As title says, where the hell are they? Can't remember the last time I saw some at a gun show or LGS. Nor do I see them from the walk-around sellers at gun shows. I've always wanted a .380acp PPK/S in blued but never have found the money and opportunity meeting. I believe I would jump at a .22 version though.

I know there's probably better .380acp options, not that I really even want a .380 since I have a Sig P-938. But ho-lee-shit, how can there not be at least some opportunities for an all-time classic?

Is this the case all across America?

I hear ya, I HAD a PPK/S many years ago but sold it.  It was before the 380 Ammo became decent so I sold it for a 9mm.  I miss it now, it was a very sturdy feeling pistol, great for ccw, I wish I never sold it.

The values of real Walther/Manurhin made PP series pistols went way up is what happened.

You can thank GunPorker and similar online auction sites for evaporating the existing supply of the older, well made, PP series pistols.

After posting I saw one in the EE for almost $800. WTF?    

Now that you mention it....I haven't seen one in awhile. I damn near bought one about 5-6 years ago and didn't for whatever reason. They were on display in many LGS but now it's probably been several years since I've seen one. Maybe I'm just not seeing them but I concur, they've seem to have been disappeared. I'd still like to get one at some point, I mean Fox Mulder carried one for backup gun....that counts for something

PSA was selling the .22 model for something like $250 during one of their sales during the summer.they did not last long and I missed out. I see one or two every couple of months at the local gun show but they are selling for $450ish which seems more then I want to pay for one when I remember them going for $250 just a few months ago.

I dont really look for the 380 model.

The Smith and Wesson models sucked.  The originals were kind of ammo sensitive

They are heavy for concealed carry, compared to other guns on the market

Plus they are stupid expensive now.

I got rid of mine for same reasons that MBUZICHOMA commented... heavy, way too much recoil (blow back) for a 380 for what I considered practical use...mine wasn't 100 percent with anything but ball ammo... I tried a TPH in .22lr, and it bit me in the web of my hand every time I shot it....

now if I had one engraved... Fat Herman, Happy Birthday, Love Adolph... well that would be different

Like most of the Walther catalog they were never that common in the first place.  They sold ok over the years but were never a big mover.  Gunbroker has several if you're so inclined.

I have a post recall Smith and it works fine.

I have three. A .32 ACP PP, a .22LR PPK, and a .380 PPK. All Manurhin made, Walther marked guns. They are collector pieces these days.

Both the PPK/s and the Sig P230 cut my hand to shreds.  You should shoot one first before you commit.  Both are sexy and well made guns, but I just can't shoot them.

Also have a P230.... great little gun. And a Colt Pocket Pony.

The PPK/S 380 pistols still turn up around here in the $500 range. I'm not a fan of the 380, but the 32s and the old 22s are great to shoot.

7.65 Browning (32 ACP) is the caliber the PP was initially designed around and is still the way to go for small, center fire, blow back pistols.

My 1937 PP...

I've got a PPKS 380, it's certainly well made but, ammo sensitive, heavy and chews the shit out'a my hand...
sits in the safe

According to this podcast they are re-doing their production under new management in the US, so they'll be out on the market "soon".

I just bought a PPK/S in 22.

Attached File

I just bought one in 22lr. $249.99 with a brick of 500 rounds at the LGS.

Pre-Black Friday sale. Was supposed to be on sale for three days, sold out of them the first day.

Were they originally designed in .32 or .380?  Which of those two do you think is a better "shooter"?

A friend had one years ago in .380 and I thought that little SOB had some sharp recoil.  Caught me off guard as I had never shot a blowback gun before.  I had just been shooting .44 Mag too with no ill effect but damn if that little mouse gun wasn't pinching the web of my hand.

ETA:  Haha, kept reading and was answered above.  Makes sense that they were designed as .32s originally.

Well, damn if you don't just drag out the 400lb cheerleader for all to see............  

I, too, have been dismayed at how they have literally disappeared from the market.  I was fortunate enough to pick up a 1953 PP in 7.65 Browning.  It's one of my favorite carry guns.

I lightly dressed the rear of the slide and the bottom of the cocking serrations which cured any cutting for me.  What a lot of folks call "hammer bite" is misdiagnosed slide cutting.

I did the same to my P230 and it worked as well.

Damn Walther for not making this gun to this day.

The PP is a pussycat in .32 Auto. The PPK in .380 has a little bit of bite with its bark but it isn't anything bad. A Ruger LCP is rough. The Walther is like a cross between a G42 and G43 if that. Now the .22LR PPK is a dream to shoot. Legit Manurhin made Walther stamped gun. Came into the US before 1968. It is a family heirloom and has legitimate connections to the CIA.

My Uncle Mario worked for the CIA and was recruited as to organize Brigada 2506 and the Bay of Pigs. After the shit storm and while in continuing employment, the company told him to go buy a gun and they'll repay him. He did and bought the PPK .22LR.

CIA repaid him, he carried during his career.

Nothing fancy, and we have no papers to prove it. But we are never selling it anyways.

I want one, an yes it's just because Bond.

I have only ever come across .22lr for sale, which I'm not interested in.  Would like .32acp, would take a .380.  One of the things I haven't been able to figure out yet (other than the seemingly complicated question of who actually made the various versions and which are 'good') is what the difference in the /s is.

Pre WWII, all German made. After WWII, Walther was barred from making guns. So an agreement was set up with Manurhin of France. Manurhin mad the guns under license. Walther sold them and so did Manurhin. Interarms made a stainless model in the US. It sucked. S&W made them too. They sucked.

Here's my West German marked Walther PPK .380





Made in 1968 and brought in right before the '68 GCA.

I have a ppk/s. It’s a good shooter. It also leaves bloody streaks across the top of my thumb when I shoot it. I don’t shoot it much.

I also have a pre '68 GCA .22LR PPK and it is a gem of a gun.

OK, here is the rundown as best as I can remember...

All WW2 and earlier PP series were built by Walther in Zella-Mehlis, in what became East Germany after the war.
After the war Germany was not allowed to manufacture arms, so post war production up through some time in the 70s was farmed out to Manurhin in France.  Manurhin produced PP series pistols under their own name, and also sent unfinished parts to Walther in Germany where they were then rollmarked, heat treated and finishes were applied and assembled in their new factory in Ulm.

Walther started making PP pistols fully on their own again around 1978.

Now it gets more complicated, because of the new firearms laws in America, the PPK could not be imported.  So, Walther licensed it's  US importer Interarms to manufacture pistols in the US to get around this.  The US Interarms made pistols were manufactured by Ranger Manufacturing.  They made the only PP series pistols to that time to be made from stainless steel.

So then Interarms folds after the death of it's founder.  PP production in the US stops. and no new ones are sold for some time, until Walther does a deal with Smith & Wesson to be their US Importer, and Smith gets a license to build the PPK/PPKs in the US.  Smith decides to "improve" the pistol by adding a long, and ugly, tang to help lessen the slide bite associated with the PP series pistols.  Most S&W guns are in 380, very few 32s having been produced.   The S&W guns have lots of problems, and were recalled at least once.

Walther's agreement with S&W expires, and Walther sets up their own US branch so they now import the German made pistols on their own.  Also by now Walther becomes owned by Umarex, and under their corporate umbrella.  Several newer pistols that were designed and built by Umarex are branded as Walthers and sold here, much to the dismay of traditional Walther enthusiasts.  Among these are the P22, CCP, PK380 and the current PPKs .22.   These are the most trouble prone pistols in the current lineup, all are made not in Ulm, but in Arnsberg in Germany.

Walther USA decides to bring back the PPK and a many year gestation period gets underway, with many false release dates.  Now it seems this version of the PPK will finally be coming to market.  The slides will be made in Germany, and the frames will be made here at Walther's plant in Ft. Smith, Arkansas.  All Ft. Smith pistols will be in 380.

Whew..

OK, here is how most collectors rate the various PP series gun for quality, from best to worst...

1. The early Zella-Mehlis guns, except late WW2 production.  Old world, hand finished by craftsman works of art.

2. French PP series made and marketed by Manurhin under their own name.  Very high quality, and better external finish than any post war Walther made Pistol.

3.Walther made/finished pistols from the Manurhin era and the ones later made by Walther in Ulm.

4. Interarms Ranger manufactured pistols.  If you want stainless, these are the ones to get.

5. The Smith & Wesson made pistols.  If you get one that works, fine, if not, good luck.

6. The Umarex PPKs .22s.  Pot metal slides, can be finicky depending on brand of ammo, as with the Smith & Walthers, if you get one that works, count yourself among the lucky ones.

The Ft. Smith guns are still an unknown.

Bullshit.  Pure and simple.

I own a pre-war PP and a WWII production PPK (both in 7.65 of course)

I picked up a Smith&Walther stainless PPK in 7.65 as a shooter, cheap, from a guy who was a 007 fanatic. Mine runs 100%. I have never had a problem with it. I replaced the grips with a nice set of wood that I hand fit so they look seamless. I enjoy shooting this gun as the other two have been retired to safe royalty status.

The design itself is a little too heavy and too complicated compared to today's pocket pistol offerings but I do like to take mine out to the range and play James Bond once in a while then go home and enjoy a Vodka Martini (shaken, not stirred) and wait for my super-model/international spy of a Wife to get home so I can pounce!

I bought a S&W PP a number of years ago. Holy hell that giant beavertail beat the crap out of the first joint of my thumb! Sold it off pretty quick.

Have never shot a ppk or ppk/s.

German Ulm/Do made pp22, pp32, pp380, varied so much not even understandable when I shot them function wise.

22 & 32 work perfect, easy to shoot, accurate beyond being called a liar, but heavy and tiny tiny sights.  With a perfect SA trigger pull and a non existent reset feel.

380 exactly the same but mis fed, mis ejected, and dropped its magazines while shooting.  Walther America and I wasted the cost of the gun on shipping, free mags, catches, small parts, never fixed it.  Finally gave up and junked it selling to a collector with disclosure because it had been featured in a magazine.  That’s all it was good for.  Being photographed.  Something in frame just not cut right.  This is when a new one was approaching $1600 with the Mark sky high.

I enjoy the small calibers, but would never buy an original again with out shooting first.  And the triggers just aren’t appropriate for CCW.

No clue what the supposedly Walther made ones are like today.  I smell Umarex in there somewhere based on the price.  The price says non steel, non aluminum parts?????

Don't forget the PPK/S was originally a Walther/Manurhin gun made to be legal to import into the US after the '68 GCA passed. Legit PPKs dried up since they were legal for import. Hence why Interarms got in on the deal.

I have a S&W PPK in 380.  It had one ejection failure in the first 50 rounds then no problems since.  Not sure how many rounds I have through it but probably several thousand.  The feed ramps were the main issue with the S&W guns from what I understand.  The PPK is an older design that works best with ammo that it was designed to fire.  Some modern hollow point stuff has feeding problems if the front of the bullets are too sharp and squared off.  The rounder ones tend to work fine.
That said, I had another one before I got this one that did have some issues.  They polished the feed ramps for me and it got a lot better but there was still something else that was wrong so they gave me the one I have now as a replacement.  So, the S&W models could be a mixed bag.  If you get one that is picky you may want to have the ramps cleaned up and polished.
I wish I had picked one up in 32 back then too but I didn't.
The German ones are probably better but harder to find and more $$.
I have no experience with the Interarms version though I remember seeing mixed reviews of those back when I was shopping around for mine.

I liked shooting my Sauer and Sohn 38h much better then the PPK/S a friend had. Much better designed gun IMHO. And my web got shredded after just a couple mags.

Mauser HSc rocks too.

Except for the safety recall,  The light firing pin strike problem and the lack of interchangeability with original PPK/s parts.(When the parts dry up you will have a paperweight)

It Smith and Wesson had done it right and made an exact clone I would agree with you.

The only thing I liked was the extended tang to get rid of the hammer bite

Other guns on the market included the Makarov and CZ82, which cost far less and filled the demand for such guns.

I have had good luck with the MKE made PP pistols. I have three, two in .380 and one in .32. They all run as well as my Manurhin made model, the only difference is the MKE versions have the typical European style grip heel mag release instead of the push button on the Manurhin/Walther. The MKE versions appear on Gunbroker from time to time and are usually half the price for the Manurhin/Walther guns.
Gary

Maybe this will help?  
Lucky Gunner Walther Review

My dad has an Interarms-era PPK/s.  Never really liked to run once dirty, and the DA was atrocious, but it is still an awesome little gun (like that Range Rover that is a total crap-box but I love them anyway).

So did Elvis.

You are 100% correct.

IN .32, they are awesome.  In .380....not so much.

Back in the early 90's I bought a brand new Walther PPKS because I thought it was a cool design. But, after a year I got rid of it just because the .380 caliber is so useless and ineffective. The double action trigger on it was also horrendously long and heavy. The good thing about it was that it was accurate for a short barrel pistol because the barrel, like the H&K P7M13 pistols, is a fixed barrel. It would be a decent pistol if it was chambered in at least 9mm.

9mm is too hot for the typical small blow back designs, like the PP series.  9mm Makarov is really the upper limit for blow backs.
To get 9x19 to work in a blow back would require a recoil spring that would be too stout for all but pro wrestlers to be able to retract the slide, if you wanted to keep the slide a reasonable size, or you would end up with a Highpoint like brick of a slide to have enough mass to handle the higher pressures of the 9x19.

As has been mentioned several times here, the sweet spot for blow backs is 32 acp.

Good luck easily finding drop-in replacement parts for any PP,PPK,PPK/S, etc. So many actual manufactures and so many slight and not so slight variations over the past 90 years.

HK and Hi-Point made commercial available blowback 9mm pistols.

True. They did compensate with a heavy slide to delay and let the pressure drop.

There was also this one. Old but they needed a very heavy spring.

Dreyse 1910

The P7 was delayed-blowback though which is why it wasn't god awful huge like a Hi-Point and didn't have a ton of recoil.