I know Insight Technologies will not sell us AN/PAQ4's or AN/PEQ2's. Is the manufacturer of the Vital 2 going to make them available to civilians? I've seen one for sale on Ebay, but it was alittle too pricey. The supply of used AN/PAQ4's seems to have dried up completely. I used to own a complete AN/PAQ4C but made the mistake of selling it. Now of coarse, I'm thinking about getting back into NV again.  

How much was the VITAL 2 on Ebay for?  THey sell for $2500.  You wont find it cheaper.  Everyone pays that.

I can't remember exactly, but I remember around $2500-$2800. The one on Ebay was used also, but looked new. Who sells the Vital 2?

No, they don't...if you do some diddling here and there you can pay the .gov price of 550 bucks.

ETA: no, I'm not gonna tell you how..if you can figure it out on your own, more power to ya.

VA:

This issue is not a unilateral restriction imposed by the mfgs. - they are a restricted item. FDA regulates them, as they do a number of other items you wouldnt have any interest in.

Its not a prohibition against weapon sights per se - FDA stringently enforces use and sales of certain classes of lasers. Theres plenty of info on the web regarding FDA policies. Basically FDA compels companies to forgo public sales.

Luck
Alac

They are not restricted were I live.

VA:

Local/State laws proscribing ownership is not the operative issue. Possesion may be OK - at least FDA has not, and probably doesnt have any reason to interefere with private ownership in this case. But they do regulate manufacture (sales) of IRLD/I - as an "approved device", as they do with medical lasers, VLD, and more broadly, prescription drugs, etc.

If your local pharmacist decided to set up shop offering Viagra without a script, it would place the pharmicist in jeopardy, not so much the purchaser. If they caught you in the store knowing you just bought some, would they allow you to leave with your purchase? Doubtful - then again FDA doesnt have any real enforcement arm. We have a similar situation regarding IRLD/I.

I am certain Vital, Insight Technologies and others would love sell you a laser - but they cant. They must have FDA approval to market their device - and that includes FDA restrictions. Doesnt mean there is not the opportunity to get one.

Dont feel singled out, this whole laser issue is an ongoing concern in the medical community - FDA/Mfgs have futzed things up there as well. If you want the straight shit, IM me I'll get you the contact info for the FDA compliance office and some names.

Luck
Alac

Alacrity, all I was saying is that you have to check your local laws concerning Infared Lasers. I checked into this when I lived in Florida and my second hand AN/PAQ4C was perfectly legal. I know about the FDA's restrictions, but that does not stop the sale of "second hand" units.

Your original post indicated Mfgs had the option to sell to the general public. Clarifying that point. Since you're aware of the FDA requirements, what was your thought on the Vital 2 - some angle I havent considered?

Absolutely right about local laws - as Im sure you're aware with radar detectors.

Luck
Alac

what about the swiss made Oerlikon Contraves LLM01? Does anyone know a price?

Interesting info regarding the FDA and the lasers.  Here's my question, though: since when have lasers of any sort, much less IR lasers, been either a food or a drug?  I'm not sure I understand how the FDA has the authority to limit their marketing and sale.

The FDA is the regulating body for Lasers of any type in the U.S.

What does FDA has to do with lasers? I would really like one on my SIR...

Besides the obvious FOOD and DRUGS, the FDA regulates Cosmetics, Medical devices and Radiation emitting devices (ie. Lasers)

Its been a few years since I've played with the FDA, but if I remember correctly the FDA is not subject to congressional oversight, it reports and takes direction exclusively from the Executive branch.

They are not fun people to deal with. I'm sure someone from the Pharmaceutical industry can chime in here...

So in other words, they overstep their FOOD and DRUG authority because they say so, and nobody's slapped them on the wrist for it.

Umm...no over stepping of bounds.

Perhaps you would prefer they go by the name: Food, Drug, Cat food, Cosmetics, Cell Phone and Radiation emitting device Agency?


If you are that bent DO something about it rather than whining here.

Just my 2cents.

Alacrity, I just wanted to know if the manufacturer of the Vital 2 offers their products to civialians.

VA:

As I am sure everyone is now aware, unfortunately no. They cant. Its Verboten. Until there is a change at FDA, no Mfg will be able to offer much but visable laser of maximum regulated wattage. No happier than you are VA - but we are stuck with that.

FDA is no worse than any other regulatory agency - they've got great folk to work with, and others that arent. FDA traces its roots to the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906; it was and continues to be authorized by Congress. The debate surrounding the adoption of this measure is amazing - politicians of the time actually doubted they had the [i] constitutional[/i] authority to proscribe drug use.Hard to beleive in todays climate eh?

Eventually the law was passed, on the basis of the two areas the Federal Govt continues to utilize to justify any federal intervention - interstate trade and taxation. Every thing rolled down hill from there (including, in my estimation,  NFA 34/38). If your interested Im sure there is plenty out there on this subject.

But has FDA overstepped its bounds? Absolutely not. They have clear authority, granted by Congress, to regulate many things, including lasers.  Its that simple. Some lasers, especially YAG and glass lasers, pose a serious threat to your MK1 eyeball. Thats why some systems have both training (eye safer) and combat settings. And thats why FDA gets such a hard on about them. FDA gets itchy when the laser is invisable as well. The Vital 1 and 2 are "eyesafe", the 100 aint, but FDA has issues, so this is what we are left with.

BTW, most all laser companies will only sell to authorized entities - hospitals, PD, researchers, etc. Policies vary by Mfg, but ultimately reflect interpretation of FDA regs. The same way Mfgs interpret NFA - you may disagree, but its their ass not yours.

Luck
Alac

Natez:

They give any reason for the policy? Im curious

Ive heard this, and a few other situations, that, IMHO, sure go farther than necessary to comply with regs. Why I made the last two comments in my above post. But like Colt, you get companies that will go well beyond what is necessary (oversized TD and FC pins, sear blocks, malformed carriers). They feel its better safe than sorry. Hopefully it doesnt influence the industry.

Luck
Alac

The "waiver" given to manufacture such items as the PEQ/PAC and others is contingent on those companies selling to MIL/FED entities only.

The "waiver" allows the units to be made WITHOUT a VISABLE light OR AUDIBLE tone that would alert the user that the unit is on and emmiting possibly harmful energy.

Based on current FDA standards/rulings the manufacturers of the above devices COULD sell IR laser aiming devices to mere citizens IF it had the visable light indicator or audible tone alarm.

They choose not to do so,  I SPECULATE that they are encouraged not to do so by both their lawyers AND the Fed gov.  The awarding (or not) of Fed/Mil contracts are quite an incintive I am sure.

Also AFAIK the PAQ4C is considered eyesafe per FDA regs anyways so no need to regulate on the "danger" aspect of losing ones sight.

There are prototype IR LED target designators on the market that will hopefully see the light of day so to speak.

The range of the pinpoint led is much reduced of course but allows engagement of targets withen 100m.

FDA would be hard pressed to justify meddeling with LED lights but I would not be suprised.

As for night vision and related IR devices look for Fed level legislation to regulate them as "subversive devices"

Biggame223

Out

 

Here is an item FS in the USthat has an IR laser pointer.  It is .8mw.

I saw one at the SAR show and the guy demonstrated it with NV. Seems odd that this company is allowed to produce such evil devices when others are prohibited.  And yes this unweildly item has a mount designed for a rifle.

It is not a matter of them being illegal it is a matter of finding a company willing to manufacture the product for the unwashed massess and not just speshul folks.  With speshul folks their is almost no liability but with serfs there may be future litigation issues.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3642271338&category=1291

Biggame223

Out

Ok there unwashed masses check this out

[url]http://scopetica.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=137[/url]

Now the guy is in Israel but I have ordered from him before for Galil parts and he always comes through. Now if this thing would make it through customs? I don't know. But more food for thought.

IPSC_GUY sends

... This is all quite peculiar to me. I just bought a nice 835nM, 10mW output (CR123), IR laser aimer at a gunshow this past weekend from a very reputable and recognizable night vision dealer.

... It was affordable. The laser is crisp and bright and using an AN/PVS7D device.

... The unit is compact and collimates to flood if desired. Has adjustment for windage and elevation. My only minor trick is engineering a robust mount for my fore-rail.

[img]http://www.savvysurvivor.com/_derived/electronics.htm_txt_corsakbanner.gif[/img]

Ahh  a CORSAK..........I hope they have improved since I sold mine.

The W & E and pressure switch were a joke at the time,  if they have added a way to dial it in with a screwdriver than it must be improved.

There is (was) a weaver rail mount available,  I got one for my CORSAK from the website you got that pic at.

You may also want to look into Aimshot and see if their male threaded tail cap/pressure switch fits the CORSAK threads.  They APPEAR similar at a glance.

Biggame223

Out