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Posted: 8/22/2022 5:39:34 PM EDT
[#1]
1972 is 50 years ago. There are are a decent number of modern sporting type of guns and hand guns that are C&R with dealers willing to ship them to C&R holders on gunbroker, but not all will. If you have the money, a lot of NFA guns are turning 50. I havent bought anything since I renewed, but I have been looking at Win 30/30's pre 64 and Ruger Super Blackhawks 3 screw that are unmodified. If the recession brings the prices down I will buy one or both but as of yet the prices seem to be hold on these.
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Posted: 8/22/2022 6:58:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1972 is 50 years ago. There are are a decent number of modern sporting type of guns and hand guns that are C&R with dealers willing to ship them to C&R holders on gunbroker, but not all will. If you have the money, a lot of NFA guns are turning 50. I havent bought anything since I renewed, but I have been looking at Win 30/30's pre 64 and Ruger Super Blackhawks 3 screw that are unmodified. If the recession brings the prices down I will buy one or both but as of yet the prices seem to be hold on these. For me it’s well worth it - just depends upon if you are routinely buying guns or not. And if I buy a C&R gun from a local dealer, I also get to skip the waiting period. $30 every 3 years is also a not-undue financial burden. ;) |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 9:52:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Thank you for your responses. I decided not to renew as it brings no benefit to me.
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Posted: 8/31/2022 2:19:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $30 every 3 years is also a not-undue financial burden. ;) No shit. <----07FFL/SOT I charge $20 for a transfer ($10 with an LTC) It amazes me the # of people who happily pay me several times per year for their C&R eligible firearms. Less than $1 a month. |
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Posted: 8/31/2022 3:43:45 PM EDT
[#5]
I let mine go. It came down to no longer wanting to keep A&D records.
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Posted: 8/31/2022 3:49:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I let mine go. It came down to no longer wanting to keep A&D records. |
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Posted: 8/31/2022 3:52:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: My license is up for renewal, but I haven't bought anything in the past 10 years using this license. Is it still worth having the license? Brownells does provide some discount, but it hasn't been large enough for me. BTW, I was told by a person at Brownell’s that you get to keep your discount even if you let your license go. |
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Posted: 8/31/2022 9:24:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BTW, I was told by a person at Brownell's that you get to keep your discount even if you let your license go. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 8:48:44 AM EDT
[#9]
I had a C&R license for 18 years and didn't renew this time. I got it for cheap military surplus guns. They have dried up and I haven't used it in several years.
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Posted: 9/5/2022 9:58:03 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have dried up and I haven't used it in several years. Yeah have to agree. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 10:18:11 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1972 is 50 years ago. There are are a decent number of modern sporting type of guns and hand guns that are C&R with dealers willing to ship them to C&R holders on gunbroker, but not all will. If you have the money, a lot of NFA guns are turning 50. I havent bought anything since I renewed, but I have been looking at Win 30/30's pre 64 and Ruger Super Blackhawks 3 screw that are unmodified. If the recession brings the prices down I will buy one or both but as of yet the prices seem to be hold on these. I have a C&R but never looked at NFA with it. So if a NFA firearm falls into the C&R age does it still require a Form 4? |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 11:44:48 AM EDT
[#12]
Just in case there's anyone who hasn't figured it out, anything made prior to 1972 is now a C&R. That includes a boatload of desirable modern guns -- nice S&W revolvers, lots of good hunting rifles, shotguns, etc. The C&R has basically entered the modern age of guns. It's no longer just for milsurps.
For the collector, or those who appreciate older guns, a C&R is a great thing to have. In my case, though, I finally decided I no longer wanted to invite the man into my life. I realize that the ATF rarely, if ever, inspects C&R license holders, but they can if they choose to. And yes, you have the option of going to their office since they only get to do a records check, not an inventory. But, still, you are subject to the ATF when you have a license. What finally caused me to let my C&R lapse was that I entered into a liquidation phase, where I began selling off some of my guns. While most people don't mind letting you record their ID information when selling them a gun, it does cause a bit of awkwardness. Without the A&D book requirement of the C&R, it's nice to just be able to exchange portraits of dead presidents and be done with it. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 12:06:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a C&R but never looked at NFA with it. So if a NFA firearm falls into the C&R age does it still require a Form 4? Of course. It just means the firearm can ship directly to you as an 03 and not to an FFL/SOT. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 12:36:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just in case there's anyone who hasn't figured it out, anything made prior to 1972 is now a C&R. That includes a boatload of desirable modern guns -- nice S&W revolvers, lots of good hunting rifles, shotguns, etc. The C&R has basically entered the modern age of guns. It's no longer just for milsurps. For the collector, or those who appreciate older guns, a C&R is a great thing to have. In my case, though, I finally decided I no longer wanted to invite the man into my life. I realize that the ATF rarely, if ever, inspects C&R license holders, but they can if they choose to. And yes, you have the option of going to their office since they only get to do a records check, not an inventory. But, still, you are subject to the ATF when you have a license. What finally caused me to let my C&R lapse was that I entered into a liquidation phase, where I began selling off some of my guns. While most people don't mind letting you record their ID information when selling them a gun, it does cause a bit of awkwardness. Without the A&D book requirement of the C&R, it's nice to just be able to exchange portraits of dead presidents and be done with it. Based upon the 50 year age limitation, will items like AR15's and such fall into the C&R category at some point? I cannot imagine the AFT would like an AR15 delivered to your door. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 1:01:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based upon the 50 year age limitation, will items like AR15's and such fall into the C&R category at some point? I cannot imagine the AFT would like an AR15 delivered to your door. The law is the law. Anything 50 years old is C&R. You do have to be able to verify it's 50 years old, though. Also, just because something is 50 years old and qualifies as C&R does not mean that an individual FFL is required to play along. Some FFLs refuse to honor C&R licenses for shipments (partly because you can't verify a C&R license with the EZ check system). |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 1:38:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The law is the law. Anything 50 years old is C&R. You do have to be able to verify it's 50 years old, though. Also, just because something is 50 years old and qualifies as C&R does not mean that an individual FFL is required to play along. Some FFLs refuse to honor C&R licenses for shipments (partly because you can't verify a C&R license with the EZ check system). Understood, good info to know. I imagine by the time AR's become widely eligible, there will be a revision of 'law' similar to bumpstock and/or what they may be attempting w pistol braces. |
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Posted: 9/5/2022 5:45:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Understood, good info to know. I imagine by the time AR's become widely eligible, there will be a revision of 'law' similar to bumpstock and/or what they may be attempting w pistol braces. Possibly. The brace Proposed Rule gets down to the weeds of what is considered a stock, with the ability to be subjective. Since the C&R laws refers to any firearms that's 50 years or older being C&R, it'll be harder to say that doesn't apply to certain types of firearms. I use mine once per 4-5 years, but just renewed it. It's the price of a meal out for 3 years, and just when you let it go, you'd want to have it again. Plus, as above, any MG's that are 50 years or older can be sent right to your door. Would be a hoot to have the post man deliver a crate with an M60 in it! |
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Posted: 9/7/2022 9:32:36 AM EDT
[#18]
I used mine this past weekend at a show, had over a copy and cash and walk away,saves the time filling out paper work.
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Posted: 9/10/2022 1:56:49 PM EDT
[#19]
I have one, never use it. Reason, most ffl's least those in my area, outright refuse to recognize it. Secondly the lack of being able to utilize the u.s mail service creates more issues than it's worth.......most common carriers are an outright pain to deal with. Further, check out the ad's on gunbroker or most other sites that clearly proclaim no C&R..............so why bother, only reason I still have mine is that I haven't got around to sending it back to them!
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Posted: 9/12/2022 9:03:08 AM EDT
[#20]
I just received my renewal form from the AFT
 For many of the reasons already mentioned in this thread I too really have no desire to continue to keep my license and am now thinking of not renewing again. I do have two questions: 1) I see on the form there is a section called "Not renewing?". Do I need to even do this or can I disregard sending this in and just let my license lapse/expire? I see in the very small fine print I am not required to send my bound book into them. I will probably scan it and save it for my pc personal records just in case and destroy the paper bound book copy. 2) I have some C&R eligible firearms I no longer desire to keep and am thinking of selling on the EE or gunbroker, etc. When I go to sell them, can I still offer to ship to buyers with active FFL03 licenses despite me no longer having an active license? I am assuming yes as it would be the same as shipping a non FFL03 firearm to a FFL01 holder that accepts from individuals, but I thought I would still ask here. Sorry if these have been asked. I tried searching here, but didn't find any answers. Thanks |
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Posted: 9/13/2022 8:46:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Filled my renewal out yesterday. It's advantages outweigh not having it still so I did it.
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Posted: 9/13/2022 9:34:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have one, never use it. Reason, most ffl's least those in my area, outright refuse to recognize it. Secondly the lack of being able to utilize the u.s mail service creates more issues than it's worth.......most common carriers are an outright pain to deal with. Further, check out the ad's on gunbroker or most other sites that clearly proclaim no C&R..............so why bother, only reason I still have mine is that I haven't got around to sending it back to them! The salad days of bulk wholesale milsurps are long gone. Too many 01 FFL's won't accept a C&R 03 license. Either because they're paranoid that it will cause trouble with ATF inspections, or because they think 03 FFL's undercut their business somehow. Even when I bought the C&R eligible firearm as a private individual on a 4473 anyway because I wanted it badly enough, I've gotten flak from them when I wanted their 01 FFL info for my bound A&D book. Acting like it was secret information, or implying that it could be used for a scam somehow. Private sellers, even worse. And very few sellers, if any, FFL or private, will not sell firearms to you on your 03 if it's anything other than a milsurp bolt action. Despite it being over 50 years old. Handguns - even if milsurp, anything semi-auto like an M1 Carbine or Garand, or any commercially sold firearm, or is still too "new" because similar models are still being sold today. They're all too "scary" I guess. |
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Posted: 9/13/2022 10:20:37 AM EDT
[#23]
I let mine lapse after biden got elected. I didnt want to be on the list anymore. I might reup. But anything I buy at this point is mostly F2F.
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Posted: 9/21/2022 5:07:43 PM EDT
[#24]
My application for renewal is on my desk. Really thinking hard about it this time.
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Posted: 10/2/2022 2:27:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Personally I do enough buying - and occasional selling - of 50+ year old firearms that are post-1898 that it makes sense for me to keep my C&R. In fact I recently renewed it and bought a 1960s shotgun. It never gets old to have things like that show up at the post office.
 Along with everyone else here I sure do miss the old days of seemingly always having new batches of surplus to pick from though! |
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Posted: 10/2/2022 2:47:55 PM EDT
[#26]
I got mine last year again after letting it expire over a decade ago. I use it often but it's for specific guns I want in my collection, not a general "buy everything because it's cheap" thing like in the past. If you are actually trying to collect instead of "accumulate" it makes sense.
If an ad says "will ship to FFL only, not C&R" I don't bother with it because it's obviously written by a retard, and it makes their photos and description immediately suspect. It won't be long before every transferrable machinegun is C&R. I'm waiting on a stamp for one right now. |
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Posted: 10/10/2022 2:17:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Yeah, only 14 more years till ever MG is a C&R, and lots of them are already - all the WWI and II stuff, Korea, Vietnam era, S&W 76's, early AR's. It's a nice plus to be able to have them shipped right to you - with the provision that if they are a MG but also "concealable" as per USPS regulation (so handgun like a full auto Mauser BroomHandel or also SBR), they can't be shipped by a non-01 FFL via the Post Office, and it's harder and harder for a private joe to ship via the private carriers.
With regards to this comment: Even when I bought the C&R eligible firearm as a private individual on a 4473 anyway because I wanted it badly enough, I've gotten flak from them when I wanted their 01 FFL info for my bound A&D book. Acting like it was secret information, or implying that it could be used for a scam somehow. Like the rest of us, FFL dealers are all over the place. Some have a downloadable copy of the FFL on their public web site for Gunbroker style transfers, other grasp it like Gollum and the Ring of Power (fat dude with neckbeard whispering "My Precious" while stroking his FFL in the back of his shop). Their name and address would be on the bill of sale - and do you need their full FFL number for your C&R bound book? In looking over my receipts, AIM Surplus didn't include their FFL number at all, and Classic had a number, about 12 X's, then the last 4. Is that all that's needed in the book? Do I need to holler at AIM for what their FFL is too? |
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Posted: 10/10/2022 4:42:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, only 14 more years till ever MG is a C&R, and lots of them are already - all the WWI and II stuff, Korea, Vietnam era, S&W 76's, early AR's. It's a nice plus to be able to have them shipped right to you - with the provision that if they are a MG but also "concealable" as per USPS regulation (so handgun like a full auto Mauser BroomHandel or also SBR), they can't be shipped by a non-01 FFL via the Post Office, and it's harder and harder for a private joe to ship via the private carriers. With regards to this comment:https://www.atf.gov/firearms/listing-federal-firearms-licensees Even when I bought the C&R eligible firearm as a private individual on a 4473 anyway because I wanted it badly enough, I've gotten flak from them when I wanted their 01 FFL info for my bound A&D book. Acting like it was secret information, or implying that it could be used for a scam somehow. Like the rest of us, FFL dealers are all over the place. Some have a downloadable copy of the FFL on their public web site for Gunbroker style transfers, other grasp it like Gollum and the Ring of Power (fat dude with neckbeard whispering "My Precious" while stroking his FFL in the back of his shop). Their name and address would be on the bill of sale - and do you need their full FFL number for your C&R bound book? In looking over my receipts, AIM Surplus didn't include their FFL number at all, and Classic had a number, about 12 X's, then the last 4. Is that all that's needed in the book? Do I need to holler at AIM for what their FFL is too? First three and last five digits is all you need. The numbers between those change as the license is renewed, but first three and last five are forever. As for the top secret nature of FFL license information, anyone with an internet browser can view and/or download Excel files with the license information for any FFL on the ATF's website https://www.atf.gov/firearms/listing-federal-firearms-licensees |
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Posted: 10/11/2022 7:55:09 PM EDT
[#29]
I've picked up a few SKS's, a couple of Tokarevs, Carcanos, K31s, a Hakim, and a few old 22s. No amazing deals but still some good stuff out there.
A few websites still give 03 FFL discounts |
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Posted: 11/1/2022 1:08:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, only 14 more years till ever MG is a C&R, and lots of them are already - all the WWI and II stuff, Korea, Vietnam era, S&W 76's, early AR's. It's a nice plus to be able to have them shipped right to you - with the provision that if they are a MG but also "concealable" as per USPS regulation (so handgun like a full auto Mauser BroomHandel or also SBR), they can't be shipped by a non-01 FFL via the Post Office, and it's harder and harder for a private joe to ship via the private carriers. With regards to this comment: Even when I bought the C&R eligible firearm as a private individual on a 4473 anyway because I wanted it badly enough, I've gotten flak from them when I wanted their 01 FFL info for my bound A&D book. Acting like it was secret information, or implying that it could be used for a scam somehow. Like the rest of us, FFL dealers are all over the place. Some have a downloadable copy of the FFL on their public web site for Gunbroker style transfers, other grasp it like Gollum and the Ring of Power (fat dude with neckbeard whispering "My Precious" while stroking his FFL in the back of his shop). Their name and address would be on the bill of sale - and do you need their full FFL number for your C&R bound book? In looking over my receipts, AIM Surplus didn't include their FFL number at all, and Classic had a number, about 12 X's, then the last 4. Is that all that's needed in the book? Do I need to holler at AIM for what their FFL is too? You can use the other FFL's name and address OR name and FFL number. One or the other. If you're using the FFL number, it is supposed to be the entire 15 digit number listed in the A&D book. |
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Posted: 11/1/2022 2:07:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BTW, I was told by a person at Brownell's that you get to keep your discount even if you let your license go. |
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Posted: 11/1/2022 2:11:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can use the other FFL's name and address OR name and FFL number. One or the other. If you're using the FFL number, it is supposed to be the entire 15 digit number listed in the A&D book. Said no IOI Ive ever had in the last fourteen years. First three, last five is perfectly acceptable. |
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