For people with families and little cash..

Whats the opinions of having a couple of 10rd nornico SKS for an emergency defense rifle? I can accersorize the entire family for $600. As oppsosed to $2000 for 3 lowest priced factory built AR rifles.

Do you think the 10rds is not enough?

I saw what happened in Katrina and dont want to be taken advantage of buy criminals if another bad sitaution arises.

If you have to, get lots of stripper clips and practice, practice, practice.... you can get really good loading the thing fast. Three people with SKSs that are good with the stripper clips and keep a constant rain on lead down range, I know I've gone through 1500 rnds in a single sitting with 2 other friend and stripper clips, only stopping the awesomness when the stripper clips were empty. By no means is it the best weapon choice but it rugged reliability cannot be challenged, plus in a true SHTF situation and one broke, you could almost make the replacement parts your self

The SKS is an excellent SHTF weapon. Its reliable, durable and accurate....not to mention extremely affordible. Brand new, unissued Yugo SKS's can be had for a song and this particular variant is one of the best availible. I don't consider the 10 round non-detachible magazine to be a limitation. Trying to correct this "problem" will make for much more trouble than just making do and adapting. Stripper clips were the standard for decades and provide a means to rapidly reload a weapon with a non-detachible magazine. With practice, an SKS can be fully charged extremely fast, or at least fast enough to remain effective/relevant. I personally would not want only 10 rounds, but with the SKS your options are limited. Using detachible SKS magazines is not a viable solution as they are unreliable. There is nothing for the extension on the front of the magazine to

lock onto and it just "sits" in the stock. Differences in tolerances, wear and the weapons action will all cause the front of the magazine to drop out of the stock while the rear lug remains locked in place. This causes FTF's and the magazine must be fixed and any soppages cleared. My first SKS with a detachible 30 round magazine would do this roughly every 5 rounds. Some people haveh had better luck, but all of my SKS's have performed poorly with detachible magazines. The best solution is 20 round non-detachible magazines. These are as reliable as the standard 10 round unit and double your capacity while maintaining the weapons lines/compactness. 30 round magazines are extremely bulky and get caught up, especially inside vehicles. I have a Chinese SKS with a 20 round non-detachible magazine with a cheap, but excellent/ 4x32 scope and quick detach mount. Granted, this can interfere with stripper clip reloading, but you can adapt. I can shoot around 3 MOA or so with this gun. I think of it as a communist M1D Garand. For a defensive rifle, it works extremely well. I personally think a budget minded SHTF-wacko would be better served buying a Yugo SKS and a Mossberg 500 persuader as opposed to a WASR or similar AK.
I would rather have the two guns than just the one, considering all guns break and fail. If you only have one gun, you are f***** when it breaks/fails. An SKS is an excellent SHTF defensive weapon in stock form. Certain modifications can really enhance the weapons capability making it the equal or better than alternatives.

It worked well for the VC.

You may wish to consider ammo availability as well.

7.62 X 39 mm surplus and Wolf have really shot up in price
and are not as available as they once were.

I never thought that I would ever go to 3 consecutive gunshows
and not see 7.62 x 39 mm crates anywhere.

It can still be found,but at nearly twice what it cost a year
ago.

You can get that ammo dirt cheap anywhere in the world ,except
here ,in the land of the free.

Now that's ironic.

SKSs are great guns.  And to boot they don't cost much.  Of course, the cost of ammo has "shot Up" in the last few months, but like everything else in life, there are going to be various cycles of ups & downs.  There will be more ammo in the future to feed the thousand of AKs and SKSs inside the USA.

I like the fix mag SKS because there not mags to loose, and is one less thing to carry.  Reloading from stripper clips is really fast with only a bit of practice.

Why don't you buy three Mossberg shotguns w/ shell extensions and a case of 00 Buck?

If you're on a budget, there's not a damn thing wrong with the SKS.
As been posted already, buy a bunch of stripper clips and practice.

A couple of years ago my nephews wanted to get into shooting and wanted a semi auto rifle. They didnt have much money so I helped them out and they both got a norinco sks. I got them a ton of stripper clips and ammo and it was off to the range. I showed them how to load the rifles with the stripper clips and how to keep up a continued rate of fire. They still have their rifles and every time we go camping or coyote hunting they still take their sks. They like the reliability and they are cheap to shoot.

It's better than nothing, and a good shooter with an intimate knowledge of his weapon can do some good work with an SKS. Make sure you practice a lot, especially reloads. Keep in mind that the most important part of the word "gunfight" is "fight." As Bigbore says, it's the singer not the song.

If you mean emergency defense "in the home", then neither, get a .38, or better yet, a 4.10 pump, with Feild shot. Rack the slide and watch em have a heart attack, if you have to fire, you won't kill your neighbor or the paperboy.

If you mean outside of the home, the SKS is reliable, acurate, and better yet... proven. 10 rounds will be ample in most situations.

SKS is perhaps the best deal out there for an effective combat rifle. It ain't the baddest or the fastest but it can easily hold it own with a competent rifleman on the trigger.
I would be very happy with a few SKS rifles to hand out when the zombies/liberals/towelheads attack.
Oh yeah, 10 rounds in the mag will work fine unless you are planning some CQB/MOUT operations.

You might also consider tossing an old mauser in the mix for some cheap long range firepower. SKS is fine out to a few hundred yards but a 8mm mauser will be deadly for 2-3 times the distance and will only add about $150 or so to your total cash layout.

Other inexpensive rifles to fill a long range niche would be an .303 Enfield or Mosin-Nagant types.

I have 4 of them, and 5K of Wolf, enough said.

My SKS is backup for my AR. I can charge up with stripper clips just about as fast as a mag change with the AR.

You could do alot worse than an SKS.  You may want to ask this in the Survival forum too.


-K

the SKS is the ideal SHTF rifle

function & reliability

effective

affordable

tough

Quoted: Why don't you buy three Mossberg shotguns w/ shell extensions and a case of 00 Buck?

Have to disagree with this,although any gun is better than no gun,IMHO a shotgun is limited.The sks will get the job done allmost as well as a shotty from 0 to 40 yrds,once you get past that the shotgun is very limited for defensive use.Also if you would have to shoot through cover,the sks will get the job done better than even slugs.
I think for the novice,the sks is the best choice.No mags to lose,has an open action to help with removing jams you might have,more than accurate enough for defensive use.IMHO the best deal for a centerfire rifle to be had right now.

Maybe a WASR-10 added to the mix?

Quoted: If you mean emergency defense "in the home", then neither, get a .38, or better yet, a 4.10 pump, with Feild shot. Rack the slide and watch em have a heart attack, if you have to fire, you won't kill your neighbor or the paperboy. If you mean outside of the home, the SKS is reliable, acurate, and better yet... proven. 10 rounds will be ample in most situations.

Ignore that advice.

Get SKS, stripper clips, and the chinese chest rigs.
Also pick up a front sight adjustment tool.
Leave them bone stock - don't make any mods.
They will serve you very well.

There's an old Japanese proverb that says one shouldn't overly covet a sword, because even a sword costing $10,000 (or whatever monetary unit they used) can be overcome by 100 spears costing $100.  Better to get 100 spears and arm 100 men.

In other words, you’re better off arming you whole family with SKS’ rather than arming one-two members with an AR15 and giving the rest sticks

nothing wrong w/ the SKS as a SHFT gun

just get lots of ammo

Quoted: There's an old Japanese proverb that says one shouldn't overly covet a sword, because even a sword costing $10,000 (or whatever monetary unit they used) can be overcome by 100 spears costing $100.  Better to get 100 spears and arm 100 men. In other words, you’re better off arming you whole family with SKS’ rather than arming one-two members with an AR15 and giving the rest sticks

Only if his family is full of fighters. If they can't shoot and wont fight, it is useless to arm them.

Not making a statement about anyones family, but the point stands. I would not arm my stepmother in a SHTF situation because she is not a shooter and not a fighter. She did complete most of nursing school, so she can hold the bandages and act as a medic.

But, if they can shoot and are fighters, more shooters can do a lot more damage. 2 armed men ar 4 times as effective as one. With a number of shooters, you can practice fire and maneuver tactics.

Great gun.  I have an AK and an SKS.

Neither jams, but at 100 yards, I don't know where the heck I am shooting with the AK. The SKS makes nice little groups.  200 yards, I'm still killing with the SKS,  I won't even try the AK.

I'm selling one.  Can you guess which one?

Quoted: Quoted: There's an old Japanese proverb that says one shouldn't overly covet a sword, because even a sword costing $10,000 (or whatever monetary unit they used) can be overcome by 100 spears costing $100.  Better to get 100 spears and arm 100 men. In other words, you’re better off arming you whole family with SKS’ rather than arming one-two members with an AR15 and giving the rest sticks Only if his family is full of fighters. If they can't shoot and wont fight, it is useless to arm them. Not making a statement about anyones family, but the point stands. I would not arm my stepmother in a SHTF situation because she is not a shooter and not a fighter. She did complete most of nursing school, so she can hold the bandages and act as a medic. But, if they can shoot and are fighters, more shooters can do a lot more damage. 2 armed men ar 4 times as effective as one. With a number of shooters, you can practice fire and maneuver tactics.

His question specified arming his entire family.

There are also the Saiga's the come in .308 which is a better round ni most respects to the 7.63x39 and will be easier to find in many respects also. I was watching a guy next to me shoot one at the range one day while I was shooting my M1A and it seemed like a good solid rifle. It is basically an AK converted to 7.62x51/.308 and should be very reliable. For what they go for it seems like a great rifle for the SHTF situations for a good price.

Saiga on gunbroker

Saiga

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: <snip> <snip> His question specified arming his entire family.

Correct, but I am speaking as to the merit of doing that.

Emergency defense rifle???

IT IS MY PRIMARY DEFENSE RIFLE!!!

I have done just what you are asking about.
I am a poor family man and found SKS's to be a hidden treasure of SHTF weaponry.
I have 4 Norinco SKS's and paid under $600.00 total.
One for each family member with a Chinese chest rig for each topped off.
Keeping them the same make (Norinco) also helps in the long run with parts if things start breaking on any of them.

7.62 X 39 is not a round to be messing with on the receiving end and I have no reason to engage anything past 300 yards!

Mount a red dot or scope on it and enjoy it as I have and do.

Anybody have a Norinco SKS for sale?
I could ALWAYS use another one...  
RW3

The SKS is a great value however the draw back in my mind (and remember I am far from an expert) is the low capacity in close quarters situations. While a group of people with SKS's would be highly effective if the enemy was 100 yards away, one person with one would be kind of screwed it the enemy was 3 yards away. I just don't like the idea of a gun that only holds ten rounds and is cumbersome to reload (yes I am sure someone will disagree) when one second could be the difference between life and death. Perhaps a good alternative would be several sks's and one wasr-10. This way you could share ammo, but at least one of you would have something more appropriot for a close in confrontation.

If you find yourself in a situation that one excellent condition SKS, a case of ammo and a competent shooter cannot get you out of, then chances are nothing else legally available would save you anyway.
I have heard of no stories during Katrina where anyone with a rifle was harmed by attackers.

If you have not done it in ten, you need to displace any way. Fire ten, reload , move.... Etc..
Ten is plenty for a high powered rifle.  Keep a hicap pistol on the hip, and you will have no worries.

Quoted: I like the fix mag SKS because there not mags to lose, and is one less thing to carry.  Reloading from stripper clips is really fast with only a bit of practice.

+1  Good point.

The SKS is a fine weapon, especially for the situation you describe.

M44 Moisin-Nagant, the predecessor to the SKS. 7.62x54R is dirt cheap and hits like a freight train.

Simon

Oh...it's a bolt gun.

Quoted: Why don't you buy three Mossberg shotguns w/ shell extensions and a case of 00 Buck?

Because a shotgun is not a rifle?

Quoted: The SKS is a great value however the draw back in my mind (and remember I am far from an expert) is the low capacity in close quarters situations. While a group of people with SKS's would be highly effective if the enemy was 100 yards away, one person with one would be kind of screwed it the enemy was 3 yards away. I just don't like the idea of a gun that only holds ten rounds and is cumbersome to reload (yes I am sure someone will disagree) when one second could be the difference between life and death. Perhaps a good alternative would be several sks's and one wasr-10. This way you could share ammo, but at least one of you would have something more appropriot for a close in confrontation.

Fix bayonets!  

Quoted: M44 Moisin-Nagant, the predecessor to the SKS. 7.62x54R is dirt cheap and hits like a freight train. Simon Oh...it's a bolt gun.

While I agree with you, the M-44 has a decent amount of recoil and an SKS, with substancially less recoil, would be better suited as a 'family' gun ie. anyone in the family can shoot it.  But you definitely can't beat the price of an M-44 + a 440 round can of ammo.  

While I can see the benefit in having multiples of  the same rifle system/same ammo i personally would prefer a hammer, screwdriver, wrench, pliers, etc in my families SHTF toolbox rather than 6 hammers. SKS is a great hammer though! SHTF also involves eating. Its hard to hit a bird in the air with an SKS, if you need to shoot a squirel for food a 22lr will leave more meat than a 7.62. If you need to make a trip into town under Martial Law you can't carry the SKS...a handgun can be concealed.

Also, since were talking about family/tribal type fighting, it may be better to assign main tasks to family members like reloading firearms or spotting vs everybody blasting away. That way your best shooters stay up and running all the time and its a more efficeint use of ammo. In this sense, a battery of weapons would be better. your long range shooters would always have a loaded rifle and you would have support family members watching thier backs with closer range weapons like a shotgun, carbine or sidearm.

I teach Filipino Martial Arts which is a tribal-based system. They used to fight with swords and knives putting there best fighters forward, women and children were behind them reloading knives for the fighters, throwing projectiles and in some cases finishing off the fallen enemy. Basically organized gang fighting.

Quoted: For people with families and little cash.. Whats the opinions of having a couple of 10rd nornico SKS for an emergency defense rifle? I can accersorize the entire family for $600. As oppsosed to $2000 for 3 lowest priced factory built AR rifles. Do you think the 10rds is not enough? I saw what happened in Katrina and dont want to be taken advantage of buy criminals if another bad sitaution arises.

In a Katrina type situation the SKS is an excellent choice.Reliable in nearly any environment,accurate to 300+ yards(more than enough) and the 10 rd mag is unlikely to be a problem.A low life criminal is unlikely to try and engage in a gun battle when he can go down the road for easier pickings.I think a 300 dollar AK is a slightly better choice but I would be perfectly content with an SKS.For the situation your envisioning a couple of SKS's and a case or 2 of ammo would be fine.Just don't neglect the less romantic preparations like food, water and medicine.Trying to sock alittle money away in case of a period of unemployment or just plain bad luck is far more helpful in most situations than having enough M4's to arm the neighborhood.

Quoted: Trying to sock alittle money away in case of a period of unemployment or just plain bad luck is far more helpful in most situations than having enough M4's to arm the neighborhood.

not trying to arm an entire neighborhood just my immediate family. No sense in arming neighbors they can arm themselves just liek I can.

I think it is best to be well rounded. Dabble a little bit here and there. I do have money set aside for emegencies in cases of unemployment.I can cash out cash out CD's. Worse case scaerario I could Cash out an annuties and retirment.

I do have water stocked not much maybe 15 gallons.Food enough for 3 people for 2 weeks 3 meals a day longer if we once a day. I hae flashlights, 32 gallons of fuel in my truck that can be driven or siphoned to another more conservative vehicle.

I think the SKS is a fine weapon.  If you consider your primary defensive situation to be from 20-100 meters I'd say go for it.  But under 20 meters I'd rather have a shotgun, and most legal defensive gun use happens under 20 meters.

If I didn't own any guns and was on a tight budget the first thing I would get would be a Mosberg 500, take the plug out put a butt cuff on and your golden.  WHY... While the argument can be made that a 30 round magazine short rifle is good for home defense (and I agree to a point) a ten round long rifle (although the SKS isn't really "long") isn't nearly as handy in a house.  Most likely you will never have to reload but if you do reloading a pump shotgun is easier to master.  00 buck has as much, if not more, close range stopping power than a rifle round, especially if said rifle round is an FMJ. Lastly if you have to use it you've just shot someone with the most commonly used home efense tool in the country...not a "Russian made assault rifle."

The second I would buy would be a low range 9mm/40cal pistol...Glock, XD or Ruger maybe.  WHY... much easier to use in the house and much easier to have on you in a post Katrina like SHTF.  You won't be clearing the brush in your yard carrying your rifle, but you can certainly could ware a holster.

Then I would start stocking up on battle rifles and the SKS is about as good a one as you can get for the price.  But if you imagine your most likely defensive firearm situation to be your entire family engaging multiple badguys outside of your residence at 20+ yards then by all means start here.

I do have money set aside for emegencies in cases of unemployment.I can cash out cash out CD's. Worse case scaerario I could Cash out an annuties and retirment.


I guess it depends on how bad SHTF. Think of a scenerio where access to funds in banks will NOT be possible due to computer failures, power outages, etc. Also, if your planning on "cashing out" before a disaster, you never know when a disaster situation is going to take place, if you do have forward warning, I'll bet a bunch of other people will be cashing out as well. Nothing wrong with stowing some cash that you have quick access too.

Quoted: If you mean emergency defense "in the home", then neither, get a .38, or better yet, a 4.10 pump, with Feild shot. Rack the slide and watch em have a heart attack, if you have to fire, you won't kill your neighbor or the paperboy. If you mean outside of the home, the SKS is reliable, acurate, and better yet... proven. 10 rounds will be ample in most situations.

The SKS is a fine weapon for the family but as head of the household you should arm yourself with an AK.
Just my $0.02

My Norinco SKS with my 303 Enfield keep my safe from falling over. My AK's and FAL get taken out and shot. Add a Kobra to your AK and you will see the difference on long range shooting.

Id get some $300 or under Romanian AKs.  My SAR 3 did 4 MOA all day long with Barnul and even Wolf.  The recoil of 5.45 is better suited to children and the rifle is very light.

Quoted: If you mean emergency defense "in the home", then neither, get a .38, or better yet, a 4.10 pump, with Feild shot. Rack the slide and watch em have a heart attack, if you have to fire, you won't kill your neighbor or the paperboy.

Yeah... I'm still chucklin over that... watch a lot a movies do ya..........

SKS is fine for your needs.... If I had to use one I would not feel undergunned and own anything within 300 meters.....

One more thought. Think of an AK as being the family squad auto. With a couple 75rd drums you can lay down some serious fire if the situation arises.

I recently bought a Yugo SKS from AIM surplus for a whopping $89.   It's got all milled parts and after some elbow grease cleaning up the rusty bore it's a reliable shooter.    I am suprised at the workmanship on such a cheap rifle.   I would think the SKS is a very good choice for a budget SHTF rifle.   I plan on buying at least 1 more myself.  

Quoted: Quoted: I like the fixed mag SKS because there are not mags to lose, and is one less thing to carry.  Reloading from stripper clips is really fast with only a bit of practice. +1  Good point. The SKS is a fine weapon, especially for the situation you describe.

Fixed a typeOs.

Yep, those steel AK mags do weight something, when you are carrying everything on your back, those ounces are going to add up real fast. Weight 10 steel 30rd AK mags, and I bet they will wiegh in at least 5-6 pounds, versus the SKS stripper clip which weighs only ounces.

I got rid of my Norinco SKS recently, with mixed feelings.  It served me fine for 4 years.  I made a tidy little profit off it too.  I had two 40rd magazines.  I didn't have any problem with them once I got used to how they sat in there.  It just took way too long to load and way to little time to fire.  I'd stay with either 10rd fixed or 20rd fixed for your situation.  Make sure they have bayonets or bayonet lugs on them.  Dad had one that had a modified minimag moutned to his.  That way, if you run out of ammo... it's still a spear.

Depending on how many people you want to arm and what your budget per person is.  Either AKs or SKSs are good choices.  I am really thinking after I build my AR15 to go back and pick up a cheap Yugo for 90$ or AK for 200-250 and play around with it.

Yes, the ammo has gone up drastically.  Supplies have gone down far too much.  I bought a crate of it back in the day for under a bill and only had 240rds left when I sold it.  

There are mixed feelings about the differnet scope mounts.  I bought a real cheap one that the scope rings weren't welded on straight so the scope was useless.  The iron sights were dead on accurate, though.

I threw away the reciever cover scope mount that was on my Norinco when I got it and bought a "normal" reciever cover off someone in the EE.  The iron sights work fine for me.  I agree with the utility of the 10 round fixed mag.  I wouldn't feel the need to put my SKS in the safe and buy an AK just so I could have the 30 rd detachable mags.  

WTSHTF, I would rather have my supressed M4, my Glock 21 a/insight M6, and my 870 w/surefire forend.

I've bought 870's at pawn-shops for $175, and put an ammo-tube on them and had one HECK of a defense arm. SKS are fine, but I would rather have a siaga for just a little more.

Just my $.02

everyone should own a SKS as a first and last rifle.

that being said I can't come up with a good excuse of why I don't have one at the moment.