Just for fun so don't get you panties in a bunch.  357 Magnum SUCK!

I own two 357 Magnums, a S&W 627 and Ruger Blackhawk Convertible and I can't tell you how horribly boring I find any revolver in 357 Magnum.  I never shoot my Blackhawk anymore and on the rare occasions I do its with 38 Special.  My 627 gets shot a fair amount but its all with 38 Short Colt runnin' and gun'in USPSA matches.

I carry a 442 in 38 Special.  357 Mag is nearly pointless in CCW pocket revolvers, recoil, muzzle blast etc.

I hunt with my S&W 610 and am actively looking for a deal on a S&W 629 (might even trade the Blackhawk to fund it).  The 357 Mag is fine hunting cartridge ballistically speaking but it rings my ears so badly. I can hunt with my 610 that deliver similar muzzle energy and do so without my ears ringing the rest of the day.

It's completely useless in competition since I can run 38 Short Colt (or 9mm or 38 Super) in USPSA and in IDPA it is either 38 Special (stock) or 45 ACP (enhanced) to dominate the two sub-divisions.  357 Mag is a pain on moonclips and speed-loaders are only marginally better.

I just can't find a use for 357 Mag.  It's boring and useless and has no character but so ubiquitous it's nauseating.  There are so many other more interesting cartridges to chamber a revolver in and yet 80% of what you find at the gun store in double action revolver is 38/357.

I long for a good Webley VI with an un-shaved cylinder.  An old S&W double action in 38 S&W (not 38 Special).  A French MAS 1873 would be more fun than a 357 Mag.

Am I not right?

ETA::Didn't realize this wasn't GD.

OP get shot with a 9mm and .357 in each leg  at the same place,,, and tell us which one hurts more

Well maybe don't go full GD on the thread but feel free to tell me I am wrong.  Be specific.  I don't mind correcting you.  




That is part of my point.  I couldn't tell the difference.  With bullets in 110-148 grain range the 9mm will produce similar ballistics in a shorter case that used less powder.  357 Mag is too long for most of application and bullets.

Honestly I agree with you! While I do not use my revolvers at gamer level ( shoot an old school 6 shot smith k frame with speedloader for icore , my bullseye competition guns are a 6" k-22 and k-38 ) for me as well magnums are simply not useful. I actually gave my last box of magnum ammo away to a friend, and currently do not own a magnum. 38 special has all the power and accuracy needed for competition and the recoil and blast of magnums in carry guns again for me is not worth the trade off in increased performance which is not fully realized in short barrels. Another consideration not mentioned in short guns is it usually results in large amounts of unburnt powder which can foul the cylinder under the extractor and tie up the gun.
To the OP I highly recommend you wear hearing protection while hunting! Electronic muffs help save hearing and can make you aware of approaching game- win win

They're great for messing with people at the range. Five .38 rounds and one .357 round at the end. Really wakes people up.

its fun in a  Coonan

I fired 3 minimum load wadcutters then offered revolver to brother to shoot with 3 max load .357 in Dan Wesson.

He thought the gun blew up in his hand.

I have more confidence with my L frame than any other handgun as far as hitting and stopping a threat.
I can hit a soccer ball at 50 yards double action without hardly trying with full power .357.
More likely to hit it at 100 than any other handgun.
I don't live where there are bears or I'd consider .454 with short barrel.

Yeah, because you can TOTALLY load a 125gr at 1600 fps, or a 158 at 1400 in 9.

Nick

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

When I shot ISPC in the early 90s never down loaded my guns.  Never into the gamesmanship as I used it as training.  Shot full 125 gr JHP loads at 1450 fps out of my 4" and 3" K frames (66, 13, 65s) or my two Coonan Model Bs.  Granted I did down load my .41 Mags (58/657s) to 210gr/1150 fps.  Only have one .357 today and thats my 10" TC Contender.  Always on the look out for another 3" 13/65.


CD

But none of the big three are loading 357 mag any where near that hot.   Factory 357 mag and 9mm +P for similar bullets weights are indistinguishable in their results in social applications.  

I am a gamer.   160gr round noise in 38 Short Colt cases going 850 fps.  I even played with 45 GAP in my 625.

It does. Only useful contribution was to further lengthen the straight wall pistol cases that helped spawn and develop the 44 Magnum and 454 Casull cartridges.  Any handgun worth a shit starts with a "4."

You're not right.  I don't see a point to it in snubby revolvers, but in a good 4 - 6"+ gun you can get good velocities and good penetration with the right bullets.   I don't see much of a point to it for people, but for people behind barriers, or for wild game it has a good niche.   On the other hand I'd carry one of my 44s for that instead of my 357.  

I used to shoot IDPA with some guys who were into gaming on the ragged edge of the rules.   I always wanted to load up some ammo for my Anaconda w/ max loads of slow burning powder and light bullets.  It would be interesting to see how big a fireball and concussion I could get, and if I could blow the pasties off the targets at close range. 

Hunting is the only place I want to use it.  I prefer .38's, but I'm a total recoil wuss and will get a bad flinch from one cylinder of +p .38's in my Airweight.

I think it would be good in a lever action or even one of those ruger bolt guns.  Again, for hunting.  Although in a lever gun it makes a bit more sense for self defense.  

However, I do remember not crazy long ago, dudes preferred to use something bigger than 9 for serious purposes and .357 was cited as on option.  Hence the SEALs that carried a 686 for certain missions.

While it is perfectly acceptable for "social engagements" I find the lack of capacity to be it's biggest drawback in that arena.

In a hunting role it is on the low side of the energy + caliber scale and I much prefer my 44mags. Also the bark of a 357 is pretty sharp and will make your head ring if you happen to touch one off without your ears in place.

....however from a gaming perspective (such as longer range silhouette shooting) a fast moving .357 out of an 8 and change barreled revolver will give you enough knock down power without the recoil of the 44mag.

All in all, I agree with you. Since I got my first 44 mag, my .357s spend all of their time in the safe.

You know, it is more or less sacrilegious, but yeah I'm with you.  I no longer own any .357 magnums.  It just doesn't do anything really well. Where it excels is for police or for folks who want to own just one defensive handgun.   For that use case it's great.   For enthusiasts it is just not that interesting.

I was typically a blaster shooter - mag dumps all the time.

One fine summer day 3 friends decided to take a motorcycle trip up to the range in the mountains. It was a hot day - mid week, so the place was essentially deserted.

Thanks to some late season rain and poor planing by whoever bulldozed the range water had become diverted so the area between the firing line and targets was a lazy stream. We found a spot with a huge rock shelf at the perfect height and claimed the spot. Took off our shoes and sat on the rock with our feet in the stream. In a backpack we had brought a Ruger Blackhawk 357 and a Mark II target bull barrel 22LR. Also had a brick of 22 ammo and 150 357mag. Prior visitors had hung empty 12ga hulls from strings in a little tree in the target area 75 - 100 yrds. Other targets remained such that it truly was a target rich environment.

We sat there bitching about school, work and life in general. Pick a target, fire one shot pass the gun...repeat. The canyon broke any wind and the breeze was ever so slight the 22 has about 80% on those hulls. Spent about 4 hrs like that used up the 357 ammo but still had about 300 22LR left over. Was one of the best range days ever. Lazy shooting. No chasing brass all over

Now that I have my own private range I shoot much less . I now enjoy taking my time making each shot count with my bolt guns. Also 200yrd and up target shooting with pistols. My Desert Eagle 44mag is such a pleasure taking down targets at 200 with single shots... Life is good. Enjoy ALL of it.

That's your choice and reasoning then you don't need us to sell you on the Magnum round.  But its better to have and not need then need and not have, power in this case.  Another plus on the .357 Mag is avail. of ammo and cases.  In a SHTF case you have more ammo choices.


CD

I had originally bought my Blackhawk for hunting.  I carried it a few years but have never taken a deer with it.  After that bad experience shooting it without ear protect I quit hunting with it.  I found full house 10mm Auto loads from my S&W 610 where far more tolerable on un-protected ears when hunting.



Yes I should wear ears hunting but I don't think I could tolorate amplified muffs all day hunting and the in the ear amplified protection is a bit more than I want to spend.  For now I try to use firearms that don't ring my ears like 357 Mag.

I picked up a 44 Mag lever gun about three years ago and I am looking for a  deal on a 629 to go with it.  I think that might be the perfect hunting combo.

But if I am going for power there are so many more revolver cartridges that are better choices.  44 Mag being a prime example but then you have 454 Casull, 460 S&W and then .475 rounds ( 480 Ruger & 475 Linebaugh) and even 500 S&Wif you really want horse power in a revolver.  357 Mag has to work really hard for moderate horse power and you end up with long skinning cartridges that don't like moonclips, and moonclips rule! 

Boring is the last thing in the world that I would consider .357mag to be. My favorite gun to shoot at the range is my S&W 19-2. There is something about the thump of the target grips hitting you in the hand. Busting clods on the 50yd berm with regularity using that perfect glass rod breaking 3lb SA trigger. Not to mention the drop dead sexy look of a classic S&W firearm. I mean, hell, this thing is only a month or two off from being the same age as I am. A lot better looking than me as well.

You totally missed my mark on power.  It was aimed at your use of a the .38 Short Colt in a .357 chambered gun.  Of course the bigger cartridges have more power.  Talking about one gun that has power puff to some horse power in a small portable package.  You have the .38 Short and Long Colts, Special and Magnum cartridges to use.


CD

That is a beautifully finished revolver!

...but I nearly fell asleep thinking about it.  What would you do with such a beauty?  Rub it with a diaper and lay it in the safe?  And it's a square grip, that is sort of like a fat bottom woman.  

I shoot it, and shoot it, and shoot it. That fat bottom on this girl is what make her so comfortable in the clinch. She does get rubbed with a old diaper between range trips. That's how you keep the sweet finish, by cleaning off the oils and salts that can mess her skin up. She coos at me when I rub her down. (Okay, that's in my head, but.....)

I have a Uberti EL Patron Peacemaker and Uberti Winchester 73 on order. Both of them in.357 mag. Sorry it's exciting to me!

So on one hand I agree with you.  That was part of the reason I originally bought the Blackhawk convertible in the first place.  The first center fire pistol I bought myself after finishing college.  I like the ability to shoot many different cartridges in one revolver.  But the more I have gotten into revolvers the more I realize I don't have anything I want to use 357 Magnum for. There is nothing I do with a revolver (CCW, competition, hunting etc) that would make the 357 Magnum my first/best choice for a cartridge for any of those applications.



No doubt exciting.  I hope to one day get a lever-gun and revolver in the same cartridge, but it wont be 357 Mag.  I currently have two lever-guns and so I need either a 629/M29 or a Taurus Judge/S&W Governor.  I am leaning hard toward getting a 5 inch 629 to pair with my little Rossi Model 92 rather than the Judge/Governor to pair with my Win 9410.

The .357 Magnum is the King of revolvers.  When we were all carrying wheelguns, it had more one shot stops than any other caliber.

Marshall & Sanow?  

One is for fighting. One is for fun.
20150312_104857 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
20140912_082322 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

I have all my .357's.  A stainless speed six, a 6" 586, a 4" 686, a fixed sight N frame 4" (can never remember the model number on that one - never shot it, just bought it and put it away).

The 586 is the 2nd most accurate revolver I've ever shot (only a buddy's old S&W M14 shot smaller groups for me).  The stainless speed six is my fishing gun (bobbed hammer and my reloaded snake shot).  The 686 is a great carry gun for those long ATV rides in the mountains.

When the small LE department I belonged to in the early 80's switched to department mandated guns they were S&W 686's with 4" barrels.  Issue ammo was either Federal or Speer 125 grain hollow points.  Why?  Because at that time the KY State Police had been carrying those loads for about 2 years.  In those 2 years there officers had been involved in 18 or 19 shooting incidents where the result had been incapacitation of the person they shot with one to two rounds (been a long time but I think only one guy had been shot twice, the rest were one shot stops) with no round exiting the body.  Our chief decided that's what he wanted.  A minimum number of rounds fired, no rounds passing through a perp to strike an innocent citizen behind them.

Noisy?  So.  Muzzle blast?  So.  Recoil?  So.  All guns have those.  It's the responsibility of the shooter to be proficient with the firearms they use/carry.

Would I carry mine today?  I don't usually.  I carry a .40 S&W P07 every day if I leave the property.  When I'm on the property I carry a 9MM CZ 85 when it's cold and the P07 when it's hot outside.

Oh, when you light off that 2&3/4" Speed Six with a 125 grain hollow point you have the attention of everyone on the line shooting their 9MM, .40 S&W and .45 acp handguns.  If the handguns were like dogs, they all cower down crawl up next to their owner's legs to hide.

Accuracy of most semi autos leaves much to be desired, compared to a good revolver.  I went through Browning, Glock, XDM and M&P semi-autos in 9MM, .357 SIG and .40 S&W before I got a CZ P07 and CZ P09 and finally had some semi-autos that would shoot with a good revolver on paper.

But that was a generation or more ago.  For duty the 9mm semi-auto double-stack striker-fired wonder-Tupperware has eclipse the 357 Mag wheel gun as the duty weapon to carry.  With arguably equivalent terminal effectiveness in social engagements and 2-3 times the capacity and less weight on the belt the revolver is dead as a duty gun.



I am very recoil tolerant.  357 Mag is a non-issue recoil wise for me until I get down to air weight snubbies.  Noise and muzzle blast on the other hand are something  I can do without when hunting.  I put comparable energy down range with my 357 mag (158gr XTP @ ~1400fps) and 10mm (200gr XTP @~1250fps) and yet the 10mm is far easier on my ears.


I still carry a 442 as my CCW and on the weekends working out at our deer hunting property I carry an old Model 10 heavy barrel.  I only step up when deer hunting and the last two years its been 10mm Auto in my S&W 610.

Yeah, it looks like he went there!

I've seen a few shootings that give me no reason to argue with the point.  I haven't personally carried one since the late eighties.  I do reminisce about those days when everybody carried a cool revolver.  Those were interesting days with all the S&W and Colt wheelguns in .38, .357, .41, .44 and .45.

I was trying to ignore it...  

Not sure where to start with this one, but I'll give it a go.

It seems like you've made up your mind and purposefully tilted the playing field to diminish the more positive attributes of the .357 magnum.

*The 9mm is nowhere close to full house loads in a .357 magnum. It just isn't. Yes, some of the defense loads for the .357 aren't too much faster than 9mm+P or +P+, but those particular .357 loads are really reduced loads to better cope with recoil. In addition to that, many of the loadings from the big 3 aren't really representative of the true power of a .357. Instead, they are reduced loadings in deference to the airweight/scandium guns and the smaller K frame guns. You can thank S&W for that nonsense. When you start comparing 9mm to .357 with hot loaded heavyweight hardcasts, the comparison crosses the line into ridiculousness. In good (safe) handloads or loads from the boutique ammo makers, the .357 nips at the heels or even surpasses some of the off the shelf offerings in .41 or .44 magnum. You can't compare apples with oranges however and that's what you were just doing and what I have just done.

*The guns chambered in .357 weigh less than those in .44. I've always said that the .44 magnum is the perfect pistol cartridge in desperate need of a platform to shoot it in. Sure, guns like the big Super Redhawk are wonderful hunting platforms, but are much too heavy as a secondary hunting weapon, a hiking gun, camping, chores or just bumming around gun. Even the shorter barreled guns are noticeably heavier than a GP-100 or 686. Even with a good pistol belt and a well designed holster, the larger framed guns are a drag to lug around. Pretty much the only way I'll carry them is with a chest harness and even that can be somewhat cumbersome if your primary reason for carrying is anything other than hunting. There's a weight threshold for me personally and that's around 40oz unloaded. And of course the weight difference grows even more with the .44 when loaded. Many people don't consider that when making comparisons. The new S&W 69 is an option, but holds one less round, can't shoot the heavy loads and is reportedly of questionably durability. With the .357, you can drop off even more weight if need be by carrying something like the SP-101. I've tried carrying a Glock 20 while backpacking and went back to the .357 because the weight of the Glock loaded exceeded what I was carrying with the GP-100 and from experience I consider the revolver more reliable.

So the .357 fills many niches, enough for it to be considered an all purpose handgun. It's the undisputed king of defense calibers. It works very well for hunting medium sized game at iron sight distances (50 yards and under) and if one chooses a proper load. It's light enough to be carried all day as a trail gun for protection against black bears and is powerful enough to give you a reasonable chance to succeed. Ammo is virtually everywhere in a multitude of different loads and is fairly economically priced. Even more so when you consider .38 special. It is very easy to handload, components are cheap and readily available and can be improved upon significantly in handloaded form. Boutique ammo is readily available in very powerful loads if one doesn't handload.

So you see, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

you need to handload to fully enjoy .357 magnum.

They don't have to have a purpose, they are just fun to shoot.













edited to add levergun

Dude, do you even lever action?

Me and my model 28-2 disagree with you. .357 will ruin a bad guys day. As a foolproof nightstand gun the aforementioned wheelgun fills that purpose perfectly.

Amen!!!! EOT

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out your post.  Is the the cartridge you find boring or just the available guns for which it is chambered?  The reason I ask is you long for a .455, .38 S&W and a 11 French Ord., all long obsolete and woefully underpowered.  Which is ok, if you are just interested in different guns and not a ballistic performance guy.  

I am a fan of the .357, but I really prefer the .44 Special and Magnum.  You are obviously a handloader.  You should know that the .44 Special and Magnum can do everything the 38 and 357 can do, and so much more.  It will also do anything 10mm can do, and more (with the exception of being chambered in a Glock.  I'm a fan of Glocks, but they are the very definition of ubiquitous and boring; and that is ok.    

If you like older, interesting guns, the pre-war .44 Specials from Smith and Wesson are quite nice, and you can also find the occasional Colt SAA in .44 special as well.  If you really like interesting vintage stuff, you need to get into the turn of the century auto pistol game.  There you will find awesomely unique designs, and really cool cartridges like 7.62 Mauser, .30 Luger, 9mm Bergman, and .38 Colt Automatic.  

Although not strictly related to your post, I will say there is more to handguns than competition and CCW.  That mentality has really taken hold of the handgun market and I find it exceeding boring.

Bottom line.  I'm not going to convince you that .357 Magnum is the be all, end all.  I think it is a great cartridge.  But in revolvers, life begins as .44.  If you want weird stuff, go get a broomhandle, luger, Bergmann, and a Colt 1902 and forget about Webleys and MASs.

Just so we are cool with everyone, here is my card to the .357 Magnum club.

And for those wondering, Marshall & Sanow & their "one shot stop" have been thoroughly debunked.  They got caught making up data.

You say the revolver is dead as a duty gun, but I just saw a Kansas state trooper carrying one just last year.  He was excited to be moving up to the 8 shot S&W soon.  His two other bike buddies both had semi-autos.

For sure to some degree.  But the more I look at 357 Mag the more I realize I have no use for it.  Not that it can't be used but that I have better cartridges for anything I would use a revolver for.



I believe I said that I was comparing factory 357 Mag offerings to 9mm.  That is not Apple to Oranges that is simple comparing factory loads offered and in such context over the bullet weights I reference 357 just is not that much more of a gun.  I understand and agree that you can load 357 a lot hotter and more powerful than 9mm.  My current 357 load is 158 XTP doing ~1400fps and that is still safely within published data, not hot-rod'ing it.  But loaded that hot it is abusive on my hearing in a hunting context.  My 610 puts out similar muzzle energy and does it with a heavier bullet and less muzzle blast.



Got to disagree with you here.  With a good holster and I have carried an N-frame as a secondary hunting revolver the last several years.  Both in belt and chest rigs.  Most of the time it was my S&W 610 6.5 inch barrel and a few times my S&W 627 or 625 both 5-inch.  I hope to make it a 629 5-inch soon if and when I find a deal.  



The whole is not greater than the parts.  The 357 is a compromise caliber now.  I don't disagree that 357 mag can be an all purpose handgun but from my point of view that also means it is a jack-of-all-trades and master of none.  It has been replace as the king of defensive calibers by the 9mm 's capacity in duty/full size guns and 38 Special and 380 ACP in the ultra light weight pocket carry.  It has no home in the competitive practical shooting community.  As a hunting revolver it is perfectly acceptable but the 10mm Auto,  41 and 44 mag and even the old 45 Colt souped up work better.  It has become the mini van of revolver calibers...  Perfectly functional but no soul.

I do but they both start with a four, 44 Mag and 410 bore shotgun.

So that is a beautiful revolver and at the same time {snore...}   Sorry I fell asleep there...    So yes part of it is I find modern double action, square butt, polished and blued revolves almost as boring as Glocks, almost.  But I also find the 357 Magnum cartridge a bit boring too.  By the time you get it cranked up ballistics-wise (and I will admit it is a pretty capable cartridge for its caliber), you have a lot of muzzle blast and noise compared to having just stepped up in caliber.

For me there is more to revolvers than CCW and competition.  I like hunting with them and I like old revolvers and the cartridges they where chambered in to shoot and collect.  But I spend the most cash and time on competition.  Nothing is better than showing up at a USPSA match and seeing how many of the bottom feeders I can beat with my round gun.

I agree that revolver get interesting at bore size goes up.  Even in competition I would rather shoot my 625 than my 627 but to be competitive at the big matches you got to be shooting the 8-shooter.  I still shoot the 625 as club matches.

44 Mag is going to be my next revolver.  Like I said earlier I have a lever gun in 44 Mag and love it.  I need the 629 to compliment it.

And sorry to say old semi autos don't have much draw for me.  The Webley's on the other hand are some of the most soulful revolvers ever made.

My NIB (at least until I shot it) Webley Mark IV.  I will own a Mark VI one of these days.
Notice those are a correct as I could make 38/200 MkI ammunition.  200gr Hemispherical nose lead bullet going a blister 600fps.

I don't understand the appeal of the Webley, but I'm glad that someone out there does.  For the record, my so called modern Smith was made in 1936, your Webley was made in 1982...but yeah I got it.  

The Webley's lines, the top break action , the short fat cartridges, the smoke and heavy slow moving bullets.

How's this for an old revolver that is also chamber in a short cartridge.

Iver Johnson Safety Automatic (second version) mfg. 1906.  Still shoot it, 38S&W.  I am pretty sure this is the oldest one in my collection.

.357 is obsolete, but still EFFECTIVE.

Simple as that.