What's better: Thermal scope with NV handheld monocular or NV scope with Thermal handheld monocular?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What's better: Thermal scope with NV handheld monocular or NV scope with Thermal handheld monocular?

Posted: 12/19/2017 3:01:50 PM EDT

If you're hunting many folks say that it's best to have a scope, whether thermal or NV combined with a handheld monocular of the opposite. You could use goggles and helmet also, but I wouldn't want to do that. A lot of folks on here say that you should have good NV to identify the game your shooting, but I don't know if that should be your scope or your handheld. I can see why you want a handheld to scan the area and locate your target because by using your rifle scope you're sweeping things you may not want to shoot, making a lot of movement, tiring yourself out, and making it harder to easily search.

I'd think that you'd want a handheld thermal to scan the area and then when you find the target animal, ID it with the scope and shoot. Maybe I'm wrong. I can see how with a thermal scope you can ID hogs and cattle and people fairly easily, but I can see how you could mistake a dog for a coyote or wolf and you wouldn't want to shoot the neighbors pet when predator hunting.

So, what's better, thermal scope with NV handheld or NV scope with thermal handheld for hunting?

Posted: 12/19/2017 3:24:18 PM EDT

[#1]

Oh boy.....

Posted: 12/19/2017 4:00:03 PM EDT

[#2]

Thermal mono. NV Scope. You will most likely need better magnification with NV to properly ID said target.

Posted: 12/20/2017 12:34:47 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
If you're hunting many folks say that it's best to have a scope, whether thermal or NV combined with a handheld monocular of the opposite. You could use goggles and helmet also, but I wouldn't want to do that. A lot of folks on here say that you should have good NV to identify the game your shooting, but I don't know if that should be your scope or your handheld. I can see why you want a handheld to scan the area and locate your target because by using your rifle scope you're sweeping things you may not want to shoot, making a lot of movement, tiring yourself out, and making it harder to easily search.

I'd think that you'd want a handheld thermal to scan the area and then when you find the target animal, ID it with the scope and shoot. Maybe I'm wrong. I can see how with a thermal scope you can ID hogs and cattle and people fairly easily, but I can see how you could mistake a dog for a coyote or wolf and you wouldn't want to shoot the neighbors pet when predator hunting.

So, what's better, thermal scope with NV handheld or NV scope with thermal handheld for hunting?

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The answer is that it depends.

If you said that you could navigate your AO in the dark without NV and without white light, then of the two choices you listed, I would pick thermal monoc and NV scope.

If you said you need light in order to navigate where you are, of your choices I would pick an NV monoc and a thermal scope.

Posted: 12/20/2017 2:08:52 PM EDT

[#4]

one of everything

Posted: 12/20/2017 10:31:12 PM EDT

[#5]

Thermal Weapon Sight helmet mounted NV

Posted: 12/22/2017 8:20:44 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
Thermal Weapon Sight helmet mounted NV

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Just not that. lol

Posted: 12/22/2017 8:26:04 PM EDT

[#7]

I've gone with a night vision monocular helmet mounted and a thermal scope.

My thought is that walking around trying to keep quiet the night vision is a better tool. When shooting something it's easier to find something alive from their heat signature.

Posted: 12/22/2017 9:27:04 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
Just not that. lol

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Thermal Weapon Sight helmet mounted NV

Just not that. lol

Take it from someone that actually hunts.

Thermal weapon sight is king.

If you want to be ninja, nv.

Posted: 12/23/2017 12:11:03 AM EDT

[#9]

Helmet mounted NV with IR laser. Handheld thermal

Posted: 12/23/2017 1:55:28 AM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:
Helmet mounted NV with IR laser. Handheld thermal

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This is the route I am heading. After my helmet is all put together I will find a nice IR laser and probably go with flir 640
scout

Posted: 12/23/2017 8:50:38 AM EDT

[#11]

I go out 3-4 night a week. For a long time, only had a scope . Would use it to scan, and shoot. Was t ideal, but worked . Then I got a monocular, and I wondered how I ever did without it . Then finally got helmet /pvs14. Was very helpful when driving , and walking when extremely dark . That’s best combo . But I could live without it. I personally have no use for a nv scope . Was told long ago I needed one for id, that’s never been the case . But I use ird/trijicon, not a low end unit. Pretty easy to clearly I’d pigs and coyotes way further away than I ever shoot. Honestly, I can id sooner with either one any of my thermals, while the pigs are still just a faint blob with pvs14 . Hope this helps

Posted: 12/23/2017 8:57:42 AM EDT

[#12]

Night vision with ir laser and handheld thermal for scanning works if hunting open fields. Get into the woods and it is a different story. Really sucks when you pick up things with thermal and cannot see it to shoot with night vision.

Posted: 12/23/2017 2:26:35 PM EDT

[#13]

what are you going to be hunting, and will you have to walk on nice trails or hike thru more challenging terrain? or are you just going to drive somewhere and set up a tripod and shoot from that?

Posted: 12/23/2017 4:03:57 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
Night vision with ir laser and handheld thermal for scanning works if hunting open fields. Get into the woods and it is a different story. Really sucks when you pick up things with thermal and cannot see it to shoot with night vision.

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Wouldn't an IR light help with the darkness in the woods?

Posted: 12/23/2017 6:04:06 PM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:
Wouldn't an IR light help with the darkness in the woods?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Night vision with ir laser and handheld thermal for scanning works if hunting open fields. Get into the woods and it is a different story. Really sucks when you pick up things with thermal and cannot see it to shoot with night vision.

Wouldn't an IR light help with the darkness in the woods?

It can help but the ir light can/will reflect off of foliage making things worse instead of better at times.

Posted: 12/24/2017 5:19:13 PM EDT

[#16]

Depends on your state. Mine won't let you use NV for hunting bit thermal is ok.

Although a NV monocular with no laser and a thermal sight might be ok

Posted: 12/25/2017 12:07:16 PM EDT

[#17]

I'm slowly finding that I use my nv less and less since getting the REAP-IR, navigation and a backup shooting method in case the thermal dies seem to be the only roles the nv is filling at the moment.

Posted: 12/26/2017 2:29:11 AM EDT

[#18]

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Quoted:
what are you going to be hunting, and will you have to walk on nice trails or hike thru more challenging terrain? or are you just going to drive somewhere and set up a tripod and shoot from that?

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Just walk and set up. Less than 100 yards for sure. Coyotes.

Posted: 12/27/2017 1:50:58 AM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:

Take it from someone that actually hunts.

Thermal weapon sight is king.

If you want to be ninja, nv.

View Quote

Fact. If you are actually hunting, NV is almost worthless. I usually walk around without white light or NV in the dead of the night no problem. I have a helmet mounted L3 Gen3 white phosphorus PVS14 and I never use it. Also, a weapon mounted IR laser is a pretty crappy solution compared to a thermal scope.

As for people saying that you can identify easier with NV than thermal... i strongly disagree. A quality thermal scope like a reap-ir is significantly better for identification than current gen NV.

Posted: 12/27/2017 9:05:21 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

Fact. If you are actually hunting, NV is almost worthless. I usually walk around without white light or NV in the dead of the night no problem. I have a helmet mounted L3 Gen3 white phosphorus PVS14 and I never use it. Also, a weapon mounted IR laser is a pretty crappy solution compared to a thermal scope.

As for people saying that you can identify easier with NV than thermal... i strongly disagree. A quality thermal scope like a reap-ir is significantly better for identification than current gen NV.

View Quote

Cool. Good to know.

Posted: 12/28/2017 1:53:34 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Fact. If you are actually hunting, NV is almost worthless . I usually walk around without white light or NV in the dead of the night no problem. I have a helmet mounted L3 Gen3 white phosphorus PVS14 and I never use it. Also, a weapon mounted IR laser is a pretty crappy solution compared to a thermal scope.

As for people saying that you can identify easier with NV than thermal... i strongly disagree. A quality thermal scope like a reap-ir is significantly better for identification than current gen NV.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Take it from someone that actually hunts.

Thermal weapon sight is king.

If you want to be ninja, nv.

Fact. If you are actually hunting, NV is almost worthless . I usually walk around without white light or NV in the dead of the night no problem. I have a helmet mounted L3 Gen3 white phosphorus PVS14 and I never use it. Also, a weapon mounted IR laser is a pretty crappy solution compared to a thermal scope.

As for people saying that you can identify easier with NV than thermal... i strongly disagree. A quality thermal scope like a reap-ir is significantly better for identification than current gen NV.

If hogs are your target, you're very incorrect

Posted: 12/28/2017 2:05:21 AM EDT

[#22]

The ir seems to be getting good enough that you can take your pick.

Posted: 12/28/2017 3:27:29 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
If hogs are your target, you're very incorrect

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Take it from someone that actually hunts.

Thermal weapon sight is king.

If you want to be ninja, nv.

Fact. If you are actually hunting, NV is almost worthless . I usually walk around without white light or NV in the dead of the night no problem. I have a helmet mounted L3 Gen3 white phosphorus PVS14 and I never use it. Also, a weapon mounted IR laser is a pretty crappy solution compared to a thermal scope.

As for people saying that you can identify easier with NV than thermal... i strongly disagree. A quality thermal scope like a reap-ir is significantly better for identification than current gen NV.

If hogs are your target, you're very incorrect

Hog and coyote is almost all I do. Also, I believe it goes without saying that my comment was in the context of NV is worthless when you have the option of a high quality thermal. Please explain if you have a differing opinion.

Posted: 12/28/2017 2:28:27 PM EDT

[#24]

I’d like to hear this explanation as well.

Posted: 12/28/2017 2:42:16 PM EDT

[#25]

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Quoted:
I’d like to hear this explanation as well.

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Count me in
Would like to hear the explanation.

Posted: 12/28/2017 4:06:08 PM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:
I’d like to hear this explanation as well.

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Let me explain a little more why I no longer use my night vision ( which is an excellent tube). These are just my thoughts that I am just now pulling together and typing out on my phone (and then edited from my laptop of course). They are not planned out, just the observations I have made through use. Please forgive me if this is disjointed/redundant/already widespread info/doesn't flow together.

In no specific order:

There are many times where I can look out into a field and not see anything with the night vision. Then I pull up my thermal scope and I can see a mouse from 50 yards, or a couple of doe that has bed down, then an armadillo 100 yards away. I would have never seen those with the NV. It's amazing that I didn't realize how much movement goes on at night until I started using thermal.

I don't care what people say, with a good quality scope like a trijicon, identification is 100% easier with thermal. And again, if we're talking about hunting here, you do not need to be able to see through windows or identify faces. For example, when I do see something with my NV that is far away, I usually can't make out exactly what it is. I can then pull my thermal up and see that not only is it a buck, but I can even make out his antlers. The picture below is from my Reap-IR and I believe this is 4x zoom. With the native 2.5x optical zoom, that comes out to 9x zoom. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Attached File

Unless you are using a night vision scope or PVS14 clip on, you are going to have to use an IR laser. This is essentially firing without magnification and fwithout looking down the sights. It is definitely not the best solution. Let's say you are calling in a coyote. Do you want to wait until you call that coyote in so enough that you feel comfortable taking a shot with a weapon mounted laser, or do you want to be able to take a much longer shot with a scope and worry less about him discovering you? Do you want to stalk up to 25-50 yards on on a boar in the middle of the night, or take a very comfortable shot at 75+ yards? Yes, you can get a 3x lens adapter for your PVS14, but that's added money, weight, and further issues that will just take us even deeper into the weeds

Weapon mounting a PVS14 is generally a bad idea. I tried it one night and did not like it, so I ditched the idea. Some people might have better experiences. Also, the manufacturer I bought my PVS14 from (TNVC) advised against weapon mounting the unit because it can slowly tear the PVS14 apart.

Let's say you are running a helmet mounted PVS14 and a thermal scope. Badass right? Best of both worlds? Well, it's not that amazing. The thing is that you can counterweight the PVS14 so it doesn't wear out the muscles in the front and back of your neck, but what about the muscles on the side? When you flip your PVS14 up to look through your thermal all the weight of the helmet and NV unit are pulling on the muscles on the side of your neck. After looking through the scope for a very moderate amount of time it starts to hurt. I know some will say hit the weight room, but I'm in pretty damn good shape and it still annoys me. How many of us are even in moderate shape? Oh, and for people who's arms get tired holding up their rifle... try a primos trigger stick. I use just the basic tall monopod.

The notion that you can run a PVS14 on your left and keep your right eye clear to use your thermal doesn't really work well. Thermal scopes are essentially a TV inside your scope and not as forgiving as an aimpoint. To look through my thermal while my PVS14 is flipped down, I have to put the butt-stock on top of my shoulder and turn the rifle at a weird angle.

For my rifle setup, I found that the best NV mount for being able to flip up and then look through the scope was the Norotos INVG mount because you can flip it up, and then to the side. The others that just flipped up would get in the way and not allow me to fully get behind the scope. I believe Wilcox has a mount that might allow for something similar, but the point is that you're going to be spending like $500 just for a mount that will work best for a specific need. Also keep in mind that with NV flipped straight up, it makes it difficult to get in and out of cars. The INVG helped with this, but still annoying.

If you are using night vision, you again are going to have to use an IR laser and more than likely an IR illuminator. Depending on the wavelength, these both can give of a red hue and there is debate on whether or not animals can see this. Also, if you use an IR illuminator in the woods or to look at it your feet, it kind of sucks. It's just like white light to NV and will be overly bright. I would only use it in open fields.

Using a PVS14 helmet mounted to hunt really adds up... think about this. You have to buy the PVS14, the helmet, the counter weight (you'll want this if you're doing an all night long hunt), the arm (definitely get something better than the plastic j-arm), the mount (USGI rhino mount sucks), the IR illuminator (the only laser combo with a decent illuminator is the MAWL), the laser, and then any random accessories you might need (tape switch, PVS14 leash etc). Add all of this up and how far from a pretty damn nice thermal scope are you?

When you want to get a laser, you don't have to get a nice laser, but it really helps. For instance, it seriously helps to have the visible laser and the IR laser mated. If not, you will have to zero the laser at night and it's sort of annoying when you have to wait until night time to confirm your zero the night of a hunt. It's a great way to possibly scare the animal you're hunting. Also, don't think anyone will really be satisfied with a dbal I2. The DBAL zero procedure SUCKS because it requires positive pressure. Essentially, to move the windage one click CW, you spin the knob 8 clicks CW and then back 7 CCW.

People say that you want a NV unit for navigation and being able to see shadows and what not. For me, I just walk around in the pitch black and let my natural night vision adjust. If I get real lost and need to see, I just pull my rifle up and take a look. Really simple. New thermals can see down to individual blades of grass, so I think you'll be able to see just fine. Also, what better way to see if you're really concealed in the shadows than by actually looking into the darkness? (not actually something that is that important. You're hunting an animal, not Jason Bourne)

Lastly, when you add a NV unit and all the extra crap like laser and IR illuminator, you are integrating several different tools and adding extra weight to tour rifle/person. I personally just like to keep it simple and streamlined with the thermal. I'm also kinda from the school of thought that for every device you add that requires a battery you complicate your night a little more.

Of course, YMMV on ALL of this and this info will not will not pertain to everyone. This may all seem pessimistic about NV, but it is in relation to thermal. Why do I still keep my NV? Well, it's better than having nothing, it's cool to see the stars, and I'm just a gear whore. Plus lasers are pretty neat-o.

Oh, and an ideal setup would be thermal rifle scope and thermal handheld monocle kept on a lanyard, or a pouch. Preferably on 6.8spc or 308 for hog, but that's another topic.

Posted: 12/28/2017 6:01:57 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

Let me explain a little more why I no longer use my night vision ( which is an excellent tube). These are just my thoughts that I am just now pulling together and typing out on my phone (and then edited laptop of course). They are not planned out, just the observations I have made through use. Please forgive me if this is disjointed/redundant/already widespread info/doesn't flow together.

In no specific order:

There are many times where I can look out into a field and not see anything with the night vision. Then I pull up my thermal scope and I can see a mouse from 50 yards, or a couple of doe that has bed down, then an armadillo 100 yards away. I would have never seen those with the NV. It's amazing that I didn't realize how much movement goes on at night until I started using thermal.

I don't care what people say, with a good quality scope like a trijicon, identification is 100% easier with thermal. And again, if we're talking about hunting here, you do not need to be able to see through windows or identify faces. For example, when I do see something with my NV that is far away, I usually can't make out exactly what it is. I can then pull my thermal up and see that not only is it a buck, but I can even make out his antlers. Picture is from a Reap-IR and I believe this is 4x zoom. With the native 2.5x optical zoom, that comes out to 9x zoom. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171044/IMG_7355-404103.JPG

Unless you are using a night vision scope or PVS14 clip on, you are going to have to use an IR laser. This is essentially firing without no magnification and firing without looking down the sights. It is definitely not the best solution. Let's say you are calling in a coyote. Do you want to wait until you call that coyote in so close you feel comfortable taking a shot with a weapon mounted laser, or do you want to be able to take a much longer shot with a scope and worry less about him discovering you? Do you want to stalk up to 25-50 yards on on a boar in the middle of the night, or take a very comfortable shot at 75+ yards?Yes, you can get a 3x lens adapter for your PVS14, but that's added money, weight, and further issues that will just take us even deeper into the weeds

Weapon mounting a PVS14 is generally a bad idea. I tried it one night and did not like it, so I ditched the idea. Some people might have better experiences. Also, the manufacturer I bought my PVS14 from (TNVC) advised against weapon mounting the unit because it can slowly tear the PVS14 apart.

Let's say you are running a helmet mounted PVS14 and a thermal scope. Badass right? Best of both worlds? Well, it's not that amazing. The thing is that you can counterweight the PVS14 so it doesn't wear out the muscles in the front and back of your neck, but what about the muscles on the side? When you flip your PVS14 up to look through your thermal all the weight of the helmet and NV unit are pulling on the muscles on the side of your neck. After looking through the scope for a medium period of time it starts to go hurt. I know some will say hit the weight room, but I'm in pretty damn good shape and it annoys me. How many of us are even in moderate shape?

The notion that you can run a PVS14 on your left and keep your right eye clear to use your Herman doesn't really work well. Thermal scopes are essentially a TV inside your scope and not as forgiving as an aimpoint. To look through my thermal while my PVS14 is flipped down, I have to put the butt-stock on top of my shoulder and turn the rifle at a weird angle.

For my rifle setup, I found that the best NV mount for being able to flip up and then look through the scope was the Norotos INVG mount because you can flip it up, and then to the side. The others that just flipped up would get in the way. I believe Wilcox has a mount that might allow for something similar, but the point is that you're going to be spending like $500 just for a mount that will work best for a need. Also keep in mind that with NV flipped straight up, it makes it difficult to get in and out of cars. The INVG helped with this, but still annoying.

if you are using night vision, you again are going to have to use an IR laser and more than likely an IR illuminator. Depending on the wavelength, these both can give of an red hue that there is debate on whether or not animals can see. Also, of you use an IR illuminator in the woods or to look at it your feet, it kind of sucks. It's just like white light to NV and will be overly bright. I would only use it in open fields.

Using a PVS14 head mounted to hunt really adds up... think about this. You have to buy the PVS14, the helmet, the counter weight (you'll want this if you're doing an all night long hunt), the arm (get something better than the plastic j-arm), the mount (USGI rhino punt sucks), the IR illuminator (the only laser combo with a decent illuminator is the MAWL), the laser, and then any random accessories you might need (tape switch, PVS14 leash etc). Add all of this up and how far from a pretty damn nice thermal scope are you?

When you want to get a laser, you don't have to get a nice laser, but it really helps. For instance, it seriously helps to have the visible laser and the IR laser mated. If not, you will have to zero the laser at night and it's sort of annoying when you have to wait until night time to confirm you zero the night of a hunt. Also, don't think you will be satisfied with a dbal I2. The DBAL zero procedure SUCKS because you have to use positive pressure. Essentially, to move the windage one click CW, you spin the knob 8 clicks and then back 7.

People say that you want a NV unit for navigation and being able to see shadows and what not. For me, I just walk around in the pitch black and let my natural night vision adjust. If I get real lost and need to see, I just pull my rifle up and take a look. Really simple. New thermals can see down to individual blades of grass, so I think you'll be able to see just fine. Also, what better way to see if you're really concealed in the shadows than by actually looking into the darkness?

Lastly, when you add a NV unit and all the extra crap like laser and IR illuminator, you are in integrating several different tools and adding extra weight to tour rifle/person. I personally just like to keep it simple and streamlined with the thermal. I'm also kinda from the school of thought that for every device you add that requires a battery you complicate your night a little more.

Of course, YMMV on ALL of this and this info will not will not pertain to everyone. This may all seem pessimistic about NV, but it is in relation to thermal. Why do I still keep my NV? Well, it's better than having nothing, it's cool to see the stars, and I'm just a gear whore. Plus lasers are pretty neat-o.

Oh, and an ideal setup would be thermal rifle scope and thermal handheld monocle. Preferably on 6.8spc or 308 for hog, but that's another topic.

View Quote

Brilliant!

Posted: 12/28/2017 8:23:26 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Let me explain a little more why I no longer use my night vision ( which is an excellent tube). These are just my thoughts that I am just now pulling together and typing out on my phone (and then edited from my laptop of course). They are not planned out, just the observations I have made through use. Please forgive me if this is disjointed/redundant/already widespread info/doesn't flow together.

In no specific order:

There are many times where I can look out into a field and not see anything with the night vision. Then I pull up my thermal scope and I can see a mouse from 50 yards, or a couple of doe that has bed down, then an armadillo 100 yards away. I would have never seen those with the NV. It's amazing that I didn't realize how much movement goes on at night until I started using thermal.

I don't care what people say, with a good quality scope like a trijicon, identification is 100% easier with thermal. And again, if we're talking about hunting here, you do not need to be able to see through windows or identify faces. For example, when I do see something with my NV that is far away, I usually can't make out exactly what it is. I can then pull my thermal up and see that not only is it a buck, but I can even make out his antlers. The picture below is from my Reap-IR and I believe this is 4x zoom. With the native 2.5x optical zoom, that comes out to 9x zoom. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171044/IMG_7355-404103.JPG

Unless you are using a night vision scope or PVS14 clip on, you are going to have to use an IR laser. This is essentially firing without magnification and fwithout looking down the sights. It is definitely not the best solution. Let's say you are calling in a coyote. Do you want to wait until you call that coyote in so enough that you feel comfortable taking a shot with a weapon mounted laser, or do you want to be able to take a much longer shot with a scope and worry less about him discovering you? Do you want to stalk up to 25-50 yards on on a boar in the middle of the night, or take a very comfortable shot at 75+ yards? Yes, you can get a 3x lens adapter for your PVS14, but that's added money, weight, and further issues that will just take us even deeper into the weeds

Weapon mounting a PVS14 is generally a bad idea. I tried it one night and did not like it, so I ditched the idea. Some people might have better experiences. Also, the manufacturer I bought my PVS14 from (TNVC) advised against weapon mounting the unit because it can slowly tear the PVS14 apart.

Let's say you are running a helmet mounted PVS14 and a thermal scope. Badass right? Best of both worlds? Well, it's not that amazing. The thing is that you can counterweight the PVS14 so it doesn't wear out the muscles in the front and back of your neck, but what about the muscles on the side? When you flip your PVS14 up to look through your thermal all the weight of the helmet and NV unit are pulling on the muscles on the side of your neck. After looking through the scope for a very moderate amount of time it starts to hurt. I know some will say hit the weight room, but I'm in pretty damn good shape and it still annoys me. How many of us are even in moderate shape?