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Posted: 5/10/2018 7:07:37 AM EDT
I'm thinking of a rifle along the lines of the Ruger Gunsite Scout. Bolt action, .308, good iron sights.
I'm just starting to look online at what's available and figured I'd check here for input, too. I'm open to a single shot, break action in addition to the bolt. The sights need to be good quality for work past 100 yards. There have been some budget guns with good accuracy hitting the market. Any thoughts on picking up one of those and having a gunsmith mount quality sights to it? If so, recommendations on after market sights? The intent is to use this for the challenge of iron sights at the range, and also for hunting. |
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Not sure of your budget, but the Tikka Arctic may fit the bill. Nice peep sights and you could also mount an optic if you want.
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Nice, but the Arctic is definitely out of reach. The Ruger Gunsite would be the upper end of my budget.
Anybody else have thoughts on this? ETA: I first looked online and saw Cabela's had the Arctic listed $2799, but just now searched some more and found other sites that have it significantly less. Looks I'll be spending some time online this weekend. |
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Nice, but the Arctic is definitely out of reach. The Ruger Gunsite would be the upper end of my budget. Anybody else have thoughts on this? ETA: I first looked online and saw Cabela's had the Arctic listed $2799, but just now searched some more and found other sites that have it significantly less. Looks I'll be spending some time online this weekend. View Quote On the Scout thing, you first have to be comfortable with, and practice, shooting with a forward-mounted IER scope. Some guys who've grown up using only receiver-mounted scopes end up not liking the scout scope forward set-up, and revert to a traditional receiver mount. All that said, and even though I love my Mini-G scouts (or faux scouts), over the winter I looked into the various bolt-action Scout offerings - Steyr, Ruger, Savage, and Mossberg. The LGS had a couple of the Ruger Scouts in stock so I was able to handle and finger-fiddle them a bit. Then I read Richard Mann's Scout Rifle (SR) book: https://www.amazon.com/Scout-Rifle-Study-History-Century/dp/1983512540 Beyond all the historical review covering Jeff Cooper's SR theories, evolution, and the various points of debate as to what makes or doesn't make a 'true' SR, Mann reviews all the current commercial models, detailing the pros and cons of each. He also gets into "custom" scout rifles built by Mastersmiths like Jim Brockman. Of all of the commercial models Mann reviews, I found that Mossberg's MVP Scout entry had the most appeal: it's the least expensive; it's the lightest in weight (6lbs, 13oz out of the box); it runs a 12" rail - with an integral aperture 'Ghost Ring' rear sight mated to a hi-viz fiber-optic front - and the rail allows for forward-mounting or receiver-mounting of a scope; it accepts the readily-available and inexpensive MagPul 7.62 PMags, while the others use expensive and (sometimes) finicky proprietary mags; and, per Mann, the Mossy held up under hard use, having fired over 1K .308 rds. He took it thru Gunsite's SR course and then took it to Africa where he shot several plains game with it. Mann's done a YouTube review of the Mossy Scout rifle, just FYI: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=be8NzsFvp1k I've got one on order now ... After it's zeroed with the iron sights, I'll be mounting another Burris 2.75x scout scope on the forward rail. Hope this helps! |
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Good info. I'm a believer in tapping into other people's experience to reduce the learning curve. That's one of the things I like about this site.
For clarification, I'm not planning on putting any glass on this. The goal is to get into the discipline of iron sights. |
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For clarification, I'm not planning on putting any glass on this. The goal is to get into the discipline of iron sights. View Quote I'm sort of an 'old(er) guy' who grew up shooting with irons sights on a number of rifles, starting with a Daisy 'peep'-sighted B.B. gun and then my Dad's old single-shot .22lr. Scoped rifles came much later. I also have a Service Rifle/Match shooting background where we shot 1903s/03A3s, Garands, and M1As - all irons only. So I can tell you that's a HUGELY important skill to develop. My Mini-G 'pseudo-scouts,' being shortened 'carbine'-length Garands, retain the M1/M1A iron-sight system which was the best ever fielded on any mil-issued rifle anywhere in the world. That said, all the commercial bolt-action Scouts mentioned above come with some form of iron sights consisting of an adjustable rear aperture ('peep' sight) and a front sight. However, they differ in how they're set up. The Mossy's rear sight is integral with the rail itself and looks to be fairly rugged. The rear sight on the Ruger GSR is regarded as the sturdiest and has protective 'wings,' somewhat like an M1. The GSR's frt sight also has protective wings. The Steyr sights, mounted on the upper frame of the stock, are flip-ups and fold down when not needed into a sort of housing. They're regarded as flimsy because they're plastic. The Savage scout sports a classic front 'post' sight and a Williams peep/Ghost Ring sight which sits on the rear of the receiver. But this rear peep is unprotected and, if the rifle was dropped or the sight banged hard on something, it could be damaged or lost. Again, just FYI. |
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I used to have a PTR91 (regret parting with it) and clay pigeons on the 100 yard berm were pretty easy with those sights. Any misses were totally my fault.
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Quoted: I've got two 'Scout'-ish 16.1" Mini-Gs (M1s) that wear Ultimak forward-rail mounts and run scout scopes. One is a .308 with the Burris 2.75x attached in low-mount Q.D. rings; the other, in '06, runs Weaver's 4x scout optic on the rail the same way ... On the Scout thing, you first have to be comfortable with, and practice, shooting with a forward-mounted IER scope. Some guys who've grown up using only receiver-mounted scopes end up not liking the scout scope forward set-up, and revert to a traditional receiver mount. All that said, and even though I love my Mini-G scouts (or faux scouts), over the winter I looked into the various bolt-action Scout offerings - Steyr, Ruger, Savage, and Mossberg. The LGS had a couple of the Ruger Scouts in stock so I was able to handle and finger-fiddle them a bit. Then I read Richard Mann's Scout Rifle (SR) book: https://www.amazon.com/Scout-Rifle-Study-History-Century/dp/1983512540 Beyond all the historical review covering Jeff Cooper's SR theories, evolution, and the various points of debate as to what makes or doesn't make a 'true' SR, Mann reviews all the current commercial models, detailing the pros and cons of each. He also gets into "custom" scout rifles built by Mastersmiths like Jim Brockman. Of all of the commercial models Mann reviews, I found that Mossberg's MVP Scout entry had the most appeal: it's the least expensive; it's the lightest in weight (6.75lbs out of the box); it runs a 12" rail - with an integral aperture 'Ghost Ring' rear sight mated to a hi-viz fiber-optic front - and the rail allows for forward-mounting or receiver-mounting of a scope; it accepts the readily-available and inexpensive MagPul 7.62 PMags, while the others use expensive and (sometimes) finicky proprietary mags; and, per Mann, the Mossy held up under hard use, having fired over 1K .308 rds. He took it thru Gunsite's SR course and then took it to Africa where he shot several plains game with it. Mann's done a YouTube review of the Mossy Scout rifle, just FYI: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=be8NzsFvp1k I've got one on order now ... After it's zeroed with the iron sights, I'll be mounting another Burris 2.75x scout scope on the forward rail. Hope this helps! View Quote |
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Maybe consider some of the Mil-Surplus bolt actions... a Mauser or 1903 comes to mind. ( Just thinking out loud )
I don't own many bolt actions. ( 1 , a 1903 Springfield ) But I would tend to think there is some thing available in a .308 or 30.06 that would have decent open sights If the Swiss K31 was still cheaply available ... as well as the ammo... I'd think that would be a decent start as well. Restock it, maybe alter a barrel length ... just a suggestion ( And perhaps a Lever Action ? 1886 or a Browning BLR ) Ruger No. 1's CZ-USA has quite a few open sight models as well. SAKO... Savage makes a Scout M110 as well.. http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110Scout Mossberg... with the option to use .308AR or M14 magazines. http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/mvp-series/ Gotta say... not as many readily available Open sighted rifles as I was hoping for ?! |
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The problem with books is that products are changed and the books cant be updated. The Ruger GSR's with the shorter barrels and synthetic stocks weigh less than the Mossberg by over half a pound. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
The problem with books is that products are changed and the books cant be updated. The Ruger GSR's with the shorter barrels and synthetic stocks weigh less than the Mossberg by over half a pound. Mann covers all 9 models of the Ruger GSR, including the two 16.1" synthetic-stocked models, which differ only by the metal used: stainless-steel model (sku #6829), and blue-steel model (sku #6830). Both synthetic-stocked GSRs come out of the box at 6.2lbs, per Mann who weighed them, while the Mossy weighs 6lbs,13oz out of the box. In fact, Mann weighed the Mossy's synthetic stock itself separately and got a whole 29oz. But even if the Mossy weighed a bit more than the synthetic GSRs, it's still within Cooper's SR weight-specs (which is not the case with Ruger's wood stocked GSRs), and more importantly, any slight weight advantage of the Ruger is more than off-set by the Mossy's ability to use MagPul's 7.62/SR-25-pattern polymer mags. The Ruger GSR's mags are proprietary, spendy, and, reportedly, feed-finicky, or at least the early ones were. Here's a 2014 AAR of a Gunsite Scout Rifle course in which the reviewer notes several GSRs malf-ing badly ... https://www.ar15.com/forums/training/Gunsite___Scout_Rifle_Class/19-233966/ I'm well stocked up on Magpul 7.62s mags for my .308 AR, so I'm GTG on the mag issue. There are things I liked on the Ruger GSRs, like the CRF action, and I think Ruger's iron sight set-up is the best and sturdiest of the commercial offerings. It's a well-built gun, but the base model they should've used to build a line of .308 GSRs was the now-discontinued and lighter-weight 16" Frontier. That, and if Ruger would've built its Scout to accept the 7.62 MagPuls, I'd have already bought the stainless model just for the extra bit of durability in cold/wet climates. I don't know what accuracy the Mossy's are getting but my experience with GSR's is that they are sub-MOA if you find a load they like. I looked hard at the Mossy but I never found one that had a decent stock, every one of them felt like I was shouldering a cinderblock. The bolt seems to work fine but the potential for weirdness is there, I haven't heard of a lot of them failing like was predicted early on. Their sights I also couldn't stand but that's a personal preference thing and is also pretty easy to change. On your Mossy stock comment, be sure you're handling an MVP 'Scout,' not the blockier-feeling MVP 'Patrol' rifle. Different rifles, different stocks, different weights. I've handled several of the MVP Patrol rifles (.223 & 308) and didn't like the feel of the stocks nor their overall weight as compared to the MVP Scout. |
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You're right I didn't read the book. I went to brick and mortar stores until I could handle the rifles I was looking at when I decided on the GSR. I'm sure that at least some of the Mossbergs were their Scout offering though some might well have been the Patrol. All their stocks felt the same to me, as if they cut costs on actually designing one and just figured rough cutting a 2x4 was close enough. I do remember at least a few of them having the longer scout rails though, so I'm sure not all were Patrol rifles.
Ruger GSR magazines are not proprietory, though they are not cheap, they are AICS pattern. I had two Ruger magazines that were left loaded for about a year and a half. These were the early style which Ruger replaced free of charge. And now Magpul offers the AICS pattern so mags are a wash IMO. 20 rounds in a bolt gun is to much IMO, if it works for others then great. I thought I wanted a stainless GSR but my first was abused pretty hard and never had a hiccup. Left outside in the back of pickups, bounced around in a trucked full of fence posts. One time I even tossed it off of a 4 wheeler while out moving cows. Still shot great and never game me an issues save the 2 early magazines that I already mentioned. That review sounds like early extractor issues to me. I've heard of other GSR's with that issue though that is a lot all at once. For the price I do admit the Ruger GSR is a little rough. I disassemble mine when I first get them and spend a few hours with my small file set and some sandpaper and clean up the internals. Again I've never had an issue. I'm on my second one (my first was stolen). |
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* * * * * * Ruger GSR magazines are not proprietory, though they are not cheap, they are AICS pattern. I had two Ruger magazines that were left loaded for about a year and a half. These were the early style which Ruger replaced free of charge. And now Magpul offers the AICS pattern so mags are a wash IMO. 20 rounds in a bolt gun is to much IMO, if it works for others then great. I thought I wanted a stainless GSR but my first was abused pretty hard and never had a hiccup. Left outside in the back of pickups, bounced around in a trucked full of fence posts. One time I even tossed it off of a 4 wheeler while out moving cows. Still shot great and never game me an issues save the 2 early magazines that I already mentioned. View Quote * * * Thanks for the heads up on the Ruger GSR accepting Magpul's AICS-pattern mags. I'll take a look at their round-capacity options. It may incline me to take another look at the stainless GSR in the synthetic stock ... Would really like a light-weight, hard-use outdoor CRF bolt gun. Yeah, I wouldn't run any bolt rifle with a 20-rd mag either. It's just too awkward. I'd planned to only run the 10-rd 7.62 Magpul's in the Mossy anyway or, if hunting, a 10-rd mag with Magpul's 5-rd limiter installed. |
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Nice, but the Arctic is definitely out of reach. The Ruger Gunsite would be the upper end of my budget. Anybody else have thoughts on this? ETA: I first looked online and saw Cabela's had the Arctic listed $2799, but just now searched some more and found other sites that have it significantly less. Looks I'll be spending some time online this weekend. View Quote |
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That Savage Hog Hunter has a 20" barrel, much more ideal barrel length to me.
Change over to a Williams rear sight and a different front blade height , I can't tell if it can be adapted to a higher capacity mag. 7.3 lbs... That one appeals to me. This thread has me interested in getting a bolt action. |
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That Savage Hog Hunter .... * * * I can't tell if it can be adapted to a higher capacity mag. 7.3 lbs. That one appeals to me. This thread has me interested in getting a bolt action. View Quote |
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I would get a CZ 550FS in 308. I would already have one but muh rotator cuff
But I love CZ rifles , I just have to shoot .22's for a while longer. |
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I would get a CZ 550FS in 308. I would already have one but muh rotator cuff But I love CZ rifles , I just have to shoot .22's for a while longer. View Quote If so, the OP might want to hurry and find one ... CZ is said to phasing-out its non-Magnum line of 550 CRF rifles in favor of the push-feed 557 models. CZ will retain the 550's CRF action for the Big Bruiser (African) cartridges. |
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An AR10 is on my wish list for acquisitions, but this project is a little different.
I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I play one in the movies. Would it be practical to take a rifle like a Winchester XPR and add sights to it? I mean good, useful sights that are suitable for longer ranges. Of course, that brings up the question of availability of good aftermarket sights. More research... |
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An AR10 is on my wish list for acquisitions, but this project is a little different. I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I play one in the movies. Would it be practical to take a rifle like a Winchester XPR and add sights to it? I mean good, useful sights that are suitable for longer ranges. Of course, that brings up the question of availability of good aftermarket sights. More research... View Quote |
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I've fired Ruger's Gunsight Scout, but I own a Mossberg MVP Scout. Honestly, the Ruger is more refined and probably more accurate. That said, I found a good deal and picked up the MVP and couldn't be happier. I did put an IER scope on mine, but the ghost ring sights on the rail are excellent. While the bolt is a little rough and you have to use it forcibly, it's been fine for me. Biggest advantage is that it feeds my M1A 10 round mags and some AR10 10 round mags I have...feeds them flawlessly, which was a great surprise. It's a heavy barrel, so that's a big reason for the weight. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/Firearms/IMAG0193_zpsehgc50tw.jpg I likely would be fine going with the Ruger, but not at all disappointed in the MVP. In fact, I'm quite impressed with how it runs, accuracy, and what it offers for the price. ROCK6 View Quote I'm running the Burris (fixed) 2.75 SS in Leupy low QRWs on the forward rail. The mags I use are MagPul's 7.62 (SR-25 pattern), which I was already well-stocked on. Don't have all that many rounds thru this Mossy yet but its function has been flawless. For a sling set-up, I attached a BFG A2 buttstock sling mount on the rear of the stock, and a Magpul RSA unit to that small piece of rail on the front-left side of the stock. That way I can run an MS1 sling (using paraclips on each end) for a 2-pt 'patrol-style' carry, while the slider on the sling gives me the ability to cinch up quick-n-tight for a stable shot from a field position ... It should go without saying, these Scout rifles are meant to be shot from common field-positions, not off the bench other than for establishing or vetting your zero. Initially I zero-ed the irons with IMI 7.62 150gn FMJ, and accuracy was good but not great. Switch over to PPU .308 168gn Match - and wow! - did the groups tighten up. Then mounted the Burris 2.75x and zero-ed it at 100yds with the same PPU Match ammo and was getting 1-to-1.5 MOA. I need to spend more time behind this little rifle and play with my handloads. |
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For a sling set-up, I attached a BFG A2 buttstock sling mount on the rear of the stock, and a Magpul RSA unit to that small piece of rail on the front-left side of the stock. That way I can run an MS1 sling (using paraclips on each end) for a 2-pt 'patrol-style' carry, while the slider on the sling gives me the ability to cinch up quick-n-tight for a stable shot from a field position ... It should go without saying, these Scout rifles are meant to be shot from common field-positions, not off the bench other than for establishing or vetting your zero. Initially I zero-ed the irons with IMI 7.62 150gn FMJ, and accuracy was good but not great. Switch over to PPU .308 168gn Match - and wow! - did the groups tighten up. Then mounted the Burris 2.75x and zero-ed it at 100yds with the same PPU Match ammo and was getting 1-to-1.5 MOA. I need to spend more time behind this little rifle and play with my handloads. View Quote ROCK6 |
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I have a synthetic GSR and love it, one of my favorite rifles to just shoot, the iron sights are great. Another rifle to check out would be the Howa scout, not a bad rifle and can be found cheap. Also look at some of the older rifles, I recently missed out on an older Ruger 77 with a 18 inch barrel with nice iron sights in .270, I would say how much it was but I'm afraid of many on here dog piling on me for not picking it up.
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