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Posted: 6/24/2019 6:49:49 PM EDT
[#1]
This is from 27 CFR 479.62 for the form 4, but the list should be the same. I don't know if you can change CLEO mid process.
Prior to the submission of the application to the Director, all transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of Form 4 or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the transferee or responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor. If the transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a partnership, company, association, or corporation, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at its principal office or principal place of business; if the transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a trust, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at the primary location at which the firearm will be maintained. |
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Posted: 6/24/2019 6:56:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is from 27 CFR 479.62 for the form 4, but the list should be the same. I don't know if you can change CLEO mid process. Prior to the submission of the application to the Director, all transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of Form 4 or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the transferee or responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor. If the transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a partnership, company, association, or corporation, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at its principal office or principal place of business; if the transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a trust, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at the primary location at which the firearm will be maintained. |
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Posted: 6/24/2019 7:25:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Did you send it to him?
Yes That is all that is required from you. They can't make him read it, accept it, file it, shred it, light his cigars with it. You sent it there. That's all you can do I am a CLEO. I get 'em in the mail rather regularly. I shred them as soon as I see them. BATFE can't make me do anything with them. I don't work for them. |
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Posted: 6/24/2019 7:28:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you send it to him? Yes That is all that is required from you. They can't make him read it, accept it, file it, shred it, light his cigars with it. You sent it there. That's all you can do I am a CLEO. I get 'em in the mail rather regularly. I shred them as soon as I see them. BATFE can't make me do anything with them. I don't work for them. |
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Posted: 6/24/2019 8:44:10 PM EDT
[#5]
You got the best possible result. You notified them and got your forms back. Even better than them trashing the forms.
In addition to the instructions on the form, this used to be in their FAQ section: Who may qualify as a certifying official on an ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4 for the making or transfer of an NFA firearm? As provided by regulations, certifications by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, or State or local district attorney or prosecutor are acceptable. The regulations also provide that certifications of other officials are appropriate if found in a particular case to be acceptable to the Director. Examples of other officials who have been accepted in specific situations include State attorneys general and judges of State courts having authority to conduct jury trials in felony cases. |
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Posted: 6/24/2019 8:45:13 PM EDT
[#6]
In other words...do nothing else.
If that person wasn’t an acceptable CLEO, ATF wouldn’t approve your form. That’s my take on it. FWIW...Silencer Shop started using the head of the highway patrol, then changed their policy and used the state AGs. Not sure if they still do or not....but maybe somebody with a recently submitted form could check. |
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Posted: 6/24/2019 10:56:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Time to move on.
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Posted: 6/25/2019 12:30:17 AM EDT
[#8]
You have no more obligation, you notified the head of law enforcement in the state you reside it, if they sent it back, throw in your files as it has a post mark on it and go on with your life..
You are done. |
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Posted: 6/25/2019 12:27:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I e-filed my F1 with my state attorney general as the CLEO. Sent off the packet after the weekend. I just got it back from his office saying that the Office of Attorney General can't accept it. I thought they could? What is my next course of action? Texas state attorney general is on my F1 submitted, not yet approved. Can I just send the packet to the Sheriff? You are done. In Texas AG/Paxton is valid, as is DPS/McCraw. If for some reason, ATF has recently determined AG/Paxton is no longer valid, ATF will tell you. But I have done hundreds to AG over the years. Even back when they needed to be signed. |
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Posted: 6/25/2019 1:08:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Are we supposed to use the lowest on the list that applies to us? E.g. if I live in a city I must use the city PD chief, and would go up the rung if I live outside such jurisdictions? I was told for my last couple forms to use the VBPD chief, but I'd rather not if I don't have to because the guy is a flaming anti.
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Posted: 6/25/2019 1:10:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are we supposed to use the lowest on the list that applies to us? E.g. if I live in a city I must use the city PD chief, and would go up the rung if I live outside such jurisdictions? I was told for my last couple forms to use the VBPD chief, but I'd rather not if I don't have to because the guy is a flaming anti. |
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Posted: 6/25/2019 1:31:27 PM EDT
[#12]
BATFE accepted one from me once that a circuit court judge in Oregon signed.
BATFE accepted it, because as I understood it, the judge could just order a police chief, or Sheriff to sign it. |
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Posted: 6/25/2019 1:53:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are we supposed to use the lowest on the list that applies to us? E.g. if I live in a city I must use the city PD chief, and would go up the rung if I live outside such jurisdictions? I was told for my last couple forms to use the VBPD chief, but I'd rather not if I don't have to because the guy is a flaming anti. 
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Posted: 6/25/2019 5:53:58 PM EDT
[#14]
This is really not all that complicated folks...
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Posted: 7/10/2019 4:57:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Just received my Form 4 CLEO copy (submitted 3/28/19) back from the (newly elected) CO Atty General.
Items of note: - Handwritten post it note on front saying "Return to sender. Does not go to attorney general." I assume that note was from the AG's office. - Received in a BATFE envelope. My guess is that CO AG walked it over to the local BATFE office and handed it off. Old CO AG just kept them (or tossed them). We'll see how many I end up getting back from the new guy. |
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Posted: 7/10/2019 8:30:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just received my Form 4 CLEO copy (submitted 3/28/19) back from the (newly elected) CO Atty General. Items of note: - Handwritten post it note on front saying "Return to sender. Does not go to attorney general." I assume that note was from the AG's office. - Received in a BATFE envelope. My guess is that CO AG walked it over to the local BATFE office and handed it off. Old CO AG just kept them (or tossed them). We'll see how many I end up getting back from the new guy. |
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Posted: 7/14/2019 1:03:18 AM EDT
[#17]
im glad you made this thread, OP. I just came home to this envelope with the CLEO form 1 copy i sent. Whats nice is they marked "received july 03 2019" all over the envelope and form, so they definitely got it
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Posted: 7/14/2019 1:07:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
im glad you made this thread, OP. I just came home to this envelope with the CLEO form 1 copy i sent. Whats nice is they marked "received july 03 2019" all over the envelope and form, so they definitely got it .
https://i.ibb.co/6gqCx77/001.jpg |
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Posted: 7/14/2019 1:19:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, and this might be a dumb question, but is the state attorney general not a state attorney? |
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Posted: 7/14/2019 11:20:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Silencer Shop sent my CLEO notice to the highway patrol. So far my dog is still alive.
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Posted: 7/19/2019 11:06:22 AM EDT
[#21]
As stated you're only required to SEND the info. You did. You should be GTG.
Sadly Maryland (in all their horsehit laws aplenty) codified that the secretary of state police is the ONLY "approval authority" for NFA. So we're forced to send it there. But again, he/she doesn't have any actual SAY in entities' apps. |
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Posted: 7/19/2019 12:01:45 PM EDT
[#22]
I've been putting my State AG as my CLEO and haven't had any issues.
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Posted: 7/21/2019 3:39:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Given the scanned letter above from Ohio's AG, it does give one pause to wonder if anyone else notifying the state AG's office becomes a matter of public record, and if a reporter or other individual were so inclined, found this thread, and decided to make a public records request concerning names/addresses of those who filed such paperwork with the AG's office....well you can probably see where it's going.
Do as thou wilt, and all that. |
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Posted: 7/21/2019 4:23:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given the scanned letter above from Ohio's AG, it does give one pause to wonder if anyone else notifying the state AG's office becomes a matter of public record, and if a reporter or other individual were so inclined, found this thread, and decided to make a public records request concerning names/addresses of those who filed such paperwork with the AG's office....well you can probably see where it's going. Do as thou wilt, and all that. I know we're not talking about gun permits, but I'd venture a guess the 2 scenarios would be handled similarly. Ohio: Records related to the issuance, renewal, suspension, or revocations of a concealed handgun license are not public records. A journalist, however, may inspect — but not copy — information in the gun permit records if a written request is submitted stating why disclosure of the information sought would be in the public interest. |
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Posted: 7/21/2019 4:35:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are correct for Texas. The AG is a civil prosecutor. Sent it to your county DA or Sheriff. There’s no action on their part or you need to worry about, just notification. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Right, and this might be a dumb question, but is the state attorney general not a state attorney? 
The Texas Attorney General (or his minions) prosecutes criminal cases anytime a local District Attorney requests it. The Texas AG most certainly is one of the persons that can receive the notification copy of a Form 1 or Form 4. <----FFL/SOT who's been sending his Form 4 copy to the Texas Attorney General since July 16th, 2016. ATF hasn't shot my dog yet. Silencer Shop sends ALL of there Texas Form 4's to the TX AG as well. |
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Posted: 7/21/2019 4:57:24 PM EDT
[#26]
You complied with the requirements put forth by the ATF.
And you have written proof that they received it. I would guess that the AGs office is just tired of getting all that junk mail. |
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Posted: 7/21/2019 5:43:20 PM EDT
[#27]
repeat
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Posted: 7/24/2019 2:44:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh? WTF is a "civil prosecutor"?
The Texas Attorney General (or his minions) prosecutes criminal cases anytime a local District Attorney requests it. The Texas AG most certainly is one of the persons that can receive the notification copy of a Form 1 or Form 4. <----FFL/SOT who's been sending his Form 4 copy to the Texas Attorney General since July 16th, 2016. ATF hasn't shot my dog yet. Silencer Shop sends ALL of there Texas Form 4's to the TX AG as well. The main responsibilities of the Office of the Attorney General are defending the State of Texas and its duly elected laws by providing legal representation to the State, serving the children of Texas through the enforcement of the state’s child support laws, securing justice for Texans, protecting Texans from waste, fraud, and abuse, and safeguarding the freedoms of Texans as guaranteed by the United States and Texas constitutions. Provide Legal Services The Attorney General of Texas is the state's chief legal officer. To fulfill the agency’s constitutional and statutory responsibilities, the OAG provides legal representation, counsel, and assistance to fulfill the needs of the State of Texas and its authorized entities and employees, including state officers, state agencies, and institutions of higher education. The OAG responds to the litigation needs of the State of Texas by defending and enforcing Texas law using appropriate pre-trial, trial, and appellate actions. The OAG also provides appropriate legal advice and answers to legal questions posed by state agencies and authorized office holders including the issuance of formal opinions and open records letters and decisions. https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/divisions |
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Posted: 7/24/2019 1:56:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're mistaken. [...] https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/divisions Criminal Justice A key component of the Office of the Attorney General’s mission is to secure justice for Texans by investigating and prosecuting criminal activities, including crimes of human trafficking, internet crimes against children, election fraud, and assisting local law enforcement in prosecutions and appeals. Attorney General prosecutors are experienced trial attorneys with a strong track record in both state and federal court. |
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Posted: 7/24/2019 2:31:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're mistaken. No sir, you are. See everything below in red. The main responsibilities of the Office of the Attorney General are defending the State of Texas and its duly elected laws by providing legal representation to the State, serving the children of Texas through the enforcement of the state’s child support laws, securing justice for Texans, protecting Texans from waste, fraud, and abuse, and safeguarding the freedoms of Texans as guaranteed by the United States and Texas constitutions. "waste, fraud and abuse" can easily and often are CRIMINAL offenses. Provide Legal Services The Attorney General of Texas is the state's chief legal officer. To fulfill the agency’s constitutional and statutory responsibilities, the OAG provides legal representation, counsel, and assistance to fulfill the needs of the State of Texas and its authorized entities and employees, including state officers, state agencies, and institutions of higher education. The OAG responds to the litigation needs of the State of Texas by defending and enforcing Texas law using appropriate pre-trial, trial, and appellate actions. The OAG also provides appropriate legal advice and answers to legal questions posed by state agencies and authorized office holders including the issuance of formal opinions and open records letters and decisions. https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/divisions Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Huh? WTF is a "civil prosecutor"?
The Texas Attorney General (or his minions) prosecutes criminal cases anytime a local District Attorney requests it. The Texas AG most certainly is one of the persons that can receive the notification copy of a Form 1 or Form 4. <----FFL/SOT who's been sending his Form 4 copy to the Texas Attorney General since July 16th, 2016. ATF hasn't shot my dog yet. Silencer Shop sends ALL of there Texas Form 4's to the TX AG as well. The main responsibilities of the Office of the Attorney General are defending the State of Texas and its duly elected laws by providing legal representation to the State, serving the children of Texas through the enforcement of the state’s child support laws, securing justice for Texans, protecting Texans from waste, fraud, and abuse, and safeguarding the freedoms of Texans as guaranteed by the United States and Texas constitutions. "waste, fraud and abuse" can easily and often are CRIMINAL offenses. Provide Legal Services The Attorney General of Texas is the state's chief legal officer. To fulfill the agency’s constitutional and statutory responsibilities, the OAG provides legal representation, counsel, and assistance to fulfill the needs of the State of Texas and its authorized entities and employees, including state officers, state agencies, and institutions of higher education. The OAG responds to the litigation needs of the State of Texas by defending and enforcing Texas law using appropriate pre-trial, trial, and appellate actions. The OAG also provides appropriate legal advice and answers to legal questions posed by state agencies and authorized office holders including the issuance of formal opinions and open records letters and decisions. https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/divisions The Attorney General Ken Paxton is the State of Texas’s chief legal officer. As provided by the Texas Constitution and statutes, the main responsibilities of the Office of Attorney General are:
•Defending the State of Texas and its duly enacted laws by providing legal representation to the State, its officials and agencies, rendering legal opinions, reviewing bonds of public security, and ensuring compliance with the Texas Public Information Act. •Serving the children of Texas through the enforcement of the state’s child support laws and the collection of child support on behalf of Texas families. •Securing justice for Texans by investigating and prosecuting criminal activities, including crimes of human trafficking, internet crimes against children, election fraud, assisting local law enforcement in prosecutions and appeals, investigating Medicaid fraud, apprehending fugitives, and providing support to victims of violent crime and administering victim assistance programs. •Protecting Texans from fraud, waste and abuse by enforcing consumer protection and antitrust laws, educating consumers on fraudulent scams, and seeking recovery from Medicaid fraudsters in civil action. •Safeguarding the freedoms of Texans as guaranteed by the United States and Texas constitutions. To fulfill these responsibilities, the Office of the Attorney General serves as legal counsel to all boards and agencies of state government, issues legal opinions when requested by the Governor, heads of state agencies and other officials and agencies as provided by Texas statutes, sits as an ex-officio member of state committees and commissions, and defends challenges to state laws and suits against both state agencies and individual employees of the State. The Office of the Attorney General has taken on numerous other roles through the years. Texas statutes contain thousands of references to the Attorney General. In addition to its constitutionally prescribed duties, the Office of the Attorney General files civil suits upon referral by other state agencies. In some circumstances, the Attorney General has original jurisdiction to prosecute violations of the law, but in most cases, criminal prosecutions by the Attorney General are initiated only upon the request of a local prosecutor. Although the Attorney General is prohibited from offering legal advice or representing private individuals, he serves and protects the rights of all citizens of Texas through the activities of the various divisions of the agencies. Actions that benefit all citizens of this state include enforcement of health, safety and consumer regulations; educational outreach programs and protection of the rights of the elderly and disabled. The Attorney General is also charged with the collection of court-ordered child support and the administration of the Crime Victims' Compensation Fund. |
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