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Posted: 2/15/2020 10:46:27 AM EDT
[#1]
There are some very good choices in 147... Winchester Ranger, Gold dots, etc... good penetration and good expansion
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Posted: 2/15/2020 11:01:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Running 147 HST2 version here... All good.
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Posted: 2/15/2020 11:03:19 AM EDT
[#3]
I personally like the 124 grain ammo over 147 grain. I settled on 124 grain Federal HST for my carry ammo. For practice ammo 123 grain Federal American Eagle or other 123-125 grain FMJ ammo will work for training ammo. I still shoot a lot of 115 grain FMJ for practice which hits close enough for me on steel plates to 50 yards.
If concerned with penetrating barriers the difference in penetration between two bullets of the same caliber is Energy and Bullet construction. If a 124 grain bullet has more foot pounds of energy than a 147 grain bullet the 124 grain bullet of the same design will penetrate deeper. Back in the 90’s after the FBI switched to 147 grain JHP we conducted test and our W-W115 grain JHP +P+ penetrated barriers better than the 147 W-W JHP. The 147 grain JHP tended to penetrate deeper in gel than the 115 grain JHP but my Agency had very good street performance out of the 115 grain JHP ammo. Change the construction of the bullet from cup & core to bonded core/jacket or brass/monolithic bullet and you’ll see differences in barrier penetration. Honestly I can live with whatever my Agency issued. In the end I think more emphasis should be placed on situational awareness/ tactics plus putting bullets in the right place. Shot placement usually makes more difference than the particular bullet IMHO. |
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Posted: 2/15/2020 11:05:54 AM EDT
[#4]
I prefer the 124+P load in both HST and Gold Dot
The 147 isn't bad though.... |
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Posted: 2/15/2020 11:10:27 AM EDT
[#5]
I prefer the 124g HSTs in my short barrel CC pistols, and 147g HSTs in my 4"+ barrels.
I have no empirical reasons as to why, though. |
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Posted: 2/15/2020 11:17:20 AM EDT
[#6]
I prefer 147 HST compared to the 124. Noticable - barely, but noticable - difference (to me and other shooters I've been with during testing) in felt recoil. Gel tests - with barriers - have yielded pretty similar results between the two at different demos I've attended, and the very slight difference in perceived recoil is enough to make me pick 147 over 124 - especially when they are priced the same in bulk.
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Posted: 2/15/2020 12:34:32 PM EDT
[#7]
147 HST is arguably one of the best self defense loads out there. There are others such as Gold Dot.
I would suggest you run at least a couple hundred rounds of your new ammo through each self defense gun to be sure you do not experience a stoppage before depending on it in a self defense scenario. |
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Posted: 2/15/2020 2:25:05 PM EDT
[#8]
I may end up holding off on cycling out my current carry ammo, and buy a half case of the 147. This way I can test it in my guns, and see how they like it.
My current ammo is 124gr standard pressure gold dot. I also use golden saber and xtp, both standard pressure 124gr. All my 9mm guns have 4" or longer barrels, besides my glock 26. |
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Posted: 2/15/2020 2:43:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Most of my 9mm carry ammo is the 147 HST (standard and +P versions). Before I settled on it, I tried some and it was very accurate and also smooth shooting (100% reliable with an even, balanced recoil; not too sharp and not too weak). Also all the jello tests show the 147 HST as one of the best.
I also have some 124 HST and 115 Gold Dot for my smallest guns. In the Gold Dot and Winchester Ranger brands, (and almost all others besides the Fed. HST) I think the 147 loads are a little slow and I would opt for their 124 +P loads. I would suggest the OP try a box or two and see how he and his gun like it. |
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Posted: 2/15/2020 10:28:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Depends.
In my EC9s 124gr shoots to the sights how I like it. So thats what I carry. But if all I can get is 147gr it's close enough. But I really don't think it matters all that much. Tje difference in weights comes out to a little little bit heavier than a 22Colibre bullet. |
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Posted: 2/17/2020 1:18:40 PM EDT
[#11]
I carry 9BPLE in my 9mm.....
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Posted: 2/17/2020 3:11:48 PM EDT
[#12]
I think all my 9mm are loaded with 124 +p hst with 1 reload each. Once thats gone im moving on to 147 gold dots.
No real reason other than i got a good deal. I do typically prefer heavier bullets though. I think its my beretta that shoots maybe 2-3" low at 25 yards with 124s but dead on with 147. |
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Posted: 2/20/2020 4:23:41 PM EDT
[#13]
I recently watched a vid of Rob Leatham talking about carry ammo and what’s in his XDs45........ a 3yr old vid..... in his carry piece was 230gr Ball
His quotes to take home and sleep well on was “first off the gun Has To Work”. His next point was “I’m not going to count on a magic bullet doing the work, I am going to count on shot placement doing the work” Pretty simple real life point to live by in bad times..... that hero of the recent church shooting who dropped the guy at good distance with a careful headshot is a Perfect example of this. Ammo he used has had little documentation Make sure Your gun Works with Your ammo 100% and practice hitting tuff shots On Demand!!! How many shooters even put the gun in their weak hand in a range session? Try different positions and challenging targets in your normal session H |
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Posted: 2/21/2020 8:49:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I recently watched a vid of Rob Leatham talking about carry ammo and what’s in his XDs45........ a 3yr old vid..... in his carry piece was 230gr Ball Agree with the quotes posted and your own comments about training. However, Rob is not a ballistics SME, nor has he ever shot another man. I would not look to him for advice on self-defense cartridge selection. I am certain he would do the job with FMJ, but he’s an Olympian among pistol shooters. FBI did us all a great service by releasing their recent work on this topic (leading to the issue of 147gr G2). My own choice is Win Ranger 147gr bonded JHP. Why? It was free :) and replaced Speer Gold Dot. Which was fine... |
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Posted: 2/21/2020 9:40:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rob Leatham absolutely deserves the respect he has earned as a competitive shooter. He is in demand as a consultant on shooting fast and accurately for some high speed folks. Agree with the quotes posted and your own comments about training. However, Rob is not a ballistics SME, nor has he ever shot another man. I would not look to him for advice on self-defense cartridge selection. I am certain he would do the job with FMJ, but he’s an Olympian among pistol shooters. FBI did us all a great service by releasing their recent work on this topic (leading to the issue of 147gr G2). My own choice is Win Ranger 147gr bonded JHP. Why? It was free :) and replaced Speer Gold Dot. Which was fine... I use +P+ 124 grain and have no intention of changing. I no longer am required to carry as part of my profession. I have no dog in this hunt, if I shoot with a 147 I hit what I aim at just like the 124. Many have dropped and stayed down with 115 ball, the 124 and 147 with good projectiles are modern and test better, let's see how they fair in 100 years. |
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Posted: 2/21/2020 10:40:51 AM EDT
[#16]
I'm on the 147 side of things, but would not feel bad with 124 in the gun either.
HST or Gold Dots & that is about as effective as a 9mm round will be. |
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Posted: 2/21/2020 3:21:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Great comments after mine! It’s All Good! I don’t run ball Either!!! The Great One is a Wayne Gretzky at his trade for sure.... I run Speer GD’s across the board caliber wise and see NO reason to change
124gr +P’s in my XDs as I type. Peace H |
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Posted: 2/21/2020 5:31:39 PM EDT
[#18]
124 +p for more reliable expansion.
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Posted: 2/22/2020 10:09:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I recently watched a vid of Rob Leatham talking about carry ammo and what’s in his XDs45........ a 3yr old vid..... in his carry piece was 230gr Ball His quotes to take home and sleep well on was “first off the gun Has To Work”. His next point was “I’m not going to count on a magic bullet doing the work, I am going to count on shot placement doing the work” Pretty simple real life point to live by in bad times..... that hero of the recent church shooting who dropped the guy at good distance with a careful headshot is a Perfect example of this. Ammo he used has had little documentation Make sure Your gun Works with Your ammo 100% and practice hitting tuff shots On Demand!!! How many shooters even put the gun in their weak hand in a range session? Try different positions and challenging targets in your normal session H |
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Posted: 2/23/2020 2:22:34 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great comments after mine! It’s All Good! I don’t run ball Either!!! The Great One is a Wayne Gretzky at his trade for sure.... I run Speer GD’s across the board caliber wise and see NO reason to change 124gr +P’s in my XDs as I type. Peace H Gold Dot is not perfect though....always good to check into load you choose. 9mm 147gr and .40SW 165gr seem to be far from ideal performers...  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/23/2020 9:29:37 AM EDT
[#21]
I loaded up on some police trade in 147g HST.
I like it a lot. It seems easier to shoot follow up shots out of smaller sized carry gun (shield, M&Pc, PPS M2, etc..) for me. No issues so far with function. |
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Posted: 2/23/2020 10:25:59 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gold Dot in 124gr +P is one of their better loads. Great expansion and penetration numbers in most every test you’ll see. It’s one of the top 9mm options in my opinion though I personally prefer HSTs in all calibers. Gold Dot is not perfect though....always good to check into load you choose. 9mm 147gr and .40SW 165gr seem to be far from ideal performers... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/321106/14D728A4-B723-441B-BC24-0EAEEE6CC41F_jpe-1287722.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/321106/3E9E1B34-F114-49DE-96EA-50BC63C7444E_jpe-1287723.JPG |
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Posted: 2/23/2020 10:51:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I loaded up on some police trade in 147g HST. I like it a lot. It seems easier to shoot follow up shots out of smaller sized carry gun (shield, M&Pc, PPS M2, etc..) for me. No issues so far with function. 
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Posted: 2/25/2020 11:27:44 AM EDT
[#24]
No. Stick with the 124 gr. Modern bullets are pretty good at expanding when fired through heavy clothing, but the few failures I've noted tend to be lower velocity stuff. Heavier, slower bullets and shorter barrels are more likely to result in a failure.
ETA: If you're shooting it in a 4"-5" barrel, 147gr is probably good enough. I'd still prefer 124gr. But if you're shooting it from a really short pistol like a Shield, I would definitely avoid the 147gr. |
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Posted: 2/25/2020 11:30:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I recently watched a vid of Rob Leatham talking about carry ammo and what’s in his XDs45........ a 3yr old vid..... in his carry piece was 230gr Ball His quotes to take home and sleep well on was “first off the gun Has To Work”. His next point was “I’m not going to count on a magic bullet doing the work, I am going to count on shot placement doing the work” Pretty simple real life point to live by in bad times..... that hero of the recent church shooting who dropped the guy at good distance with a careful headshot is a Perfect example of this. Ammo he used has had little documentation Make sure Your gun Works with Your ammo 100% and practice hitting tuff shots On Demand!!! How many shooters even put the gun in their weak hand in a range session? Try different positions and challenging targets in your normal session H |
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Posted: 2/25/2020 3:44:48 PM EDT
[#26]
I prefer the 124 gr. +P GD or HST personally. I also like to be able to load/shoot tons of 124 gr. plated/coated for practice that is cheaper than shooting 147's.
Having said that, I have a handload that pushes a 147 gr. GD or HST to almost 1200 FPS in my CZ Scorpion. That's nothing to sneeze at. |
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Posted: 2/25/2020 8:00:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rob Leatham absolutely deserves the respect he has earned as a competitive shooter. He is in demand as a consultant on shooting fast and accurately for some high speed folks. Agree with the quotes posted and your own comments about training. However, Rob is not a ballistics SME, nor has he ever shot another man. I would not look to him for advice on self-defense cartridge selection. I am certain he would do the job with FMJ, but he’s an Olympian among pistol shooters. FBI did us all a great service by releasing their recent work on this topic (leading to the issue of 147gr G2). My own choice is Win Ranger 147gr bonded JHP. Why? It was free :) and replaced Speer Gold Dot. Which was fine... |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 8:36:14 AM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 2/26/2020 8:47:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Anything that functions in your Gun, and that you can keep inside the 8-ring at 8 feet.
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Posted: 2/26/2020 7:57:55 PM EDT
[#30]
According to Speer's own data, ALL the 9mm Gold Dot fail min penetration except the 147g LINK.
Years ago I decided I would stock up on Gold Dot since it was a big "brand name" and easy to remember. The data tables really made me move toward HST. Doc Roberts had pretty much always said heaviest for caliber (which is the main question from the OP). The Lucky Gunner data (I think was linked above) is interesting. There is a TON of data on penetration/expansion. I think barrel length may be a significant factor (the Lucky Gunner was short barrel and results differed from a lot of factory/Doc Roberts data that I had seen). I pretty much settled on HST, 147g for 9mm, 180g .40 and 230g for .45. HST was pretty clearly the best, but the Lucky Gunner data shows it to be pretty darn good but not the best (I think the barrel length thing, plus not sure how controlled their gel etc is compared to factory or Doc Roberts data). Find one that meets min penetration in YOUR barrel length and has good expansion then make sure it functions. PS: I live in Florida, so only care about bare gel. Up North in winter the Ranger T I believe was best in heavy clothing...…. Lot of data to think about 
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Posted: 2/27/2020 12:52:06 AM EDT
[#31]
Lucky Gunner uses clear gel if I remember right. That's an issue with their testing imo.
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Posted: 2/27/2020 3:10:39 PM EDT
[#32]
I tend to go on the heavy side with my handgun rounds and light on the rifle side. Just a personal preference thing.
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Posted: 3/2/2020 2:44:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to Speer's own data, ALL the 9mm Gold Dot fail min penetration except the 147g LINK. That said, I'm no brand loyalist. My personal house gun (suppressed M&P) and a Colt Govt. Model I carry on occasion are loaded with 147gr and 230gr HST respectively. 
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Posted: 3/4/2020 7:28:54 AM EDT
[#34]
One thing to consider before you order that case ( or half case) of 147, is that generally, the heavier, slower load will impact higher. The pistol has more time to rise with the slower load.
I had settled on 124 grain as having more weight than 115 grain, but closer to the same velocity. Much more velocity than a 147 grain. One of my 9's is a 5 inch, but the other is a 3 inch Shield. I decided to try a box of 147's, but found they impact a good 5 inches higher at 25 yards. My 124 grain Gold Dots and HST's hit dead on, and if I have to shoot 115 for practice, they are pretty close to the 124. Glad I didn't buy a shit ton of the 147 loads. My .45 Shield is the same with 230 grain loads, a good 4-5 inches high. 200 grain Gold dots hit right on, so the 200 grain has become my carry load in the .45. |
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Posted: 3/7/2020 6:51:52 AM EDT
[#35]
You could split the differance.
The FBI is using Hornady 135 gr. Critical Duty in their gun for carry. Also try Lucky Gunner. Great prices on ammo, fast shipping. They also have a area where they actually show tests for differant brands of ammo. |
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Posted: 3/9/2020 1:48:01 PM EDT
[#36]
What's with HST +P 147 being out of stock everywhere?
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Posted: 3/9/2020 2:04:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's with HST +P 147 being out of stock everywhere? With that said, I think there's a good argument to be made that we're debating marginal gains here. Pick a proven bullet and carry it with confidence. I'm comfortable with any loading of gold dot, HST, critical defense, etc. |
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Posted: 3/12/2020 2:34:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Federal makes a 150gr "Micro" version of the HST that is optimized for subcompact 9mm pistols.
My opinion is that reliable cycling is the #1 most important characteristic of any defensive ammo. It's more important than terminal effectiveness or accuracy. So if the engineers at Federal say the 150gr Micro HST is optimized for reliable cycling in subcompact pistols, I'll take their word for it. It's what I carry with my M&P Shield. |
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Posted: 3/16/2020 2:58:57 PM EDT
[#39]
I do like 147gr HST when I can find them.
But, I carry Hydra Shok all the time and practice with them. (now that components are/were available) |
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Posted: 3/20/2020 3:00:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it was discontinued, which is unfortunate. A heavy projectile with some added juice seems like a good fit for subcompacts. I've never bothered with 147gr since it's crawling out of the super short barrels many of us are using for carry purposes. With that said, I think there's a good argument to be made that we're debating marginal gains here. Pick a proven bullet and carry it with confidence. I'm comfortable with any loading of gold dot, HST, critical defense, etc. It was, I read the performance was deemed to similar to waste money on two different loads. Oh well, I'm still sitting on 1200 of the 147 +p. Enough carry ammo to last a lifetime. |
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Posted: 3/20/2020 3:50:15 PM EDT
[#41]
In 9mm, I'm currently using 124 +P GD, but replacing it with 147 HST. For .40 I'm using 180 HST.
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