anyone welded instead of rivited or screwed?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - anyone welded instead of rivited or screwed?

Posted: 8/27/2005 12:56:51 PM EDT

Doing my first AK build and am curious on my options. I have good access to welders, but no riviting equipment. If anyone has welded one up any info would be great.

Posted: 8/27/2005 1:22:25 PM EDT

[#1]

I once saw a Hess welded AK. It looked like, crap. I would think that a tig welder and a pro do the job so it would look nice.

Get it to hot and you could blow right through the sheet metal.

Posted: 8/27/2005 10:20:27 PM EDT

[#2]

Yes, I've welded MANY, MANY AKs! AC arc welder, E7018 rod (as small as you can get it). E7018 is what is used to lay down x-ray quality welds on newclear reacters. I like to use screws on the two holes by the mag well on front trunnion, just helps allign every thing. So far I've bumped hundreds of rounds thru all of mine with out a failer. I can tell you just about anything you want to know about alternate ways of building an AK. WECSOG all the way!

Posted: 8/28/2005 3:51:49 AM EDT

[#3]

Real estate salesman, I want to thank you for your post on flat bending without a press. You inspired me to go ahead and try to build my own. I built a jig similar to your's and it worked better than I expected. If it hadn't been for your post I would never had tried to build one 'cause the tooling is too expensive to buy to build one or two. Thanks again.

Posted: 8/28/2005 4:08:42 AM EDT

[#4]

Here is one of my latest weld builds.

Posted: 8/28/2005 9:02:11 AM EDT

[#5]

VA-Gunnut, that looks great...perfect!

Quoted:
Real estate salesman, I want to thank you for your post on flat bending without a press. You inspired me to go ahead and try to build my own. I built a jig similar to your's and it worked better than I expected. If it hadn't been for your post I would never had tried to build one 'cause the tooling is too expensive to buy to build one or two. Thanks again.

You're welcome. Not many people posted in that thread, like 1 or 2. I thaught no one was intersted, I'm glad to hear that I helped some one.

Posted: 8/28/2005 4:46:15 PM EDT

[#6]

I have desided my next build or maybe the rest of my kits, if it turns out ok, will be partialy welded.Im going to screw all the holes except the top 4 front trunun holes ,which i will weld.The front top trunun holes are the only ones that give me problems with my screw builds.

Posted: 8/28/2005 6:28:35 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I have desided my next build or maybe the rest of my kits, if it turns out ok, will be partialy welded.Im going to screw all the holes except the top 4 front trunun holes ,which i will weld.The front top trunun holes are the only ones that give me problems with my screw builds.

That's how/why I started welding, it was so easy I started doing all welds and no screw/rivets.

Posted: 8/29/2005 7:08:32 AM EDT

[#8]

do you just weld up the holes you would normally rivet or do you run another bead somewhere else for reenforcement. Thanks for the replies and help.

Posted: 8/29/2005 8:14:23 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
do you just weld up the holes you would normally rivet or do you run another bead somewhere else for reenforcement. Thanks for the replies and help.

Yea, I just zap it right through the rivet hole in the receiver, takes maybe 2 seconds, hold it any longer and the receicer 'll start to melt back, if that happens just let it cool then fix it with another quick weld.

Posted: 8/29/2005 8:33:25 AM EDT

[#10]

here is my first build, a welded amd-65.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/oldolds442/amd3.jpg

Posted: 8/29/2005 11:16:57 AM EDT

[#11]

If you're starting with a kit that has not had the rivets drilled, you can save a lot of time and work.

I only grind the rivets flush to the receiver stub so that you can pry it off LEAVING THE STUB OF THE RIVETS.

Then I just dremel the holes in the new receiver to fit the stubs and TIG the rivet stubs to the receiver.
Same thing with the cross bushing/sleeve.
I drill holes for the rails (4 per side) and plug weld.

This way I don't have to drill rivets or pull barrels and you end up with a smooth sided rifle.

Posted: 8/29/2005 4:33:28 PM EDT

[#12]

I am "green" so bear with me here, reading all I can while I wait for my kits and build my parkerizing setup. I have a Lincon MIG 150 with Stargas.. I am not an expert welder but I can do a bit here and there, I also have a grinder and dremel so if it looks like poop I can make it look better.

In the photo above where are the welds ? Those small little dimples that look like the size of drift pins ?
If so that is some really really nice welding!

Rich

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:02:57 PM EDT

[#13]

We have done 2 builds with wire welds and both came apart in less than 200 rds. Both were welded thru the rivet holes and even had holes drilled deeper to accomadate more weld. Was welded by a very experienced welder not a shade tree mechanic. One was a "flat-side" the other we even built op "heads" to look like rivets and both failed. Would NOT recommend this method.

Yes that's welds.....NOT RIVETS!!

Posted: 8/30/2005 4:12:33 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
VA-Gunnut, that looks great...perfect!
Quoted:
Real estate salesman, I want to thank you for your post on flat bending without a press. You inspired me to go ahead and try to build my own. I built a jig similar to your's and it worked better than I expected. If it hadn't been for your post I would never had tried to build one 'cause the tooling is too expensive to buy to build one or two. Thanks again.

You're welcome. Not many people posted in that thread, like 1 or 2. I thaught no one was intersted, I'm glad to hear that I helped some one.

The thread was gone by the time I actually got the flats bent and I found out that I could do it. Then I didn't see a post from you until recently.

Posted: 8/30/2005 6:41:45 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
We have done 2 builds with wire welds and both came apart in less than 200 rds. Both were welded thru the rivet holes and even had holes drilled deeper to accomadate more weld. Was welded by a very experienced welder not a shade tree mechanic. One was a "flat-side" the other we even built op "heads" to look like rivets and both failed. Would NOT recommend this method.

While I do not doubt your experience, I can say that I have over a thousand rounds through my welded AK without signs of stress. However, I left the rivet shafts in place and merely welded them to the receiver. That way, the shear forces are still applied to rivets.

Posted: 8/30/2005 10:26:57 AM EDT

[#16]

McKink,Which welds had failed?

Other Chris, did you make the reciever holes a little bigger than the rivit shafts or were they pretty
close to the size?

I guess the way i will do it is screw everything then weld the top 4 front trunun holes leaving the rivit shafts flush with the reciever as The other Chris did,

Posted: 8/30/2005 1:02:12 PM EDT

[#17]

It is imparitive that you use the right filler rod/wire. I tryed useing E6013 on my rails once and it cracked as the weld hardened. When welding 4130 chromemolly steel, if it is a bad weld it will crack in seconds. If you had x-rayed those welds you likely would have seen the impuritys in the weld (look like bubbles). 4130 has a course grain structure, if it gets any impuritys in the molten, like slag inclusion, it gets in the grain and causes cracking. If a guy just runs a bead with what ever mild steel wire he had in his MIG, then it most likely will fall apart.

Posted: 8/30/2005 7:39:24 PM EDT

[#18]

I tapped my trunnion and used red locktite to keep them in. About 1000 rounds so far with no problems.

Posted: 8/30/2005 9:34:33 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I tapped my trunnion and used red locktite to keep them in. About 1000 rounds so far with no problems.

You meen you lock tited the screws in, right? Or you meen you "glued" the trunnions in?

Posted: 8/31/2005 7:20:26 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Other Chris, did you make the reciever holes a little bigger than the rivit shafts or were they pretty
close to the size?

They were whatever it took to get them to fit. Some holes were really close but a couple were oblong with a gap. They were all TIG'd at about 45amps. To be honest, I don't remember what I used for wire because I just grabbed what was on the table.

Good luck,

Posted: 8/31/2005 8:26:33 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
We have done 2 builds with wire welds and both came apart in less than 200 rds. Both were welded thru the rivet holes and even had holes drilled deeper to accomadate more weld. Was welded by a very experienced welder not a shade tree mechanic. One was a "flat-side" the other we even built op "heads" to look like rivets and both failed. Would NOT recommend this method.

While I do not doubt your experience, I can say that I have over a thousand rounds through my welded AK without signs of stress. However, I left the rivet shafts in place and merely welded them to the receiver. That way, the shear forces are still applied to rivets.

Yeah that is what he did also.
It was the rear trunion that came loose on one and the front on the other.

Posted: 8/31/2005 4:27:16 PM EDT

[#22]

Have over 3k thru a 5.45 MIG welded with fluxcore. Still running good.

Posted: 8/31/2005 5:02:37 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I tapped my trunnion and used red locktite to keep them in. About 1000 rounds so far with no problems.

You meen you lock tited the screws in, right? Or you meen you "glued" the trunnions in?

Loctited the screws in

Posted: 9/1/2005 1:26:12 PM EDT

[#24]

I have welded a few. Here is a Yugo underfolder and a Russian underfolder (from a milled kit). They have a few hundred rounds each thru them without any problems so far (crossed fingers).

Posted: 9/1/2005 8:42:11 PM EDT

[#25]

I tried flux core mig, and drilled a hole for the weld to go inside the trunion, well, a few hundred rounds (bump fire) and it was comiing apart. Good thing I used a rivet on the lower two front trunion holes ( by the mag well), otherwise it may have fallen apart in my hands. I took it apart and found that the weld did not go into the holes, in fact, even when you make the holes BIG it will not drip down in there. leave the rivet in, for goodness sake, if you are going to sin.. I mean weld...

Maybe heating it up with a gas torch before using the wire feed on it? just a thought.

and maybe anneal it afterwards too. (heat it to blue and quench) so there are no stress points?

Posted: 9/3/2005 12:18:56 AM EDT

[#26]

I had my current build TIG welded after busting a tap in the trunnion. I'll never be busting a tap again because it finally convinved me to tool up for rivets.

I've only put 21 rounds through it and so far there are no signs of problems. I used a receiver that was pre-drilled for trunnion holes so I had him weld there and added two extra holes to virgin spots on both the front and rear trunnions.