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Posted: 12/6/2019 4:57:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Duck hunting.
But seriously, my agency got rid of all our shotguns quite a while ago and I can't think of one nearby agency which still issues them. A carbine is vastly superior for almost all situations. |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 5:14:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Yep, shotguns are for birds. The "tactical" shotgun needs to go away as the oddity of history that it is.
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Posted: 12/6/2019 5:15:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Clay games, bird hunting?
Seriously though, breaching would be kinda hard with an AR. When I lived in the PRK a pump shotgun was the best and easiest to reload. You live on a chunk of woods with porcupines, bears, deer, and occasional moose I like having the 12g with a tube of 00buck and a side saddle of slug. |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 5:16:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Not LEO, but...
Ww1 I think it was, shotguns had a demoralizing effect on german soldiers in trench warfare. I'm not debating, but there's something to that. Discuss |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 5:18:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Drones?
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Posted: 12/6/2019 5:22:51 PM EDT
[#6]
I trigger pull, 27x.23 caliber pellets.
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Posted: 12/6/2019 5:31:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not LEO, but... Ww1 I think it was, shotguns had a demoralizing effect on german soldiers in trench warfare. I'm not debating, but there's something to that. Discuss In the Philippine Insurrection, they worked very well. |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 5:36:44 PM EDT
[#8]
That's why they used brass shotshells.
Also the Germans complained to the Geneva convention that shotguns were immoral for use against people. They were great trench weapons. |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 5:46:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's why they used brass shotshells. Also the Germans complained to the Geneva convention that shotguns were immoral for use against people. They were great trench weapons. 1. Soft Lead Ammunition. 2. Ammunition/Arms specifically designed to cause wounding and undue suffering. The Geneva Convention didn't exist yet. 00 Buck at a distance does cause undue suffering and wounding. Their complaint was sound and based in fact. |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 5:59:07 PM EDT
[#10]
I have both available for duty use and use the shotgun ig going into a residence or other building smaller than a walmart.
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Posted: 12/6/2019 6:04:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Rogue trap machine/assailant armed with clay thrower.
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Posted: 12/6/2019 7:07:32 PM EDT
[#12]
when faced with large angry beasts intent on turning you into a turd....12ga. with good slugs....
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Posted: 12/6/2019 7:16:32 PM EDT
[#13]
meat from bone ... somebody had to say it!
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Posted: 12/6/2019 7:25:41 PM EDT
[#14]
My Benelli Super 90 M1 is my goto for short range trouble . It is very comforting.
I built a pistol AR that I'm still learning , its looking promising to take over . 
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Posted: 12/6/2019 7:47:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not LEO, but... Ww1 I think it was, shotguns had a demoralizing effect on german soldiers in trench warfare. I'm not debating, but there's something to that. Discuss |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 7:51:48 PM EDT
[#16]
3" Slugs > 5.56 for these?
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Posted: 12/6/2019 7:57:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brass Shells did not make it over seas. And they were issued is tint numbers. Standard paper shells made it. As for the Germans filing a complaint. They're technically right. If a shotgun is fired from a distance, the pellets will wound and Hague Agreement bans the following. 1. Soft Lead Ammunition. 2. Ammunition/Arms specifically designed to cause wounding and undue suffering. The Geneva Convention didn't exist yet. 00 Buck at a distance does cause undue suffering and wounding. Their complaint was sound and based in fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's why they used brass shotshells. Also the Germans complained to the Geneva convention that shotguns were immoral for use against people. They were great trench weapons. 1. Soft Lead Ammunition. 2. Ammunition/Arms specifically designed to cause wounding and undue suffering. The Geneva Convention didn't exist yet. 00 Buck at a distance does cause undue suffering and wounding. Their complaint was sound and based in fact. |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 8:21:40 PM EDT
[#18]
 Archer - Placebo Effect - Family Feud - Vincent Van Go Fuck Yourself , Archer Rampage |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 8:25:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Uber reliable 12 ga w good sites is a good friend maybe esp at nite .
I suck w single bead site . AR s for distance . |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 8:46:21 PM EDT
[#20]
At close range the shotgun can be quite devastating. It's still a solid home defense choice. I prefer a very reliable semi-auto with 00 buckshot. One pull of the trigger and 9 pellets hit the target, giving a greater chance of hitting the vitals. Basically like being shot 9 times with a handgun. Of course rifles have special effect being that the rounds are going over double the sound of speed. So rifle shot for individual shotgun pellet or handgun wound, the rifle clearly wins here. Dump a 9 round full-auto burst of rifle fire, that's way better than a single shotgun round. But can't beat the speed of the shotgun, I mean it's all instant boom 9 rounds in one shot. Full-auto burst will be like a second long. Rifle rounds can also defeat body armor. And if there's a hostage situation a single well placed shot, the rifle wins here. I also like that a rifle can be much shorter and lighter and suppressed easier and has less recoil and holds more ammo and can be reloaded much faster!! So yeah full-auto shorty suppressed rifle wins hands down for me. But what if you don't have full-auto or a suppressor or anyone else living with you. Well then the shotgun is looking more appealing then. Honestly both rifle and shotgun are great choices and are better than a handgun.
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Posted: 12/6/2019 9:25:01 PM EDT
[#21]
 This Is My Boomstick! Ash - Evil Dead |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 9:31:28 PM EDT
[#22]
The versitility of being able to utilize unconventional ammunition in hard times
Quite a large dump of energy behind less lethal projectiles Biden approved / liest attacked of all Also in hard times, where food needs harvesting... VERY needed IMO if you know what your doing, devastating offensive use Slugs and the perks of them Dragons breath |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 9:33:48 PM EDT
[#23]
 The best Shotgun Scene ever made :P |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 10:38:58 PM EDT
[#24]
The shotgun hate these days is ridiculous. Double tap a dude in the chest with hot #1 buck and you have a great chance of incapacitating the enemy. Is it 100%? no, but it's close. Plenty of people have been shot multiple times with rifle rounds and kept fighting as well so let's not pretend that it's magic.
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Posted: 12/6/2019 11:05:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Traveling into a ban state. I know that’s not the gist of the question but many people have shotguns that are already in compliance with ban state laws whereas ARs and the like need severe neutering and new mags and fucky grips. Pull the shotgun out of the safe and go. A 20” mossberg 500 with 8+1 can be your domicile defense weapon without needing to change anything on the gun.
Barricaded in a room with someone trying to break in, slugs or 00 might be pretty effective. Up close direct threats with small exposure areas that need to be ended now. |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 11:26:56 PM EDT
[#26]
AR-15 or M1A for 30 yards+, shotgun for anything closer, specifically a 590 loaded with 8+1 Federal Power-Shok 00Buck with an M7 bayonet. 12 pellets of 00Buck will do more that one rifle round, with the option to buttstroke or bayonet, coupled with the proven power of a shotgun, make my choice. Just look at the recent raid where an SAS operator armed with a shotgun smoked 5 terrorists in under 7 seconds. Along with an experienced user, a shotgun is very deadly if employed correctly. Some of the problem comes with learning to run the gun, too, as it’s not just “point, pull, and pump.”
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Posted: 12/6/2019 11:54:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Door breaching
Less lethal Bird hunting |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 11:58:08 PM EDT
[#28]
And dont forget the Yeti ! 3 " mag slug .
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Posted: 12/7/2019 12:38:31 AM EDT
[#29]
Versatility.... numerous projectile options.
In the past, #4 was fatal at 10 yards. At 50 yards, it was merely memorable... and educational in effect. That played to the law enforcement role, as well as the simplicity. That said, shooting accurately at 100 yards with a rifled slug is perishable skill with a shotgun. It is much more point and shoot with an AR, at less weight, less recoil and generally no more training. Today, breaching. Or close range bear defense. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 1:29:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's why they used brass shotshells. Also the Germans complained to the Geneva convention that shotguns were immoral for use against people. They were great trench weapons. 
But more seriously, birds, drones, and breaching probably? |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 1:57:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Birds
Doors Less Than Lethal |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 3:06:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR-15 or M1A for 30 yards+, shotgun for anything closer, I think he said it  , it sounds like something he would say.
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Posted: 12/7/2019 3:08:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Great for opening things, not as great as det cord.
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Posted: 12/7/2019 3:17:33 AM EDT
[#34]
When you care about what's on the other side of the drywall.
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Posted: 12/7/2019 9:37:43 AM EDT
[#35]
I use mine when I might encounter bears and such. Admittedly I'm not much for a shotgun thats not historical but I do think they have utility. The ammo swapping is something to consider, theres alot of different purpose rounds out there for the shotgun. I strongly prefer a rifle/carbine for 99% of social work with modern ammo, inside and out.
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Posted: 12/7/2019 11:50:27 AM EDT
[#36]
 Shotgun Revolver or Rifle for Home Defense |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 4:53:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Running/fast moving targets at close range (40 yards and in).
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Posted: 12/7/2019 7:20:40 PM EDT
[#38]
I didn’t have a very high regard for buckshot for hunting or self-defense until a Federal Flite-Control 00B was introduced a few years ago. Game changer.
This is what 9 pellet 00B FC does from an improved cylinder 22” rifle sighted tactical 2-3/4” 12 gauge barrel does at 15 yards - long home defense distance. The group is fist size. It’s only 10”x10” at a full 50 yards. You have to aim this stuff. A semiauto with 7-8 round tube magazine can put a lot of lead in a very small area very quickly. 
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Posted: 12/7/2019 9:50:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn’t have a very high regard for buckshot for hunting or self-defense until a Federal Flite-Control 00B was introduced a few years ago. Game changer. This is what 9 pellet 00B FC does from an improved cylinder 22” rifle sighted tactical 2-3/4” 12 gauge barrel does at 15 yards - long home defense distance. The group is fist size. It’s only 10”x10” at a full 50 yards. You have to aim this stuff. A semiauto with 7-8 round tube magazine can put a lot of lead in a very small area very quickly. https://i.postimg.cc/cJh7YXc9/buckshot-1b.jpg Not arguing one way or the other, but you do still need to do more than just point in the general direction and let loose. |
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Posted: 12/8/2019 3:06:34 AM EDT
[#40]
I like a shotgun for when I travel.
Have a Model 12 that takes down nicely. 30cal can with some buck, bird and slugs (lead and rubber). I might get to hunt, I may have to spank a camp raiding bear or with a rubber or put it down with some lead. Some places I go I can't bring a AR or a pistol. Shotgun is usually ok. |
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Posted: 12/8/2019 3:50:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote History Open Range Final Shootout Part 1 YouTube |
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Posted: 12/8/2019 11:12:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Breaching doors.
Slugs for large four legged apex predators. Bird hunting. |
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Posted: 12/8/2019 11:27:14 AM EDT
[#43]
I have a beretta 1301T stashed in the laundry room. I'm confident I can get the job done with 7+1 of federal 00 buck FC
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Posted: 12/8/2019 6:48:08 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 12/8/2019 9:00:13 PM EDT
[#45]
I personally think the shotgun is a great weapon. I think most departments and people are moving away from it is because of the training involved with it.
With 00 Buckshot it kicks damn hard for a lot of people. It is effective though, at the correct range. I got rid of mine because of a shoulder injury. I can't handle it anymore. Female officers would probably have the hardest time with it. The carbine is easier to shoot, takes optics easily and it much easier to train people on than a shotgun. Just think of teaching reloading and how much more complicated it is for a shotgun compared to an AR |
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Posted: 12/8/2019 10:20:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a beretta 1301T stashed in the laundry room. I'm confident I can get the job done with 7+1 of federal 00 buck FC 
That's what I do with my 1301! |
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Posted: 12/9/2019 2:09:47 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Traveling into a ban state. I know that’s not the gist of the question but many people have shotguns that are already in compliance with ban state laws whereas ARs and the like need severe neutering and new mags and fucky grips. Pull the shotgun out of the safe and go. A 20” mossberg 500 with 8+1 can be your domicile defense weapon without needing to change anything on the gun. Barricaded in a room with someone trying to break in, slugs or 00 might be pretty effective. Up close direct threats with small exposure areas that need to be ended now. |
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Posted: 12/9/2019 2:12:33 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you care about what's on the other side of the drywall. Also, hasn't it been proven that while a small but fast projectile will do better penetrating a single layer of armor.. The small size of the round will eventually break down as it travels through multiple layers? How many grains is the average buck shot pellet? |
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Posted: 12/9/2019 2:14:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like a shotgun for when I travel. Have a Model 12 that takes down nicely. 30cal can with some buck, bird and slugs (lead and rubber). I might get to hunt, I may have to spank a camp raiding bear or with a rubber or put it doown with some lead. Some places I go I can't bring a AR or a pistol. Shotgun is usually ok. |
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Posted: 12/9/2019 2:19:28 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I personally think the shotgun is a great weapon. I think most departments and people are moving away from it is because of the training involved with it. With 00 Buckshot it kicks damn hard for a lot of people. It is effective though, at the correct range. I got rid of mine because of a shoulder injury. I can't handle it anymore. Female officers would probably have the hardest time with it. The carbine is easier to shoot, takes optics easily and it much easier to train people on than a shotgun. Just think of teaching reloading and how much more complicated it is for a shotgun compared to an AR I've shot thousands of rounds through my pistols and ARs, but I only ran my shotgun once. None of the indoor ranges in my area will allow shotguns, even if it's slugs ?? I did drive to North Carolina last year to spend the day at an outdoor range, and I finally got to put some rounds through it. I can't lie, I fired only five shells and my chest was all bruised up ?? it was not enjoyable! |
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