Assuming you have a .45 that can handle the stuff already, is it worth it? Pros/cons?

Gives you more ooomph for bear.  More recoil than needed for lesser two-legged predators.

Would be fun out of a HiPoint carbine.

I set up my 1911s to handle .45 super. Check function and call it good. They still work with standard ball.

I find my reloads to be a good compromise. 255gr swc @940fps

My Hk USPT can handle it.  Just never got around handloading some up.

Not really sure it's worth it.

I just bought a couple boxes of super,  I am going to find out for myself as to what I like or don't about it.

I tried it in a G21 and G30. Recoil is stiff especially out of the 30. I still preferred a good 180 out of a 10mm so only played with it a couple years.

Has anyone shot .45 Super, or even the +P ACP loads, out of a Shield .45 or Glock 36? That would seem to be a nice option for a compact gun you could CCW or carry in the woods. Only 6+1 or 7+1 but a quicker reload than a revolver, you could reload with 1 hand, you could mount a weapon light (I think...?) and the Super and +P ACP loads are up there next to .44 Special.

I am experimenting with 45 Super to see if it is better than 10mm for bear defense.  I am tired of carrying a 454 or bigger in the back country.   Like the idea of a good semi auto if I would need more rounds than five or six.  I am also experimenting with the 460 Rowland.

Not that I need one for bears, but let us know how things shake out.  The only real reason I never jumped on the 10 mm wagon is it's one more caliber to keep in stock.

I've loaded it in my gen 4 21. I added a full support KKM barrel and a heavier spring, 22 lb I believe. I matched the loads sold by Underwood quite easily and all were reliable and accurate. I will download slightly any future loads due to recoil being manageable but unpleasant. The 255 hard cast at about 1000fps would be perfect woods carry I think.

Why would you do that to your wrists?

45 Super, with the right bullets and a sufficiently accurate pistol, can be an effective Whitetail cartridge at closer range (ie slug range or closer).

A railed lw commander makes a nice woods gun

I would not hesitate to shoot a deer at 100 yards with my Loaded. It groups my 255s really well.

Shot and tested the Underwood hardcast and their version of the Lehigh heavy solids from my HK USP 45 and my HK 45C.  Accurate, reliable and not what I consider exceptionally punishing in terms of recoil, however both rounds slow my shot to shot recovery and splits a lot, as you would expect.  I am pretty confident either would punch a bear skull, but my current belief is so would their 9mm version of the hard cast and the Lehigh stuff which I can shoot just as accurately with a lot more rounds on target in the same time window.  Last trip to the Northern Rockies I went with the 9mm version in my off road and hiking sidearm (G17).

My preference is the 460 Rowland but the muzzle brake is making drawing it quickly a concern.  I have to run my 45 Super loads over a chrono to see how fast they are going.   My guns are a HK and a Glock 21.  Thus far I have loaded 185, 200 and 230 grain bullets.  

If I did not already have a 10mm, I would definitely go the 45 Super route, provided my 45 was setup to use it.  

@ 03RN  as usual we are in agreement and Your reloads closely replicate the fantastic 255gr Hard Cast Keith's @ 935fps I still run in my 4" SA Operator... They are ridiculous accurate both my 97B and Operator and cycle wonderfully. Both are great for woods carry with this load anywhere in the south.

OP, I did the .45Super game and it's a wonderful "caliber" for woods and/or streets even. I converted my 5" SA 1911 with a 23lb recoil spring from Wolff and corresponding firing pin spring, flat bottom firing pin stop, recoil buffer later on due to noticing some slight frame battering; and most importantly upgraded to the +10% magazine springs from Wolff so the magazine could keep up with the accelerated slide velocity a 255gr pill running @ 1,100 fps will produce.

This combo of parts allowed for flawless use of both Underwood's and Buffalo Bore's .45 Super Hard Cast Keith loads and also their 255gr .45acp+P loadings at 935fps...  Thinking back I ran my .45Super for almost 5 years and cannot remember one single time even one malfunction after initial .45Super designation & set-up... It was a great rig set-up and a great pairing of caliber loadings that offered 10+1 capacity and quick reloads with a McCormick "rocket-wire" magazine springs. I preferred Wilson's 47D's upgraded with the Wolff extra power springs and upgraded followers for concealment carry and back pocket spare mags for comfort.

A Cz-97 would be quite a good option too. Had it to do over and contemplating the .45Super idea I would have upgraded the Cz-97B for the .45Super conversion due to both it's DA/SA trigger and cocked/locked carry option plus her hammer down (quarter cock) carry option; 10+1 flush mag capacity, and lastly the 97 offers wonderfully dampened recoil due to being a double stack frame, full length dust cover, and uber low bore axis barrel that rides low in the slide and close in-line to the frame rails... All the while sharing the same slim grip characteristics as the 1911 offeres due to CZ's ingenious frame and super-thin aluminum grip design... Both the Cz-97B and SA 5" barreled 1911 would be superb choices for the .45Super caliber.

I have since gotten into 3" barreled vintage Smith's in both .44Special (that can be loaded as hot or soft as wanted), and also .44Magnums with Heavy for Caliber 305gr loads for woods carry the last 5 years which are also a Superb choice.

For your neck of the woods and a semi-auto the 460 Rowland would be my choice... For a Revo the .44Magnum with 300gr Hard Cast Keith's is my choice.

To answer your question I think heavy .45Super's are superior to anything 10mm offers...

This is exactly what I did to convert my Kimber Target to 45 Super except I used 26 lb. recoil spring and Barsto 6" barrel with matching bushing.  I'm using 7 round Metalform SS mags as 8 round CMC Power mags are hard to seat properly when loaded with 8 rounds and slide is closed.
I'm using Starline 45 Super brass to load 255 gr (actually 252gr) FP hard cast bullet @ +/- 1,060 fps or Remington 45+P nickel brass to load same bullet @ +/- 970 fps.  Both loads are very accurate out to 50 yards and hits pretty hard.  The recoil from +P load is not much more than Hornady factory 230gr +P load but the 45 Super load recoils more...about same recoil as my 45 Colt load of 280gr WFN @ 1,080 fps.
I shot a 120 lb. boar hog a while back with the 45 Super load and it completely penetrated the neck of the boar while going through the spine/neck bone.  Later I placed the hog on the side and shot the same load through the shoulder and it completely penetrated both shoulder bones and exited out the bottom.      

@yamahawarrior89

Just another interesting data point

Thanks for the tag. Very interesting indeed.

@yobo

How far away was the hog when you shot it through both shoulder blades? I shot a whitetail doe at 50 yards with a 255gr SWC (estimated speed at that distance is 880fps). It went through both the shoulder socket in the front and hit the opposite front leg and shattered the bone but didn't exit. I was rather disappointed since they are known for extreme penetration.

How much penetration do you want from a semi-auto handgun, exactly?

I just wanted a pass through. I guess I read into the exaggerations too much. I know this is the internet but people always said "this bullet will go through a horse long ways", or even the gel test going through 30+ inches of penetration. I know I hit the leg bones on both sides but I just find it Interesting.

My load was a 255gr SWC @ 940fps, a duplicate of the standard 45 colt load.

Just one anecdote, doesn't mean it will do the same thing the next time.

It was the same hog that I shot through the neck.  I just placed it on the side and I shot it from about 2 feet from muzzle because it was first game I shot with the 45 Super load and I wanted to see if it would penetrate both shoulders.

How far did she run?

100 yards, she ran out of my view but that is the shortest distance to where she ended up. I'm surprised she ran that far with a blown out leg and messed up shoulder.

If you want a pass through w/ a pistol bullet, try not shooting them through the shoulder into the leg.  

Haha I guess so

I think so, especially if you handload.   I used to run it out of a Gen4 Glock 21 with a KKM 4 port compensated barrel.  I such a setup the 45 Super will match 460 Rowland ballistics and I ran anywhere from a 185gr @1600 fps, to a 250gr @ 1350 fps to a 300gr hardcast at 1150 fps (the barrel was 5" long).   Very stout but not unmanageable.   Very powerful and the same setup made shooting .45 ACP feel like a 380.

Around 2003 or so I bought a used kimber tle.45 that had been converted to shoot .45 super by ace custom out of texas. Came with their work sheet. Paid $600 out the door. It was a great gun. I shot about 80 rounds of super through it and probably 1000 rounds of .45 auto. I needed money bad about a year later, traded to my buddy and told him I would buy it back and don’t sell it. He sold it. To this day I still bring it up to him at least a few times a year. It is the only gun I wish I could get back. It was truly a one of a kind. All black and Beautiful diamond jeweling on the hood. Very accurate. As for .45 super, back then I was kinda in the dark as to what it was. Now I would love to have one for a woods gun. I still have about 20 rounds of ammo left from 2003-2004 era.

I have shot 45 Super out of my FNX and FNP, both with recoil spring upgrades, and a mildly modified RIA 1911. Carbine loads through a hi-point carbine.

I load my own, and this is what i've gained:
185 grain bullets at 1400 FPS out of a 5.5" barrel. 16" barrel at around 1750 fps.
260 grain bullets at 1050 FPS out of a 5.5" barrel  16" barrel around 1300 FPS.
230 grain bullets at 1200 FPS out of a 5.5" barrel.  16" barrel around 1500 FPS.

Is it worth it?
Yes.
Does it take time to really figure out if your pistols will feed it, and what loads feed the best? Yes.

I haven't put rounds on human yet, but i know what it does to other media; water jugs and soaked phone books.

There is an significant difference between Super and even +P 45 ACP. There is an ENORMOUS difference between a +p+ 9mm and a 45 Super.

Obviously, the downsides;
It isn't for everyone. Probably half the folks who have shot the 45 Super do not like the recoil. Fair enough.
It's expensive unless you roll your own, and even then it's more expensive than standard 45.
it accelerates pistol wear and tear.

For bear? 255 grains at 1100 FPS?  I don't see any problem with that.


For bear you want penetration; heavy generally penetrates better. heaviest i've seen for 10MM is.....230 grain?

I've fired a box of it thru a USP45.  Recoil was painful; my wrists started tingling, which has never happened before.  I would not want to shoot it from a polymer-framed pistol again.  Best used in a metal-framed pistol.

If you compare Buffalo Bore or Underwood 10mm and 45 Super, IIRC at the same bullet weight they have the same velocity.  So 45 Super merely has a larger frontal area than 10mm, at the expense of sectional density (again, if comparing same bullet weight).

Maybe "Generally", but short fat bullets don't penetrate well even if they are heavy.  You need sectional density...ie,some shank on that bullet.

My personal experience with 45 ACP bullets on big hogs is less than dismal.  When you end up with no expansion and no penetration, the results are not good.

Here's two recovered 230gr 45 ACP bullets from a small 150 pound hog.  Penetration of both was about 4 inches.  I'm sure this load/bullet looks great in a gel block with perfect penetration and expansion.  Against a real animal, it's a bit different.

Maybe if they were going Super speeds, the results would have been better, or not.

Tony

Where you going to find .45 Super ammo, even back when availability was 'normal'/pre-panic?

.45 Super makes the 10mm's availability look like .22 rimfire by comparison (again, in normal times).

The 10mm's rep as a 'bear-stopper' is established, which is why 10mm pistols dominate as the handgun to carry in AK's Grizz & Moose country.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/10/alaskans-stop-grizzly-bear-charge-with-glock-10mm-on-elmendorf-richardson/#axzz6GWKT1vcM

You can walk into any place in AK that carries ammo and find 10mm, and typically the full-power stuff.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JZJVF5PWtq8

The  .45 Super? ... ... ah, not so much. Like hens-teeth.

Against a big hog, I would take the 180gr Nosler Partition fired from a 357 Auto Mag over the short fat 230gr on right, even if it were fired from a 45 WinMag.  That 180 is going to WAY out penetrate the 230 on big bone and muscle.

Tony

I've played with 45 Super and decided it wasn't worth it. Powerful stuff no doubt. But I prefer 10mm with very similar ballistics and it seems to have less recoil and guns handle it better. There's a reason you don't see any factory 45 Super guns out there. Of course a HK Mk23 is pretty close, ha. I'm not a big Glock guy, but my Glock 20 is sweet. Also you can find 10mm at local stores usually. 45 Super is special order only. 10mm will offer better penetration compared to 45 Super generally speaking.

Yes, due to the 10mm's better sectional density.

Unfortunately, most of that 10mm at local stores is gonna be 40SW-levels of velocity.  "Real" 10mm tends to be special-order only from Buffalo Bore or Underwood Ammo.

Not necessarily. Depends on where you shop, I guess.  Back before the panic-craziness, the regional Cabelas had both BB and UW 10mm on the shelves.

The AK stores routinely stocked (pre-panic) DT, BB, UW, and that one hot Federal 180gn 'hunting' load with the premium soft-point bullet (forget the name).

A jhp from a 10mm would do the same thing. Pick the right bullet for the job.
Attached File

You would think so, and normally you would be correct, but bullet construction is important as well.

Back in 1993 a group of us shot a bunch of hogs with handguns in South Texas.....all about 250-300 pounders....and these hogs were well armored.

The 170gr HP's from my 41 Jurras Auto Mag flattened out like lead nickels.  Penetration sucked.
The 265gr Speer HP's from my 45 WinMag Wildey didn't fare much better.  Dismal penetration on those as well.
But a factory 240gr HP from Master Load, fired from my 45 WinMag LAR Grizzly, blew completely through with multiple shots with no signs of slowing down.  Penetration was phenomenal.  All of the above were hollow points.

I'm not repeating what I have overheard here on the internet.  I've shot a LOT of hogs with a LOT of hand guns dating back to 1980.  

Tony Rumore
Tromix


 

You've got some neat stuff! I've never heard of that one, seems similar to but shorter than the .358 Yeti.

A flat bottom firing pin stop, increased strength hammer spring and recoil spring and most important a barrel mounted muzzle compensator will calm down a 1911 recoil to reasonable levels. 45 super brass will protect from possibly blowing out the case. Basically all things they did to create the 460 Rowland. You can actually think of the 45 super as a downloaded 460 Rowland.
The sweet spot is when 45 ACP just kind of falls out of the ejection port and 45 super rounds kick out maybe 4-8 feet away.
Of course handloading is almost a requirement.

I post earlier on this, but basically if you want to use .45 and buy more powerful ammo, 45 Super is a good option.  It shines if you handload, I've ran anywhere from 185gr JHP to 300gr hardcast and no, a 10mm will not out penetrate the heavier .45's, but again the catch is that such loads aren't something you can purchase, you have to handload them.  It will mirror a 460 Rowland but you will need to run a compensated barrel in order for it to work properly.  It's more powerful than 10mm for certain, but that said, if you don't handload and have to buy your ammo and you want more power, 10mm might be the better option here.

Tony is one of the few people here that I really to trust his experiences.

That being said OP,

I have shot a few K 45super and 450SMC. All of my carry 45acp guns are set up for 45 super now. I used to love the energy of the 10mm but hated the firearm options. Now with 45 super being an option as well as 460Rowland (for those with good wrists) I no longer have a want for 10mm. I have made the mistake of trying 45S in a XDS. I would not recommend it. Ever. I like recoil. However I was concerned with the gun coming apart and nerve damage in the palm of my hand.

A solid 1911 or usp can handle 45 super pretty easily.

For a 1911 a squared bottom firing pin stop and an 18lb spring do well. The USP can handle it right out of the box.

My friend managed to hill his HK USP Elite .45 firing .45 super; fired like 1500 of them and the frame cracked.

I love oddball high performance cartridges, but .45 super is not a great cartridge:

-No factory firearm for .45 Super

-More recoil and less capacity then 10mm

-Almost all of the .45 ACP JHP's are designed for 800-900fps, not 1100fps.

-For hardcast lead, regular .45 ACP +p penetrates plenty:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?37222-Underwood-45-ACP-and-45-Super-Hard-Cast-in-Clear-Ballistics-Gel

The exception would be in a Ruger Redhawk, which is a tank of a gun rated for .45 LC +P (.44 magnum but .45.) .45 super would be cool here because you could just load regular cheap .45 ACP once fired brass to .45 super pressure, as a cheaper magnum load then buying Starline .45 LC brass.

Thought you were supposed to use cut down .308 brass for .45 Super due to the higher pressures, rather than .45 ACP brass?

Dunno about cut-down 308 brass, but I do know you're not supposed to use 45 ACP brass to roll 45 Super cartridges.  My understanding is that 45 Super brass is thicker at the back webbing around the primer.

If you plan on pushing 460 rowland territories then yes you should use stronger brass. If you plan on going to 45acp +p or a little higher than regular 45 acp brass is fine. I do prefer small primer (more brass in the case head) but I'm not sure it matters.

Not all 45 super is the same, just like not all 10mm is the same.