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Posted: 3/30/2023 8:13:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Honestly for the most part standard “range” or training ammo in the traditional bullet weights you listed, from all the major manufacturers are very close in balllistics. Not enough difference between them to matter in any way at all.
I have won shooting matches firing stages of fire with ammo from no less than 4 different manufacturers in my magazine. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 8:25:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: From what I know I would say: .45: 230gr FMJ 9mm: 115gr FMJ .380: 95gr FMJ Yep, for the most part: .45 ACP - 230gr FMJ-RN at about 850 fps from a 5" barrel .380 ACP - 95gr FMJ-RN at about 900 fps from a 3" barrel 9mm - 115gr FMJ-RN at about 1150-1200 fps from a 4.5" barrel (however 124gr bullets are also extremely common for 9mm, and probably more common in other places/times) |
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Posted: 4/5/2023 11:34:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, for the most part: .45 ACP - 230gr FMJ-RN at about 850 fps from a 5" barrel .380 ACP - 95gr FMJ-RN at about 900 fps from a 3" barrel 9mm - 115gr FMJ-RN at about 1150-1200 fps from a 4.5" barrel (however 124gr bullets are also extremely common for 9mm, and probably more common in other places/times) Thanks. Is there anything that specifically defines "standard" and how is that measured? Just curious |
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Posted: 4/6/2023 6:47:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks. Is there anything that specifically defines "standard" and how is that measured? Just curious Not really. These "standard" loads are just the most common. The only real standard is SAAMI (or CIP) specs, which dictate neither bullet weight nor velocity. |
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Posted: 4/6/2023 9:07:29 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. These "standard" loads are just the most common. The only real standard is SAAMI (or CIP) specs, which dictate neither bullet weight nor velocity. Thanks. Maybe a more complicated followup question, but per your specs above, which loads would be "lighter" or least stressful on the guns? |
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Posted: 4/6/2023 9:27:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Unless you're dealing with some old and particularly delicate firearm, there's really nothing to worry about. Any regular old ball ammo you find on the shelf is going to be fine, I don't think you're going to see any difference in wear and tear from one brand or load to the next. Some defensive loads are "+P" or "+P+" (meaning higher-than-standard pressure, in order to gain higher velocity) but that's a different animal, not the "basic" ammo you're asking about.
Higher grain-weight bullets are not "more powerful" or "harder on the gun" if that's what you're curious about. |
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Posted: 4/6/2023 8:57:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Chris is correct. Unless there is a fundamental defect in your gun, the typical “ standard” loads noted above shot regularly, your gun will last pretty much forever.
I do shoot reduced light loads in some of my vintage guns. When trying to get the lightest load that reliably runs your gun ( theoretically minimizing wear) the only way to go is to handload yourself. Honestly pressure is what generates wear in a sense in guns. Especially in semi autos, where a certain threshold of pressure is needed for reliable function, most not plus p loads are in a pretty narrow pressure range. Running a load that generates say 34000 psi isn’t going to make an appreciable difference in wear compared to say a load running 31000 psi. Sure if you looked at two guns running the different pressure levels, maybe some day ( at a rate of 500 rounds a month we are talking a decade or more) it might cause one gun to wear a little more than the other but any difference would be likely inconsequential. |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 11:03:43 AM EDT
[#8]
OP, do not get concerned about the bullet weight. It has NOTHING to do with "power". I've met people who assumed that 147 grain loads were more powerful than 115gr. It can be just the opposite sometimes.
Lately, I have found S&B 115FMJ and Geco 115 FMJ to be spicy and full powered while Fed. 147FMJ was mild and soft shooting. The same can be true for 45ACP also. Speer Lawman 230gr has been mild and soft shooting while Blazer aluminum 230gr FMJ was quite "hot" and full power. For the 380, the hotter the better for reliability in my opinion but it will be hard to find "hot" 380 regardless of the bullet weight. |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 6:46:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP, do not get concerned about the bullet weight. It has NOTHING to do with "power". I've met people who assumed that 147 grain loads were more powerful than 115gr. It can be just the opposite sometimes. Lately, I have found S&B 115FMJ and Geco 115 FMJ to be spicy and full powered while Fed. 147FMJ was mild and soft shooting. The same can be true for 45ACP also. Speer Lawman 230gr has been mild and soft shooting while Blazer aluminum 230gr FMJ was quite "hot" and full power. For the 380, the hotter the better for reliability in my opinion but it will be hard to find "hot" 380 regardless of the bullet weight. Thanks! Some of these are newer calibers for me so I'm basically just looking for baseline to start with. Winchester white box is my go to, especially for target practice, so was just trying to gather some info. I guess what the military considers "standard" for at least 9mm and 45acp might be a good starting point |
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Posted: 4/7/2023 9:39:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks! Some of these are newer calibers for me so I'm basically just looking for baseline to start with. Winchester white box is my go to, especially for target practice, so was just trying to gather some info. I guess what the military considers "standard" for at least 9mm and 45acp might be a good starting point Mil. standard for 9mm used to be the 124gr FMJ (M882?) now changed to a 115 with a flat tip. Both are on the warm side of 9mm and close to +P, which is fine but you stated you wanted something easy on the guns. Mil. Spec loads are more expensive also but they are better quality imho than plain plinking ammo. I think the best way is to get a good variety and try them. Some loads your guns wont like and some you wont like. Eventually you will get a good baseline and know what is good for YOU. |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 10:24:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mil. standard for 9mm used to be the 124gr FMJ (M882?) now changed to a 115 with a flat tip. Both are on the warm side of 9mm and close to +P, which is fine but you stated you wanted something easy on the guns. Mil. Spec loads are more expensive also but they are better quality imho than plain plinking ammo. I think the best way is to get a good variety and try them. Some loads your guns wont like and some you wont like. Eventually you will get a good baseline and know what is good for YOU. All things being equal (using Winchester white box as a baseline) would 124gr or 115 grain be "hotter", harder on the gun, etc? It has just always confused me why there isn't a simpler system for how a round is branded vs what it actually does. |
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Posted: 4/11/2023 6:47:47 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All things being equal (using Winchester white box as a baseline) would 124gr or 115 grain be "hotter", harder on the gun, etc? It has just always confused me why there isn't a simpler system for how a round is branded vs what it actually does. Neither. The 124gr is advertised at 1140 fps and 115gr at 1190 fps. Neither are "hot" loads. Unless you see "+P" there will not be a significant difference in one load to the next. And even the difference between +P and normal is very small (10%). Again, bullet weight only tells you bullet weight...not "hotness". There is no ammo you're going to be able to buy on typical store shelves that is going to cause appreciable differences in wear-and-tear on your gun. |
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Posted: 4/11/2023 4:59:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither. The 124gr is advertised at 1140 fps and 115gr at 1190 fps. Neither are "hot" loads. Unless you see "+P" there will not be a significant difference in one load to the next. And even the difference between +P and normal is very small (10%). Again, bullet weight only tells you bullet weight...not "hotness". There is no ammo you're going to be able to buy on typical store shelves that is going to cause appreciable differences in wear-and-tear on your gun. Thanks! That makes sense. |
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Posted: 4/11/2023 7:22:23 PM EDT
[#14]
You nailed it, all other grain weights are foolishness, adopted by newbs and the misinformed.
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Posted: 4/11/2023 8:24:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You nailed it, all other grain weights are foolishness, adopted by newbs and the misinformed. Explain yourself, please. |
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Posted: 4/19/2023 6:03:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All things being equal (using Winchester white box as a baseline) would 124gr or 115 grain be "hotter", harder on the gun, etc? It has just always confused me why there isn't a simpler system for how a round is branded vs what it actually does. There is regular Winchester 124 FMJ and Win. 124 FMJ NATO (M882) with the NATO being a little hotter. Also regular Win. 115 FMJ bulk and the new 115 FMJ TC (the new US Army load) that is quite "hot". But there few hard and fast rules about ammo. The most important thing is that the grain (weight of the bullet/projectile) is meaningless when talking about "hotness" or power. If you are looking for mild-medium loads, try CCI Blazer Brass (or aluminum nowdays). I dont know if Remington even exists now but their 115 FMJ loads were always very mild and decently accurate. Also Magtec (Brazil) 115 and 124 is good medium power ammo. S&B 115 seems like "regular" or full-power ammo to me and very accurate. Federal and American Eagle are very good and can be mild or medium but I've never seen "hot" Federal FMJ ammo except JHP like HST. I personally dont like Winchester FMJ ammo since it seems to have the most dead primers and even the oddly long case that causes a PITA to clear. I would just see what is cheapest and specifically look for Blazer Brass, Magtec, or S&B. |
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Posted: 4/19/2023 6:06:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither. The 124gr is advertised at 1140 fps and 115gr at 1190 fps. Neither are "hot" loads. Unless you see "+P" there will not be a significant difference in one load to the next. And even the difference between +P and normal is very small (10%). Again, bullet weight only tells you bullet weight...not "hotness". There is no ammo you're going to be able to buy on typical store shelves that is going to cause appreciable differences in wear-and-tear on your gun. There is SOOO much variation between manufacturers that it's hard to say 100%. What the manufacturer prints on the box is worthless. There are mild loads out there since I seek them out for certain uses like GSSF matches. And there are regular full-power NATO loads also. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 10:50:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is regular Winchester 124 FMJ and Win. 124 FMJ NATO (M882) with the NATO being a little hotter. Also regular Win. 115 FMJ bulk and the new 115 FMJ TC (the new US Army load) that is quite "hot". But there few hard and fast rules about ammo. The most important thing is that the grain (weight of the bullet/projectile) is meaningless when talking about "hotness" or power. If you are looking for mild-medium loads, try CCI Blazer Brass (or aluminum nowdays). I dont know if Remington even exists now but their 115 FMJ loads were always very mild and decently accurate. Also Magtec (Brazil) 115 and 124 is good medium power ammo. S&B 115 seems like "regular" or full-power ammo to me and very accurate. Federal and American Eagle are very good and can be mild or medium but I've never seen "hot" Federal FMJ ammo except JHP like HST. I personally dont like Winchester FMJ ammo since it seems to have the most dead primers and even the oddly long case that causes a PITA to clear. I would just see what is cheapest and specifically look for Blazer Brass, Magtec, or S&B. Realizing I missed new posts on this thread. I've never heard of anyone having issues with Winchester white box ammo, especially dead primers or failures. It's also pretty much all I've ever shot and I've never had a failure. It seems to always be the most recommended go-to reliable target ammo (although not the cheapest, but I'm not trying to get the cheapest) Can anyone else confirm any issues with Winchester white box fmj? |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 11:27:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Any factory ammo can have issues. Over the years I've had:
Squib load with Remington Green Box .45 acp. No powder. Primers backwards several times in Win factory ammo in .38 Spec and 9mm. No primer mix in Win .38 Special match wadcutters. Bullet seated backwards Win 9mm and Fed .40 S&W. Crushed case with Win 9mm. To answer your specific question I believe the crushed case was Win white box. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 6:40:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any factory ammo can have issues. Over the years I've had: Squib load with Remington Green Box .45 acp. No powder. Primers backwards several times in Win factory ammo in .38 Spec and 9mm. No primer mix in Win .38 Special match wadcutters. Bullet seated backwards Win 9mm and Fed .40 S&W. Crushed case with Win 9mm. To answer your specific question I believe the crushed case was Win white box. By FAR, the most problems that I have had and have seen are with Winchester FMJ loads. Dead primers and extra-long case. All in 9mm. Although Win. Steel may be even worse but I stopped buying after 2 boxes. Win. LE Ranger ammo I still like though. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 9:10:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Realizing I missed new posts on this thread. I've never heard of anyone having issues with Winchester white box ammo, especially dead primers or failures. It's also pretty much all I've ever shot and I've never had a failure. It seems to always be the most recommended go-to reliable target ammo (although not the cheapest, but I'm not trying to get the cheapest) Can anyone else confirm any issues with Winchester white box fmj? Winchester's cheaper loadings are definitely some of the lowest-quality US-made ammo available. I'd actually shoot Russian steel-cased ammo over SOME of the cheaper Winchester offerings. Some boxes are great and some are terrible. I've bought Winchester 9mm ammo so hilariously over-crimped that the bullets measured .338". There's no way that they'd grab the rifling to stabilize but I wouldn't know anyway because they couldn't even be fired because they slid into the rifling (couldn't headspace). Similar situation in .25 ACP as well. I've seen sideway primers, upside-down primers as well. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 9:57:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Interesting. Reading reviews on any big ammo site, I've never seen anyone mention any of the above issues with white box, and I've personally never had a single failure in any gun I've ever shot it with (and it's what I have shot exclusively for 45acp, .380 and 9mm for many years)
What would you guys recommend for good USA all around ball/FMJ ammo? Mainly for the calibers mentioned (45acp, .380 and 9mm) Thanks |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 11:28:28 AM EDT
[#23]
Of USA brands I'd look at CCI's products first and Federal's second.
Don't get the wrong impression...most of us have shot oodles of WWB ammo and the vast majority is going to be fine. |
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