Hello All AR15 Forum members!

I am new to this site and i am currently considering purchasing my first ar15 rifle..

Anyways I've only shot an ar15 once before in my life.. so i dont have very much experience with them, (or rifles in short)... So I'm looking for opinions here.. I am thinking i want the M4 model simply becuase i like that short front part (is it called the gas chamber? I dont know termonology yet) I'm not positive on anything yet, but i've been thinking i might go Bushmaster, simply becuase i can save around 200 to 250 bucks around here.. When i went into the store 8 months ago  the guy tried to talk me into a bushy, but I remember telling him it was 500 bucks more expensive then i had at the time (300), so i think they are 800 bucks up here in WA.. And i think the colt is 1000... Would this be a bad decision going with a bush master over a colt? I've read lots of stuff about people talking about the 1 and 7 twist of a colt.. i read on bushy's site that this one i am looking at has a 1 in 9.. I dont really know exactly which is better.. or worse.. I'm not rich so saving 200 bucks is definately a good point to me..

I'm not sure but it looks like the bush master doesnt have a removable handle ? tho i think there is some models that do? i think i might like to have that option even if i never do remove it.. also i hear people call the stock on a bushy FAKE? or something? what does this mean? Is the busy going to be any less accurate then the colt? will it jam more? is it less reliable? Is there some other brand i should take into consideration? I'm not sure what to expect or what differences there might be..

I've also considered The colt commando...
I really like its slightly more compact design, but not sure on its price or accuracy, if its going to be move expensive, then i'll have to pass on it. (I dont see one that is comparable, that is made by bush master)

http://www.colt.com/colt/html/a2f14_commando3.html

Any thoughts on this one?



Lastly.. What things would you recommend for me to check on any of these guns if i waltz into the gunstore anytime soon.. Things that i should check for on a that could be broke/wrong/bad/canted/ect...? Anything else i should know about? What prices should they go for? Is it cheaper to buy it on the net and have it shipped? My dealers charge 35 bucks to have a firearm transfered to them.. (sounds steep to me)...

Okay enough of my blabbering :) I hope to see some opinoins and feedback.. I'm not 100% sure i'm going to make the purchase yet.. i'm just kind of feeling things out and gathering information..

Thanks in advance!

Buy one of each, then trade the ones that don't tickle that special spot!

the bushmasters are good rifles. there are many manufacturers of good quality ar15s. you can buy just about any configuration(laws permitting) from any of the makers. i think the usual recommendation runs
Bushmaster
Armalite
Rock River
Olympic
etc.
add colt in wherever you like, opinions vary. some people think you pay extra for the brand name.

there are apparently some you want to avoid, supposedly hesse is not good quality, ive never seen one so cant comment further.

if youre mechanically inclined (do you work on your own car?) you might want to look into building your own, you can save a couple of hundred dollars.

Try the "official" AR15.COM LEGP rifle...

This years rifle consists of the following:
DPMS, 20" Stainless, 1|8" twist, NM Sights, A2 configuration

$739

This is a match grade, competition ready rifle!


Go here to check out the pix and specs, and/or order the rifle:
www.castle-arms.com/index-legp.htm

Go here to see what others are saying about it:
www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?id=60

bushy makes a fine rifle, as does armalite. Either one will outshoot the average shooter.

Bushmaster produces an exemplary product and I am more than happy with the 2 I own.

As far as the "fake" stock, folks are talking about the non-collapsable telestock on the postban M4.  As of 1994 and the Assault Weapons Ban (search on AWB for more information) post ban ARs cannot have a real collapsable stock.  The fake ones look the same as a completely extended collapsable, but are permanently fixed in that position.

As for a model recommendation, if you are going to just use it as a plinker (i.e. go to the range a shoot some targets, not enter any high power competition) then I would go with this one:

www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa3s16.asp

The A2 stock (full stock profile, does not look like the collapsable) is more comfortable and provides a better cheek weld.  This rifle has the removable handle so you can mount optics to the flattop receiver if you decide to buy a scope later.  Has a 16' barrel, no break (quieter) - gives the overall best balance/velocity/length in my opinion.

If you want to be able to shoot NRA/DCM high power competition, purchase the LEGP rifle for this year as mentioned by antiUSSA.

Ryan

Bushmaster makes a good AR.  I would be sure and get the flattop version on any AR that you buy.  The carry handle iron sights are ok, but when you want to try any scope/optic you will want the flattop model.  Watch-Six

Go with bushmaster, rock river arms, olympic arms, or armalite.
They are all basically the same (good quality) but w/ any of these your going to save yourself 200 bucks over then colt.  You can narrow down your decision w/ deciding what options you'd like(examl ..detatchable handle)  Make sure you get A2 sights rather than A1 - The A1 sights do not have windage and elevation adjust. . All of the mentioned company's parts are interchangable (colt's parts are not always)
And yes; most experts suggest a 1/9 twist barrel as the most suitable for an AR.
Make sure you get A2 sight rather than A1 - The A1 sights suck and do not have windage and elevation adjust.
I do like colt !  I own one.

If you want a carbine.  I would go with a Bushmaster Shorty A3.  I sent my Bushy into Wilson Combat and they put a break on it that looks just like the A2 Break on Prebans.

Shorty=$799       www.bushmaster.com
WC Break=$45      www.wilsoncombat.com

If you want a telestock, flash suppressor or other "Evil Features". PREBAN

www.gunsamerica.com
Or just check out the gun shows.  I made the mistake of not taking a deal I found.

Colt AR15 20" Preban (new)factory test fired only w/3 30rd mags, manual, and box. $2000    

I paid 700.00 for my bushmaster.
I see no advantage of having a COLT.

Try the "official" AR15.COM LEGP rifle...

This years rifle consists of the following:
DPMS, 20" Stainless, 1|8" twist, NM Sights, A2 configuration

$739  With the 35.00 FFL charge from your dealer You are still in a good way.


This is a match grade, competition ready rifle!


Go here to check out the pix and specs, and/or order the rifle:
https://www.castle-arms.com/index-legp.htm

Go here to see what others are saying about it:
www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?id=60

Lots of questions here are some ideas:

1) Bushmaster is an EXCELLENT brand.  The only brands that offer equivalent reliability would be Colt or Armalite.  BTW did you know since 1999 Bushmaster has been the largest producer of commercial AR15 style rifles.

2) Neither Colt nor Armalite offer as many variations as Bushmaster.  If you want a fixed (will that be A1 or A2 style?) or removable handle you can have either.  Your choice of barrel lengths from 11.5(+5.5" AK brake) to 24".  Most barrels are chrome lined - but they do offer a 24" Varmint and a 20" DCM Match barrel that is unlined for optimum accuracy.

Determine what you want to DO with the rifle - that will determine what configuration and options would be best for you.

Then visit us at www.md-ar15.com and read some of our articles for the person new to ARs (see the AR Articles section).

Good Luck!

E-view:

I completely second what Reidry and Aimless said.  The A2 stock and the shorty barrel (as shown above)in 1:9 twist would give you a user-friendly, handy, and versatile weapon capable of handling 55 and 62 grain bullets.  

BTW, you still have that Romanian SAR-1 that you refinished?

Noah

Noah - AHHH I just KNEW someone would recognize me, YEp i still have er! Way to much work on it to just sell it :) I didnt want to bring it up in this forum cuz I wasn't sure how I would be perceived :)

As for the AR15, I would be mostly plinking, I do not plan to enter any competitions or anything like that.. That shorty doest look bad, But i'm still kind of adjusting to that super long barrel that sticks out past the front site.. Maybe its not that long it just kinda looks it :) Thats why I asked about that colt commando.. I like the way the barrel on the end doesn't stick out so far past the front the sight..


Interesting point here.. Building my own? How would this work? Would i still have to pay the local ffl guy  to receive the parts if i buy them out of state? what if i buy them from seperate places I dont want to have to pay 35 bucks extra for each part gaaah!!
I like to think i'm mechanically inclined, i do not work on my own car tho, i have taken apart a few of my guns and re-assembled them.. I've done an SAR1 (ak47 clone) and my makarov was kind of tricky with that little tiny spring... IF i went the route of building my own, Would i really save even more? Does anyone have a guestimate as to what the grand total would be? I have some minor tools (screw drivers and ratchet set, drill) but i do not have any real power tools, would i have to cut or sand or dremel anything? How complex is assembling your own AR15 ? And would I buy brand name parts that are used in say a bushy or colt? I'm curious about this cuz it might be kind of fun, and if i can save even more money...But i wouldn't want to run into super frustrating things like one part doesnt fit with another unless i had to dremel half of it off or something..

Thank you ALL for your feedback so far, you've really got me thinking now..Anyways mostly range shooting at targets no competitions so i dont need super expensive. Also I think i do want the A2 sights that let me adjust windage ect.. Also if i did for some reason get the bushy that has the FAKE stock, can i replace that stock with a real telescoping one? I realize it might be illegal but is it possible? I'm not sure how i feel towards a solid stock (like on the shorty) or the fake/telescoping stock..

Thanks again! and i will keep checking up!

I am just going to say welcome to the site! Everyone else seems to have the advice covered

Hey man... I sent you some e-mail... welcome!

Check out the CAV-15, they go for $650 I think.
The guys there are great to work with.

www.cavalryarms.com/

If you want an M-4 get a Colt MT6400C.

Buy a factory built rifle if this is your first AR...

Go with a Bushmaster...
Best gun for the dollar...

Don't try building one 'till you know them inside and out...

They are very simple guns, but will drive you crazy if you don't know where to look for potential problems when building one...

Trust me, I know from first hand experience...

Best AR's I've ever owned were factory built Bushmasters...

I called one of the local shops here.. his prices quotes where pretty much what i expected..

he said 799 for a bushy ar15 M4 (not sure if that has removable handle or not)

but he did mention one gun i know nothing about, he said it was a : colt 15 match target 749 16 inch (used) heavy barrel.. he mentioned something about the lower being a3 or m3 or something i didnt catch it cuz he spouted it so fast.. but he said its a great price for a colt match target..I think he said it was in very good condition.. anyone have a link to which rifle this may be?

what are your thoughts?

Buy this one.

Quoted: Try the "official" AR15.COM LEGP rifle... This years rifle consists of the following: DPMS, 20" Stainless, 1|8" twist, NM Sights, A2 configuration $739 This is a match grade, competition ready rifle! Go here to check out the pix and specs, and/or order the rifle: www.castle-arms.com/index-legp.htm Go here to see what others are saying about it: www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?id=60

How does this guns quality compare to a bush master? and its 739, not including shipping (probably what 15 bucks? maybe 20?) then include ffl at 35 which brings it to about 790.. or 795 after all those unless there's something else i'm forgetting.. And i was kind of leaning towards the 16 inch carbine over the 20 inch..  I like the looks of the shorty , but i also like the flash hider on the m4...

Quoted: I am thinking i want the M4 model simply becuase i like that short front part (is it called the gas chamber? I dont know termonology yet)

Is this a joke?  This has to be a troll or a 12-year-old girl.

Quoted: Is this a joke?  This has to be a troll or a 12-year-old girl.

Nah, just sounds like a newbie who isn't afraid to just jump in and ask questions. And the questions don't really seem like troll type questions :)

Electricview, get what you want, but I will say this, your first AR-15 won't be your only AR-15, so you might want to get the LEGP while you still can. The 20" stainless barrel should provide great accuracy and a long life. The deal is almost over, so I would at least think about it before it's too late.

I too like carbines, but also want a good accurate 20" rifle. :)

Are you in the Seattle area? If so, there are some good shops around here. Oh, and you will get much good advice from some pretty knowledgeable people on this site. Welcome to the boards.

QCMGR:

I know Electricview from another board.  No troll.  Just a  newbie who is not afraid of asking some basic questions.  He is sincere about not knowing the terminology, and generally, answers will lead to more questions.

Noah

Fair enough, I guess it is like me asking the network administrator for a network thingie.
That said, the Colt MT6400C is a great rifle.  

My advice..buy now, buy often!  I got my first AR about 15 years ago and have been very happy with it.  BTW it is a colt carbine sporter.  Lots of fun.  Also, welcome aboard!!

Thanks guys, I am just trying to be honest, I dont know much about the AR15 that is why i'm asking many questions and getting the termonology down. I realize that is called the Handguard now.. I'm still a little hazy on the whole upper and lower thing.. but i think i get the gist of it.

I think the bushy here that is 799 doesnt have a removeable handle, which sucks cuz i think that means if they do have that model, it will probably be more like 899.... does anyone have a good online places that has great prices? I would like a colt but i think i might have to stick with a bushy... but if a bushy m4 a3 is gonna cost me 900 i cant see the point in not springing a few bucks more for the colt...

Is the Shorty anymore accurate then the M4 from bushy? I understand the shorty has a full 16 inch barrel, while the m4 has a 14.5 inch barrel with a 1.5 inch comp that doesnt add much to the accuracy.. or am I mistaken here? I think i've decided i would really like to stick with a carbine for my first ar-15 at least.. so that much i'm sure of..

its been suggested to maybe buy a rock river assmbled lower for around 150, then possibly find a bushy or rra complete upper for 300 ish on ebay, or a colt for 400... to me it seems like simple math, around 550.. are those all the parts i would need? How much assembling would be neccessary to put it all together? Is there alot of "tweaking" needed to get it just right?

I'm just trying to explore all the posibilities.. Thanks everyone!

Don't even consider buying a used upper on ebay, unless you know the person...

You will end up buying one with a shot out machinegun barrel...

I wouldn't recommend building an AR 'till you at least know the names of ALL the parts...

A factory built rifle is like buying a new car...
You can account for every mile put on it, and it has a warranty...

Buying used is like buying a rental car from an auction...
How many times was the engine run dry on oil ? How many times was it wrecked ??

Get my drift ???

YEa i think i agree....

I think i have decided to go with the bushmaster m4 a3 for 879.99 at my local store.. its already assembled. its a bushy, and it has a removable handle..

I think i have made a good choice..

Thanks everyone!

You won't be disappointed, guaranteed...

You said you weren't rich and I know where you're coming from. I'm starting a meager collection while keeping enough saved for tuition every semester. Just thought you might be interested:

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=4641395

with a transfer fee (mine in TX is $20, just look around) you'll pay <$830 total vs. around ~$930 (6% sales tax?)at your store. Not too big a deal and I don't know if they collect the tax on transfers in your state, but I always like to save $100. I just got a bushy 5 months ago and love it.

Quoted: Hello All AR15 Forum members! 1-I am thinking i want the M4 model simply becuase i like that short front part (is it called the gas chamber? 2-I've read lots of stuff about people talking about the 1 and 7 twist of a colt.. 3-I'm not sure but it looks like the bush master doesnt have a removable handle 4-also i hear people call the stock on a bushy FAKE? or something? what does this mean Thanks in advance!

I have the Bush 16" M4 model and love it but I've put a lot of money into it to accomplish all the various thing I want it to do. Answers to some of your questions as noted above:

1 - No... it's called a muzzle brake and it's there because the barrel is actually only 14.5" which isn't legal. It's purpose is to extend the barrel to a legal 16" and to soften recoil. It has an unintended side effect as well... it makes the gun one of the loudest things you will ever shoot in your life. Be sure to wear both plugs and earmuffs if you shoot this gun.

2 - The degree of twist determines the range of bullet weights you can fire accurately (or safely). The Bush 1:9 twist will shoot anything from 50 to 75gr bullets with no problem. If you really need to be shooting 80gr bullets for 600 yards competitions, consider something else, otherwise... this is a very versatile twist ratio.

3 - A1 & A2 models have permanantly attached handles, A3s have either no handle or an optional removable handle. A3s can be more versatile in mounting scopes and accessories but if you want to shoot DCM/CMP competition, they don't allow removeable handles. They also mandate 20" barrels...

4 - The telestock is fixed so that it isn't adjustable like the real M4 stock on pre-ban weapons. You get the look but not the function.

Since buying the 16" M4, I have also bought the national match 20" upper and replaced the sights on that with a hooded crosshair front post and 1/4 MOA rear sites... the standard was a 1 MOA adjustment. I use this upper for shooting NRA high power competition. I'll probably replace the M4 stock with a standard A2 stock as well... it's more comfortable to shoot and provides a better cheek weld as well as having a compartment to either store stuff or, in my case, add weight to help better balance the gun with the heavier 20" upper on it.

Once I'm done with that, all I need is a preban lower to build a whole second gun... with a REAL telescoping stock. Nice, short, defensive weapon.

Mstriton - I have considered that one ... are the flat tops the same price as the regular m4? or is that why this one is cheaper? My ffl's here charge about 35 dollars.. i dont know if they charge a tax for it? but they probably do, they try to eek every little thing they can out.. (they even charge me a credit card fee when i use it to pay, even tho I know most stores pay this themselves).. and shipping is 20 bucks, so yes its still cheaper then tax (its like 8.8 or 8.9 up here!! yikes!!)..I kind of prefer the m4 a little more over the flattop and the best price i've seen for an m4 with removable handle is 850... which isn't a huge deal less then 879....

I will check and see if they have the flat top there.. and make a last minute decision between the two.. they do have the m4 with non-removable handle for 799...

What do you guys think? besides the local raping by my states tax.. do you think its worth going through the whole ffl thing for 60 to 80 bucks?(I somewhat dont think it is, but then i again i can be impatient, so maybe others views might make me rationalize :) )

Midiman- I dont plan on entering any contests or anything like that.. i'm just a recreational target shooting man..i dont go to the range every week or anything like that..
the only other thing i might buy for the gun might be a scope and maybe a butt pad cushion thing-a-bob..(probably not tho)

I Plan to go down to the store tomorrow afternoon and take a looksie.. I'll check the forum before i go incase there's any last minute tips :)

M4 and 16 inch shorty style AR's are all the rage these days, probably owning more to their high profile in movies like Blackhawk Down and in the news coming out of Afghanistan etc. rather than actual performance.

Yes the short barreled jobs look really cool and hardcore military, but I am unconvinced about their performance, so I bought a 20 inch upper.

Performance issues:  
Velocity loss: The .223 and 5.56mm NATO rounds rely on velocty and fragmentation for damage potential.  The 16 inch barrel is giving up a small pile of velocity and the 14.5 inchers on the M4 clones give up even more.  Enough to cut the practical effective range of the firearm down substantially. Use of expanding ammunition such as ballistic tip and varmint type bullets limits this somewhat.

Accuracy Loss:  This is mainly an iron sights issue.  The shorter barreled carbines have a shorter sight radius (the distance between the rear sight element and the front sight element).  Shorter sight radii amplify sight alignment errors and decrease precision.

Now that doesn't mean that shorter barrels aren't accurate.  Barrel length in itself has little to do with accuracy, what it means is that the shooter must be more consistent to get the same accuracy out of a shorter barreled and shorter sight radiused rifle.  A scope all but eliminates this issue.

Muzzle break noise:  M4 post-ban barrels must have a muzzle break permanently attacked to bring total barrel length up to 16 inches, or you must register with the ATF as a short-barrel rifle. (lots of paperwork, oversight and B.S.)  Muzzle breaks function by directing a portion of the expanding gasses from the muzzle out to the sides and rear.  Muzzle breaks are generally unpopular with the shooters to the right and left of you and absolutely demand extra hearing protection.

Performance plusses:

Shorter barrels are more maneuverable in tight quarters.

M4 profile barrel is lighter than virtually all post-ban 20 and 16 inch barrels.

Carbines can be stored in much smaller spaces than 20 inch models.


General comments:

For just about any use other than competition, varmint hunting, and other precision shooting disciplines, a Chrome lined chamber and barrel is a better choice for AR's thanks to lower fouling and much better barrel life.  Bushmaster has the most chrome lined options. Armalite has some Rock River only offers chrome on their M4 and Faux M4 16 inch barrels.  I hope they will extend the option to other barrel configurations.

Good points.. The only reason i opt for the shorter/lighter barrel is i'm not a huge profile guy.. i'm short and dont have very long arms. I think the shorter rifle will suit me better.. and unless its really going to suffer in the accuracy department, i dont think its worth the 20 inch barrel..Like i said previous i am still torn between weather getting the Flat top or the M4, i'm leaning towards the m4 in a more positive way.. but i haven't completely ruled the flattop yet.. the flatop minus for me, is kinda dont like the stocks look..even tho it might feel better costmetically.. (i'll need to try hold both side by side)..  the thing i kinda dont like about the m4 is the way they do the barrel at the end (so you cfan mount grenade launchers on them) some people say it makes it look evil'er, but to me it just looks a little funky.. i prefer the straight metal look of the shorty.. it would be sweet if the shorter had that flash hider on it with m4's stock.. that would be great.. I do realize of course i can allways change the stock later.. but its 74 bucks for the full stock and 99 for the fake colapsable.. so its not something i'd wana do right away..

still deciding.....
But it looks like it will definately be of the bushmaster brand.

I don't see any point in getting a non-collapsing telescope stock, but if you like it and you've held that model, I guess you might as well. I got the A2 carry handle but kind of regret not getting the A3 flat top with handle (extra options available without any drawbacks) and agree with iceman about 20" barrel. 16"s are great too and plenty accurate so if you like the A2 handle, Joe Galibois has one on gunbroker for $699 and he is great to deal with (got my CZ75 from him). Pretty sure the last add I mentioned included the carry handle too. Anyway, sounds like you're pretty close now so have fun.

I swear i'm the unluckiest person alive.. I went down to the store, and they sold their last m4.. they had plent of the shorty's left.. they even had a used COLT that was exactly like the bushmaster shorty, goin for 749... But it was used.. looked to be in great condition! but i had no idea how many rounds was through it.. I was considering it.. but i almost was thinking for the few bucks more it might be worth it go to NEW bushy instead.. But now i have to find one.. Unless i decide to go with the shorty....

It sucks cuz i wanted to to hold the m4 and the shorty side by side and really get a feeling for the two, but since they only had 1... I didnt want to do that "Well i guess i'll buy this one since they dont have the other one" Type of thing, so I held off... worse, they have no idea when they'll get anymore in... talk about frustrating... I just called them 2 days ago and they "said" they had an M4 A3... (they had no regular M4's predoid A3 or A2)

thats my luck...


He also mentioned that the bradey bill comes up for renewl in 2004 or something, and he was almost recommending i go with the shorty so that if it(the bill) does get killed, it would be legal to get the barrel threaded and put whatever flash hider I want on there.. That was another little insentive.. but i'm still not positive....  I also didnt realize the hand guard where made out of plastic.. Maybe it was me but the hand guards on the colt seemed to fit on a little better.. the bushy's looked like 2 peices that didnt fit quite together perfectly.. maybe they aren't a perfect fit no matter what gun? They weren't loose or anything, its just where they horizontally fit together was a gap, the sides were not evenly touching.. Also he said the colt has 2 heat sheilds and the bushy only has 1, is this correct?

LOL Don't thread that barrel yet!  It will be a cold day in h...

Get a Bushmaster and buy the Upper and Lower Recievers seperatly. Very simple to build that way, plus you can say "It's a custom, I built it myself."

If you ever get interested in prebans...

(See sig. line)

Well i didnt want to have to build my first ar.. but apparently out of 10 gunshops i called no one has the m4.. and has no idea when they will either.. really freaky.. about 5 stores all had flat tops tho... And the local store changed their rules a bit... its 35 dollars for a ffl fee IF its a used gun, if its a new gun that they carry or normal carry in stock its 10% of the purchase price... man forget them.. I guess i'll just stick with my ak for a while..

I've got exactly what you're looking for, but unfortunately, it's a preban SGW (Olympic)...

16" M4 barrel(W/bayo lug & flashider), flat-top receiver, removable carry handle, telescopic stock, front side sling att...  

Probably WAY more than you want to spend though...($1450)



Keep shopping around, you'll find what you're looking for...

I've stumbled onto some geat deals on the equipment exchnge...

Yea I am looking to stay around the 800 or 900 level if possible.. I'll just have to wait, or maybe call some of the stores that are an hour or so drive away.. But i still have a feeling no one will have them.. which is really silly becuase i didnt realize such a popular wouldn't be carried buy most stores?? Ahh well I'll figured something out....

  If I were you I would buy a preban lower and wait until you had the money to get the upper receiver that you want. You can get a lower for 800-900. If you buy a complete lower and upper, its a matter of putting two pins in to put it together - very easy.
  The prebans prices are currently staying reasonable. Guess what - When the AWB sunsets and they pass a new bill which makes the AWB permanent, the preban prices are going to skyrocket. Get your prebans now, dont say I didnt warn you.

Well I got lucky!! I found a store that was just under an hour away and they DID have them in stock! cheaper then the places around here who didn't have em in stock too!! :)I went and picked it up!! I'm going to shoot it later on today for the first time! though I only got 100 rounds cuz they are pretty expensive (35 bucks for 100 rounds, I think I got taken but oh well I wanted to shoot it immediately :).. I'm sure there's better places on the net...

Here's a few small pictures.. though its not something you guys haven't seen 100 times before :) Thank you again for all your guys help and support!

Admire the M4 that it is!

http://home.attbi.com/~kkristek/P1002064.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~kkristek/P1002065.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~kkristek/P1002066.jpg

Be sure to clean it first & lube it up with CLP...

Every new one I've ever seen has been really grubby (by my standards) inside, and had thick slimey assembly grease in the bolt assy...

And yes, you did get ripped off on the ammo...

Try Eric at www.ammoman.com for ammo...This guy is "The best"