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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:45:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
NOTE, the archive toggle is set for this thread.
That means you don't have to bump this thread to keep it out of the archives. So copy the link for future reference. dryflash3 As of late there has been quite a few questions regarding the 300 Blackout. With the blessing of the mods I have created this master thread to help consolidate all of the questions and data. Hopefully with this thread we can accomplish a couple different things. First make it easier to answer and find questions, and second gain enough info and data to start building good load data for the database. Please post all your Blackout questions here. If you post data please make sure it includes all of this info: Data should include: 1) Caliber 2) Case manufacturer 3) Case length 4) Bullet manufacturer 5) Bullet weight and type 6) Powder type 7) Powder charge weight 8) OAL 9) Primer 10) Firearm tested in 11) Chrono data (Avg, ES, SD) |
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Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Proud Member - "Team Ranstad" - The Fantastic Bastards! |
Has anyone tried loading Nosler Accubond 125 grain bullets? They are slightly longer than the Ballistic Tips, .02" longer to be exact.
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Alright Ill shoot some factory loads this weekend and see how she does. Will report back by sunday night.
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What are you guys using for a BZ for 220 SMK Subs?
I just loaded and launched a bunch through my 9" I think Im about .75" high at 50 yards which should get me about 6-8 low at 100 yards. |
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I use a 100 yard zero for subs, 220 SMK will be around 3.5" high at 50 yards and 4.5" low at 200 yards.
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Duct tape reinforced kevlar
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Can anyone else attest to an accuracy change between reloaded.300blk with fresh, non-annealed, non fire-formed case
Vs. Fire-formed and annealed cases. Can you run a crimp die and have the same effect as annealing? Edit, does running your fire formed brass through the sizing die defeat the purpose of fire forming? |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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This post is for mike89, hope he finds this thread I directed him to.
The Speer 125 gr TNT proved accurate for me. I will buy more. Didn't have good luck with H-110, with 21.5 grs I blew a primer, so quit shooting the H-110 loads. With Lil'Gun the results were much better. 19.5 was the best in my rifle. AA-1680, 21.5 grs was almost as good as the Lil'Gun load. I used mixed mil 223 formed cases, annealed, Wolf SRM, and a light crimp with a Lee FCD. This was the fire forming load.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Bump
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By sethmj1480:
Has anyone tried loading Nosler Accubond 125 grain bullets? They are slightly longer than the Ballistic Tips, .02" longer to be exact. So I'm guessing no one has tried this? |
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Originally Posted By sethmj1480: I would imagine the .02" has negligible effect on anything.Originally Posted By sethmj1480: Has anyone tried loading Nosler Accubond 125 grain bullets? They are slightly longer than the Ballistic Tips, .02" longer to be exact. So I'm guessing no one has tried this? |
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Small Arms Master Gunner
If you ain't Cav....you ain't Shit. Double Spur Holder Order of the Black Shamrock #1209 |
Originally Posted By CBR900:
Pulled M-80 (147grn military FMJ) with Lil gun powder and CONVERTED 556 brass - pressure signs i.e. ejector marks! I loaded these over what I thought was a conservative starting load of Lil'gun powder. I set the OAL to the crimp grove on the M-80s. Federal small rifle primer. I rsearched loads for M-80 pulls and found references to people loading up to 17.2 grns of Lil gun and even going as high as 17.4 - though they noted pressure signs at that level. I decided to back off a full grain and load at 16.18 grns of Lilgun (I have a very accurate lab scale). Well, yesterday I tried them. With the newly CONVERTED 556 (mixed headstamp, with a lot of LC) brass, there were ejector marks on most of the cases. Because the Federal primers are buttery-soft, I expected some flattening (no cratering). But the ejector mark was so stong on one case that it raised a needle-sharp burr which caught on my finger as I was picking up brass. Strangely, the factory headstamp 300BLK brass showed NO such marks & was fine. I guess there must be a big difference in internal case capacity (300 brass having more internal volume). Thoughts? Here is more info: 16" Wilson Combat stainless barrel with Carbine gas port (unk. size). Same result with and without 762SD. Accuracy was very good even thought these were pulls with mized headstamp, non-anealed brass and a 4MOA dot. How accurate were these? Just curious. Im shooting non annealed mix headstamp as well and im trying to weed out potential issues. |
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead:
Originally Posted By CBR900:
Pulled M-80 (147grn military FMJ) with Lil gun powder and CONVERTED 556 brass - pressure signs i.e. ejector marks! I loaded these over what I thought was a conservative starting load of Lil'gun powder. I set the OAL to the crimp grove on the M-80s. Federal small rifle primer. I rsearched loads for M-80 pulls and found references to people loading up to 17.2 grns of Lil gun and even going as high as 17.4 - though they noted pressure signs at that level. I decided to back off a full grain and load at 16.18 grns of Lilgun (I have a very accurate lab scale). Well, yesterday I tried them. With the newly CONVERTED 556 (mixed headstamp, with a lot of LC) brass, there were ejector marks on most of the cases. Because the Federal primers are buttery-soft, I expected some flattening (no cratering). But the ejector mark was so stong on one case that it raised a needle-sharp burr which caught on my finger as I was picking up brass. Strangely, the factory headstamp 300BLK brass showed NO such marks & was fine. I guess there must be a big difference in internal case capacity (300 brass having more internal volume). Thoughts? Here is more info: 16" Wilson Combat stainless barrel with Carbine gas port (unk. size). Same result with and without 762SD. Accuracy was very good even thought these were pulls with mized headstamp, non-anealed brass and a 4MOA dot. How accurate were these? Just curious. Im shooting non annealed mix headstamp as well and im trying to weed out potential issues. Biggest limiting factor was probably the 4 MOA AimPoint Micro in a LaRue mount I had on the gun. Its a top notch dot sight, but is not optimal for "shooting a group." 4MOA = about 4" circle at 100. The "target" I was shooting at also happened to be an orange dot about 3" in diameter at 100 yards. Ever try to use a 4" red-glowing circle to hit a 3" orange circle 100 yards away? Even still, I could keep most of them on or just outside the circle. Without a "real" scope, I do not want to make any "group size" claims beyond that. I was surprised it did that well. I was expecting more of a shotgun pattern all over the paper. |
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Hmm yea something is definitely going on with me then, either rifle or loads.. Still hadn't been able to find .300blk factory stuff anywhere. Ill get three that clover leaf at 50 yards then one 5 high and right and the next 5 right and low. Makes no sense. Could a fcd improve the issue?
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CBR900:
can you take 2 case and cross section them. Im thinking the LC is thicker. Oh shit do this.. take a LC case with primer and BLK case with primer. weight and record weights. then fill to the rim with water and re record the weights. I think your going to find the LC case will be less. ETA. ok take the weight with water and sub the weight without. that will give you grains of water that the case holds. and report back that weight. |
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Blah blah blah..
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead: I got better results when I annealed my cases.Hmm yea something is definitely going on with me then, either rifle or loads.. Still hadn't been able to find .300blk factory stuff anywhere. Ill get three that clover leaf at 50 yards then one 5 high and right and the next 5 right and low. Makes no sense. Could a fcd improve the issue? I also apply a light crimp with a Lee FCD.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
I think ive found a few inconsistencies that may be causing my random wingers.
A.) Im running 135g sierra matchkings hpbt. I started measuring them and after measuring, shortest was 1.083. Longest was 1.097. They were cheap, but that seems like a lot of lee way to me. Is there any other brands that have a more consistent length? I dont have a digital scale but im assuming same diameter plus longer/shorter length equals different weights. B.) I noticed when I was seating my bullets that some seated easy, some harder. No shaved jackets or anything, and none so loose ii could manually push the bullet deaper with my hands on a hard wooden table, but to again be consistent im now using a fcd. Im not using bullets with a cannalure, so i used a heavy crimp, to the point where the segments of the collet are about a thousadth or two from touching. C.) The only other thing I could think of would be the mixed headstamp brass. If you use mixed brass, do you sort them, then load only one stamping, zero with that stamp, then when you load the next headstamp rezero? |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead: I think ive found a few inconsistencies that may be causing my random wingers. A.) Im running 135g sierra matchkings hpbt. I started measuring them and after measuring, shortest was 1.083. Longest was 1.097. They were cheap, but that seems like a lot of lee way to me. Is there any other brands that have a more consistent length? Minor differences in length are meaningless. I dont have a digital scale but im assuming same diameter plus longer/shorter length equals different weights. My loads with the Sierra 135 gr MK shoot great. B.) I noticed when I was seating my bullets that some seated easy, some harder. Some of your cases have work hardened, you need to anneal I'm thinking. No shaved jackets or anything, and none so loose ii could manually push the bullet deaper with my hands on a hard wooden table, but to again be consistent im now using a fcd. Im not using bullets with a cannalure, so i used a heavy crimp, to the point where the segments of the collet are about a thousadth or two from touching. A heavy crimp will not cure a neck tension issue like you describe, anneal. What does your sizing ball measure? .306 I hope. C.) The only other thing I could think of would be the mixed headstamp brass. First thing to change is to use matched cases. If you use mixed brass, do you sort them, then load only one stamping, zero with that stamp, then when you load the next headstamp rezero? My Sierra 135 gr MK load; once fired RP cases I formed and annealed (nothing but RP cases), Rem 7 1/2, 18.4 grs H-110, OAL 2.047, no crimp. ( I never crimp MK bullets in any caliber) I worked up from 17.3 grs, 18.4 was max listed load. Hodgdon's on line data. Good luck
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Some reformed brass can have necks that are too thick.Foreign made brass that had PPU on the bottom from assorted brass I bought had thick necks after being reformed so I turned the necks in a forster neck turning tool so they could be used safely.It is a good thing to measure your loaded rounds at the neck area and ones that measure over.334 might be too thick to use.I use neck turned brass when I shoot cast bullets sized .310 in my bolt gun so there is enough room for the neck to expand and let go of the bullet when fired.If a loaded round is too thick in the neck it can cause high pressures.It can stick in the chamber when being test cycled in an AR.Always a good idea to check your loaded rounds made from reformed assorted brass to make sure the necks aren't too thick.When neck turning sometimes you can feel a slight donut at the base of the neck.Not all that common with 300BLK but other reformed cartridges need the donut reamed out before use.Thought I mention these things so that if someone is using the right loads but rounds are showing pressure signs they might want to check neck thickness.Most domestic made brass is fine but a thick one might show up once in a while.Reformed brass that's been neck turned shows that some are out of round more than what you would think.
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So suggestions are...
A.) Sort mixed head stamps. (Im assuming use same charge, just expect a poi shift when going from one headstamp to another) B.) Measure sizing ball. Sub section C.) The .300BLK cases Im running right now (just loaded for the second time) have only had 1 .300BLK loading on them. Granted they are .223/5.56 range pickups, but I would assume even if they had work hardened from .223/5.56 reloading, cutting at the case shoulder then trimming would negate this. Also something to note, I loaded at minimum charge (16.6 lilgun) and did not notice any blown primers, but did have ejector marks, as well as some case bottoms (where the case rim meets the bottom of the case) swell to where I could not slide the case into my shell holder. No over pressure ring though. This happened with around 12 of 150 cases. |
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Shot my rem 700 sps today with the chrono and got some good groups using RE-7 and my NOE 247311 cast bullets.Used Rem reformed brass,no annealing or neck-turning.Rem brass usually doesn't need it.With rem 7 1/2 primers and 11.3 grains RE-7 I was getting 7 shot groups under half inch at 50 yards.Average velocity was 1005 fps and SD was 19 fps.This same load shoots 1 inch in my AR but don't shoot cast much in it now that the bolt gun shoots better and easier to clean.
Another load that shot well in PMC brass was 10.7 grains 1680,little under an inch but higher ES and SD.The 300BLK likes around 1000fps for accurate sub-sonic loads.The RE-7 load is the best I've tried with cast bullets.Shoots fairly clean and quiet. For condum bullets 10.6 grains 1680 shoots 208 A-maxs into half inch at 50 yards in AR.Cycles well and shoots quiet.Supers are easy to get good groups at 100 using 296 with 125 grain softpoints.Sierra 125's shoot 1 inch at 100 using 19 grains 296 in AR.Probably shoot sub MOA in bolt gun.Subs are much more fun to shoot to me.Nice not needing to wear ear muffs. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead: So suggestions are... A.) Sort mixed head stamps. (Im assuming use same charge, just expect a poi shift when going from one headstamp to another) B.) Measure sizing ball. Sub section C.) The .300BLK cases Im running right now (just loaded for the second time) have only had 1 .300BLK loading on them. Granted they are .223/5.56 range pickups, but I would assume even if they had work hardened from .223/5.56 reloading, cutting at the case shoulder then trimming would negate this. Also something to note, I loaded at minimum charge (16.6 lilgun) and did not notice any blown primers, but did have ejector marks, as well as some case bottoms (where the case rim meets the bottom of the case) swell to where I could not slide the case into my shell holder. No over pressure ring though. This happened with around 12 of 150 cases. A suggestion, could you double space between sentences, it makes you post much easier to read. As far as annealing, just passing on what worked for me. If you get ejector marks, load is too hot. Doesn't matter if it's a start load, it's too hot in your gun with your component selection. Do you have any PMP (heavy cases) in your mix of brass?
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
No sir, strictly rem .223 and lake city 5.56. Ill try and remember to double space. So should I drop lower than minimum charge or change powders?
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead: No sir, strictly rem .223 and lake city 5.56. Ill try and remember to double space. So should I drop lower than minimum charge or change powders? Try using just the Rem cases, that's what I'm using. 135 gr Sierra MK, Lil'gun, I started at 16.5 grs and worked up to 18.0 grs. The 18.0 gr of Lil'gun load was a little too hot in my rifle. H-110 worked better for me with this bullet.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
I think this might be a pertinent time to bring this up. I had "grumpa" from 300blktalk, convert 500 pieces of LC 556 to 300 BLK for me, and they have functioned flawlessly. I purchased an additional 500 pieces from the EE on this board and have had nothing but trouble. The bolt will not properly close and will get stuck a few MM before going into battery, I am having a difficult time extracting the round, and find that I need to mortar the rifle to extract the round. I have measured the case necks of both the good and bad brass and they all appear to be within spec.
I noticed that on the bad brass, the brass would stick out just a MM or two in the wilson case gauge, and I adjusted the sizing die so low, that it is camming over on the top of the stroke, I do not believe this to be a head space issue Any thoughts? |
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Originally Posted By DJTHEMAC:
I think this might be a pertinent time to bring this up. I had "grumpa" from 300blktalk, convert 500 pieces of LC 556 to 300 BLK for me, and they have functioned flawlessly. I purchased an additional 500 pieces from the EE on this board and have had nothing but trouble. The bolt will not properly close and will get stuck a few MM before going into battery, I am having a difficult time extracting the round, and find that I need to mortar the rifle to extract the round. I have measured the case necks of both the good and bad brass and they all appear to be within spec. I noticed that on the bad brass, the brass would stick out just a MM or two in the wilson case gauge, and I adjusted the sizing die so low, that it is camming over on the top of the stroke, I do not believe this to be a head space issue Any thoughts? Is the case OAL too long? |
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Blah blah blah..
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COAL with the 220 subs was 2.120 and more like 2.115ish
the brass was trimmed to 1.362 ish |
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double tap
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Originally Posted By DJTHEMAC:
COAL with the 220 subs was 2.120 and more like 2.115ish the brass was trimmed to 1.362 ish both batches of brass the same length? or is the non working stuff a bit longer? |
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Blah blah blah..
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Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Originally Posted By DJTHEMAC:
COAL with the 220 subs was 2.120 and more like 2.115ish the brass was trimmed to 1.362 ish both batches of brass the same length? or is the non working stuff a bit longer? both same length as far as I could tell, no noticable difference in brass trim to length |
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Just a quick question about my ejector markings previously mentioned at minimum powder load. To be completely fair, I tumble, then spray with hornandy one shot, then decap/size, then prime, charge, and seat bullet, never cleaning off the case lube. Could the left over lube be causing increased bolt thrust causing "false" ejector markings?
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead: Yes, always remove case lube.Just a quick question about my ejector markings previously mentioned at minimum powder load. To be completely fair, I tumble, then spray with hornandy one shot, then decap/size, then prime, charge, and seat bullet, never cleaning off the case lube. Could the left over lube be causing increased bolt thrust causing "false" ejector markings? |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Alrighty, picking up lizard litter crushed walnut tonight. Next loadout Ill tumble before with coarse walnut then again after with fine walnut and we'll see how spent brass looks afterwards. Will report back.
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Sorry Gents quick Q for you. Would you consider using 5.56 Blank brass as a starting point for 300 BlkOut?
I'm on a .gov computer so search doesn't seem to work for me. |
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Originally Posted By Grunzen:
Sorry Gents quick Q for you. Would you consider using 5.56 Blank brass as a starting point for 300 BlkOut? I'm on a .gov computer so search doesn't seem to work for me. There have been some threads on this. So far I haven't seen anyone post results with 300BLK, but there has been good results with the blanks cut down to 5.56. I collected a few hundred on a training site with the intent to cut them down into 300 BLK. There shouldn't be a problem with it. |
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LC 5.56 is what ive been using.
Hey Hawcer, can you make me one please? :) Legit question, I loaded up some .300BLK with lilgun with fmj hpbt. I need to remove the case lube. Is it advisable to tumble completed rounds in a vibratory tumbler with crushed walnut? Ive heard mixed feelings about this. Not so much the accidental explosion issue, but the fact the powder will break down from the vibration. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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You can tumble loaded rounds to delube.
The powder break down myth is a myth, if you get my drift.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By Grunzen: Sorry Gents quick Q for you. Would you consider using 5.56 Blank brass as a starting point for 300 BlkOut? I'm on a .gov computer so search doesn't seem to work for me. I would give it a try, but I don't have any blanks. Was a well done thread, using blanks to load 223. Without search, go to the last page of the forum, there you will see the toggled threads, green arrow icon, that keeps the thread out of the archives. Start at the back of the forum and work foward, was about 4 pages of these toggled threads last time I looked.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By Grunzen:
Sorry Gents quick Q for you. Would you consider using 5.56 Blank brass as a starting point for 300 BlkOut? I'm on a .gov computer so search doesn't seem to work for me. Yes. I Have successfully used for 5.56 live and 300 blk Here is a great write up http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/362105_Can_5_56_M200_blanks_be_reloaded_as_live_ammo__Update__on_3rd_firing__56k_do_not_click_.html |
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C co 2/325th AIR 91-96 11B1P
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Silly question, how do you know when all the case lube is tumbled off? Just when the greasy feeling is gone?
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead:
Silly question, how do you know when all the case lube is tumbled off? Just when the greasy feeling is gone? If you are using clean media, it will be obvious when the cases goes from being dusty to shiny. |
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C co 2/325th AIR 91-96 11B1P
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I am using clean media, however the crushed walnut (lizard bedding) I have is pretty dusty in itself, so my cases are still a little dusty(er) since I ran the, through. I put a couple used dryer sheets in there to try and absorb as much as possible but its still pretty dusty.
Ps, Is there anyway in reloading to factory crimp primers? Even with the lowest charge using lilgun or h110 alike, Ill get a blown out primer on maybe 12 out of 200 rounds. Its kind of aggravating being at the range and a spent primer falls between the bolt face and barrel extension not allowing the bcg to go into full lockup and having to fish it out. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead: I am using clean media, however the crushed walnut (lizard bedding) I have is pretty dusty in itself, so my cases are still a little dusty(er) since I ran the, through. I put a couple used dryer sheets in there to try and absorb as much as possible but its still pretty dusty. Ps, Is there anyway in reloading to factory crimp primers? Even with the lowest charge using lilgun or h110 alike, Ill get a blown out primer on maybe 12 out of 200 rounds. Its kind of aggravating being at the range and a spent primer falls between the bolt face and barrel extension not allowing the bcg to go into full lockup and having to fish it out. Loose primer pockets or too hot of a load. No, no primer crimper I'm aware of. Bring your loads into spec and the problem will go away. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
How can i tell if its a loose primer pocket or a load too hot? I do the table tap test when i prime them and the primer didn't move or fall out. For the bullet weight im using lilgun produces the lowest pressures and i started at the minimum load with oal set with the ogive vs. Mag feed rib technique so what shoukd I do? Lighter bullet?
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Loose primer pocket, when you prime if you feel a case that didn't take much pressure to prime, that cases is suspect.
I use a Lee manual decapper. Mine are mounted on a block of wood to have a place to store punch. If I can push the primer out of the case with the pressure of my palm on the punch, I scrap that case. If primer doesn't move, I load that case. Are your loads that show pressure signs all of the same headstamp? With range brass, you could be loading brass that is well past it's prime. Can you convert some once fired, same headstamp, cases and do the work up over?
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Some of the cases Im having issues with are rem .223, some 5.56 LC. They feel solid going in, but they are range pickups so its a very good possibility they are past their prime. I think ill try your method of a manual decapper to check for pocket looseness and see where that takes me.
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Well, I loaded up 10 rounds of my cut/reformed brass with Wolf SRM primers, 8.7 grains of Lil Gun, and for bullets the 230 grain lead bullets I cast using a Lee 300 blackout-specific mold (lead's a mix of wheel weights, a little bit of 50/50 solder, some buckshot (I've got about 200 lbs of coarse buckshot that was given to me), and a bit of linotype. Hope they feed just fine when I try them out tomorrow. Not sure what the accuracy will be. These are the few cases that I didn't anneal yet, so we'll see how they do. Heck, if I can just get them to feed, go bang, and hold back the bolt on the last round I'll be happy.
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Luke 22:36 - And Jesus said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.
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I'm getting ready to cut a few 5.56 blanks and size them. Will report back is blanks will work for 300BLK.
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Same headstamp made a considerable differnece. No more random wingers. Had a few that had blown out primers but I chuck that up to brass with unknown previous firings. Next loadout Im going with known once fired brass.
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead:
Same headstamp made a considerable differnece. No more random wingers. Had a few that had blown out primers but I chuck that up to brass with unknown previous firings. Next loadout Im going with known once fired brass. sometimes a really weak load will also cause the primers to unseat as well. If you do some research in a good reloading manual it will explain whay. I have had it happen to me and trust me it will happen. |
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