool can't touch the material. Now imagine if you want to machine a non rotational QD pocket you need an even smaller diameter keyway cutter, which can break super easily, into the hole to cut essentially four moon shaped/semi circular cuts. If at any point something goes wrong (tool breaks, something is out of alignment, etc, etc) that part is ruined, and you have to put a new tool in the machine and rezero it. Multiply that risk by the number of QD pockets per part, times the number of parts being made. All for a QD pocket- which is already a non-standardized hole using a connection method and connector that was never designed or engineered for slings in the first place, but our industry ended up adopting it. The real question here for me has always been- How many times has a sling legitimately gotten tangled up that an anti-rotation pocket would have stopped it? In all my years of shooting guns, running courses, and working with trainers, I can't honestly think of a single time an anti-rotation QD pocket would have stopped a sling issue that a standard QD pocket wouldn't take care of already. Just my take, but there it is... Sven Manticore Arms [ETA] Sorry if I sound crabby, that is not my intent! (Just got a bunch of dental work done this morning and I still hurt from it). It is a valid and good question, and I hope my response gives some insight into it. If it were up to me, I would design a new standardized QD mount system, but I doubt the whole industry would be willing to switch over. I personally use our Zulu Nylon Gear 2 point slings with the 550 cord loops at the end- they never come unattached by accident, and are very simple and sturdy. Non anti-rotational sockets are awful for shooting, storage, practice, and all other weapons manipulation. This is the primary reason why I don't intend on buying your new stock, I just can't make peace with that. My OEM stock and handguard have already received the "JB Weld mod", and yours doesn't appear to be compatible with this technique, judging from pictures. So hopefully, future versions will incorporate rotation limiters. Originally Posted By TheRat: I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite bullpup on the citadel! https://i.imgur.com/3m1lPiR.jpg Have the Manticore butt pad and Lunartech extended bolt release installed. Both feel good, but haven't gotten to live fire with them yet. Optic is a Romeo 4T with the small spacer, plus EOTech 5x magnifier in the Arisaka low flip mount. This puts the optic low enough for a natural cheek weld, plus the iron sights cowitness through it. Can you post pictures looking through the optics and cowitness? |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 12:34:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Non anti-rotational sockets are awful for shooting, storage, practice, and all other weapons manipulation. This is the primary reason why I don't intend on buying your new stock, I just can't make peace with that. My OEM stock and handguard have already received the "JB Weld mod", and yours doesn't appear to be compatible with this technique, judging from pictures. So hopefully, future versions will incorporate rotation limiters. Can you post pictures looking through the optics and cowitness? |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 1:54:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple:Non anti-rotational sockets are awful for shooting, storage, practice, and all other weapons manipulation. Agreed. |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 10:00:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: vectorsc]
[#48]
Non rotation socket fixed. Buy noveske flush mount qd sling swivel. Either thread the existing QD hole as 1/2x32 TPI, or just drill the fucker like I did and install the noveske backing plate. It fits the stock hollow perfectly.
$18 well spent - now its steel and antirotation.  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 10:10:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vectorsc: Non rotation socket fixed. Buy noveske flush mount qd sling swivel. Either thread the existing QD hole as 1/2x32 TPI, or just drill the fucker like I did and install the noveske backing plate. It fits the stock hollow perfectly. $18 well spent - now its steel and antirotation. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/21A4DC6B-6D48-4BF9-86B8-E1CF45B8A1C5_jpe-3063995.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/A10FE111-8B59-40D4-9B05-8062B22816A2_jpe-3063996.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/566E77FD-E3DB-4D62-9000-029059CDA6B7_jpe-3063998.JPG Your setup is VERY similar to mine. I have the same can and the same stock and I also run a PA Micro, but mine's a 3X. How do you like the offset mount for the RDS? |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 10:12:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chris_1522: Your setup is VERY similar to mine. I have the same can and the same stock and I also run a PA Micro, but mine's a 3X. How do you like the offset mount for the RDS? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chris_1522: Originally Posted By vectorsc: Non rotation socket fixed. Buy noveske flush mount qd sling swivel. Either thread the existing QD hole as 1/2x32 TPI, or just drill the fucker like I did and install the noveske backing plate. It fits the stock hollow perfectly. $18 well spent - now its steel and antirotation. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/21A4DC6B-6D48-4BF9-86B8-E1CF45B8A1C5_jpe-3063995.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/A10FE111-8B59-40D4-9B05-8062B22816A2_jpe-3063996.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51787/566E77FD-E3DB-4D62-9000-029059CDA6B7_jpe-3063998.JPG Your setup is VERY similar to mine. I have the same can and the same stock and I also run a PA Micro, but mine's a 3X. How do you like the offset mount for the RDS? I run the offset to let me run the 5x PA. makes it an easy choice, especially with mil reticle. I shot a 6" plate at 600yds this weekend at 60pct hits with this setup from standing, barricade. I fucking love this gun. |
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