I dropped by the local firehouse today and found that there are no restrictions on a personal home in NC or the city.

What they did do was suggest that if I have any powder in the home, to not store it near the water heater (it won't be) and to also let them know in their system so that if they had to respond, the firefighters would not have a tragic occurrence from an explosion AND that they could hopefully hit the area first.

While I am reluctant to let any computer hold "10 pounds of gun powder at home XYZ" it is a very valid point.

Would you report to the fire department any stored gunpowder?

Walsh

I wouldnt and don't.  Smokeless powder isn't explosive unless confined.  The gas in my gasoline cans in the garage probably pose a bigger hazard than smokeless

Why not store it in the gun safe (on an outside wall if possible) and be done with it?

Brett

Sir, my answer would depend on what you mean by gunpowder.  Smokeless powder that I use to reload metallic cartridges is in my garage on my loading bench shelves.  I do not believe it is any more volitile than other flamables I also have in my garage including two two gallon cans of gasoline.  The gas fired hot water heater in my garage is at least ten feet away from either of these flamables.  I recognize the flamability of gasoline as significantly greater than smokeless gunpowder, at least the powder is stored in containers that will not allow internal pressures to build to dangerous levels.  In Virginia there are statutory limitations on the amount of gasoline one can have on premises of a private home but I know of no similar limitation on smokeless powder.

I make it a point on the other hand to never have more than two one pound cans of black powder in my home.  That I keep in an upstairs closet shelf when I'm not using it to reload.  No I would not report to the local FD that I have any of these materials on premises.  Fire departments routinely treat garages as being likely to contain flamables, smokeless powder IMHO does not aggravate that circumstance.  7zero1 out.

why would you do that? there is no reason to let anyone know, firefighters; god bless them, take on much more dangerous situations in home fires than gun powder. you should probably go down to the police station and let them know where you hide your guns also, you know, just in case there is a confiscation order.

Use the saem labels required in commercial operations.  That way, emergency workers can take the proper precautions if need be.  The idea that any records they keep of you would be available to the actual responders in an emergency is laughable.  No system works like that.

If you store enough powder or ammo at home to make it a consideration, stick with the standard labeling that all fire fighters are trained to recognize.

I know for small arms ammo, it is this:



Powder is probably the same, or it might be considered a flammable solid.  Your supplier would know - stores that stoick the stuff in enough quantity are required to use the properly label.

Smokeless powder stored in plastic are not an explosive threat. Even the tin cans aren't really. They are designed to give under low pressure to prevent an explosion. Store your powder on an open shelf or in a cabinet that is not considered a secure type like a safe. This way if you do have a fire you are much more likely to just add some brilliant colors as the powder burns off.

Don't go and invite the government into your home man.  No reason for you to seek the FD's approval or opinion on storing powder.

Well now you just contained it, causing a possible explosion. Not to mention that Fire resistant safes are just that. Fire "resistant". If it get hot enough in the safe you just doomed your guns to a horrible death.

The LP tank for your grill is a much greater hazard than some powder in their original containers.

What about primers?  Its my understanding (probably wrong) that these are a greater hazard than the powder...

Not if stored correctly.  Put em all loose in a container and you have a bomb.

I'm on both sides of this argument......I hoard reloading stuff and I'm a fireman.

Smokeless powder is not a big deal to me.  I'm more worried about aerosol cans and the small propane cylinders.  Primers.....well that's a little different.  I'm not sure how they would react, but I have heard that one can spark many.  Like most people, I have several thousand stacked on top of one another, so that's probably not too safe.  

You are not obligated to tell anyone anything about what you are keeping.  In my area, it's safer to assume that everyone has a pound or two of powder (lots of muzzleloading around here).  If you have a fire, tell them when they pull up.

The best thing to do is not burn down your house.

In Minnesota, you can have 20lbs of smokeless or 50lbs of smokeless if stored in a wooden crate in a single family home.  You can also have 10,000 primers in your home.  By State Fire Code, you cannot have powder or primers in multi-family homes such as apartments.  There is no restriction on finished rounds.

As to notification, do you want everyone and their brother knowing what you have in your home?  If your house is on fire and you call 911 and the fire department knows you have powder or ammo stored in the home, they most likely will not make entry and will let your house burn to the ground.

I'm not advocating not telling your responding FD upon arrival.  I'd be pissed if on an interior attack I found myself in a reloading room.

total 1+ to that.

I am glad one of our firemen came on here and reaffirmed my own thoughts - just don't burn your house down.  Don't do your own electrical if not qualified, keep CO detectors on for gas leaks, don't leave candles and cigarettes burning, etc.

The question is how many of us have a fire extinguisher in place by our reloading stuff?  One of the first things I bought actually and hanging on the wall it really doesn't take up much space.

They make this neat test medium called a campfire...

Having accidentally detonated a few in a Lee Loader with my finger nearby, I doubt they'd be any worse than large firecrackers.

I'm not even sure what the regulations are here, but I'm sure that I'm not following them.

If the fire originated in your reloading room, the powder would most likely be
comsumed by the time my engine would arrive. It's not something I concern
myself with to any great extent. Living in an old mining community, as I do,
we're more concerned with the dynamite some of the old boot-leggers had
stashed. Fire burns up(yeah I know-No shit). Point being unless you reload on
your 1st or 2nd floor, the home will be doused and water will be in your basement
reloading area. Lot of variables here. All that being said, I don't have a choice,
all the guys in my company know I reload and where all my stuff is.

The fact fact that you would ask that question makes me nervous........

These regulations come out of the State Fire Code which is the 2006 International Fire Code.  If your state has adopted the 2006 IFC, then these rules are in place.

Nope, negative, uh-uh,don't do it.

My Dad is an inspector, he tells me stories all the time about people's ammo stock going up. powder flashes are quick and fast so it never bothers them, just don't top off your powder containers. you may hate having 4 pounds in 4 jars that are half full, but if you pack it all in 2 jars it can become more dangerous..  not exploding dangerous, but more dangerous.

i live in a small town so when there is a house fire fully involved sometimes ill go watch the house burn, give the guys gatoraid as they rotate through and I have heard ammo go off, usually at that point the house is toast so they just pull everyone out. rule of thumb for ammo, put it in a safe. if its in a real safe and it stars popping its not going to hurt anyone. even though ammo on its own going off is nothing like shooting it from a gun, there is still a slight risk that one could kill someone.  

ammo in general doesn't go off all at ounce when it hits a certain temperature, its a lot more like popcorn. so if one goes off, odds are there will be more. a sign in your house is always nice, just make sure its not paper :p get a good metal one made up and put it outside your room weather it says "ammunition reloading supplies inside" or just the standard explosive sign. it could save someone who is trying to help, or their family, form having a really bad day.

In my state you can store 25# in original containers. I bought a paint storage locker as at times I have a bit more than that. I vented the back of the paint locker outside with a asbestos gasket.

I talked to my homeowners insurance to find out what they thought about storing powder. She told me that as long it met state regulation I would be good to go. State law states 50# in a plywood box ETC, ETC. So I have gone beyond their regulations.

I don't think I would go to the fire department and tell them, but if they asked I would not lie.

I would worry more about my ammo fort though, it has the potential to do much more damage in a fire.

Not to correct you but, I am a truck driver and haul ammo and explosives for a living and the 1.4 placard is loaded ammo but gun powder ships as 1.3 a slightly higher class. If your driving down the freeway and see 1.3 placards it is either (in most cases) powder or powder charges for military projectiles. NEVER ATEMPT TO FIGHT AN EXPLOSIVE FIRE!!! 1.2 placards are a little higher on the scale of things. 1.1 is stuff like bombs and cruise missles with high explosive levels and in the event of fire one should evacuate in the 1 mile minimum range. Just a bit of educational foruming for you all.

I'm thinking.......NO....... if I were to alert the firemen in my litte ozark home, they'd probably try to break in and steal it as most reload around here. Some know I do but they have no idea what I have or where I keep it...

hmm..  When I was a dock boy for USF Holland, we got a lot of shipments form Federal because they are right down the road from Holland.. I don't nesessarily remember any placards on our trucks, though I'm sure they had to... maybe the drivers pulled them out before they backed the trailers into the dock...

man If i could just get a fork in one of those trucks and just drop one, just one pallet into my car I would be shooting free for life...

Heck, I freely admitted I wasn't sure in what category powder fell.  I appreciate your input,  My only point was - those placards are the best way to warn first responders about a potential hazard, should that be a concern.

A fire call cross-referenced against a hazards database and a dispatcher transmitting warnings to fire trucks about items in a personal house?  That's Hollywood bullshit.

Actually, a lot of the CAd systems have alert fields.  Upside when they click on your address the hazards/cautions will pop up and dispatch can relay the info.  The downside it ain't just the fire department in that type of system.

The placards are an interesting idea.

I just told one of the guys I work with who is on my VFD my house catches on fire stand back and hose down the neighbors houses.  He said OK.(and for the tinfoilers no I did not get a flag in the dispatch computer over it).

some FD's will stand back and watch the house burn if they know there is powder in the home.
bad move on telling them. is powder more dangerous than gas? hell no. have some dept's watched a reloaders house burn? yes.

So, out of some perceived fear that they might just let your house burn, you are willing to keep first responders ignorant of any unusual hazards they face in your house, potentially putting their lives at risk?

Fascinating.

Insurance is the answer.

This is a stupid idea.  Because you have now turned a relatively harmless situation
into a BOMB.

When my house burned down, you want to know how I knew the stuff in my safe
was toast?  Because there was a bullet hole in it FROM THE INSIDE (from a loaded
pistol).

If you went to the local Firehouse for this question, you went to the wrong place. You need to talk to the Local Fire Marshal or a Fire Inspector. The guys at the station have no idea whats in the fire codes. Some localaties have regualtions regarding storage and some don't. Here is something I found from BATFE.



ATF Ruling 2002-3
18 U.S.C. 842(j): STORAGE OF EXPLOSIVES
27 CFR 55.208(b)(1), 55.210(b)(1), and 55.211(b)(1): INDOOR STORAGE OF EXPLOSIVES IN A RESIDENCE OR DWELLING
ATF will approve variances to store explosives in a residence or dwelling only upon certain conditions including, but not limited to, receipt of a certification of compliance with State and local law, and documentation that local fire safety officials have received a copy of the certification.
ATF Rul. 2002-3
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has received questions concerning indoor storage of explosives in a residence or dwelling and whether such storage must comply with State or local law.
Section 842(j) of 18 U.S.C. states: "It shall be unlawful for any person to store any explosive material in a manner not in conformity with regulations promulgated by the Secretary."
The regulations in 27 CFR 55.208(b)(1), 55.210(b)(1), and 55.211(b)(1) specify that no indoor magazine is to be located in a residence or dwelling. Section 55.22 specifies that the Director may allow alternate methods or procedures in lieu of a method or procedure specifically prescribed in the regulations. Specifically, section 55.22(a)(3) provides that such "variances" are permissible only in certain circumstances, including where "[t]he alternate method or procedure will not be contrary to any provision of law and will not . . . hinder the effective administration of this part."
ATF has been advised that certain variances previously approved for storage of explosives in residences or dwellings are in violation of State or local zoning law. ATF believes it is important to ensure that approval of variances is in compliance with all State and local provisions.
To obtain a variance for indoor storage of explosives in a residence or dwelling, ATF has determined that a person must submit to ATF a certification signed under penalty of perjury along with the request for the variance. The certification must:
1.State that the proposed alternative storage method will comply with all applicable State and local law;
2.Provide the name, title, address, and phone number of the authority having jurisdiction for fire safety of the locality in which the explosive materials are being stored; and,
3.Demonstrate that the person has mailed or delivered the certification to the authority identified in (2).
When required by the Director, such persons must furnish other documentation as may be necessary to determine whether a variance should be approved.
Held, ATF will approve variances to store explosives in a residence or dwelling only upon certain conditions including, but not limited to, receipt of a certification of compliance with State and local law, and documentation that local fire safety officials have received a copy of the certification.
Date signed: August 23, 2002

That depends on your city, He could have been speaking to the Investigator. a lot of times the Investigator/Marshall is a regular firefighter and an Investigator. and really most fire code is just common sense law.

Except that, for the fifth time, smokeless powder is not an explosive. It's simple, and everyone stating to the contrary just gives credibility to the ignorant hoplophobes who want regulate this aspect of our daily lives too.

Propane gas, gasoline, and smokeless powder all all quick-burning substances. Of these, gasoline is probably the most dangerous, because its vapors become explosive at the lowest concentration. Tests have shown that even in vehicles that have caught fire, compressed gases are less likely to explode than the gasoline fuel tanks, and if you think about it, it makes sense - all compressed gas (liquid or not) tanks have safety valves, so that when engulfed, you get a jet of flame out the valve, and the tank is now inert.

The exception to this are aerosol cans that use propane or butane as propellant, like hairsprays and WD-40. Pressure will built until the vessel fails, at which time the gases therein will be in an ideal position to ignite; that's generally bad.

Primers are obviously an entirely different matter, but with all explosives, and quick-burning substances designed to produce lots of gas, it's what contains it that makes all the difference. Cardboard boxes full of primers will burn with popping noises (ladyfingers at best, if you remember those) and not much more (try it!). Ammo will sound like a bigger firecracker; throw a 9mm round into your next campfire and prepare to be underwhelmed.

All I am saying is c'mon people, read your material safety data sheets. They are there for a reason.

Deleted as ? was answered

Walsh

P.S. Thanks to all who contributed. I looked through the site here but didn't locate info on the questions I asked. If they are there somewhere, perhaps someone who can search better than I can add them to this thread.

Because I considered the fact that someone's life could be at risk. Silly me for asking a question. Thanks for the response.

Bless your heart,
Walsh

A wonderful town! LOL

Walsh

Really? That's interesting....seriously.

I asked a question because I didn't learn all I did in life by osmosis. I now know that not only is there a sign, but there can be a specific sign used and recognized, thereby saving me any consideration of notifying anyone to ensure the safety of others.

I wouldn't have know otherwise.

I live, I ask questions, I learn. Not exactly "I think, therefore I am", but not being French I didn't want to steal from Descartes (I know not to pronounce the "s" though)

Walsh

Actually, I didn't post specifically I spoke to a captain.

They called up the captain and I spoke to him as they weren't positive. Then when I went home I looked up the FD staff and he is the guy who deals in all of these issues including inspections. For example, he told me if I had 10 propane tanks on a deck for a private residence its is not problem, but he doesn't recommend it. He said (I beleive) that if I were not the owner of the home, a question he asked a few times, the laws can be/are different.

Thanks,
Walsh

Then why was there a 1.4 sticker on the box last time I ordered powder?



 

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/rules/?id=7500.3500 funny there is no distinction about dwelling type?

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/rules/?id=7500.3600 again there is no distinction mentioned