User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
FL, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2018 2:43:28 PM EDT
http://www.recoilweb.com/sionyx-night-vision-camera-at-outdoor-retailer-139870.html#ixzz5MCQW21iE
Has anybody checked these out? I've been waiting to see the digital color night vision in a form factor small enough to be head-mounted. Are we finally there? |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 2:10:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MainePure: Yeah I've tried all that, some settings are better than others but nothing eliminates it entirely. Very noticeable when scanning side by side w Gen 3 which has zero. I would guesstimate there is around 100ms of lag baked in the cake on these. |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 2:21:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By night9: Just throwing it out there that if you’re using one of these it’s very likely you’re using external IR illumination.. and any gen III+ device is going to see that like a beacon in the night come SHTF. |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 2:26:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gaspain:
Voluntary Survey: IM ME, do not reply in this thread. I am weary of the competition spying 
I'm working on the next version of the bridge mount. I have a CNC machine now!...which I am still learning to use. I won't say which model, but it can do 3 axis contouring at a fine resolution. 1-What material do you want to see in the next version? solid carbon fiber or 7075 aircraft aluminum or something else? *Carbon is much more painful to work with and costly. 7075 is very sturdy and is what most other bridges are made of. 2-other features? what's important to you? Also, I cannot infringe on any patent like the off shore guys do. So your wish may not come true as far as features. confirmed features: -easier pupillary adjustment -included dovetail Machined aluminum would probably be your best bang for the buck. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2020 4:54:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pheenixm]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: Aren't you the doctoral student of something or other? Mr. "You fundamentally don't understand" from the other thread? First of all, for the one millionth time - no Aurora user has ever said that given the exact same conditions, that it is always equal or better. It *can* be, but that depends on the scenario, which has already been discussed in the "Poor Man's" thread, go re-read it. ... And now Gen 2 will be here in May - we'll see how she does. Regardless, I don't think you can say that the Aurora is superior to I2 in any conditions, except in the way that in certain conditions, a horse is superior to a car. Nothing wrong with having a horse or enjoying riding a horse, but I wouldn't want to only have a horse. I have no personal experience with Aurora, only my knowledge of the way that the different systems work optically and electronically, which is what leads me to this conclusion. Won't even get into a discussion of the noise-floor issues, because quite frankly, it'd be mainly speculative.The overall point that I have been refuting is that thanks to their power-hungry nature, there is no way that you could ever reasonably rely on digital NV for a situation where you can't reliably recharge your batteries. Unless you've gone to the trouble of putting in PV cells, and at that point, your money would likely be better spent on I2. I wear my eye cups 
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2020 4:55:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#5]
NOT TECH
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Posted: 1/25/2020 5:27:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#6]
NOT TECH
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2020 5:30:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MainePure: Yeah I've tried all that, some settings are better than others but nothing eliminates it entirely. Very noticeable when scanning side by side w Gen 3 which has zero. I would guesstimate there is around 100ms of lag baked in the cake on these. *Now* - when panning side to side, or up and down, above a certain speed - there is "motion blur" due to the pixel refresh rate of the OLED LCD display. Per Sionyx, it is currently 16ms...and unfortunately for those for whom it bothers, it stays the same in the new Pro. Jumping from analog to digital and back - totally noticeable...using the Aurora for six hours straight on shoot/move courses - it becomes less noticeable to me. But yea, it's in the negative column compared to analog. |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 5:34:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#8]
NOT TECH
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2020 5:35:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dapzel:
Gen3 are awesome.
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2020 5:36:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gaspain:
on instagram they said its will be the same at 19ms
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Posted: 1/25/2020 5:36:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#11]
NOT TECH
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2020 5:40:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#12]
NOT TECH
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Posted: 1/25/2020 5:51:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#13]
NOT TECH
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2020 6:59:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#14]
NOT TECH
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Posted: 1/25/2020 7:06:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson:
In '86, PVS 5's were awesome. Then we got the 7 Bravos and *those* were awesome. Then we got the 14's in '98/'99 and THOSE were fricken awesome! Then I got out, hahahahaha! Now, not paying $8000 for Binos for what I need them for, is AWESOME! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson:
Originally Posted By Dapzel:
Gen3 are awesome. |
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Posted: 1/25/2020 7:24:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#16]
NOT TECH
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Posted: 1/25/2020 10:11:23 PM EDT
[#17]
ok first test 1050nm light going out to nat103 tomorrow. 5W 4 chip version LED at 1400mA.
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Posted: 1/25/2020 10:53:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#18]
NOT TECH
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2020 12:34:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#19]
NOT TECH
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2020 12:34:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#20]
NOT TECH
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Posted: 1/26/2020 2:13:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#21]
NOT TECH
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Posted: 1/26/2020 2:47:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#22]
NOT TECH
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ME, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2020 10:51:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: Do this: Put on the unit/s, go to a dark room (or at night) and hold your hand out in front of you, with the focus set for that distance. Now "pinch" your thumb and index finger together - slow, fast, doesn't matter. Do you feel them touch, before seeing them touch? I never have - mine have no lag. *Now* - when panning side to side, or up and down, above a certain speed - there is "motion blur" due to the pixel refresh rate of the OLED LCD display. Per Sionyx, it is currently 16ms...and unfortunately for those for whom it bothers, it stays the same in the new Pro. Jumping from analog to digital and back - totally noticeable...using the Aurora for six hours straight on shoot/move courses - it becomes less noticeable to me. But yea, it's in the negative column compared to analog. |
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Posted: 1/26/2020 11:31:11 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: **SNIP**- I managed to get through 58 Days of Ranger School patrols at night, with zero night vision at all. You kids these days are spoiled. Make sure you always wear your rubber eye-cups, don't want to be walking around like a Christmas Tree for any Auroras out there. And now Gen 2 will be here in May - we'll see how she does. I started off in the early 90s as a young Private. The only people that were authorized night vision were the squad leaders and above. I got comfortable in absolute dark using my other senses. Did it suck patrolling through the woods with no night vision? Yep sure did. Funny thing about your natural night vision. It is a lot better than people give it credit for. Most people just assume that they can walk straight into the night and operate effectively with night vision. You have to give your eyes time to adjust, at least 30 minutes to an hour. You do that and train at night with no night vision whatsoever, get good at it and get comfortable not being able to see shit, hone your other senses first and then darkness becomes your old friend, then night vision will be a force multiplier. First time I was give night given night vision, I was blown away. I still used my other senses in the dark, and it was truly a superpower. As with any new gear, training with it is paramount to success. When IR lasers hit the market, I was blown away again. I have a few great IR/vis/illuminator models for my rifles. When properly dialed in, it's like cheating. On every pre-deployment training I was forced to go through, I took time to dial in the PEQ-15 and is was like unlocking the cheat code for night qualification. Technology is always getting better, but you CANNOT rely on it. You have to still have a handle on old school skills. You still have to practice moving at night with no night vision. Keep good at that, and the rest is gravy. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2020 11:51:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: txdx]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maverick52:
Currently the Sionyx and other digital NV devices are doing just fine at replacing analog NV. It's already at or above gen 2 performance and the Aurora Pro is promising even better performance. If these become obsolete in the process, so be it. At one point gen 1 & 2 analog NV was state of the art and cost big money, now it doesn't. Analog NV will suffer from the same thing early generation digital NV will. The Sionyx is nowhere close to Gen 2 performance. Saying otherwise is either ignorance or dishonesty. Have no regrets buying my Aurora but I am very realistic about its obvious limitations. It's nifty, it's great in well lit suburban environments, it's great with an IR illuminator, it's utterly blind otherwise. It's alright if that's as far as your budget stretches but being patient and finding some real NV is a much better bang for the buck. A tired MX-9916 tube from the 80s blows it away in the dark. I tested 1064nm lasers and illuminators with a Sionyx back in 2018 and while it was interesting, I have no intention of relying on one for anything life critical, even with an OOB laser and illuminator. Have realistic expectations and be realistic with what you have. That PhD student is also not wrong. |
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ME, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2020 12:02:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By txdx: Sionyx and other digital NV is not replacing analog night vision for any use case that requires light amplification. For many hobbyists and hunters there's no downside to relying on a powerful IR illuminator. The Sionyx is wonderful in that situation. A similarly priced but less useful Gen 1 monocular would do the same job though. The Sionyx is nowhere close to Gen 2 performance. Saying otherwise is either ignorance or dishonesty. Have no regrets buying my Aurora but I am very realistic about its obvious limitations. It's nifty, it's great in well lit suburban environments, it's great with an IR illuminator, it's utterly blind otherwise. It's alright if that's as far as your budget stretches but being patient and finding some real NV is a much better bang for the buck. A tired MX-9916 tube from the 80s blows it away in the dark. I tested 1064nm lasers and illuminators with a Sionyx back in 2018 and while it was interesting, I have no intention of relying on one for anything life critical, even with an OOB laser and illuminator. Have realistic expectations and be realistic with what you have. That PhD student is also not wrong. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/26/2020 12:49:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MainePure: No matter what settings you use, if you look quickly from side to side, the effect is that the entire image is being dragged along, well behind your eyes. This is where I get my 100ms guesstimate. Looks like a motion processing issue and not a display response time issue to my eyes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MainePure: No matter what settings you use, if you look quickly from side to side, the effect is that the entire image is being dragged along, well behind your eyes. This is where I get my 100ms guesstimate. Looks like a motion processing issue and not a display response time issue to my eyes. TV Talk 1 That's what we are all seeing - you are 100% correct - it's there. Funny thing is, if read deep on the subject, each individual brain plays a large part in how bad it affects you: All LCD and current OLED models suffer from "motion blur." This is where anything in motion, either an object on screen or the entire image (like when the camera pans), blurs and looks softer than if it was stationary. Interestingly, this blur is largely created by your brain. Basically, your brain notices the motion, and makes assumptions as to where that object (or overall image) is going to be in the next fraction of a second. The problem with LCD and current OLED TVs is that they hold that image there for the full 60th of a second, so your brain actually smears the motion, thinking it should be moving, when in fact it's just a series of still images.
It's actually quite fascinating, but the details are beyond the scope of this article. I recommend checking out BlurBuster's great article for more info. The motion blur we're talking about here, despite coming from your brain, is caused by how the television works. This is separate from whatever blur the camera itself creates. Some people aren't bothered by motion blur. Some don't even notice it. Others, like me, do notice it and are bothered by it. Fortunately, it can be minimized. While there is a "lag" for the image to "clean up" when you stop panning, Lag in the digital display arena, technically refers to something already happening in real life, that you have yet to see on the display. A good example of this is a Webcam hooked up to a low powered "Netbook" - you raise your hands really quick in real life, but looking at the screen, they are still at your sides for a tenth of a second or so, *then* they move. We're all talking about the same thing, I just want the generic "Lag" terminology to be corrected - Lag *would* be bad - especially for shooting/hunting, luckily, as long is EIS is off, there is none with the Aurora. You guys with monoculars can test this another way too - get in an area where it's dark, but bright enough to see a buddy - have him move and watch him with both eyes - you'll notice if your Aurora eye image has more delay than your un-aided eye. |
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Posted: 1/26/2020 2:01:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By txdx: Sionyx and other digital NV is not replacing analog night vision for any use case that requires light amplification. For many hobbyists and hunters there's no downside to relying on a powerful IR illuminator. The Sionyx is wonderful in that situation. A similarly priced but less useful Gen 1 monocular would do the same job though. The Sionyx is nowhere close to Gen 2 performance. Saying otherwise is either ignorance or dishonesty. Have no regrets buying my Aurora but I am very realistic about its obvious limitations. It's nifty, it's great in well lit suburban environments, it's great with an IR illuminator, it's utterly blind otherwise. It's alright if that's as far as your budget stretches but being patient and finding some real NV is a much better bang for the buck. A tired MX-9916 tube from the 80s blows it away in the dark. I tested 1064nm lasers and illuminators with a Sionyx back in 2018 and while it was interesting, I have no intention of relying on one for anything life critical, even with an OOB laser and illuminator. Have realistic expectations and be realistic with what you have. That PhD student is also not wrong. Right now digital is replacing analog specifically in the hunting world. It's currently not at the level to replace analog for operating operationally, and nobody ever said it was. Replacement is replacement, and being able to create a fairly new product capable of competing with much more established products while being such a great value is a testament to the technology. The Aurora may struggle in conditions a gen 2+ device would be acceptable, but overall it compares well. Specifically what makes it comparable to gen 2 versus gen 1 is it's resolution, not necessarily it's light sensitivity. Several posters have already compared the Aurora favorably to gen 2 devices so this isn't only my opinion. As to intending to rely on one for life critical situations, who said that's what it's for? This is a continuation of a straw man argument. The only argument that has been made is that if you're pressed into a crazy situation that the Aurora could prove useful despite it's limitations. Especially if you're aware of them amd have prepared for having to use it in such a manner. This argument has only been made to counter the idea that an Aurora would "useless" in such a situation. The old scenario of bringing more firepower if you know your walking into a gun fight applies just the same to the Aurora & analog. Everybody here would pick analog if they knew they had to use it for SHTF. The thing is, we don't. What we use NV for on a frequent basis doesn't require that level of equipment and the investment that comes with it. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/26/2020 2:14:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By txdx: 1. Sionyx and other digital NV is not replacing analog night vision for any use case that requires light amplification... 2. ...relying on a powerful IR illuminator - the Sionyx is wonderful in that situation. 3. ...it's great in well lit suburban environments, it's great with an IR illuminator, it's utterly blind otherwise. 4. A tired MX-9916 tube from the 80s blows it away in the dark. 5. I have no intention of relying on one for anything life critical, even with an OOB laser and illuminator. 1. While there are outliers in any internet message board, 99.9% of us have never said, and don't believe that Digital/Sionyx can *replace* analog, or is as good in all scenarios. The very enthusiastic posters need some Xanax occasionally. 2. Agree, while there may be technical resolution differences - Under IR, my 52 year old eyes see a no sh*t high definition image. 3. I would add (for the current Gen, no idea about 'Pro' yet) Low Cloud Coverage 50% Moon or better where you can see the Moon. All bets are off if you have to walk into Triple Canopy, even under Full Moon and can't use IR - yup, useless - Been There, Done That. 4. I'm sure - any analog kills it if the situation is in that 1%-40 whatever % band where the Aurora sucks without help. 5. Since I am a Civilian, my odds of encountering any situation where flooding an area with IR will get me killed, are zero. I would/am totally relying on it...but it'll never happen - too many Walter Mitty, SHTF, Call of Duty peeps in this community. Like I posted before, I would have LOVED an Aurora in Iraq. As a PMC, we weren't going after Zarkawi, we were escorting DoD civilian EOD teams around the Triangle on the CEA (Captured Enemy Ammunition) Project - lots of ambient from headlights, never a cloud in the sky... or stopping the Baiji local jihadist's from sneaking into the ASPs and stealing artillery shells and mines for IEDs - they had no NODs. I also LOVED that crossgun put on that Ohio NVG shoot - doing that next to Gen3 let me see where the Aurora stands - perfect conditions, yes, but *everybody* had some difficulty doing certain things, even then. Here is another situation, that actually happened in real life, that I would be hard pressed to believe an Aurora wouldn't have worked just as well: Bill Blowers Attic Clear But Due Diligence will dictate the decision for purchase dollars - luckily this thread exists, so people can read everything posted, pro/con and criticism/attributes - and make a decision, so it's ALL good 
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Posted: 1/31/2020 1:28:50 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 1/31/2020 2:16:14 AM EDT
[#31]
In this video the Sionyx rep at the Shot Show booth answers/explains the lag issue pretty well IMO. At the 7:10 mark.
 Color Night Vision Under $1000!! - SiOnyx SHOT Show 2020 |
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USA
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Posted: 1/31/2020 4:37:59 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stre-tch:
Anyone preorder the Pro model? https://www.sionyx.com/get-to-know-the-aurora-pro/ |
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Posted: 1/31/2020 6:48:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Sionyx has a video comparing the Pro and classic on their fb page.
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Posted: 1/31/2020 6:57:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gr8Santini:
Sionyx has a video comparing the Pro and classic on their fb page. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/31/2020 7:01:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mickdonaldson]
[#35]
Pretty nice. Black truck in a parking lot - frame 1 the OG is bad, as they pan left they start picking up ambient and the OG gets better, but the Pro has it beat all the way. That's a good sign.
Video Edit: Just read a reply from Sionyx on the FB group, that the Pro image ^^^ had the settings zeroed as far as Gain, and that's why it's darker than the OG image. |
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Posted: 1/31/2020 9:48:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson:
Pretty nice. Black truck in a parking lot - frame 1 the OG is bad, as they pan left they start picking up ambient and the OG gets better, but the Pro has it beat all the way. That's a good sign. https://i.imgur.com/YCd0o4D.jpg Video |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 12:46:36 AM EDT
[#37]
Hooked on Sionyx
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2020 4:22:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#38]
NOT TECH
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Posted: 2/1/2020 4:38:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#39]
NOT TECH
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2020 6:50:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#40]
NOT TECH
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Posted: 2/1/2020 9:34:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Anyone know how reliable Sionyx has been with prior release dates?
I’d pull the trigger on the Pro pre-order if I knew this wasn’t going to be a “Masada”. |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 9:49:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#42]
NOT TECH
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2020 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PFran42:
Anyone know how reliable Sionyx has been with prior release dates? I’d pull the trigger on the Pro pre-order if I knew this wasn’t going to be a “Masada”. As soon as I get my Pro's, I'm putting my whole current Bino set-up on the EE, OG, Sport, and MACHOS w/PVS-18 Shoe...just add helmet and RHINO II. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2020 9:56:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#44]
NOT TECH
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Posted: 2/1/2020 11:15:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PFran42:
Anyone know how reliable Sionyx has been with prior release dates? I'd pull the trigger on the Pro pre-order if I knew this wasn't going to be a "Masada". i wanted to pre order one of these to try out but the carson pathfinder is really getting my attention |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2020 11:32:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wombat:
The gain is still not up to the analog tubes but what you're not saying about the ability of gain on light over 1000nm is going to be then big thing. If people using these CCDs can see light over 1000nm and the normal tubes can not then that is a big game changer. If people with these with active lights <1100nm can not be seen by people with a pvs14 then that is a game changer. And even more than that these are not ITAR! I mean literally dozens of advantages. Thinking analog is going to stay king of the hill is ignoring reality. It just is. Look at every other technology. Shit, if you took a phone from today and went back in time just 30 years ago and showed people they’d think you were an alien. For real. |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 12:36:12 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: I've had my OG about a year (April or so), added the Sport around July. Both have been fine operation wise. Only one time, when I was at an NVG shoot, did I manage to "Lock it up". It was the OG, and I was seriously mashing buttons on the D-Pad - Zooming, Gain, Settings, etc.. It froze. Turning it Off did nothing - stayed in operation. To remedy, I just Popped off the EVF, removed the battery (which killed all power, so it went dark), re-inserted it, and turned it back on - perfect. That's probably how to "reboot" it. As soon as I get my Pro's, I'm putting my whole current Bino set-up on the EE, OG, Sport, and MACHOS w/PVS-18 Shoe...just add helmet and RHINO II. |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 12:37:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1iviper:
i believe they've been pretty good about releasing products when they say they'll be available i wanted to pre order one of these to try out but the carson pathfinder is really getting my attention |
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USA
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Posted: 2/1/2020 12:48:56 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PFran42: You didn't read my post, did you? |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 4:14:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: K1rodeoboater]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson:
Pretty nice. Black truck in a parking lot - frame 1 the OG is bad, as they pan left they start picking up ambient and the OG gets better, but the Pro has it beat all the way. That's a good sign. https://i.imgur.com/YCd0o4D.jpg Video Edit: Just read a reply from Sionyx on the FB group, that the Pro image ^^^ had the settings zeroed as far as Gain, and that's why it's darker than the OG image. |
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