Anybody have experience with one of these Charles Daly auto loaders? Specifically the “tactical” version?
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Been looking for a Mossberg 930 SPX Tactical forever and found the Stoeger while searching the internet.

I was going to make this same thread after seeing that shotgun yesterday.

There’s exactly zero info out there that I can find. The manual on the CD website is for the 601 Field, which looks different and has a different receiver design.

It looks a lot like a somewhat simpler Toros T4, but could CD get it in enough bulk to shave off $300?

Kinda considering buying one to checkout.

It’s been out-of-stock off and on at KYGUNCo for months. Every time I get an in stock notification, it sells out before I can add it to my cart. I need another auto loading 12 gauge like I need another hole in my head, but dammit, I want one.

I did some more digging and backed out my searching to look for Turkish clones of the Benelli M4.  Apparently they are a pretty common deal since the patents on Benelli's stuff have expired.

The main contenders in that list largely show up in Canuckistan and New Zealand:
- Girsan MC312
- Komando P4
- Canuck Operator
- Toros Copolla T4
- Sulun Arms Tac-12

The 601 DPS receiver and rail position were what stood out to me.  The Girsan and Komando have receivers and optic rails that have very different patterns.  I'm not sure of the origins on the Canuck, but the front sight, rear sight, and optic rail are different, so it's out.  The Toros and Sulun are both pretty much 1:1 clones of the M4, though most pictures of them have the collapsing stock.  The trigger guard on the Toros is a bigger winter-style one and their mag tube looks a lot like the Benelli one.  I found some pictures of the Sulun that shows the same mag tube as the 601 DPS, so my money is on the Sulun Tac-12 being the 601 DPS.  As it turns out Sulun is the OEM for CD's new N4S bullpup shotgun as well, so they've got an existing export relationship with them.  The major price difference between the US and Canadian models is likely due to the collapsing stock being swapped for the less complicated fixed pistol grip one.

Checking on the Suluns, these might be the "Gen 2" version.  Apparently the Gen 1 the bolt release button is behind the charging handle when the bolt is forward, the Gen 2 is directly below, as is on the M4.  The video KyGunCo put out for their "Black November" Week 4 show the release directly below the charging handle as well.  Supposedly the Gen 2 is also directly compatible with the M4 collapsible stock (and all other M4 parts?) but that's apocryphal until we see a US model with the fixed pistol grip stock torn down.  The Gen 1 was compatible with the stock after changing the recoil tube out.

The Gen 1 had generally positive reviews, most running well, others having issues with sear engagement or the lifter not picking rounds.  Supposedly Gen 2 "resolves" those issues and other QC details.  CD has a 5-year warranty so it might be worth trying out.

They are $550 at KyGunCo right now.  Worst case, I don't like it and end up putting it up for consignment at the local pawn shop.  In the famous ARFCOM words: fuck it, i'm foing.

ETA - I'm wrong.  It was made by Merak, the CA612 Tactical.  Still an M4 clone, but the recoil tube IS different.  Pictures below.  Supposedly could be replaced with the Benelli part though.

Thanks for your insight.

Thanks, guys!  Now I have another shotgun on the way.

Mine will be at my FFL on Tuesday, probably be Wednesday before I can get over to pick it up.  I’ll share what details and photos shake out of it.

Oops! You are correct. I’ve been looking at the Stoeger as well, but it’s always out of stock. Title edited.

The Charles Daly is INDEED the one I’m looking at on their website.

Just put in my order this morning. I’m surprised this thing was still showing In Stock. I figured if I kept putting it off, it would go out-Of-stock and save me money. No such luck. Site says 14-21 days processing/shipping due to current climate. I’ll update when it shows up.

Just shot mine over the weekend.  1 failure to feed with walmart cheapo winchester target out of about 75 rds fire of mixed game, buck, and slugs.  After reviewing videos of people taking down the benelli M4 and showing its gas system.  The charles daly 601 seems to be a direct copy of the Benelli M4 but has a different way of limiting the magazine tube and a different buttstock system.  Overall I am impress with this shotgun and will be ordering a benelli 7rd tube to see if it fits.

Please update us if/when you do.

Mine arrived today.  Not going to be able to shoot for a while but I can confirm it is an M4 clone.  Dual pistons, trigger group is the same, bolt looks the same.  ETA - Overall, the mechanics of the shotgun are nice.  Nicely machined, action is really smooth.

One negative, when I pulled the trigger group the internals of the stock that attach it to the recoil tube broke. Won't turn off, flops around now.  I went ahead and contacted CD to see what they recommend.  It's a bolt behind that buttpad that holds it onto the recoil tube.  Bolt was loose.  Not broken, just me being stupid. Le sigh.

Other notes - it is marked as being imported from "Merak" and the CD International website has them as the CA612 Tactical.  My Sulun Arms assumption appears to be wrong.  It is a different recoil tube, pictured below.  I was initially upset but now I really want to track down one of the original Merak stocks for it.

ETA 574358345 - I'm overreacting on the stock compatibility.  Getting an M4 collapsing stock is a damn near impossibility these days, and if I've paid for the stock, getting the tube isn't that much more.  Getting most of an M4 for $550 is still pretty crazy.

What was the processing/shipping time for you? I bought a pistol from them in late summer and it arrived in a few days.
@Findsman

Order placed on 11/23, shipped on 11/25, received 11/30.

Not too bad. I’ve purchased a couple handguns from them without issue previously.

For anybody that has one in hand, could you snap a pic or take a guess if the recoil tube is similar enough to a benelli m4 to put a mesa tactical urbino stock on it? Trying to decide between charles daly and copolla turknelli.

I’ve used them twice in the past. They’ve usually shipped fast.

I got brave this morning and figured out how to take the stock apart.

It's like pretty much every other shotgun in the world, take the buttpad off first.  Then there's a carriage bolt that feeds into the recoil tube.  My bolt was loose, hence the stock flopping around.  Easy enough to resolve.

The recoil tube is NOT a Benelli compatible design for sure.  It looks like a baby M4 receiver extension to be honest.  I'd love to find one of the Turkish stocks that fit it since it's got a ton more adjustability than the 3-position.  I'll probably get a Benelli tube down the road if I can't though since they are supposed to be compatible.

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Interesting.

Thank you for posting the recoil spring tube pics. From lurking on the Canadian forums it sounds like the benelli tube screws right on. But finding a way to get the Canadian collapsible stock is another option. I was set on the urbino stock tho.

Looks like it's different from the Mossberg 930 design too, parts for many of these guns are hard to find.

Got a shipping notification this morning. Should be here next week.

Got one on the way from gun broker for 466. Will report back once it arrives

There’s one on GunsAmerica.com for $499, but I’ve never bought from that website, only GB. Mine will be in Saturday.

Got a US mag tube, follower, and FFT handguards on the way.  Hopefully my heatgun will be sufficient to get the original one off.

Despite my initial incident with it, I'm pleased with the stock.  It has a good length, grip angle, and generous recoil pad.  Just going to let that be until I can find either one of the Merak-style adjustable ones or hell freezes over and Benelli parts are easier to find.

Just picked mine up. This is a stout gun. Not outrageously heavy like the last Turkish coach gun I had years ago. Comes with mag tube plug, 5 chokes with wrench and pretty detailed instruction manual with plenty of take-down/re-assembly pics. Finish is good. Rubber pistol grip and butt pad have really good grip to them. Front site has a big white dot that’s easy to pick up. It also has the sling attachments installed. Gonna go out back and try it out.

I’ve got one. I know some folks hate Turkish made firearms, but they make some decent clones. My TP9SF is an absolute tack driver and was a bargain at $265ish NIB. This Charles Daly is built like a tank it seems. Ghost ring sights with a big white dot on the front which is quite easy to focus on.

5+1, non-swivel sling mounts, 5 chokes + case and a mag tube plug. Don’t think I’ll be using the plug as I don’t plan on hunting with this gun. As the previous poster said, it comes with a very detailed manual with step by step pics and tutorials for disassembly and cleaning. I ran 100rds of cheapo #7 thru it right out of the box with zero issues. A few dozen rounds of Rio 00 buck cycled flawlessly as well.

This is a poor mans Benelli M4. For $550ish I like it, a lot.

Pics make all threads better. Still stock. For now.



Yep, there's the dual gas pistons.  Chromed barrel and chamber.

Got mine in today and tore it down for inspection. Everything is well machined and fits together nicely. I will try to get it out to the range in a week or 2

Ordered a Dave's Metal Works 7 shot tube, I hope it fits

Keep us updated.

Can confirm a DMW tube fits just fine.  Used some steel wire to pull the follower to the top of the tube and keep it out of the way.  Was going to use a heat gun but then I found my MAPP torch I had forgotten about. About 40-60 seconds of careful heat around the outside and inside of the tube at the receiver and I was able to turn it loose by hand.

After it cooled off, Dave’s tube screwed right on. I used the spring he included as well, it had several inches on the stock spring so figured it would give more positive feeding.  NDZ lime green follower with FFT handguards to complete my Benelli 922r trifecta.

Discovered I hate that standard Benelli-style charging handle though.  Bit me pretty good while function checking. That’ll be the next upgrade.

Do you have a link to what you installed?

Sure!

http://davesmetalworks.com/m4.html - The 1-piece replacement tube for $85 there.  Includes a spring.

https://www.ndzperformance.com/category-s/18472.htm - Variety of colors, just note the 12ga vs 20ga difference.  Green is my favorite color and the lime flavor looks good with the shotgun's black finish.

https://freedomfightertactical.com/collections/m4/products/the-freedom-fighter-tactical-922-compliant-forend-for-the-benelli-m4-shotgun-black - US copies of the stock handguards.  They did require just a little bit of fitting at the receiver-end but FFT does note that on their website.

I'll need to do one more if I ever track down the Turkish adjustable stock or go whole-hog on the Benelli tube and stock.  Probably do something in the trigger group or guard, FFT has a ton of options for both.

ETA - The MAPP torch I used was one of those BernzoMatic trigger-start propane ones you can get from WM or Home Depot/Lowe’s for $30-$40. Nothing fancy, propane is not hot enough to cut the metal/damage the finish/mess up the heat treat, but good enough for melting loctite and sweating pipes, if you need another use for it.

If you find a stock that fits the factory ext let us know please

If I do, I’ll be sure to share it. I’ve run down leads in Canada to see if they have any but no dice. Charles Daly International in Italy is ignoring me so far but I think Italy is back under the ‘Rona boot so it could be no one on the other end.

Turkish shotgun manufacturers are like roaches, they are all over the place. They have so many front companies and export company shells that it’s hard to figure out who made what. I think Merak is one of those export fronts controlled by Chiappa to obscure their OEMs. I suspect Sulun is the actual manufacturer on these, so my initial research was likely correct.

ETA - Toros is right around the corner from Sulun as well, so the T4 may be like the “new” Inland M1 carbines that were really just rebadged Gucci Kahr/AO guns.

Anyone know if a Mesa Urbino stock will fit over that mini M4 stock extension? It’s a pretty intriguing little gun but I just hate the long length of pull on these things from the factory.

Biggest downside of the gun is how long that stock is

Thanks.

Well I grabbed one from kygunco. Benelliparts.com had the recoil spring assembly so I grabbed one of them, I’m wondering how much thread locker they put on the factory receiver extension... Hopefully it’s not a nightmare to remove!

I can say the mag tube wasn't overloaded with it, but it's definitely there.  When I had the stock off, it didn't look gooped everywhere--you can see the pics up a bit further in the thread.  It doesn't take much to make turning it damn near impossible though.  

I didn't look to see if there was a spring clip holding everything in--if so, pop it loose and take the spring and buffer out before heating it up.  If not, well, I guess you'll see how they handle the heat.  Propane torch for 20 seconds at a time or 15-20 minutes with a heatgun.  I like the torch because you don't get as much heat soak with it, more controlled.  Leather gloves so you don't burn yourself.

After all the US parts inclusion:

Looks identical to mine! LoL. I see you removed the rubber pad off the charging handle? Mines kinda loose. Maybe it was just for shipping purposes?

Ha, yes, the pad is the same thing that gets stuffed onto AK charging handles.  They are intended to keep the handle from poking through the box during shipping.  The CD box was especially flimsy.

Ah yes, very flimsy. I tore it trying to remove the shotgun.

I’m tapped out on toy funds right now otherwise I’d try myself, but I’m curious to hear the results if anyone tries a side saddle like the Mesa Tactical ones.  Dunno if the screw pattern is the same; they look very similar in pics.

I stumbled on this thread when it first started, late at night and after a few beers.  I don't even know why I clicked on it as I tend to stay away from Charles Daly shotguns and similar firearms due to their past reputation for the most part.  But somehow I convinced myself to order a 601 DPS from Kentucky Gun Co. the next day before they raised their price $20-$30.  I received the gun last Tuesday (in 4 business days), brought it home and took it apart and lubed it.  I have never owned a Benelli M4 so I can only speak for what I see of this gun.  Like others have said, it seems solidly built.  The handguards are basic but fit well so nothing major there.  I was hesitant on getting a pistol gripped shotgun due to my last one beating my cheek up (870 with a collapsible stock), but the 601 DPS is very comfortable.  For me it shoulders nice and my eyes line up on the sights great.  The pistol grip is comfy and fits my hand well.  The buttstock has a decent recoil pad and doesn't have the hollow/cheap sound of a Remington SPS crap stock.  It doesn't beat my cheap up at all.
    Function wise, I only shot it with 2 3/4 target loads as that is all that I have except for some federal #1 buck from 2 decades ago.  I realize that this gun is not intended for dove loads but that is mostly what I have at the present time. It functioned 100% with Herters 7 1/2 1 oz loads (1290 fps) and Monarch 7 1/2 1 oz loads (1350 fps).  With Winchester 7 1/2 1 oz game loads (1290fps) it was 70% until I reached 300+ rounds of various ammo.  Now it seems to cycle all 3 at 100%.
    My biggest gripes are that the rear sight windage screw and sight platform do not have the "detent" to keep it from turning.  Mine would back out during extended firing and the ghost ring would move to the left. It's a shotgun, not a precision firearm so that is not a huge deal but it is something to keep in mind.  I loctited mine so we will see how that goes ($50 at Midwest gun works would solve this).  The second is the picatinny rail is not the same spec as an AR or similar.  Maybe its a weaver/picatinny mix or whatever but the width of the cuts/slots is .015-020 narrower that a true picatinny rail resulting in a Larue and ADM QD throw lever mount not fitting.  Again, not a big deal to me as I don't plan on putting anything on there anyway or if I did I'd just use a different mount system.  The trigger is long and creepy but has gotten better and like most shotguns you don't really notice it while firing.  My other issue or potential issue is parts availability.  It may break in the future or not and it may be compatible with Benelli M4 parts.  Which parts, I am not sure.  It does have a "warranty" but it's a Turkish shotgun so who knows how that might go as far as availability.  In summary, I like the gun as a fun range toy or maybe more depending on how it goes past the 300+ rounds I have put through it.

Thanks for your feedback/experience.

Added a Benelli 3 pos stock extension and Mesa stock to shorten the super long length of pull. Also added the Daves metal works 7 shot tube. 300 rounds trough it so far and it has been great. My rear sight has not drifted loose yet but I am watching it to see if it will since it lacks detents. Even managed to ring steel at 100 with the full choke and Federal 00 buck.

Looks good.

Thanks. Fired another 150rds of cheap RIO buck this afternoon and no issues yet

Is it possible to change the pistol grip stock to a standard  type buttstock? does it have interchangeable Chokes?